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azalinthegreat
2008-05-23, 10:14 PM
Hey guys, I was hoping for a little advice. I'm DMing a game where the players have just finished up the main plot, killed off the bad guy they've been hunting for so long, and got a lot of XP and treasure in the process. Now they're 15th level and I'm looking to start a new plotline.

The last plot line really revolved around this one mage who cause the PCs all sorts of trouble. So I'm looking forward to a change. Instead of just one rogue guy, I want to work with some larger organization. Specifically, an organization made up of some evil race.

I just don't know what race to pick. Has anyone had any good experiences? I'm hoping for something a little more original than drow, something that the PCs might not be completely familiar with. It can still be from the monster manual, just not overused. Any ideas?

SilentNight
2008-05-23, 10:18 PM
Templates, templates, templates my friend. You don't need a super race, just make one yourself. Savage species is a good place to start. You could try beholders, or maybe githyanki. Do you have any of the other Monster Manuals?

Emperor Tippy
2008-05-23, 10:19 PM
Elan's are fun. Being's that don't die of old age are real fun as NPC's.

FlyMolo
2008-05-23, 10:27 PM
I second Elans. As an alternative, pick up Illithids. They're excellent evil races, come with fluff already, and have a low enough CR that you can apply templates or classes willy-nilly.

Or just have your regular organization, but throw the draconic template down on everything. That one's fun. Or insectile, or half-vampire. Something strictly thematic.

And I love thri-kreen, but they're excellent as baddies too. High LA races, that's the trick. Minotaurs, Dragons, etc. Dragons are good, because there's 3 races, 2 templates, and 3 classes associated with them. Oh how the flavor fits.

azalinthegreat
2008-05-23, 10:31 PM
Yeah, I'm always fond of the old immortality thing. It makes for some real interesting characters, especially if they're just willing to "wait it out" so to speak.

What I'm really looking for is something powerful and weird, but not overpowered. So they'll still have enough room for class levels, allowing me to make a bunch of unique ones that can be killed off pretty quickly. So templates work too I suppose. Are there any cool templates that you'd suggest?

I have the first two monster manuals, I never really bothered with the others. Are they any good?

Cuddly
2008-05-23, 10:34 PM
Illithids might be what you want, since you could stat out their minions to be really just about anything, and mind flayers get what, 6 to 12 levels of a class before they're equal to the party's CR?

Emperor Tippy
2008-05-23, 10:39 PM
Yeah, I'm always fond of the old immortality thing. It makes for some real interesting characters, especially if they're just willing to "wait it out" so to speak.

What I'm really looking for is something powerful and weird, but not overpowered. So they'll still have enough room for class levels, allowing me to make a bunch of unique ones that can be killed off pretty quickly. So templates work too I suppose. Are there any cool templates that you'd suggest?
Go with Elan's. You can give them whatever classes you feel like, you can get suitable long term plans (why yes we have been planning to take over the world for the 50,000 years), they can pass as human, and if you want powerful and new just make a bunch of them psions but use the psionics is different variant.


I have the first two monster manuals, I never really bothered with the others. Are they any good?
I like the 3rd one the best.

azalinthegreat
2008-05-23, 10:48 PM
Hmm...a lot of people have suggested Elans. Does anyone know where I could find a description about them?

de-trick
2008-05-23, 10:52 PM
id actully go with a demon or devil can always have fun with the ultimate evil:smalltongue: or a were-something

SilentNight
2008-05-23, 10:54 PM
Hmm...a lot of people have suggested Elans. Does anyone know where I could find a description about them?

They're in the psionics handbook. If you have Sandstorm I recommend Marruspawn as well.

monty
2008-05-23, 10:55 PM
A goblin. A goblin druid. Deceptively powerful.

Lorien077
2008-05-23, 11:29 PM
If you want to go "nefarious big race based organization" without using drow, try Yuanti. If they work for your game at all they're sinister, and have multiple types, some visibly monstrous and others that almost look human.

monty
2008-05-23, 11:32 PM
If you want to go "nefarious big race based organization" without using drow, try Yuanti. If they work for your game at all they're sinister, and have multiple types, some visibly monstrous and others that almost look human.

Actually, that gives me a better idea: Sarrukhs. (Did I spell that right? I can never remember.) That way, if your players annoy you, you can just throw Pun-Pun at them and be able to justify it in the story.

azalinthegreat
2008-05-23, 11:48 PM
Haha, thanks anyways, but I don't think that I'll be doing anything with Pun Pun. I always just rule that Sarrukhs don't exist in whatever world I'm playing in. Otherwise Pun Pun would have taken over the world by now, haha.

Right now, I think I'm leaning more towards the Yuanti, just because they aren't used that often, and they have a bunch of cool abilities and subclasses. I'm still open minded though, so if anyone has another idea, or thinks that I might be ignoring a good idea that's already been suggested, I'd love to hear it.

bosssmiley
2008-05-24, 05:04 AM
Classic high level BBEG races: Yuan-Ti, Illithids, Aboleths, Sahuagin, Kopru, Cloakers, evil Nagas, Rakshasa, anything with the lich or vampire templates (IIRC there are a whole race of evil spellcasting manta-ray vampires in the Fiend Folio).

Heck, get the Birthright "Blood Enemies" expansion from paizo.com for some bizarre and unique high level D&D enemies with fantastic built-in backstories. The Chimera (an immortality experiment gone horribly wrong), The Lamia, The Basilisk (living incarnation of poisonous hate) and The Hydra (god-warped crocodile that derives additional power - and heads - from its kills) are all personal favourites.

Adumbration
2008-05-24, 05:14 AM
My suggestion would be nagas, if just for a change. A ha-naga would make a good crime-boss, and if need be, an early epic-level bbeg. The other nagas work well as underlings.

DrowVampyre
2008-05-24, 05:52 AM
Githyanki work great as a large evil organization type thing. The whole "invading the prime material with our astral battleships" thing is just...fun.

azalinthegreat
2008-05-24, 07:15 AM
Oooo...nagas. I completely forgot about them. That might be cool. I never really gave them much attention before, and with their different varieties it might make a really cool organization.

I also like the idea of aboleths, just because I bought the "Lords of Madness" book and have been looking for an excuse to use it. On the other hand, I don't really think that I'm looking for a water adventure...

KillianHawkeye
2008-05-24, 07:28 AM
I put my vote in for Illithids, Githyanki, Yugoloths, Rakshasa, or Yuan-ti. They're all relatively iconic, but not used as often as dragons or Drow or Demons & Devils. I know at least my group uses the Drow way too much.

mostlyharmful
2008-05-24, 07:42 AM
Doppelgangers with class levels are great fun.:smallwink: