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Hairb
2008-05-23, 06:46 AM
I was going through the Unearthed Arcana sections of d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org) and was pretty impressed with the bloodlines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) variant. As the campaign setting I'm working on is pretty low-magic, and has no races other than human, I thought introducing them would be a good way to give PC's a way of throwing around a little more magic, and they fit the setting pretty nicely anyway.

However, having seen the way some other UA material has had the hell 'sploited out of it (I'm looking at you, flaws!) I was a little reticent.

Has anyone used the bloodlines rules in a campaign before? How do they play? Do they need tweaking? Lemme know!

Yuki Akuma
2008-05-23, 06:53 AM
Don't use them with LA buy off rules.

Just... don't. Trust me.

Starsinger
2008-05-23, 06:54 AM
Don't use them with LA buy off rules.

Just... don't. Trust me.

Out of morbid curiosity, why not? Is it a really bad idea or a really gouda one? (I was half tempted to say gouda... and then edited it so I did.)

Hairb
2008-05-23, 06:56 AM
LA buyoff rules? Never heard of 'em.

Yuki Akuma
2008-05-23, 06:57 AM
"Getting something for nothing" doesn't strike you as cheesy?

Bloodlines are just about balanced due to the fact that you need to skip levels and can't get to level 20. With LA buy off, you can skip levels again... but then lose the LA, meaning that you get more XP than normal and catch up with your lost level, basically getting all those bloodline abilities for absolutely nothing in return.

Starsinger
2008-05-23, 06:57 AM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm There you are Hairb.

edit: Ahh, see I didn't think Bloodlines actually counted as LA.

Yuki Akuma
2008-05-23, 07:06 AM
Well, I'm not sure they do either. But! My advice still stands: don't use LA buyoff with them. It can only end in tears.

And to answer the actual question... Bloodlines are fine. They work to boost some classes (non-spellcasters, mostly) and don't work that well for spellcasters (you get spell levels later! Gasp!). If everyone has a bloodline, it's perfectly balanced as long as everyone has the same type of bloodline. Everyone has a Greater Bloodline? Great. Someone has a Lesser, someone doesn't have one and someone else has a Greater? Eeh...

Cheesegear
2008-05-23, 07:09 AM
I have used them in a Bloodlines-only campaign.


A bloodline level grants no increase in base attack bonus or base save bonuses, no hit points or skill points, and no class features. It counts as a normal class level (with no class skills) for the purpose of determining maximum skill ranks. Levels of bloodline never result in XP penalties for multiclass characters.

I think they're quite fair. As they're taken instead of class levels. And you don't get any skills - at all - aside from various +'s that the Bloodline-level might give you. And even then, a few of those are 'affinity' skills. So, skill points only go into those things. No choice.

Either everyone should have them, or no-one should. And yeah, don't allow LA'd races to remove their LA.

EDIT: No extra hit points either.

Hairb
2008-05-23, 07:11 AM
Cheers.
So Bloodlines used in isolation get the thumbs up?

Yuki Akuma
2008-05-23, 07:14 AM
When everyone uses the exact same optional rules, the party balance isn't changed one bit. Generally. The Fighter gets more useful and the Wizard doesn't outshine him as much, but it's moving in a more comfortable direction, so no big deal. :smallwink:

Cheesegear
2008-05-23, 07:15 AM
Cheers.
So Bloodlines used in isolation get the thumbs up?

From me they have the thumbs up as long as these three rules are in place
1. Everyone has Bloodlines.
2. Everyone has the same gradient of Bloodline (Minor, Intermediate, Major)
3. LA'd races aren't allowed to 'lose' their LA.

EDIT: On rule 1, everyone has the option to choose if they have a Bloodline or not - although, must comply with rule 2. As previously mentioned, Bloodlines aren't entirely beneficial to casters. If they don't want them, they don't have to have them.

Bender
2008-05-23, 07:37 AM
If everyone has a bloodline, and the same degree of bloodline, can't you just as well drop the bloodline levels?

Yuki Akuma
2008-05-23, 07:40 AM
No. No you cannot. Due to the way the CR system works and such.

Rutee
2008-05-23, 07:40 AM
No. No you cannot. Due to the way the CR system works and such.

You mean the part where it doesn't? :smallbiggrin:

Yuki Akuma
2008-05-23, 07:44 AM
You mean the part where it doesn't? :smallbiggrin:

...

Shush.

DementedFellow
2008-05-23, 11:01 AM
I never really saw the use in the bloodlines. To me the small little upgrades you might receive are not worth the loss in class abilities. And have fun slowing down your powerful PrCs.

Now if I am wrong in thinking this, then someone enlighten me. I am man enough to admit I was wrong, but I'm missing all the sparkly bits that seem so enticing.

Temp.
2008-05-23, 11:24 AM
Bloodlines can be abused through heavy prestige-classing and use of the "+3 effective levels to all classes" feature, but it will be pretty apparent when that happens; DMs shouldn't have much trouble regulating it. Drawing the line when it comes to ToB classes might be difficult, though.

And part of their appeal? Small goodies for free if your campaign doesn't break level 12.