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quiet1mi
2008-05-25, 11:19 PM
how do I calculate the Cr of a monster, if it is taking monster levels?

for example in the Libris Mortis, A vampire Spawn is broken up into 8 levels... what is the Cr of a Vampire that is starting out at Vampire Spawn 1...

I was wandering because i wanted to have a dwarven death cult and wanted to throw in some vampires for my Level 1 players

Tsotha-lanti
2008-05-26, 12:11 AM
Monster classes are supposed to list the CR for each level, but for some reason Libris Mortis doesn't. (Savage Species, for instance, does). Go figure. You can try to eyeball the CR using the instructions in the MM for calculating CR increases - just work backwards.

FlyMolo
2008-05-26, 11:45 AM
If you do this, expect your players to want to play monster classes. If they don't, that's fine. But if they do, REMEMBER TO ADVANCE THEM BY CR NOT LEVEL. The monster classes are seriously broken, and the wrong way. A ECL 15 illithid player who just finished the class is exactly equivalent to a CR 9 illithid. It makes no sense. :smallfurious:

Smiley_
2008-05-26, 11:54 AM
Actually, it does.

Imagine your standard illithid unmodified from the MM

Then add ability boosts and equipment of a 15th level character.

This should easily boost it to around CR 12 or 13.

The character should not be CR 15, because the CR is based off of a theoretical encounter with a rogue, cleric, caster and warrior class of the same level.

You wouldn't let an 18th level character play an ancient dragon, would you? Same principle applies not letting a 9th level character playing a full blown illithid.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-05-26, 12:13 PM
If you do this, expect your players to want to play monster classes. If they don't, that's fine. But if they do, REMEMBER TO ADVANCE THEM BY CR NOT LEVEL. The monster classes are seriously broken, and the wrong way. A ECL 15 illithid player who just finished the class is exactly equivalent to a CR 9 illithid. It makes no sense. :smallfurious:

Hot dang, I'll play a 28 HD red dragon with point buy / elite array stats and level 20 WBL equipment in your campaigns any day.

Or even an 18 HD pit fiend with the same.

Seriously, CR vs. ECL does shake out approximately right, you just need to do some hefty XP value calculations to figure it out.

bosssmiley
2008-05-26, 04:18 PM
See this thread (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=33294). Specifically the section in the 3rd post entitled:

Powerful Monsters As PCs, or “Beholder Mages That Don’t Make Us Cry”

Cheers.