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Lorien077
2008-05-23, 11:40 PM
First of all, please excuse me if I posted this in the wrong place.

I'll be completely honest; the friend of mine who took over another friend's Eberron game has been driving me nuts. He gives generous amounts of bonus Exp to those who created slapstick comedy moments in game, but doesn't award any to those who RP or stay true to their character. But what has me really mad is he took a previous character of mine, and decided to put her in the midst of one of his infamous battles... when I wasn't even in the session. He didn't ask, he didn't even warn me.
Also, I tried to run a game, and specifically said no evil alignments; this was to be a game for heroes and they would eventually be responsible for preventing a great evil. This is my first time DMing and I had high hopes for it. So he decides to run a drow wizard of CN alignment. (This was an all mage game). She quickly morphs into an evil alignment, after menacing innocent townsfolk, bullying her fellow party members, and tormenting the captured NPC the party had been asked to search for and save. Naturally that character met a rather fatal end, but he's creating a new one... which in the process of he tried to take a feat from BoED as a "CN" character (the feat required being good aligned)
So am I being overly sensitive on the issue? Pretty much every PC he's built either is a bully, or modeled after a popular character. (such as Gir) I really don't want to game with him anymore, but I stink at confrontation and don't want to tell him he's no longer welcome in my game. Help? (And sorry for the text wall)

Lycan 01
2008-05-23, 11:42 PM
Outline the problems you have with him, and tell him to fix them. Inform him that his disobeying of rules is dragging the quality of everyone's gaming experience down, and that he needs to fix that. And tell him that unless he has your permission, he can't screw with your characters and stuff.

Seffbasilisk
2008-05-23, 11:51 PM
I'm also not sure where this goes, but I'll try to help as much as I can.

One thing I would suggest, is confronting him. If you're not good at dealing with those, a good trick is to say something along the lines of "I've got a lot to tell you, so please just be quiet and listen to it all before you respond, Ok?" Then tell him exactly what's bugging you, and WHY. For instance, let him know that you're trying to play a 'Heros' game, not a game for bullies or pop culture references. Try to refrain from apologizing unless you've truely got something to apologize for. I know it's a temptation to try to just 'take it back' and apologize and just back away and not deal with it, but you've got to explain it to him or nothing will change.

I've tried to run an Non-Evil campaign as well, and as such have specifically forbidden Neutral alignments except from those who've proven to me that they can handle it (specifically one guy I know, and specifically banning another I know.) One thing can be to let them know that the second they turn Evil, they turn into NPCs. Perhaps make a 'Point' alignment system. Each 'strike' they get, they get a closer to Evil, and at the end of each session you erase a certain number of strikes as you see that they did over the course of it. Because being Evil can earth itself in lots of little things, while truely being Good requires being it for the long haul.

If you like DMing, I strongly suggest you try to work to get over your fear of confrontation, as that can ruin a game very quickly with one player running roughshod over your game.

That said, running a game of your own after not being satisfied with another's playstyle, if you can handle DMing, IS a good idea. Try to make the game all that you would want of a game, and hopefully after a campaign or two, the other players will see such, and want to continue in the vein as well.

I don't think you're being over sensative, I think you're feeling justifiably put-upon, and it's good you're trying to deal with it.

Sorry if this isn't enough, but if my advice seems helpful, and you need help in the future, send me a PM, and generally within 24 hours or less you'll have a reply. And don't apologize for the block of text either. You needed to lay out the information (and I've been known to prattle on for easily four times that length.)

azalinthegreat
2008-05-23, 11:54 PM
I'm personally a fan of some in-game punishment. If he turns evil, I like the have the main villain, who is undoubtably more powerful than he is, bully him a little bit. In theory, it should take the whole group to take the big bad down, so this character alone probably stands next to no chance.

I've also found that the most effective way to get a point across is not to kill the offending character. At least not right away. I'd have him imprisoned, drugged, or cursed in some way. That way, the player doesn't just say "Oh well, time to make a new character." He actually has to live with the consequences of his actions. So, for example, if he's imprisoned, that means he'll miss out on a lot of playing and XP. If that doesn't teach him a lesson (for example, peasents are not for barbequing) I don't really think there's much that will.

Talyn
2008-05-23, 11:57 PM
I know it's tough, but "you aren't welcome if you can't play by the rules" is probably the best way to go.

For your first example, I think I'll ahve to disagree with Lycan - when he's running the game, there is little you can do. The GM does most of the work, and he or she gets to decide the tone of the game and even what characters are present - you can certainly ask him not to throw in a beloved PC without your permission, but you can't demand it of him. As for the tone (comedy being rewarded instead of solid character development), well, different GMs have different game types - if everyone else is having fun, then you aren't in a position to demand he change. I'd recommend sitting down and talking to him one-on-one, explaining your position; if he accepts it and is willing to work with you, great. If not, say that you aren't interested in gaming when he runs the game. Don't make it personal, though - D&D is not worth losing a friendship over. Just explain that your playing style doesn't mesh with his game-running style, and that you are still interested in maintaining a social relationship. I would recommend that you continue to hang out in a non-game context (movies, sports, whatever). If you aren't friends, then just politely take your leave until someone else takes over the game.

In your second example, you, as the person running the game, can set the tone. While some people would recommend using "in-character" punishments to the player whose character isn't integrating with the plot (i.e. killing or humiliating the character every chance you get until the player gets the idea), I disagree with this approach. I believe that D&D is, at heart, a cooperative game betweem GMs and players - once again, speaking privately with a problem player, or, if that makes you uncomfortable, sitting everyone down with a list of campaign guidelines is probably the best solution.

Now, cooperative gaming is a two-way street. Try and find out what this problem player wants out of the game - by your description, it sounds like he wants to act out power fantasies with a dangerous, badass character. That is not wrong. Really, it's not. Our lives often make us feel powerless, and creating aggressive, in-your-face characters can be a harmless diversion. If the player is willing to compromise - and says so when you speak with him out of character - be sure to let him get some of what he wants. Maybe make some puny evil minions he can intimidate, or have the villagers gush over how dangerous and badass his character is.

If he doesn't want to work with you, then that's that: tell him he isn't invited to your games. Again, I'll repeat that an RPG isn't worth losing a friendship, so tread as lightly as necessary, but if it's your game and he isn't willing to work with you, then he will continue to be disruptive and it will hinder everybody's fun.

azalinthegreat
2008-05-24, 12:27 AM
I see where you're coming from Talyn, certainly we'd like to work out any issues we have with players if at all possible. And sometimes that works very well. However, I'm given the impression that in this case, the player will not be entirely reasonable. I get the impression that he kind of likes to get around the rules, and I've had a few players like that myself. I just find that the best way to deal with problems like this is to teach them that their actions have consequences. I am of the firm belief that sometimes players need to be reminded that they are not the absolute most powerful people out there.

Also, I believe that this way of dealing with this sort of player is more diplomatic. It gives the feel of freedom, but warns the player not to get carried away. It's kind of like saying "Sure, you can be evil. But that means that a bunch of paladins are going to be on your tail, oh, and that nice lady you murdered had a powerful sorcerer cousin."

But that's just my thought. I could certainly see out-of-game talks working as well. This is just how I prefer to deal with this sort of thing.

Lorien077
2008-05-24, 12:27 AM
Lycan: Thanks for the advice.
Sessbasilisk: I started the game rather naive, but had already decided to implement the "alignment points" system. So I'm glad you think its a good idea (was worried it would be stupid/ annoy players)
Thanks so much for being so helpful. :)
azalinthegreat: The trouble is when the in game punishment for his character's actions came... he brushed it off, and thought it was lame. A good friend of mine suggested I keep this up but I think I'll just be turning evil characters into NPCs (unless the player can prove to me they're capable of playing the sneaky evil that goes along with "the good guys" in order to gain power or loot. I've seen it done well and can respect that.)
Talyn: To be honest people know how much effort I put into my PCs and their personalities, I just wish there was a way I could get him to actually care. But you are right, its his game. I'm just not going to suffer through it. -_-;; Fortunately I don't think he's the sort to take any of what I say to him about DnD personally, and once this fiasco is over I don't think things will change.
The real problem is I don't want to run his fantasy; I don't want to set up things for him to knock over, people to terrorize, and allow him to PK when it suits his whimsy. Its not fun for the other players, and has made me really hate DMing. I'm glad he is immersed enough in the game to let those instincts and desires out... but its rather harsh.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-05-24, 02:42 AM
Sever, sever!

... wait, this isn't an E/N thread on Something Awful, it's the D&D equivalent.

Yeah, as always, here are your reasonable options:

1. Talk to this person and sort it out. D&D is a cooperative game, blah blah, don't ruin it for everyone, blah blah.

2. If above fails, stop playing with this person. Either kick them out of the group, or leave and find a new group. It's tough, but if you're enough of a masochist to insist on subjecting yourself to things you don't like... well, you shouldn't be complaining about them, I guess.

Also, use paragraphs, since you clearly know walls of text are wrong.

Blanks
2008-05-24, 03:23 PM
A very important part of DMing, for me at least, is having an agreement beforehand on what we are playing. All players and the DM agrees what the style, level, mood and alignment is. In that way, if someone says "im changing alignment to evil" you can say: "no you are not, because we all agreed that we would play good aligned".
Something you have commited to yourself is much better than something you had forced upon you.