OOTS #559 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Kaelaroth]

And, once again, it is awesome. Thanks, Mr. Giant! :smallsmile:

[Murska]

Yeah. Nice update!

[Wolfman42666]

"...ta smack ya upside the head!"
Classic, like it especially how not only is Elan still ignorant of what's going on, but how he still doesn't know who therkla is.:smallbiggrin:

[T-O-E]

Wow, I really love this one.

[Querzis]

Oh god Elan, how can it be possible to be that stupid:smallsigh:.

Anyway, Elan and Therkla are getting along just fine. I wonder if she already done her Heel face turn or if she'll actually try to explain things to Kubota.

[Pronounceable]

Comparative theology indeed.

[Mordokai]

Somebody please smack Elan around the head really hard! He's so stupid it's not even funny anymore.

But of course, that's just me.

[Duke]

The opening lines are great. I bet she can't wait to get him to forsake his pants "whenever possible."

[Grim Greyscale]

Anyway, Elan and Therkla are getting along just fine. I wonder if she already done her Heel face turn or if she'll actually try to explain things to Kubota.

I think this is it. She likes Elan too much to have to continually try to kill him, and there'll be no way out of it EVENTUALLY if she sticks with Kubota.

[Emperor Demonking]

I laughed so hard, the first lines cwere great.

[SPoD]

Somebody please smack Elan around the head really hard! He's so stupid it's not even funny anymore.

But of course, that's just me.

I don't know, on the scale of stupid things Elan has done, grabbing an object that someone stole from you while you were fleeing for your life from their village barely even registers. I mean, he started running away BEFORE the dispel magic, so he presumably grabbed Banjo then, when orcs were still attacking him. It seems pretty reasonable to grab your puppet on the way out in that situation.

[Aethir]

Fantastic comic as always Giant.

I wonder how Kubota is going to take this news though.

[Yendor]

Qarr's gonna tell teacher!

And did he screw up big time by openly mentioning Kubota? Oh, and the regicide thing. This won't end well for Mustache Lad (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0414.html).

[warmachine]

"Wait, why us attack?"

"Crong not privvy to rationale behind command decisions."


That made me laugh.

[Lissou]

Aaand they're back to sqaure one :P
At least they have Therkla and Lien with them right now... So I guess it's an improvement.

[Eric]

Look at that,
Look at that!
And he aint wearing no clothes!

And so we have a new anthem for Elan..!

[Thufir]

OK, I actually came here to rant about having to leave for an exam in... 35 minutes (Yes, I have an exam on saturday. Hence the ranting), but lo! There was an update! And I feel considerably better now. Praise Banjo!

[teratorn]

Elan + Therkla, sigh it won't happen... damn you Haley.

[Haruspex]

To be honest, I don't expect Elan to leave Banjo regardless of the circumstances. Anyway as someone pointed out he probably picked the puppet before the dispel.

Glad to see that they completed their mission and have a new fwiend.

[Elder Tsofu]

Hehe, nice one - I suspect we'll get a huge battle between the orcs and the warriors from azure city in a not too distant future. :)

[nosignal]

Does Durkon always use "they're" instead of "their"?

[rosebud]

I'm a bit disappointed. Banjo really would have benefited from some mass group worship. Surely they would have taken care of them for the interim. He might have even helped Elan with the greater cause once he attained more powers.

[Victor Thorian]

I wonder when banjo will become a god worshipped by billions!

[Fsi-Dib]

I'm waiting for Durkon to prepare Fox's Cunning and Owl's Wisdom and cast them on Elan. Maybe then they might address Elan with some coherence.

[otakuryoga]

and so we end this comic on the same note with which we began this arc....
RUN FOR YOUR LIVES...ANGRY ORCEN HORDE ON THE RAMPAGE!!!!

[HUMVEE Driver]

I can't believe it... very cool.

[otakuryoga]

I wonder when banjo will become a god worshipped by billions!
well...how many forum members do we already have? :smallyuk:

[Kato]

Hehe... Therkla changed sides very nice twist ^^ Might be interesting...
Also, the 'back to the beginning' arc-symmetry's nice.
And of course Elan's ability to get them into trouble just for the sake of Banjo.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Do you ever get that feeling of Deja Vu?

[ref]

Do you ever get that feeling of Deja Vu

Hadn't you asked before? :smallwink: :smallcool:

[St.Sinner]

"pants should be forsaken whenever possible". Naughty, naughty Therkla.

[Ironlich]

Wow, now Therkla have switched side, probably permanently. There is no way she can go back to kubota now. I wonder how this will unfold when she meets haley...

[stsasser]

Elan + Therkla, sigh it won't happen... damn you Haley.

Ah, but Belkar and Therkla will make the cutest couple ever...

[dish]

Very funny - especially Cong.

I am so glad that Therkla appears to have effortlessly changed sides.

[Daryk]

Thank you, sir, for providing an entertaining comic on a day when most other authors are resorting to filler, or simply taking a break.

[hajo]

I am so glad that Therkla appears to have effortlessly changed sides.
Right now, she has 'only' rescued Elan. Maybe she also wants a shuttle back to the fleet.
If she really changed sides remains to be seen - but a ninja would make a nice addition to the team :smallamused:

[the_tick_rules]

elan's lucky he's amusing. His humor is the only reason he's alive. So they can see their own text boxes? must be distracting.

[J.Gellert]

Elan used to be fun, but recently he's just plain stupid... After this comic, his only excuse is that he is the comic relief, therefore no one will actually die on his account. No one on the good side, at least.

I'd like to see him joke around about getting into trouble after Lien or Belkar takes a crude orc axe in the back :smalltongue:

[Trizap]

I just like how it was so it all just gone back to the orcs chasing them out of the jungle......

but I don't think they will stop this time, after all, Elan has their god in his hand......

[SteveDJ]

Elan + Therkla, sigh it won't happen... damn you Haley.

Well, what about this possibility:

3-way :smallwink:

Hey, I'm sure a Dashing Swordsman could pull it off. :smallbiggrin:

[Kanthalion]

Two things:

1. I think Therkla has only changed sides until either Haley and Elan are rejoined or Elan refuses Therkla's advances because of Haley.

2. What spell was Durkon casting on Daigo in panel 2? I mean I'm pretty sure is is a buff of some sort, but beyond that I am quite curious.

edit: Nevermind on point two. I just went back to previous comic and realized he was healing the party.

[Mauve Shirt]

:smallbiggrin:

I am concerned about the Therkla and Haley clash. I think Elan will stay loyal to Haley, but what will Therkla do?

[SteveMB]

The opening lines are great. I bet she can't wait to get him to forsake his pants "whenever possible."
"Banjo decrees that for his prophet, the modifiers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0027.html) for Cat's Grace and lack of clothing encumbrance shall stack....

(Therkla's reaction: :smallbiggrin:)
(Others' reaction: :smalleek:)

[Yendor]

"Banjo decrees that for his prophet, the modifiers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0027.html) for Cat's Grace and lack of clothing encumbrance shall stack....
:elan: Woooooo! I'm invisible!

[Caractacus]

hajo reckons a ninja would make a nice addition to the party, but wouldn't she fill just about all of the roles that Haley fills currently - in fact, ALL of them?

Does anybody else feel that there's a future for Therkla inside the party? Surely she HAS to stay with Kubota and Qarr as otherwise they would have almost no role left...

She can't really join the Linear Guild as they already HAVE a Haley counterpart who seems unlikely to be leaving soon

So what is the future for Therkla? :smallconfused:

[Faramir]

"You're the girl who vanished mysteriously with a loud "sploosh!" noise and a spray of water."

My favorite line in a very funny strip. Having read the whole sequence (as opposed to one at a time) these work really well together.

[Trizap]

hajo reckons a ninja would make a nice addition to the party, but wouldn't she fill just about all of the roles that Haley fills currently - in fact, ALL of them?

Does anybody else feel that there's a future for Therkla inside the party? Surely she HAS to stay with Kubota and Qarr as otherwise they would have almost no role left...

She can't really join the Linear Guild as they already HAVE a Haley counterpart who seems unlikely to be leaving soon

So what is the future for Therkla? :smallconfused:

.........yea, she has great potential to be a PC.......or maybe there will be a love triangle storyline between Elan, Therkla and Haley....

[HOLEkevin]

Poor Crong. He just doesn't have the answers.

I am enjoying hatin' on that mean ol' imp! He's such a monkey wrench! I hope he stays around just long enough to make his comeuppance really give us reason to cheer.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Well, well.. a few thoughs:

1. Giant is toying with us, about the "Black bubble with red speech". Remember how we were all anticipating a big bad new villain when we first saw said-speech bubble at the end of the previous story-arc?

2. I am.. disapointed at the plot holes. How did they managed to actually escape? How did Elan got his rapier?

[Evil DM Mark3]

maybe there will be a love triangle storyline between Elan, Therkla and Haley....

We know where that will end up. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MurderTheHypotenuse)

[Hiraghm]

:smalleek:
Haley > Therkla.

I keep hoping Therkla will get run over by a bus.

(I didn't like Shrek, either, go figure).

I wish they would stop confusing me though;
Belkar is a *ranger*, yet he carries knives, doesn't use a bow, and is rather untrustworthy.

Haley is a *rogue*, is fairly morally upright, uses a bow, doesn't use a knife.

Seems to me their two classes are backwards.

Maybe Varsuvius will sacrifice Therkla to cast a spell to summon Haley, Belkar and Roy's body to them so that the OoTS can be back together and we can get on with the story... hope so.

[Logalmier]

Sweeeet, I love the first line, and the "You're the girl who vanished with a sploosh and a large spray of water!"

Therkla > Haley :smallwink:

[teratorn]

Therkla > Haley :smallwink:

And after those lines about the pants it's obvious they were made for each other.

[Tobimaro]

Gives a new twist on the argument "My god is bigger than your god." :smallsmile:

And I loved the discussion between the chief and the shaman in the second to last panel.

[silvadel]

Therkla's in real trouble -- but remember a bard's motto...

When you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.....

[The Gremlin]

I just like how it was so it all just gone back to the orcs chasing them out of the jungle......

but I don't think they will stop this time, after all, Elan has their god in his hand......

...
...poor turtle.

[The Extinguisher]

I knew it. I figured by the end of this, it would end with them being chased by the orcs. Again.

[Solara]

Argh, now I'm just dying to know whether the others heard the words 'Kubota' and 'regicide'...

[Morgan Wick]

Haley is a *rogue*, is fairly morally upright, uses a bow, doesn't use a knife.

Pirate rogue. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0121.html)

I think we're in for a couple more strips with this group, at most, before switching again.

I wouldn't be shocked if Rich decided to swerve us all and have Elan accept Therkla's advances, partly out of being convinced Haley really is dead... just in time for her to turn out to be alive. Awk-ward! If he doesn't, I say he remains ignorant of them but Haley sure as hell won't be, and will spread rumors about Therkla being out to destroy the party despite having no way of knowing that.

And the choice of word "regicide" makes me wonder if we'll find someone DID hear it... although the idea that Kubota is planning to kill Hinjo isn't exactly new to the group. That he would be allied with an imp and a half-orc ninja assassin who's trying to be friends with Elan, however, IS new.

[Red XIV]

Qarr's gonna tell teacher!

And did he screw up big time by openly mentioning Kubota? Oh, and the regicide thing. This won't end well for Mustache Lad (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0414.html).
If Therkla's switching sides (and I don't see any way she can explain away her actions to Kubota now), it really doesn't matter.


I'm waiting for Durkon to prepare Fox's Cunning and Owl's Wisdom and cast them on Elan. Maybe then they might address Elan with some coherence.
But if Elan were smart, he wouldn't be Elan. Where would the humor value be in that?


I wouldn't be shocked if Rich decided to swerve us all and have Elan accept Therkla's advances, partly out of being convinced Haley really is dead... just in time for her to turn out to be alive. Awk-ward! If he doesn't, I say he remains ignorant of them but Haley sure as hell won't be, and will spread rumors about Therkla being out to destroy the party despite having no way of knowing that.

Elan refuses to even contemplate that Haley might be dead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0505.html), so my bet is on "obvious to Therkla's advances".

[pankake]

Great comic!


Now we have no doubts, this is most likely how they had to run the first time.







Although I do have a strange urge to listen to Iron Maiden from this strip

[factotum]

Trouble is, if people DID hear the imp's comments about regicide, they'd probably also have heard his comments directed at Therkla--which would not be likely to go down well with the good guys!

[WarriorTribble]

Elan deserves a spanking. I'm sure Therkla would be happy to oblige.

[Yendor]

Trouble is, if people DID hear the imp's comments about regicide, they'd probably also have heard his comments directed at Therkla--which would not be likely to go down well with the good guys!

Well, exactly. Not only has Kubota's plausible deniability been severely damaged, Therkla has been exposed as a conspirator. And Durkon, Lien and Daigo are not exactly in a generous mood. It'll be all she can do to save her own neck.

[Duke]

And the choice of word "regicide" makes me wonder if we'll find someone DID hear it... although the idea that Kubota is planning to kill Hinjo isn't exactly new to the group. That he would be allied with an imp and a half-orc ninja assassin who's trying to be friends with Elan, however, IS new.

Um, no, it isn't new. Not really. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0509.html)

[The Gremlin]

Argh, now I'm just dying to know whether the others heard the words 'Kubota' and 'regicide'...

I think they did, however Kubota can just pull out the same lame trick he used back in #503 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0503.html) :smallsigh:

[Kaolix]

Um, no, it isn't new. Not really. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0509.html)

If you notice the context in that post, they were saying it was new to the GROUP, which IS true - WE know about Qarr and Therkla, the party doesn't, other than 'the girl who disappeared with a sploosh' and 'an ominous red speech bubble'

Dunno about anyone else, but I really like the way the plot is developing with regards to Therkla, and I find myself rooting for her more than a little bit :smallsmile:. Yet I do not expect Elan and Haley to be splitting up any time soon. I'm certainly looking forward to the conflict that arises from Therkla's presence. Can't wait for the return of Haley, and with Roy still dead, this could become yet another fracture in the bonds that hold the party together.

This period of the plot, while slow in and of itself, certainly seems to be setting us up for some interesting character development in the near/mid future.

[holywhippet]

Two thoughts:

a) Why is Lien running away now? I thought it was against her paladin code of conduct. Maybe the experience of getting tied up gave her a level divisible by 4 and she put her new stat point into intelligence (or should it be wisdom?).

b) I wonder what Therkla's thoughts on Nale are or will be? If her only interest in Elan is his appearance then Nale is essentially identical (aside from the goatee).

[Duke]

If you notice the context in that post, they were saying it was new to the GROUP, which IS true - WE know about Qarr and Therkla, the party doesn't, other than 'the girl who disappeared with a sploosh' and 'an ominous red speech bubble'

Ah...

Thanks for the clarification.

[Querzis]

Well, what about this possibility:

3-way :smallwink:

Hey, I'm sure a Dashing Swordsman could pull it off. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah I mean, he is supposed to get a happy ending after all.:smallwink: Anyway, I dont think Haley latent bisexuality exist for nothing.:smallbiggrin:

But yes holywhippet, thats basically what I thought, Therkla is Linear Guild material. It would be easy for Nale to charm her. Beside, just think about all the funny jokes about Thog who fear pretty half-orc girl who got cooties. Anyway, unlike Haley, I'm sure Sabine doesnt mind 3-way at all.

[Penquin47]

And Sabine can always shift to being Celia's evil opposite... they're outsiders, in a romantic relationship with the team's leader, Sabine enjoys mass murder and carnage while Celia's a pacifist.

See? It totally works!

[Caractacus]

And Sabine can always shift to being Celia's evil opposite... they're outsiders, in a romantic relationship with the team's leader, Sabine enjoys mass murder and carnage while Celia's a pacifist.

See? It totally works!

It DOES totally work.

[I would have spoilered it...:smallsmile:]

But it doesn't change its TOTALLY WORKINGNESS! :smallcool:

[Quorothorn]

Elan + Therkla, sigh it won't happen... damn you Haley.

Infidel (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DieForOurShip). :smallwink:


This was a good one, though I found myself seriously wanting to smack Elan upside the head at the end. Too bad clerics don't have Mage Hand on their spell list...

[Red XIV]

Why is Lien running away now? I thought it was against her paladin code of conduct. Maybe the experience of getting tied up gave her a level divisible by 4 and she put her new stat point into intelligence (or should it be wisdom?).
My impression was that she didn't run before because paladins have no fear (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0372.html). This time, well, the mission's over, and if she did hear Qarr's comments about killing Hinjo, then she has a much more important duty to attend to.

[lord of kobolds]

Banjo is mightier than thor!!!! I didn't even capitalize thor to emphasize that point.

[The Gremlin]

Banjo is mightier than thor!!!! I didn't even capitalize thor to emphasize that point.

No, the puny Banjo is an incompetent fool.
Banjullu will rule the world!

[rman]

Elan is now a swashbuckler. Having the female npc's of various types fall for him comes with kit. It is likely a charisma roll of some sort. (think three musketeers)

Elan has spent way to many points in 4th wall knowledge.

On paladin fight ethics, consider,
A paladin should stand and fight hororably but if others would die to rescue the paladin then the paladin should retreat to save the others.

[Mars]

I'm finding OOTS really boring at the moment. Nothing is happening. All these irrelevant plots and side stories. I'm sure it'll all come together in the year 2012 and we'll all think how great and awesome rich is, but at the moment it is boring and it's turning into a Dragonball Z fight.

Next week: Goku powers up some more

[Selene]

Anyway, unlike Haley, I'm sure Sabine doesnt mind 3-way at all.

Sabine would probably be all for it. But Therkla seems more like a "want him all to myself" sort of girl.

[Ptorquemada]

Belkar is a *ranger*, yet he carries knives, doesn't use a bow, and is rather untrustworthy.

Haley is a *rogue*, is fairly morally upright, uses a bow, doesn't use a knife.


Belkar's actual alignment is Psychotic Munchkin. I'm guessing he took ranger mainly as a cheap way to get dual wield ability. His general un-ranger-ness has been commented on in several of the strips. However, he's at least somewhat trustworthy in the sense that he doesn't try to hide any of this.

Haley, on the other hand, used to be a lot less "morally upright" than she is now. If you go back and read the first online strips, she's very much a rogue. She started as essentially True Neutral but has since drifted fairly far north and maybe even a little west on the alignment chart because a) she's had to take over Roy's role and b) there really haven't been that many opportunities for her to be larcenous recently. Once Roy is raised I expect she'll slip back towards the center.

[factotum]

Nice theory, except that Haley herself said she was Chaotic Good (ish) back in strip #393, long before Roy's leadership was removed. She was also the only one in the party who really wanted to help the dirt farmers. Looking back on the early strips, the only thing she did that I can see makes it worth calling her Neutral was robbing the rest of the party (twice), but since we know she's gathering money to help rescue her father, I think we can cut her a bit of slack for that, right?

[teratorn]

Infidel (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DieForOurShip). :smallwink:

Nah, Haley is my favorite character, it's just that Elan and Therkla make an awesome couple.

[Blanth]

... but at the moment it is boring and it's turning into a Dragonball Z fight.

Next week: Goku powers up some more

I'll save you a weeks worth of strips then:

Back on the boat...
Durkon: Ach. V you've been trying ta powering up way too much!
V: Silence! I must master my energies!
*increases power*
Hinjo: His power! It's... It's...
Durkon: Aye... OVER FIVE THOUSAND!!!
Elan: I made sandwiches!

[Yoritomo Himeko]

I'm finding OOTS really boring at the moment. Nothing is happening. All these irrelevant plots and side stories. I'm sure it'll all come together in the year 2012 and we'll all think how great and awesome rich is, but at the moment it is boring and it's turning into a Dragonball Z fight.

Next week: Goku powers up some more

Well, according to the recent pattern, there should only be one more strip before we go back to Haley.

While I've appreciated the much lighter tone of the recent arcs, I'm hoping the party gets reunited after the next arc.

I'm tired of all these extra characters, except for O-chul. They're weighing the story down.

[orrion]

To paraphrase someone else on these forums, Mars and Yori:

You disliking the comic isn't going to make it any less awesome for the rest of us.

Heck, if you don't like where the comic's heading and what it's doing, why are you still reading it? Go away for several months, then come back and skip the 75 strips you didn't like.

But I have a feeling neither of you are actually going to do that, so.. quit complaining and enjoy the strip.

Comparing this comic strip to DBZ is also pretty stupid.

[Ariko]

I just like how it was so it all just gone back to the orcs chasing them out of the jungle......

but I don't think they will stop this time, after all, Elan has their god in his hand......

Ya know..technicly, Elan has his hand in their god.:smallwink:

[Yoritomo Himeko]

To paraphrase someone else on these forums, Mars and Yori:

You disliking the comic isn't going to make it any less awesome for the rest of us.

Heck, if you don't like where the comic's heading and what it's doing, why are you still reading it? Go away for several months, then come back and skip the 75 strips you didn't like.

But I have a feeling neither of you are actually going to do that, so.. quit complaining and enjoy the strip.

Comparing this comic strip to DBZ is also pretty stupid.

Um, I didn't mean I don't like the strip, I was just saying that I didn't like it when the secondary characters take time away from the core six, (Elan, Roy, Haley).

I actually like this arc, it was a great change of pace from the depressing ones.

I enjoy the strip very much. I'll enjoy it more when the OOTS are reunited.

[Blaznak]

And if the turtle shows up, we are right back to where we started... Hee hee!
Later

[krossbow]

into a Dragonball Z fight.

Next week: Goku powers up some more




You know, an interesting point is the sorting algorithm of evil in OotS. Throughout the series, they've basically been fighting the same antagonists, with no real discernible gains on them. In fact, it seems to have gotten HARDER.

The linear guild does this well, in that it got a druid who might be a twink in their ranks and used strategy rather than brute force (which failed horribly in their first encounter), thus explaining why it was such a harder fight than previously (hell, when the plan fell apart and they were deprived of their druid they got flat out waffle-stomped)

However, Xycon and redcloak are another issue. Despite being defeated by the stick in their first encounter with no fatalities, they seem to have risen to nigh unbeatable levels in the sticks perception, with no real explanation, even though the stick has leveled up quite a bit. They seem to have drawn power purely from plot needs.






(though I realize the point was the lack of plot movement, not powering up) On the issue of training till your just strong enough to beat the bad guys...
Elan's dashing swordsman class fits this cliche pretty well. Can't wait to see how he acts with ANOTHER level in it.

[Mars]

To paraphrase someone else on these forums, Mars and Yori:

You disliking the comic isn't going to make it any less awesome for the rest of us.

Heck, if you don't like where the comic's heading and what it's doing, why are you still reading it? Go away for several months, then come back and skip the 75 strips you didn't like.

But I have a feeling neither of you are actually going to do that, so.. quit complaining and enjoy the strip.

Comparing this comic strip to DBZ is also pretty stupid.

To criticize something is to mean you have an interest in the subject. So for me to stop complaining or anyone else would mean I would have to stop caring about the strip.

I also never stated that someone else might not enjoy the strip, I was merely posting what I felt about the strip. It is exactly the same when someone says, God I love O'Chul.

Baka

[DrivinAllNight]

This comic was a great way to come back to the beginning of the island arc. Can't wait to see how Therkla adapts to being on the good side now that she can be easily outed by the Imp. And Elan is bound by the Bard charter to seduce female baddies, and being a swashbuckler is a great bonus too. But either way, hopefully Therkla stays with the party or at least the good side. And hopefully we'll get back to Roy or Haley soon as well.

[factotum]

They only defeated Xykon in their first encounter through sheer happenstance--a combination of Xykon holding back at first because he thought they could help him open the gate, Roy's berserker rage, and Xykon being destroyed by being thrown into the one object in the throne room that could hurt him. I suspect Xykon seriously underestimated his opponents and didn't go all out, too.

Second time round the OotS were just speedbumps in his way and he dealt with them as he would any other such problem--e.g. by flattening it until it goes away!

[pankake]

This makes you wonder if there's much hope for the Stick to succeed in their self made task. We all hope for the best, and know that there is quite a lot of plot exposition to be made before Xykon and OOTS meet once again. The death of Roy really brought a downer segment in the story.

I've been thinking about all of the things that have happened to our OOTS team, wondering how the resurrection and regrouping of the team will work out. I've a feeling that there is gonna be quite a pain trying to get the members to once again work as a team.

[Huckminster]

Elan, Elan, Elan.

This is what happens when you use intelligence as a dump stat.

[The Gremlin]

This makes you wonder if there's much hope for the Stick to succeed in their self made task. We all hope for the best, and know that there is quite a lot of plot exposition to be made before Xykon and OOTS meet once again. The death of Roy really brought a downer segment in the story.

I've been thinking about all of the things that have happened to our OOTS team, wondering how the resurrection and regrouping of the team will work out. I've a feeling that there is gonna be quite a pain trying to get the members to once again work as a team.Yea, and V just got worse. I think that he does no see Hinjo or Elan as his 'leader'. After Roy's death, he served Haley. Now he is unable to serve either of them, so he s becoming rather independent.
Things do not look good.

[Kaolix]

They only defeated Xykon in their first encounter through sheer happenstance--a combination of Xykon holding back at first because he thought they could help him open the gate, Roy's berserker rage, and Xykon being destroyed by being thrown into the one object in the throne room that could hurt him.

I'd go even further than that and say that everything up to the moment where Roy grabs him was playing (almost) exactly how Xykon had wanted it to. It's made clear he's using far less power than necessary, by the fact that he's using magic missile rather than, say, meteor swarm. Or simply Releasing The MiTD, but Xykon's love of drama (and his combination of arrogance and apathy with regards to the protagonists' capabilities) results in it going wrong in a way he didn't expect.

IMO, the power-increase of the evil side that we've seen since the first encounter is not so much a power increase as a 'now we have no real reason to let you live', hence the consequences of the AC battle (note however that it is again Xykon's arrogance and lack of respect for others' power that results in him losing the AC gate). In other words, I'd put it down to good writing, rather than sudden-increase-of-evil-power-because-plot-demands-it.

[DSCrankshaw]

I'd go even further than that and say that everything up to the moment where Roy grabs him was playing (almost) exactly how Xykon had wanted it to. It's made clear he's using far less power than necessary, by the fact that he's using magic missile rather than, say, meteor swarm. Or simply Releasing The MiTD, but Xykon's love of drama (and his combination of arrogance and apathy with regards to the protagonists' capabilities) results in it going wrong in a way he didn't expect.

IMO, the power-increase of the evil side that we've seen since the first encounter is not so much a power increase as a 'now we have no real reason to let you live', hence the consequences of the AC battle (note however that it is again Xykon's arrogance and lack of respect for others' power that results in him losing the AC gate). In other words, I'd put it down to good writing, rather than sudden-increase-of-evil-power-because-plot-demands-it.
Also, one shouldn't overlook the power increase due to a whole freaking hobgoblin army. That's really what made the Azure City battle so one-sided. The good guys never even fought the mastermind behind the battle directly (Redcloak), due to the fact that there were all those hobgoblins in the way. The battle also meant that they were seriously undermanned in their encounters with Xykon and MitD. There's no guarantee that they'd win against either one even if they had a full party, but they'd stand a much better chance with V's and Durkon's spellcasting.

[King of Nowhere]

I'd go even further than that and say that everything up to the moment where Roy grabs him was playing (almost) exactly how Xykon had wanted it to. It's made clear he's using far less power than necessary, by the fact that he's using magic missile rather than, say, meteor swarm. Or simply Releasing The MiTD, but Xykon's love of drama (and his combination of arrogance and apathy with regards to the protagonists' capabilities) results in it going wrong in a way he didn't expect.
I agree.
In their first fight, not only Xykon wanted some of them alive, but also he didn't consider them a serious threat. Even in azure city battle he didn't take Roy seriously, trying to talk him out of the battle. When Roy reused to talk, Xykon became pissed and used his real power. All fits perfectly Xykon's personality.
The only thing that could be wrong is Redcloak in their first fight. Even assuming he gained his 15th level in the tower around strip 190, he had access to strong clerical spells but didn't cast anything in that battle. But maybe Xykon ordered him to not cast.
In OOOPC Roy said (really minor spoiler) much more powerful than we are, but we hope to lull him into a false sense of security, and it happened exactly that.


About those who don't like this strip, or this story arc, the famous comic writer Scott Adams, author of Dilbert, wrote that he considered a gag succesful if 20% of the audience liked it. Now, Dilbert consist in a joke a day, while OOTS features many jokes every strip, and have a more omogeneous readership, but still the Giant can consider himself fylly succesful.

By the way, I'm loving this story arc. I think it will end with some serious character development for V, and maybe for Elan and Haley.

[Kilarny]

I only have two words:

Comedy Gold

[David Argall]

Well, exactly. Not only has Kubota's plausible deniability been severely damaged, Therkla has been exposed as a conspirator. And Durkon, Lien and Daigo are not exactly in a generous mood. It'll be all she can do to save her own neck.

Currently the Kubota defense is only potentially weakened seriously. They can only tell that they heard a voice of some evil creature who will not be present in court, and who is acknowledged to be tricky and devious, able to say something to cast blame on the wrong party. So they are talking of hearsay of hearsay as far as the court can tell.
Now if they can get Therkla to testify, they have a much better case as she can testify Kubota directly ordered her to arrange various attacks on Hinjo. But so far, we don't know if she will testify, or if the party really suspects her of anything. There seems a chance they didn't notice her conversation with the devil. So she may be able to give them some song and dance

and she may try to play both sides by offing Hinjo if she can gain his trust.

[Gitman00]

Heh heh. Anyone else think Elan's statement in panel 2 is a friendly poke at the forumites who were wildly speculating about the voice in #484?

[Arcadius798]

i honestly think this just shows that Elan might be a little TOO devoted to banjo

[Takver]

Did anyone ever play that Rushhour game? It was a one-player strategy game, or puzzle really, with a lot of little cars on a grid. They could only move horizontally or vertically, and could never turn--a rook's move at any given time was their potential movement for the entire game. There were little cards showing different setups with varying levels of difficulty. You played a red car, which was trying to get to the exit, but was blocked by the other cars. You had to move them all around everywhere, trying to free your little red car.

When you got to the more advanced levels, you would often have to do a whole series of moves in order to get the situation back to almost exactly how it started, with just one car in a different position. But that one car made all the difference: all of a sudden the situation was much better than it was before. Those moments were some of the most satisfying in the game; knowing that you came full circle, but better.

That's what I thought of when I read this (awesome) comic. The full circle thing is very satisfying, only now they have three people with them who they didn't before, which will make all the difference. It's like untying a knot, or untangling your hair.

Ahhhh. My psyche is very soothed right now.

Also, I too am impatient for at least some of the Order to be reunited.

[Selene]

Never heard of the game, but it sounds disturbingly like my life.

[Gherit]

And just when I thought we would be free from Banjo....

[Calemyr]

I'm kinda wondering just how genre-savvy Elan is, personally. If he realizes Therkla's motivation, he might try to dissuade her for her own safety. "But... but... I know how that story goes. I don't want you to die."

[Kd7sov]

It occurs to me that Hinjo can probably cast Zone of Truth, unless he's a somewhat lower level than I think. Assuming there's some way Therkla could request it, that would provide pretty-much-unimpeachable evidence against Kubota. (And it'd be unreasonable to invoke the Cliffport Rebuttal when the ZoTer is a paladin.)

[David Argall]

What magic can confirm, magic can deny. If magic can confirm the truth, it can also hide it.
Zone of Truth will certainly help, but it still won't make Therkla a perfect witness against Kubota.
However the main problem there will be getting her into the witness stand, not her testimony once there. So far, it seems the party doesn't know of her connection to Kubota. And until she talks, they are unlikely to learn she was in the chain of command from Kubota to the ninjas attacking Hinjo. So unless she switches sides [a distinct possibility], they are likely ignorant of having a valuable witness at hand.
Once they learn this, they face other problems. Obviously, Kubota has other ninja's, and so they will have to keep Therkla able to testify. And oriental culture is big on oaths of loyalty, which means that Therkla may have taken some oath that makes it legally impossible for her to testify.

[Red XIV]

As far as other ninjas go, they would be at lower levels than Therkla, since she's stated to be Kubota's best. I don't know how much of a threat they'd present to her.

[LordSintax]

nice symmetry. angry orcish horde all the way to angry orcish horde. (sniff) kinda beautiful.

"Crong not privy to rationale behind command decisions"

that made me laugh.
:amused:

[Artymis]

Haley: "V says Elan is running around naked, so I'm off to see what his 18 Charisma is worth 'under the hood.' "

And now we have come full circle where Elan is sure to take his pants off again.

Also, I am not sure that Therkla is emotionally mature enough for romance. Wouldn't she be making the same mistake her parents made if she loves a human?

Also, Therkla might end up as another excuse for Haley to say the greatest line the comic....
"SNEAK ATTACK BITCH!!!"

[Eric]

Red XIV: Three Ninja's of high enough level will take Therkla out. 'course the remainder of the OOTS here will help defend her, but she doesn't have a last name...

LordSintax: Reminds me of Babylon 5: "Zathras have very sad life. Probably have very sad death, but at least there is balance."

Artymis: A good line, but nowhere near "I am the sexy shoeless god of war!"

[Hiraghm]

Therkla is leading them to the beach.

Varsuvius is on the beach doing his/her thing.

Won't s/he be kinda annoyed when the group trains all those orcs on him/her, breaking his/her concentration?

In the absence of Belkar, I can see a new target for V's rath; Elan.

"I scribed explosive runes this morning"

[Lira]

Varsuvius is on the beach doing his/her thing.I'm pretty sure V flew back to the ship in 554 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0554.html).

[Red XIV]

Yes, V went back to the ship.

Also, after the comments about wasting time pulling pranks on Belkar that could've been used increasing his/her magical power, I don't think V is looking for a new "target for his/her wrath".

[Kish]

(And it'd be unreasonable to invoke the Cliffport Rebuttal when the ZoTer is a paladin.)
No, it wouldn't. Magical detection methods are far too easy to fool regardless of the class/alignment of the caster.

[Red XIV]

Roy's surprise at their policy would seem to indicate that Cliffport's ban on use of magical evidence is an oddity in the OOTS-verse. A society founded by paladins who are willing to kill without hesitation on the basis of a "Detect Evil" seems unlikely to operate their legal system under similar principles.

[An Enemy Spy]

Red XIV: Three Ninja's of high enough level will take Therkla out. 'course the remainder of the OOTS here will help defend her, but she doesn't have a last name...

Yeah but neither does Elan and look where he is:smalltongue:

[dragongirl13]

LOL XD

Banjo definitely does have the power to get people into trouble... but I do believe that Elan may end up with a smack upside his fool head.

[silvadel]

Ouch -- I wonder what will happen when Elan's last name is revealed then?

Ditto V -- I mean in neverending story the whole point was getting a new name for the empress....

Ouch I might have figured it out.

The 4 words for V could be ,......

My gender is ________

[jdude8220]

My prediction is that Therkla will have to turn good, because of her desire for Elan and because she can't really go back to Kubota now that the Imp can reveal her at will. So she'll go back with the Order of Elan (currently, I have them divided up in my head as the Order of Elan, the Order of Haley, and the Order of Roy), discover that h'es attached, and get pissed off. Then, when the Order is eventually reunited, she and Haley will loathe eac other and eventually Therkla will be persuaded back to the evil side. I'm not sure whether she'll live or die.

Of course, she could possibly avoid all that if she manages to weasel her way out of being penalized for treason by making up some other ridiculous lie for Kubota and Co., but somehow I doubt it.

[Eric]

Ouch -- I wonder what will happen when Elan's last name is revealed then?

Ditto V -- I mean in neverending story the whole point was getting a new name for the empress....

Ouch I might have figured it out.

The 4 words for V could be ,......

My gender is ________



Nah. I think I've cracked it. I hope that if I have, Rich doesn't read it and change his mind.


V to the MiTD: Pattycake Pattycake, Bakers' Man

[Doug Lampert]

No, it wouldn't. Magical detection methods are far too easy to fool regardless of the class/alignment of the caster.

In a formal setting, such as a courtroom where you can force someone to comply with simple orders it's fairly trivial to avoid this sort of problem.

Tell them to drop all spells and give someone else all magic items. And then you Detect Magic on them to make sure. Strangely except for Magic Aura, which applies ONLY to OBJECTS, not characters or spells on characters there's NOTHING in the core rules that fools Detect Magic.

So you know if they have any spells up. Even if an OBJECT with false aura grants immunity to your other detection methods it does so by putting a SPELL effect on the character, who then detects even if the object doesn't. So Magic Aura is useless here.

And every single spell in core except Magic Aura which fools detection methods is itself detectable by Detect Magic. EVERY ONE. Nothing else is immune to the simple level 0 cantrip.

For Zone of Truth, people ALWAYS know if they succeed at a will save.
So cast Detect Thoughts on them and tell them to voluntarily fail all their saves or DIE prior to casting Zone of Truth.

They now have to tell the truth or let you know that they're not. Done. Using one level 0, one level 2, and one level 3 spells. That's all it takes. (If they genuinely believe something that's not true the spells don't help. But the only memory alteration spell in core is permanent rather than instantanius in duration so it's detectable if someone deliberately tries to set this up.)

Now Detect Evil for example can still false positive on someone who's got the Evil subtype, or is a cleric of an Evil god, or is undead without themselves being evil. But those are in the spell description.

DougL