What spell lists are uber for Chameleons?

[Frosty]

Chameleons can cast from any arcane or divine list, including PRC spell lists. Great. That means I can have Greater Dispel Magic as a third level spell and Haste as a first level spell from Trapsmith, for example. What other spell lists, both divine and arcane, offer good spells for a lower level slot? Is ther eanything good to cherry pick from Blackguard or Assassin? Knight of the Chalice?

[Reel On, Love]

The Adept spell list is a valuable list of spells lower-than-usual level (like Heal as a 5th level spel) and normally-arcane spells as divine (Web, Scorching Ray, Mirror Image, Polymorph...)

[Frosty]

Bard has Otto's Dance as a 6th level spell, which is cool as well. Hmm, but what to do...go into Chameleon right away or wait until Factotum Level 8 for extra standard actions?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I'd say Chameleon, so you can get those higher level spells early enough to make spellcasting viable at higher levels. Save the Factotum for when its abilities are just icing on an already quite delicious cake.

Just my 2cp.

[Lemur]

If we're counting Divine Crusader, you should technically be able to gain access to every domain spell list in your campaign setting.

[Frosty]

What is Divine Crusader?

[Lemur]

PrC in Complete Divine. It gets a single domain as it's class spell list, but it varies for each individual, meaning that potentially every domain spell exists as a class spell.

[FMArthur]

Actually... upon reading the description of the ability (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b), I've realized that, RAW, you can only prepare a set of spells that a single class has access to:


You gain the ability to prepare and cast arcane spells, which may be chosen from the spell list of any arcane spellcasting class.
...
You gain the ability to prepare and cast divine spells, which may be chosen from the spell list of any divine spellcasting class.

Notice that it says "any" instead of "every", that "spell list" and "class" are singular, and it's fairly unambiguous about it. This might seem like splitting hairs, but reading the text, and thinking of how silly it is to be able to prepare every spell under seventh level, I think that's actually how the ability was meant to be interpreted. It even fits with the class's description and theme a little more; you're not a generalist (like the Factotum), you're a specialist whose specialty varies (not speaking in terms of generalist/specialist wizardry. Damn you WotC for making every ordinary word mean something different in the context of D&D!). You can still write down spells of all varieties, but you actually have to choose a specific class's spell list to prepare all of your spells from when you adopt a spellcasting focus.

So you can cast Cure Light Wounds as a Bard spell if you like, but your other arcane spells prepared that day better come from the Bard spell list, too. This is probably old news for a lot of people, and it is still an advantage to be have multiple options availible in your spellbook when you choose a spell list, but I was under the impression for quite a while that I could just prepare and cast any spell I wrote down, freely, so maybe others need to see this as well.

[Cuddly]

Nah, you're just reading it wrong. It pretty plainly says that you may prepare spells from ANY arcane/divine class list. Not any single one; not any one; ANY CLASS LIST.

[Frosty]

By strict reading of the wording, I have to agree with Cuddly here. I dunno what the RAI is though.

[FMArthur]

Spell list. Singular. Spellcasting class. Singular.

[Reel On, Love]

Spell list. Singular. Spellcasting class. Singular.

From any spell list. There is no spell list you can't take it from.
The meaning you're imagining would be conveyed by "any one".

[Eldariel]

Get Factotum 8 if you're running with Fonts of Inspiration. If not, you don't necessarily need to. Factotum 8 is a powerful build on its own right, so while Chameleon starts low, it's good to have your Factotum carry you for the first few levels (when it's probably better to have combat focus up and fight, or UMD).

[Chronos]

I think I'm going to have to go with FMArthur, here, much as I like Chameleons. It doesn't have to say "any one spell list", since "one" is already implied by using the singular. A pity...

[Eldariel]

I think I'm going to have to go with FMArthur, here, much as I like Chameleons. It doesn't have to say "any one spell list", since "one" is already implied by using the singular. A pity...

I think the others are right. If it meant one list, the wording would be something like "Choose an arcane caster class's list. You may prepare spells from that list...".

[Riffington]

From any spell list. There is no spell list you can't take it from.


They would have said any spell lists from any arcane classes if they wanted to you choose from multiple lists.


Not to mention the flavor: "Chameleons who were spellcasters have a clear advantage, because their spell lists are not as limited"... This would be a nonsensical statement under the Frosty interpretation.

[Talic]

Both are technically correct.

I prefer the more permissive interpretation, personally.

It's like, "Welcome to the buffet, Mr. Smith. We have hundreds of items on dozens of trays. Feel free to take your breakfast from any tray."

Now, most people, if told this, would help themselves to different items around the buffet.

A few might think it means they can only take items off one tray. While the statement can be interpreted (correctly) both ways, the more permissive way lends itself more to common thinking.

[Tokiko Mima]

It wouldn't make any sense to say it was 'any one spellcasting list.' The point of Chameleons is that they change their role once a day (or more often at higher levels) and therefore have to be able to adapt their spell lists accordingly. Thus they have the capability to learn almost any spell, since they never specialize. The flavor text in this case could be considered part of the rules.

Additionally, it say may and not must which also indicates more permissiveness than would be normal for the stricter interpretation. It would also be ackward to specifically word it for multiple spell lists, as seen here:


You gain the ability to prepare and cast [arcane/divine] spells, which may be chosen from the spell lists of any of the [arcane/divine] spellcasting classes.

It would also make it impossible for Chameleons to mimic Druids and Clerics, since they would be limited to one spell list or the other. However, I cannot entirely disprove that the 'one spell list only' theory, I can only say it's an illogical interpretation of the Chameleon prestige class based on sentence that can be fairly read two different ways.

[Eldariel]

By the way, the folks at Wizards CO helped me dig up this:
Lowest level versions of spells (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=515321)

I think that's what you were looking for, Frosty. Check page 2 for the newest list, along with some Arcane lists.

[SamTheCleric]

Doesn't Trapsmith from Dungeonscape get Haste and Dispel magic as first level spells?

[Frosty]

Doesn't Trapsmith from Dungeonscape get Haste and Dispel magic as first level spells?

Yes, yes they do. Which is why it rocks.

Eldariel: Thanks.

[Riffington]

It wouldn't make any sense to say it was 'any one spellcasting list.' The point of Chameleons is that they change their role once a day...It would also make it impossible for Chameleons to mimic Druids and Clerics,

Nobody shares this restrictive reading. The lower-cholesterol interpretation is not that upon choosing the Chameleon class you choose a spell list. It is that upon choosing the Arcane Focus on Tuesday you choose a spell list.
Thus, a Chameleon could imitate a Druid on Wednesday and a Cleric on Thursday. He could never imitate a cleric/druid unless his level (or Bluff) were sufficiently high.

[FMArthur]

The problem (as I see it) is that there isn't enough redundancy in the phrasing. I stand by my interpretation of normal, correct English, but because Wizards has developed a habit of repeating things in clearer terms once or twice, giving an example and stating what interpretations are wrong, when someone doesn't do that when writing for them, people tend to gloss over small (but significant) things in the text when they like one interpretation more. I don't think that the writer for the class description was very good (may have been someone new), from this and the confusing description of the changing of the Aptitude Focus itself. But the text is unambiguous. You're just seeing something because you want to see it.


"Welcome to the buffet, Mr. Smith. We have hundreds of items on dozens of trays. Feel free to take your breakfast from any tray."

See, this is a good example that was brought up. The server was not using the right language to describe a selection availible from every tray, but since mistakes like this are so very common, he doesn't know it and the guests don't even notice. You would just grasp the idea he was trying to communicate and dig in, usually without noticing. It's a lot faster than saying "Feel free to compile your breakfast from the various trays. You may select foods from any trays you like", but it's a sacrifice of accuracy and clarity for brevity.