Is Elan the smartest party member or what?

[paladinofshojo]

Hey, even he admits it, no one really expects him to contribute. Certainly not Roy.............Anyway, he gets to travel the world for free, get a share of the loot the other party members work hard to get, and seduce beautiful girls without being obligated to participate or even take responability for his own actions...............Now THAT'S a great con:smallbiggrin:

[Laurentio]

Indeed. But you are wrong on the fact that Roy expects nothing of him. He expects Elan to take half the harassments of Belkar. Worth a share of treasure.

Laurentio

[factotum]

Or what. Next question? :smallsmile:

[someonenonotyou]

of course he is duh he just acting stupid

[Hectonkhyres]

Elan has an amazing talent for taking what is arguably the right path. He has done naught but enjoy himself and, he lives a life free of guilt and sin, and he is destined to receive a happy ending when all has been said and done. He might be the furthest possible thing from being a Magnificent Bastard... but we all should envy him.

[Edea]

Oh, I think he's going to suffer, soon enough. Just not right now.


Don't forget his dad O_O.

[Kish]

Factotum's right. What, definitely.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Another thing, when he retires from adventuring we has an insane amount of material for his stage carrier.

[Yuki Akuma]

What?

No.

Why... why would you even think that?

[Green-Shirt Q]

Well, I doubt that he is the smartest but at the same time, perhaps he is, in a way, highly intelligent.

Please don't laugh at me.

I believe, personally, that there is an intelligence behind him, how he always does the right thing and is completly immune to temtation (no proof, so nobody ask for it. Just an assumtion), I beleive that kind of way of thinking certainly deserves some level of recognition for being intelligent in some way, even if it is not the we usually classifiy intellect.

[Yuki Akuma]

Elan is not immune to temptation. ... At all. He's just Good-aligned, so he doesn't hurt people.

[Cheesegear]

Elan? Immune to temptation? Since when? I just don't think he's ever been tempted that I can recall.

The only time he's really hurt his party members is with Samantha. But, then, he didn't know about Haley at the time. Ignorance is his power source. As I recall, he was doing quite well on his own in that bandit camp until the others came.

[rockdeworld]

No.

:elan: Does this look like the face of a criminal mastermind to you?

[Green-Shirt Q]

Well, I doubt he is TRUELY immune to temtation, but you know what I meant. I meant that if he is tempted by something bad, he will always refuse it (or so I theorize.)

And yes, he has been tempted. In the first fight with the Linear Guild. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0068.html)

[Yuki Akuma]

No.

:elan: Does this look like the face of a criminal mastermind to you?

Well, give it a goatee...

[someonenonotyou]

what does a goatee have to do with your alignment he had a goatee remeber he was still good

[Yuki Akuma]

what does a goatee have to do with your alignment he had a goatee remeber he was still good


...That was a joke.

And a reference to both Star Trek and the comic you read.

:smallsigh:

[Green-Shirt Q]

What's Star Trek?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

What's Star Trek?

Just a show on the TV. Most people have never heard of it... :smallbiggrin:

[Caractacus]

Another thing, when he retires from adventuring we has an insane amount of material for his stage carrier.

So when Elan has his own star turn, he'll have a stage carrier?

That sounds like a tough job - I expect it's always given to the biggest roadie...
:smallwink:

[Mauve Shirt]

What's Star Trek?

Only the show on which my entire internet personality is based!
*forgives and provides with DVDs*

I'm not a trekkie, just surprised.


Just a show on the TV. Most people have never heard of it... :smallbiggrin:

What he said, assuming it was said sarcastically.

[teratorn]

Only the show on which my entire internet personality is based!
*forgives and provides with DVDs*

I'm not a trekkie, just surprised.

From his avatar, and his forum name, I guess he was just playing a "what's this Japan..."

[someonenonotyou]

...That was a joke.

And a reference to both Star Trek and the comic you read.

:smallsigh:

no duh :sigh:

[paladinofshojo]

Anyway, what exactly did he have to contribute towards the party in the first place? In a just world he shouldn't even get a share of treasure since he probably hindered the progress of obtaining it rather then helping........

[Atmbn]

Makes you wonder how smart he would be if he wasnt hit in the head

[Lupy]

Elan is not the smartest, he's just a great con-artist.

No, he just likes being with his friends, to him everything else just comes.

[paladinofshojo]

Elan is not the smartest, he's just a great con-artist.

No, he just likes being with his friends, to him everything else just comes.

So what he outsmarted a bunch of people two of which have an intellect score over 18!!

[An Enemy Spy]

Elan is a flippin moron. He also is ridiculously good looking:haley:"hell yeah!") and charming, so things just kinda go his way. Plus I've always considered him to be the main character

:elan:"They may take our lives, but they will never take OUR FREEDOM! Unless ... unless they kill us and zombify our corpses. Then I guess they'll have taken our lives and our freedom."

[chiasaur11]

Obfuscating stupidity, my friend.
He's just better at it than shojo. Or Belkar.
And, of course, much better at it than V. The guy's just not trying.

[Beholder1995]

What's Star Trek?

I assume you were being sarcastic, due to the fact that you're name and avatar is a reference to Star Trek: The Next Generation.

[xyzchyx]

:elan:"They may take our lives, but they will never take OUR FREEDOM! Unless ... unless they kill us and zombify our corpses. Then I guess they'll have taken our lives and our freedom."Quite untrue anyways, since unintelligent undead do not possess the original spirits of the creatures they once were. The bodies are animated by magic and/or energy from the negative material plane.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

Well, I'm not sure just how smart he is, but he is definitely a lot smarter than people give him credit for. He's a quick thinker and he definitely knows his story tropes.

I'm sure we'll see a lot more of his powers and abilities. After all, he was the one to get everyone (including Lien) safely away from the orcs.

[factotum]

Quite untrue anyways, since unintelligent undead do not possess the original spirits of the creatures they once were. The bodies are animated by magic and/or energy from the negative material plane.

However, while the original body is animated as an unintelligent undead, it is not possible by any means to raise the person from the dead--not even True Resurrection will work in that case. This implies the person's soul is bound in SOME way to prevent it being raised...

[Eakin]

Is Rincewind the most heroic wizard on the Disc? I'd say both cases are "Yes, but only by accident."

He's a weird combination of Genre Savvy and Obfuscating Stupidity mixed with almost absurd level of luck.

[TreesOfDeath]

Elan was invited into the group because he helped Roy form the group.
I'd say more, but I'd need to whip out the spoiler tags for Order of the Pcs

[Emanick]

However, while the original body is animated as an unintelligent undead, it is not possible by any means to raise the person from the dead--not even True Resurrection will work in that case. This implies the person's soul is bound in SOME way to prevent it being raised...

Both Dorukan and R.A. Salvatore's work (The Cleric Quinet, specifically The Chaos Curse) refute that. Dorukan refutes it in SoD, I suppose that's not worth a spoiler.
I think it's the fact that the person's body can't exist zombified as well as alive that prevents True Resurrection. When you die, your soul is seperated from your body, and it can't be rejoined while your body still exists, but in a state animated by some other means.

[krossbow]

Both Dorukan and R.A. Salvatore's work (The Cleric Quinet, specifically The Chaos Curse) refute that. Dorukan refutes it in SoD, I suppose that's not worth a spoiler.
I think it's the fact that the person's body can't exist zombified as well as alive that prevents True Resurrection. When you die, your soul is seperated from your body, and it can't be rejoined while your body still exists, but in a state animated by some other means.



It'd be interesting--- Can reincarnate be used on someone who's body has been used to make an undead?


If its simply a case of you can't jam the soul back into the body if its being used as a zombie, then yes. If the soul is infact bonded, then no.





Personally, i'm of the mind that in the D&D world, its the former, and the soul simply can't be ressurected due to its vessel being Occupido. After all, if the soul can resist being raised from the dead by an evil person, why can't it do the same when an undead is created.

[factotum]

It'd be interesting--- Can reincarnate be used on someone who's body has been used to make an undead?


No, it can't. However, Reincarnate also requires you to have some portion of the body that was present when the creature died, which might be difficult to retrieve if said body is shambling around muttering Braaaiins every now and again...

As for Dorukan refuting it in SoD:


All he says is that they've been trying to resurrect her for years but could never find her soul. Since her soul was bound into Xykon's black gem, that's not surprising. If they HAD found her soul, we have no idea if they would have been able to resurrect her, since she was also an Undead at the time.

[Selene]

Only the show on which my entire internet personality is based!
*forgives and provides with DVDs*

Ooh! I don't know what Star Trek is either, then. I particularly don't know what The Original Series and TNG are. Do I get DVDs, too? :smallbiggrin:

[Sir_Elderberry]

Elan's not smart. Elan is raw luck. He's the opposite of Cosmic Plaything.

[AceOfFools]

Anyway, what exactly did he have to contribute towards the party in the first place? In a just world he shouldn't even get a share of treasure since he probably hindered the progress of obtaining it rather then helping........

I take it you've never played with a high level bard.

Round one: everyone in the party gets +3 to attack and weapon damage rolls.
Round two: The big tank gets another +2 to hit, +1 fort and 2d10 +2*con hit points as per gaining 2 HD (inspire greatness).

In a large group like OotS, particularly with both a rapid shotting archer, and a 2wf ranger, Elan is actually really effective (Assuming Roy and Durkon get 3 attacks/round, Haley and Belkar get 4, he is responsible to up to 42 damage/a round discounting his own actions, critical hits, and hits that would have been misses w/o that bonus to attack rolls).

The most hardcore I've seen a group "walk" supposedly difficult encounters was entirely due to a bard who never did anything with her actions but play her cello. And that party had two mages that essentially didn't benefit from her music, and was a low enough level that bardsong only gave +2.

In all seriousness, bards rock.

I apologize for the DnD geekery, but it is OotS

[chiasaur11]

Elan's not smart. Elan is raw luck. He's the opposite of Cosmic Plaything.

Hey, he's genre savvy too.

[Kish]

I take it you've never played with a high level bard.
[...]
In all seriousness, bards rock.

I apologize for the DnD geekery, but it is OotS
You're missing the point. Elan is not a generic A Bard. What a high-level bard could theoretically do means nothing to Elan's usefulness or lack thereof.

[puzpuz]

Yes, he is a prty member. He saved their butts couple of time, and he is getting paied for being there.

But he's definitely not the smartest. :smalltongue:

[Selene]

You're missing the point. Elan is not a generic A Bard. What a high-level bard could theoretically do means nothing to Elan's usefulness or lack thereof.

His class skills don't relate to his usefulness? Even if he forgets to use them, other party members remind him. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0478.html

[Animefunkmaster]

I take it you've never played with a high level bard.

I have and I disagree with your statements. Since you are talking theoretical 20th level, I will run with that.

Roy: 4 attacks
Haley: 4 attacks (3 + rapid shot presumably)
Belkar: 8 attacks (4 attacks + twf chain presumably)
Durkon: 3 Attacks

19 attacks *3 = 57 bonus damage.

Meteor Swarm grants
8d6 bludgeoning + 24d6= 112 avg damage on a touch attack
and 24d6 (reflex half) to those 40 ft around

Lets use a lower level spell as an example:

Control Winds can generate a tornado as low as level 10
That tornado is controlled for 10 min per level, those who come in contact with the funnel cloud (dc 30 for those in "close proximity" to be sucked in) are picked up and whirled around for 1d10 round, taking 6d6 per round (Avg damage being 115.5, but over time), and then take falling damage, no save... not to mention they can do very little when near/in the tornado).

So, the joke here is that bards are fairly weak to begin with (bard get more useful over long combat, but there real place is social situations), and Elan not being anywhere near the A bard makes for hilarious results.

[AceOfFools]

I have and I disagree with your statements. Since you are talking theoretical 20th level, I will run with that.

Roy: 4 attacks
Haley: 4 attacks (3 + rapid shot presumably)
Belkar: 8 attacks (4 attacks + twf chain presumably)
Durkon: 3 Attacks

19 attacks *3 = 57 bonus damage.

Meteor Swarm grants
8d6 bludgeoning + 24d6= 112 avg damage on a touch attack
and 24d6 (reflex half) to those 40 ft around

Lets use a lower level spell as an example:

Control Winds can generate a tornado as low as level 10
That tornado is controlled for 10 min per level, those who come in contact with the funnel cloud (dc 30 for those in "close proximity" to be sucked in) are picked up and whirled around for 1d10 round, taking 6d6 per round (Avg damage being 115.5, but over time), and then take falling damage, no save... not to mention they can do very little when near/in the tornado).

So, the joke here is that bards are fairly weak to begin with (bard get more useful over long combat, but there real place is social situations), and Elan not being anywhere near the A bard makes for hilarious results.

Actually, I was assuming 12th lvl, albeit badly.

Geeky stuff:
Now that I've actually double checked the rules, he only grants +2 to attack/damage without use of splat books and Haley only has 3 attacks with rapid shot, not four for a total of 24 damage/round not counting his own actions and effect of to-hit bonuses, and that all other party members full attack. I restrict myself to the assumption that all Elan ever does is use bard song because he has been (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html) shown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0019.html) to (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0034.html) do (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0061.html) so (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html) (and that's just the first 200 strips, sans bonus material).

A more rule-savy bard of his level would start with haste, to grant every party member another attack, and would be able to fill the role of secondary healer, both with his spells and with wands of cure light, allowing Durkon better use of his often more potent cleric spells.

So Elan is far from useless, even when he doesn't get a chance to put his social skills to use (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0101.html). He's easily the least important member of the party, but he's at worst use impaired, but able to contribute to every fight in some small way.