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View Full Version : Hobgoblins - Making them either ecl 1 or earn 2



Duff
2008-05-22, 05:56 AM
Why? - Bc they really are ecl 1.5 now...

The inevitable conquest - make them really ecl 2 (using Aasimar as a sample to balance against) - Add the following:
- Hide and move silent are always class skills
- +2 racial bonus to intimidate goblins
- Proficiant in Falchion, battleaxe, Scimitar and spiked armor

Why the empire is not yet come... ECL 1 Hobs
The main thing making them have to be ecl 2 is a net bonus on stats so...
Remove the Con bonus. - They are still healthyer than elves but don't have any real edge over other races. -2 Cha. Hobgoblins just arn't that nice! +1 bonus on intimidation. +2 when intimidating goblinoids and slaves.

Tempest Fennac
2008-05-22, 06:10 AM
The D&D Wiki featured 1 LA 0 Hobgoblin which was the same as normal ones with a -1 penalty to all Will saves tagged on (I haven't been able to find the page in months, it featured a weak LA 0 Gnoll which I wanted to double check, but the fluff reason for the Will penalty was that Hobgoblins are used to following orders).

Bayar
2008-05-22, 06:14 AM
But still, a LA 1 on a Hobgoblin is injustified. Why? Just because they have bonus to stats and no penalties ? That is not fair.

(plus it busted my bubble of a Dragonborn Fire Hubgoblin Wizard :smallfrown:)

weishan
2008-05-22, 06:46 PM
[QUOTE=Duff;4353922]Why? - make them really ecl 2 (using Aasimar as a sample QUOTE]

Aasimar are vey weak for LA +1. A very poor choice to balance against. For a good example of LA +2, look at the goliath or githzerai. IMO, hobgoblin is a reasonable +1 LA race. In any case, a hobgoblin modified as you've suggested still doesn't come close to a well balanced LA +2 race.

Satyr
2008-05-23, 03:13 PM
Sooo... hobgoblins are reasonable LA +1 creatures, and aasimar (which are a lot better) are very weak for their LA... I think I can't really follow you there.

In our main Campaign, we use the following background for Hobgoblins (who are one of the most powerful and most important cultures in the campaign world) with different subraces/vcultures for the different branches of the warrior pride's people. Feel free to copy them all, or any combination you like.

Basic Hobgoblin LA +1
All Hobgoblin subspecies have the following traits in common:
Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
A hobgoblin’s base land speed is 30 ft
Dark Vision: A hobgoblin can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and Hobgoblins can function just fine with no light at all.
Sharp Senses: Hobgoblins have keen sense, trained for hunt and warfare. They gain a +2 racial bonus to Spot, Search, and Listen Checks
Silent Hunters: Hobgoblins are predators and excellent hunters. They gain a +2 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently.
Know no fear: Hobgoblins are legendary for their bravery and despise cowards. Hobgoblins receive a +2 racial bonus against fear effects.

Krangi (Hobgoblins of Norga-Krangel and the northern tribes)
+2 to Strength,+2 to Dexterity, +2 Constitution, Charisma -2
Keen Senses: Even for Hobgoblins, the Krangi have exceptionally sharp senses, similar to those of an Elf. Their total Bonus to Search , Spot and Listen is +2 instead of +1
Favored Class: Fighter

Kargi (Hobgoblins of Ul-Karg and the deep south)
+2 to Dexterity, +2 Constitution
Resilient: Kargi Hobgoblins are not as muscled as their northern brethren, but they are harder to subdue or kill: They receive a racial +1 bonus to Fortitude saves and two additional Hitpoints at 1st level
Favorite Class: Barbarian

Kors (mercenary tribes in the human realms)
+2 to Strength, +2 Constitution (+10 FP)
Expert Weaponsmiths: +2 racial bonus to all Craft and Appraise checks when dealing with armor, weapons, and raw metals. Due to their background in mining and warfare, the Kors know their metals and weapons very well.
Sense the weakness: Kors Hobgoblins are used to read the body language of their counterparts and look especially for weaknesses to exploit. They receive a +2 racial bonus to Intimidate and Sense Motive checks.
Well protected: The thick fur of the Kors protect them greatly against coldness and bad weather: They receive a racial +2 bonus on fortitude saves to resist the effects of cold weather or exposure
Favorite Class: Fighter

Dazlak (Nomad Tribes of the desert)
+2 to Dexterity, +2 to Constitution
Desert Dweller: +2 racial bonus to Survival checks when in the desert. The Dazlak have adapted and thrived in the harsh desert climate, and as a result are very skilled at surviving there.
Heat Endurance: Dazlak gain a +4 racial bonus on Fortitude saves made to resist the effects of hot weather.
Favorite Class: Ranger

teennerd4684
2008-05-24, 02:52 PM
Aasimar are vey weak for LA +1. A very poor choice to balance against. For a good example of LA +2, look at the goliath or githzerai. IMO, hobgoblin is a reasonable +1 LA race. In any case, a hobgoblin modified as you've suggested still doesn't come close to a well balanced LA +2 race.

ECL 2, not LA +2.

Kizara
2008-05-24, 03:09 PM
But still, a LA 1 on a Hobgoblin is injustified. Why? Just because they have bonus to stats and no penalties ? That is not fair.

(plus it busted my bubble of a Dragonborn Fire Hubgoblin Wizard :smallfrown:)

I agree that they don't quite even earn LA 1, although LA 0 would be wholly overpowered.

I'd give them +2 Strength to make it a bit better. Still outdone by goliath, but its close enough to be competitive.


As to the OP, you honestly think +2 Dex and Con and a +4 racial bonus to Move Silently is wroth LA 2? Honestly, what are you smoking? Yes, its better then assimar, but that is because assimar are terrible.

Duff
2008-05-29, 04:57 AM
[QUOTE=Duff;4353922]Why? - make them really ecl 2 (using Aasimar as a sample QUOTE]

Aasimar are vey weak for LA +1. A very poor choice to balance against.
I was aiming at LA+1, no higher. I figured if my suggestion improved the Hob to the Aasimar level at least it would be a step in the right direction and not risk going too far. I'm happy to take suggestions that go further as well, I haven't come up with "The" right mix yet.

Rion
2008-05-29, 05:10 AM
What about the one posted on the Goblin Defense Fund website? Is that one still underpowered?

Ecalsneerg
2008-05-29, 06:19 AM
I agree that they don't quite even earn LA 1, although LA 0 would be wholly overpowered.

I'd give them +2 Strength to make it a bit better. Still outdone by goliath, but its close enough to be competitive.


As to the OP, you honestly think +2 Dex and Con and a +4 racial bonus to Move Silently is wroth LA 2? Honestly, what are you smoking? Yes, its better then assimar, but that is because assimar are terrible.

ECL 2, i.e. 1 class level, LA +1

imp_fireball
2009-04-21, 10:22 PM
But still, a LA 1 on a Hobgoblin is injustified. Why? Just because they have bonus to stats and no penalties ? That is not fair.

(plus it busted my bubble of a Dragonborn Fire Hubgoblin Wizard :smallfrown:)

Not to mention humans already make up for having no stat bonuses with a bonus feat and a bonus skill point at every level, which hobbies don't have. I think it's plausible for an ECL 0 raise with stat bonuses but nothing else.

Anything stripped bear with absolutely no benefits (essentially, human but without the benefits) would be less of a challenge rating.