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Pandabear
2008-05-22, 09:57 AM
Hello all,

I have a question of which I'm sure there are (more than) a few players playing around here. I have recently finished playing Star Wars : Knights of the Old Republic and rather liked the system there, which turns out to be based on the "old" Star Wars d20 rules. In a few months time, I'm considering starting a game with my current DnD group if they feel like it, but here's the thing. There only seems to be available for purchase the new Saga rules, of which I've heard places rather heavy emphasis on using miniatures. Now, if I want to play a game with miniatures I'll go play Warhammer.
I want the characters to have as much freedom as possible, and I really wouldn't like the miniature to take away trying to imagine how a character looks like. If location really matters, a whiteboard is more than enough.

However, I can't seem to find anything to find anything like a core source book for the "old" Star Wars d20 rules. If I had an ISBN, or a link to it, it would help tremendously.

So, my question to you is, could I play Saga without having to do things like converting squares and hexes to feet and metres (or at least too much)?
Can you give me some advice on how to find the older books? What are your experiences with the systems and what would you recommend?

Thanks in advance!

PnP Fan
2008-05-22, 10:16 AM
Let me preface my response by saying, I've only read the Saga rules, not played them (though we start doing that this weekend!!!!). I've played/GM'ed both versions of the d20 SW rules. From what I've read and played so far, I think you'll find that they are equivalent in terms of using miniatures for combat.
Which is to say, if you are worried about spending money on miniatures and what not, just use something else (loose change, poker chips, paper cutouts, whatever). If your concern is that things like areas of effect will clutter up your game board, well, I don't know, my experience has generally been that using a grid only helps to minimize confusion about what's going on in any given scene, but I think you could probably play either game without a grid and playing pieces. You'd probably just have to do a lot more adjudicating about how many stormtroopers get caught in a Force Push (or grenade toss, or whatever).
I will also pass on info from my friends who have played the Saga edition. All of them say that it tends to move faster, and be more representative of what happens in the movies.
As far as where to get out of print RPGs, I would suggest your local bookstore first, including used bookstores. You might also check NobleKnight games on the internet. I've had good luck with them in the past. If they don't have what you are looking for, I've found out of print stuff in Amazon's Used book inventory.
Hope that helps.
Good luck,
and may the force. . never mind. ;-)

SpikeFightwicky
2008-05-22, 10:29 AM
Here's the scoop:

Saga Edition doesn't place any more emphasis on minis than SW: D20 or D&D 3.5 does. Simply convert 'squares' to 'metres' on a 1/1 basis, and that covers distances. If you play D&D 3.X with minis, it'll be about the same experience. If you play it without, I don't see how there would be any extra problems when playing Saga Ed.

As for the system itself, it's much better balanced between classes than SW:d20 mostly due to the talent system (though Jedi still have a bit of an edge, it's not quite as severe as before). OVerall, my gaming group found Saga to be a lot more enjoyable.

As for finding the older books, that may be hard to do. The only thing I can think of is looking them up on E-Bay (or possibly Amazon).

Mando Knight
2008-05-22, 10:29 AM
There is quite a heavy emphasis on miniatures in Saga edition, and like the new 4E D&D it gives distances in squares (roughly 1.5 meter squares this time...) rather than meters or feet, (Starship scale squares are completely wacky, a Star Destroyer takes up as much space as four YT-1300s...) but it is possible to play without the miniatures.

I don't actually have any Star Wars minis...

Saga Edition does do something that d20 edition doesn't: balances Jedi and non-Jedi PCs. The d20 edition has more books out right now, but Saga just got Threats of the Galaxy, AKA Monster Manual for Star Wars, as well as the starships splatbook

If you decide on d20 rather than Saga, you'll want to search for the Revised Core Rulebook. (http://www.amazon.com/Revised-Core-Rulebook-Star-Roleplaying/dp/078692876X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211470796&sr=8-1)

Lycan 01
2008-05-22, 10:30 AM
Star Wars RPG? Hm. I've been looking through and perusing tabletop RPG games, looking for a good one to play. For some odd reason, I haven't paid much attention to Star War... Anybody mind answering a few questions?

-How hard is it to learn to play?
-How many players are recommended?
-What are the games usually about?
-How much does it cost?
-Where can I get it?

Attilargh
2008-05-22, 10:35 AM
It's just about as battlemat-intensive as the previous editions of Star Wars d20 (or, as I like to call 'em, "D&D IN SPAAAAACE!"), with the only real difference being that the previous editions used two meters in place of squares and used drawn pictures instead of photos of miniatures on a battlemat to illustrate tactical movement. Wizards just figured out it might be a clever move to advertise their miniature game in their role-playing game, and I don't really mind because the stuff doesn't get in the way.

Saga is a good game, and you need to remember only two things to remove the miniatures: A square is about two meters in character scale, and AoOs are not all that necessary for combat.

Tough_Tonka
2008-05-22, 10:54 AM
Yeah, Saga pretty balanced with regards to the force and its made the force so much simpler. Some of the the force powers can be a bit overwhelming though.

If you use saga edition and allow force users be careful of the Force Grip power. I recommend allowing the powers target one standard action rather than just one minor action if the force-user beats their fort defense, since if your force user is probably going to beat the Fort Defense ever time and its a bitch to have you boss limited to one minor action a round.

Pandabear
2008-05-22, 10:59 AM
Thanks for the information thus far guys.

One question though, isn't Saga d20 based?

RTGoodman
2008-05-22, 11:12 AM
I'm answering here for Saga Edition, since that's the only one I have experience with.


-How hard is it to learn to play?
About as hard as D&D 3.5/4E, since it's sort of a combination of both. Really, it was the testing grounds for a lot of 4E stuff, and simplified a lot, so it's probably easier than D&D 3.5 and the older SW d20.


-How many players are recommended?
I believe it's the same as other d20 games, four or five plus a DM.


-What are the games usually about?
The same things Star Wars is usually about. A scoundrel, a soldier, a techie, and a Jedi fighting off [Sith/Clone Troopers/Stormtroopers/generic bad guys] to [save a planet/restore the Force/score loot/pick up the ladies/whatever].


-How much does it cost?
The rulebooks are sort of expensive, like other WotC d20 stuff, but not exorbitant. You can find the prices for the SWSE Core book online easily, as well as the price for Starships of the Galaxy (I believe that's the name), which is the first "splatbook."


-Where can I get it?
Your FLGS can hook you up with it, or you could probably just find it at the local B&N/Borders/Books a Million. If not, the internet is your friend - Amazon, Half.com, eBay, and other places are sure to have it, and probably cheaper if that's what you're looking for.



Thanks for the information thus far guys.

One question though, isn't Saga d20 based?

Yeah, it's still a d20 game, but it's not exactly like the d20 of the OGL/D&D 3.5. Really, it's more like 4E D&D than anything, which is d20-based (i.e., same core mechanic and stuff) but different mechanics for various things.

Lycan 01
2008-05-22, 11:15 AM
Thank you for answering my questions. :smallsmile: I'll have to look into this. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, so I'm kinda mentally kicking myself for not looking into it sooner...

The J Pizzel
2008-05-22, 11:40 AM
We've played SAGA since the day it came out, and I mean to the day. The old D20 cries itself to sleep in comparison. As far as the miniatures is concered. We use mini's in DnD and SW:SAGA, but rest assured...it's not really needed. We use them for most close quarter fights to represent cover from barstools, crates, other poeple; to calculate wether someone's in a blast; and other obvious reason that an exact locations is kinda needed. However, in open ground (and I use that term loosely; it includes almost any outdoors fight) we don't bother. Most outdoor skirmishes go like this: "Is he within Rifle range?. Good. I rapid shot his arse". Or, "If I throw a thermal, will it get all of them in that circle? Sweet." That's how we like it.

So, no. Mini's are not needed. And SAGA is far superior to d20 IMO. Which is why I'm stoked about 4e.

jP

Lycan 01
2008-05-22, 11:53 AM
Hm. Would anybody mind writing a summary or two of th last game(s) they played? I want to know what sort of experiences and missions and stuff this game has to offer...

Premier
2008-05-22, 12:19 PM
Forget about all these WotC-produced games and see if you can get a copy of the original Star Wars RPG on Ebay (either first or second edition would be great for a newbie to the syste,), the one produced by West End Games in 1987 (or '88). It's superiour. Very easy and quick to learn for both GMs and players, it has elegant, simple rules that facilitate the quick, pulpy, roll-with-it style of Star Wars, perfectly playable with no miniatures, has "splatbook" material available, and even if you can't find what you're looking for, you can translate any race, ship, item - or, well, anything - into an in-game entity with numbers and rules in a few minutes.

ShaggyMarco
2008-05-22, 12:41 PM
Here's my summary:

I'm the DM, we play 130 years after the battle of Yavin, during the Legacy Era.

3 sessions ago: PCs arrive in their ship, the One-Eyed Jack in orbit above Nagi, searching for clues detailing the existance of the Mask of Mandalore the ultimate, long thought lost. Upon atmospheric entry, they are assaulted by ground-to-air barrages, blasting a hole in their ship, sucking the Jedi, Kalon Dak'toren out into the city below. His brother, Rolan Dak'Toren uses the force and knows that he survived the fall and is okay. The rest of the party manage to land and are greeted by a group of Nagai who work for the planetary government.

The party speaks to the head of the Nagai government and finds out that the world is in the middle of a civil war--that a group of Nagai have rallied around a rival politician and former general and are demanding a change in leadership as the rebuilding process of their planet after a recent war to reclaim their planet has been going too slow. The PCs mention their search for the mask, and the leader of the Nagai tells them of a haunted ruin that is supposedly the burial place of a great battle that occured thousands of years ago, involving the Mandalorians. He agrees to help the PCs get there if they can do him a favor--take out the opposing leadership and put an end to the Nagi civil war.

the PCs- a Zabrak engineer, his Mandalorian War-droid, a human Imperial Knight, a human force-sensitive bodyguard, and a gambling human gunslinger--proceed to plan an assault on the barracks where the opposing leader is staying.

They rig enough Speeder-bikes to ride two-to a bike, and then rig a fourth bike with lots of explosives, provided by the Engineer. They ride the speeders through the war-torn city, breaking through two blockades of Nagai "freedom-fighting" snipers and soldiers.

2 sessions ago: Meanwhile: Kalon falls to the ground but manages to control his fall well enough to only get the wind knocked out of him when he lands. He is eventually discovered by a Nagai patrol and taken to their leader, a very Charimatic Nagai officer who realises that Kalon, like himself, is force sensitive. The two have a long conversation, and Kalon seems willing to help the officer with some of his problems. Eventually, the officer teaches Kalon a special Force Technique that allows him to change his appearance. When explosions happen up above, the officer locks Kalon in the study and goes to see to the problem.

The other PCs have arrived at the barracks. The Force-Sensitive body-guard who is VERY tough...almost suicidally so, drives the exploding bike up to the gate, jumping off at the last second, blasting a hole. The other PCs rush in on their speeders and start dispatching guards. Around the side of the building, an At-St arrives, shooting at the PCs. The Imperial Knight throws the walker into the E-web on top of the building, disabling both. In all of the fighting, the War-Droid manages to hack the lock on the door and break in. The PCs eventually fight their way inside.

Kalon, hearing fighting above, hacks the lock holding him in and rushes to the turbolift. When the doors open, he finds himself face-to-fcae with his brother, and the group, now united, rushes in to the command center.

There they face the Officer, actually a fairly powerful Dark-Side user, who uses lots of Force powers on them befor ethey can get to him. He has a very strong bodyguard, but a few well-placed shots from the gunslinger drop him. The Imperial Knight, Jedi Knight, and Officer dual for a while, eventually resulting in the officer's death. The gunslinger, bodyguard, and droid clear up the rest of the soldiers in the ocmpound and make tactical suggestions, aiding the two Knights.

They return to the main Citadel of Nagi as heroes.

Last Session They venture to the ruins, as promised by the Nagi. Inside, they find evidence that these ruins FAR predate even Darth Revan's war against the True Sith. Eventually powering up the top floor, they find a turbolift shaft down. They climb down to the bottom floor, sensing a strong presence of the dark side of the force. On the bottom level they find a series of Mandalorian Tombs, each with inscriptions that describe a battle between Revan's Mandalorian Crusaders, led by Mandalore Ordo, against the Sith of Nagai. Ordo's troops are successful, but Ordo and most of his men are killed in the process. In the center of the room is a statue of a SIth Lord surrendering to the huge statue of Mandalore Ordo. around the statue is a pit, filled with the bones of his enemies.

Once all of the PCs enter, the room darkens, and when they wake up, all of their allies are gone. Each sees an enemy that we have encountered before, or a friend corrupted by evil. The PCs fight these dark visions until a couple of them realise that the beings they are fighting are not really their enemies, but their friends. When the refuse to fight each other (or have disabled their opponents) the Dark-side image passes, and the statue comes to life, inhabited by the Dark Ghost of Darth Flagg. He fights the PCs until his statue is shattered. He then explains to the PCs he was set here to guard the Grand Admiral's treasures until worthy opponents came along to claim them...and that was a little more than 100 years ago. The pedastal moves aside, and underneath is a passageway.

The PCs travel down and find a gallary of Old-Republic era artifacts and art objects, including the mask. They return to the Mandalorian Stronghold on Tatooine, earning Manadalore Fett's promise for the Mandalorians to take the side of the Imperial Rebellion against the Sith. The Zabarak Engineer, a fine martial artist, is offered a place amongst their clans: He accepts and is renamed Kosh Fett.

The other PCs have a secret rendevous with the Emperor-in-Exile, Roan Fel. He rewards them and offers them all places in his military. He promises the noble gunslinger a high-ranking appointment once he gets his Empire back. He takes his Knight back into his service, while the knight's brother, the Jedi goes in search of other surviving Jedi to try and get into safe houses. The noble and his bodyguard decide to head back out on their own, and offer to help both the Imperials and the Jedi whenever they could. End first "movie."

The second storyarc will pick up with some of the PCs returning and meeting each other, and some players coming in with new PCs. We start a week from tonight.

PnP Fan
2008-05-22, 01:28 PM
On the subject of the original west end games SW game:
Hey, it was definitely a decent game, I won't argue with that. The real problem with it is that it's going to be hard to find. It's something like 20 years old, and was only glue bound in the first place! I remember the mechanic being fairly simple, and flexible enough to handle a lot of things. Now, what I've not done with it is play a Jedi (not allowed in the campaign I played). But, from what I recall, because not a lot was known about the Old Republic in those days, the sorts of things Jedi could do with their powers were somewhat ill defined.

Of course, do what you want with your cash, but if you want a product that has support for it, and that your players can easily get their hands on, Saga is your best bet (followed by the d20 versions of the game).

ShaggyMarco
2008-05-22, 01:55 PM
Saga edition is great: so long as you don't mind having fairly limited options. There are a lot of things Saga edition doesn't do YET, but that's becaus eit is a fairly new system with only 3 books to its name at the moment.

I find myself homebrewing a lot and house-ruling a lot, but overall, it's a fairly good system.

I have lots of problems with SWD20 system, but they had enough books to grant lots of options--if you can find them.

Saga will only improve.

Lycan 01
2008-05-22, 02:09 PM
Here's my summary:

I'm the DM, we play 130 years after the battle of Yavin, during the Legacy Era.

-snip-

The second storyarc will pick up with some of the PCs returning and meeting each other, and some players coming in with new PCs. We start a week from tonight.

Wow. That's pretty cool!

So you can do just about anything at any point in the Star Wars timeline, then? Do you have to do extravagant things, or could you just do more humble things (while building up bigger plots) like smuggle stuff for money, or take part in a pod race to win favor with the Hutts, or maybe do some bounty hunting?

KillianHawkeye
2008-05-22, 06:07 PM
Look, it's just like any other RPG. The adventures aren't written in the rulebook. The GM can make up any adventure he wants. You could completely relive the movies with your own characters, or do something that has nothing to do with the Sith or Jedi, the Rebellion or the Empire. That's the freedom of RPGs, and the great thing about the Star Wars setting is that despite having thousands of years of history, not much really ever changes.

Lycan 01
2008-05-22, 06:18 PM
Thanks. I figured that, but I wanted to be sure.

I'm trying to find an RPG to start with my friends. Choices were DnD, Shadowrun, or Star Wars. Star Wars seems to be the best choice... :smallbiggrin:

Talya
2008-05-22, 09:33 PM
The real problem with it is that it's going to be hard to find. It's something like 20 years old, and was only glue bound in the first place!


PDF files don't fall apart with age. ;)

And yes, you can find West End Games SW peer-to-peer.

Farmer42
2008-05-22, 10:20 PM
SAGA makes me happy inside. It's smooth, elegant, and simple. It has a high level of modularity in character design, so that each character is truly unique and no two play the same way.

Lycan 01
2008-05-23, 08:17 PM
Hey, um... I've been doing a lot of research and stuff into the SW RPG, and I've gotten about... ohhh... 5 people signed on? And probably another 3-4 who'd be interested... Anyway, I'm probably gonna get it tommorrow. Saga rules, of course.


So I've been thinking up little ideas and stuff, and here's a plotline I created. I already asked another huge SW RP buff on another forum about it, and he liked it. But I wanted a 2nd opinion. How does this sound?





Setting: Tatooine, Ep I & II Era
Characters: Bounty Hunters
Goal: Capture a member of Jabba's gang

The member in question is wanted for murder and weapon smuggling. He has a huge bounty if captured alive, and a modest bounty if brought in dead. No money for disentigrations... He resides in Jabba's Palace, so getting to him would be difficult. However, there are a few ways of getting to him...
Option 1: Pose as a customer and try to arrange a meeting with him
Option 2: Partake in a Pod Race in order to win Jabba's favor and gain entrance to his Palace

If they set up a meeting, they have to find a way out into the Dune Sea, and wait for the target. Three things can happen.
1: If they've failed a few things along the way, they get ambushed by the target's friends who knew they were bounty hunters, and have to fight their way to freedom, killing or capturing the target on the way out.
2: If they've excelled at every challenge, they meet with the target and take him down without a hitch.
Or...
3: If I'm feeling mean, they get attacked by Tusken Raiders. Or if I'm feeling really mean, a Krayt Dragon. :D Same as Option 1, but with more enemies to worry about.

Now, if they decide to do the Pod Race, they must:
-Get a Pod Racer (Watto has a cruddy one for cheap)
-Repair it (Either hire a guy, or one of them who has the skills can fix it up)
-Win the race (Somebody with uber-reflexes and high skills needs to dodge some junk on the track and avoid other racers. Meanwhile, the other players have to take down a sabatour who is going to detonate a bomb on their friend's racer in order to get back at Watto)
-After winning the race, they meet with Jabba to collect their winnings. They have a few options...
1: Suggest trading their Pod Racer for the target (Uber-charisma required...)
2: Accept his invitation to his Palace, which results in...
a- Kidnapping the target when nobody is paying attention (requires uber-stealth and other skills)
b- Getting busted by Jabba for being Bounty Hunters. He decides to kill them. However, if one of them has a Thermal Detonator, they can always try to "bargain" their way out, taking the target with them.

If they get captured, Jabba takes them out into the Dune Sea and tries to feed them to a Krayt Dragon. The following could happen:
1: They all die. Game Over...
2: They survive/fight it off for a certain amount of time. The KD gets bored and chases after Jabba's sail barge. The heroes then must wander back into town without dying to the elements and Tusken Raiders.
3: They kill the KD. Jabba, not wanting to be enemies with somebody capable of killing a KD, forks over their freedom, as well as the target.


(There are a few other ways to get captured by Jabba. If they lose the ambush with the dealer, cause a fight at the Pod Race, get caught doing something stupid, et cetra... And as an easter egg, they later find out that due to the incident with the Krayt Dragon, Jabba now only uses the Sarlaac to kill people. :smalltongue:)


Eventually, once the target is captured/obtained/lost, they return to a meeting point with their contact, who collects the target and pays them the bounty, or yells at them for screwing it up so badly.

How does all that sound?



Edit: Oh, and just so we're clear, this is NOT THE FIRST GAME WE'LL PLAY. The first few games will be simple "Smuggle this from point A to B..." and "Save this rebel spy from that Imperial detention center..." quests and the like. Once we all know how to play, and I have several loyal and skilled players, we'll move on to things like what I have posted above. (Which only took me a day of idle thought to think of...)

turkishproverb
2008-05-24, 04:00 AM
Saga edition's Skill system is wacked out If you houserule in the old skill system it becomes playable.

Beleriphon
2008-05-24, 04:14 AM
Saga edition's Skill system is wacked out If you houserule in the old skill system it becomes playable.

No it works perfectly for an RPG where you make rolls that matter, and more to the point for Star Wars where everybody is reasonably good at everything, but some people are just that much better.

Ossian
2008-05-24, 09:14 AM
I have a copy of the WEG starwars (the d6). Tell you what> character development and creation were awesom, the classes (non existing in the first place) were perfectly balanced and the game was real fun. There was one problem though, which is exactly what made us move to another system. Too many dice rolls.
It became as bad as this: 2 force users dueling with lightsaber, both very high level. They both parry and attack.
5d6 x 2 each to roll for perception and alter
10d6 each to roll for attack
10d6 each to roll for parry
10d6 each roll for damage

70 d6 in one round (it is an extreme example though). Far too much. I know there are cheats and triks to skip some dice rolling and to make calculations more easily, but still, it was rather clumsy. Maybe with a computerized dice roller....

Anyway, I would go with saga. I have played d20 RCR and only read the Saga ed. but it looked fast paced and did npt strike me as specifically miniature heavy. The minis are there to help, but if you just want storytelling (by far the best part) and fluid action, just sketch the situation on scrap paper behind the GM screen to help you figure the most complicated action scenes, and make up the rest.
After all, it is star wars, not America`s Army...:smallcool:

Lycan 01
2008-05-24, 09:55 AM
Sketch? I like that idea. I'm good at drawing, especially star wars stuff...


And does anyone care about my plot idea? :smallfrown:

Shraik
2008-05-24, 10:01 AM
be an OG(Original-Gamer)
d6 is the way to go.
Word.

turkishproverb
2008-05-25, 12:46 AM
No it works perfectly for an RPG where you make rolls that matter, and more to the point for Star Wars where everybody is reasonably good at everything, but some people are just that much better.

For the final time, any DM that has you needing to have max ranks to pass most of the checks is really crutching.

Caewil
2008-05-25, 12:58 AM
No, the skills system works just fine, save for Use the Force. That can be fixed by limiting access to Skill Focus: Use the Force as a feat until level ten or suchlike. By then, defenses have scaled up enough that it won't be horribly broken. Or just require a good roleplaying reason for it. And for the sake of balance, don't let Fool's Luck work on the Use the Force skill. Ever.

Pandabear
2008-05-26, 03:50 AM
There.. I've bought the Saga Core rulebook this weekend, mostly because Saga seems to be favoured by most here (though if I ever can get my hands on the d6 system, I might be very tempted to pick it up) and skimming a bit through it has made a mix of impressions on me.. somewhere along the lines of 'What?', 'Huh?', 'Bummer..', and 'Cool!'

I'm sure we're going to have a lot of fun with the 'Cool!' part, yet the other things are going to need a bit of polish.. For instance, this Force point system looks like you get a small number of points per level and lose them permanently before you get a new one.. That means like at level 20 you end up with a master swordsman with no powers left that actually require Force points..

Furthermore, I think the NPC section could've been a bit more extensive.. I intend to have all my players start out without a Hero class, and let them roleplay into getting one.. part of the fun of becoming a Jedi comes from the revelation that you actually got the knack for it after all..

That said, I want to determine semi-randomly if someone gains Force sensitivity.. To make sure I don't have a full party of Jedi early on.. Last, I found it a bit disappointing you can't play some of the coolest droids in the game.. I will try try to work around that one..

Anyway, thanks all for your feedback, It's much appreciated!

Talya
2008-05-26, 06:47 AM
For instance, this Force point system looks like you get a small number of points per level and lose them permanently before you get a new one.. That means like at level 20 you end up with a master swordsman with no powers left that actually require Force points..


While I agree with your general point here, a level 20 jedi without a Force Point Recovery technique or three will be pretty rare.

I wouldn't play Saga anywhere near level 20. The balance in opposed skills vs. defenses peaks around level 12 and becomes worthless at 20.

Pandabear
2008-05-26, 08:50 AM
Oooh! Recovery techniques.. I'll be sure to look those up in the core rulebook (if it's in there) and make good note of it. Thanks!

Talya
2008-05-26, 08:58 AM
Oooh! Recovery techniques.. I'll be sure to look those up in the core rulebook (if it's in there) and make good note of it. Thanks!

It is. It's a "Force Technique" (which the Jedi Knight and Sith Apprentice prestige classes have access to.)

Pandabear
2008-05-26, 10:13 AM
That'll come in handy..

Luckily, most players in my group have some if not a lot of GM experience, so if we find something hard to implement, we either find how it should work, or come up with something fair for everyone.. First thing that came to my mind was to have it regenerate a couple of boxes depending on wisdom score with a minimum for one in a few hours or so..

Maerok
2008-05-26, 10:41 AM
Saga is sexy. :smalltongue: Except I still feel like you just can't compete with the inevitable Force Lightning nut...

Pandabear
2008-05-26, 11:12 AM
Sure you can.. Lure the villain to Manaan or else a place with a lot of water and when the smart fellow is immersed knee deep and tries his Force Lightning mojo simply use Force Jump.. his muscles will probably contract so much barring any empty death oaths.. unless he knows Force Drain too of course, in which case you're screwed anyway.. but then the main problem won't be lightning any more..

Talya
2008-05-26, 02:53 PM
That'll come in handy..

Luckily, most players in my group have some if not a lot of GM experience, so if we find something hard to implement, we either find how it should work, or come up with something fair for everyone.. First thing that came to my mind was to have it regenerate a couple of boxes depending on wisdom score with a minimum for one in a few hours or so..

Force Point Recovery is far more basic than that. You can take force point recovery as many times as you like (within the "you get a total of 5 force techniques in 10 levels" limitation.) Each time you take it, you will from that point forward be able to use a single force point in an encounter and get it back when the encounter is finished. (So if you take it 5 times, you can spend 5 force points in the encounter and get them all back at the end.) Of course, any you spend beyond that amount are lost forever. But you could never actually start an encounter with fewer force points than the number of times you've chosen force point recovery.

Pandabear
2008-05-27, 08:52 AM
I've read up on the rules of that yesterday.. It's still a bit contra-intuitive, but one can get used to it I think..

One thing I feel though, is that Sith or Dark Jedi in general seem a bit nerfed.. I personally think that since neither side of the Force should be stronger, you shouldn't inherently punish Dark Side followers by the system itself. The GM can do that himself by making 'bad luck events' if he feels he must punish the players for any reason. The 'good guy' Jedi in the stories didn't win because the Dark Jedi were less powerful, their own attitude saw to that..

Jack Zander
2008-05-27, 12:07 PM
I've read up on the rules of that yesterday.. It's still a bit contra-intuitive, but one can get used to it I think..

One thing I feel though, is that Sith or Dark Jedi in general seem a bit nerfed.. I personally think that since neither side of the Force should be stronger, you shouldn't inherently punish Dark Side followers by the system itself. The GM can do that himself by making 'bad luck events' if he feels he must punish the players for any reason. The 'good guy' Jedi in the stories didn't win because the Dark Jedi were less powerful, their own attitude saw to that..

Where is this nerfage coming from? The Dark Side has wayyy better Force Powers.

Farmer42
2008-05-27, 12:09 PM
I've read up on the rules of that yesterday.. It's still a bit contra-intuitive, but one can get used to it I think..

One thing I feel though, is that Sith or Dark Jedi in general seem a bit nerfed.. I personally think that since neither side of the Force should be stronger, you shouldn't inherently punish Dark Side followers by the system itself. The GM can do that himself by making 'bad luck events' if he feels he must punish the players for any reason. The 'good guy' Jedi in the stories didn't win because the Dark Jedi were less powerful, their own attitude saw to that..

You should keep in mind that the way the system itself is written, the Darksiders are GM controlled characters. it says it in the rulebook, they've said it on the forums, and Rodney said it on the Order 66 Podcast.

PnP Fan
2008-05-27, 12:59 PM
PDF files don't fall apart with age. ;)

And yes, you can find West End Games SW peer-to-peer.

Fair enough. Though I generally prefer to avoid P2P, if I can. And usually wouldn't recommend downloading a book, since that sort of thing usually violates copyright/IP laws. Though, since the book is no longer in publication, I can't see what the harm would be (though I'm not up on that sort of thing.) Not trying to "take the moral high ground", or brow beat anyone. I just don't bother.

Attilargh
2008-05-27, 01:15 PM
Note to everybody: Mesh tape is made of awesome and win. Last session, my players used it as a tightrope to get over a pit, and shortly after that to fish out the poor Quarren who lost his balance.

Never start playing without it.

Jack Zander
2008-05-27, 01:38 PM
Note to everybody: Mesh tape is made of awesome and win. Last session, my players used it as a tightrope to get over a pit, and shortly after that to fish out the poor Quarren who lost his balance.

Never start playing without it.

Never play any RPG that doesn't have duct tape as a buy-able item.

Talya
2008-05-27, 02:30 PM
Fair enough. Though I generally prefer to avoid P2P, if I can. And usually wouldn't recommend downloading a book, since that sort of thing usually violates copyright/IP laws. Though, since the book is no longer in publication, I can't see what the harm would be (though I'm not up on that sort of thing.) Not trying to "take the moral high ground", or brow beat anyone. I just don't bother.

I no longer believe in paper. :)

Pandabear
2008-05-28, 03:55 AM
Where is this nerfage coming from? The Dark Side has wayyy better Force Powers.

Apparently Dark Jedi aren't playable characters by design.. despite that people can fall to the Dark Side there seems to be the assumption that a player isn't capable of controlling his own faculties when his alignment changes or that he can't roleplay it.. to me, the whole deal with falling and the why of it represents the interesting part of SW roleplaying.. Why does one upholding belief in an ideal of justice, kindness, goodness, change his mind? How does it feel, when anger and fear makes you become the very monster you seek to defeat? What about the bond of friendship when master and student find themselves on opposite sides? The very realisation that one you used to trust with your life has become like a stranger.. Making characters weaker or taking control away from them doesn't feel right..


You should keep in mind that the way the system itself is written, the Darksiders are GM controlled characters. it says it in the rulebook, they've said it on the forums, and Rodney said it on the Order 66 Podcast.

Haven't read anything except the rulebook itself, and it still feels like an unnecessary limitation.. then again, a GM is always entitled to change things the way he likes until it becomes a game everyone agrees with..