HELP: I need to break a bard

[H0L7]

i have a killer DM my barb has toughed it out fairly easily cause i'm a son of a bitch. problem is I've only really played melee and my brother is joining the game and wants to play a bard.

were running at lvl 10 at the moment and were gestalt

i have access to pretty much every 3.5 book out there and pdf copy's of feat spell and item bibles so anything is a go on this

assume that skill rolls will be stacked at least 2 18s 1 16 before racial mods

I need gestalt class recommendations feat recommendations and race recommendations.

for race up to 2 ecl can be ignored due to the amount of oh **** I'm gonna die involved

feel free to be a total ass when it comes to munchinizing our dm has NO problem getting around it

[jcsw]

Sublime Chord from complete arcane allows 4th to 9th level spells for bards, letting you draw from both the Sorc/Wiz and Bard spell lists.

The spell Animate Instruments allows you to play several songs at once by making a spare instrument play for you.

Also: this contains a lot of the useful bard stuff.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=952766

[Ned the undead]

Sublime Chord from complete arcane allows 4th to 9th level spells for bards, letting you draw from both the Sorc/Wiz and Bard spell lists.

The spell Animate Instruments allows you to play several songs at once by making a spare instrument play for you.

Also: this contains a lot of the useful bard stuff.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=952766
I've always felt Seekers of the Song were stronger.

[Armads]

Dragonfire Inspiration. It gives you a ridiculous boost to damage.

[Temp.]

I've always felt Seekers of the Song were stronger. I strongly disagree for obvious reasons (9th level Spells>All), but in Gestalt, you could probably make SotS work. With a Bard/SotS//Sorcerer and Melodic Casting (CM), you might actually make a pretty good blaster.
I'm away from my books at the moment, so I'm not certain how legal this would be (Melodic casting applying to Sorcerer spells and SotS music).

Since you don't specify what role your brother wants, I'll assume it will be a support-leaning generalist-type. That's usually what people think when they think "Bard."

A Templated Human (I'm a huge fan of Phrenic from the EPH) Crusader/Warblade 20 (class and levels chosen to taste)//Bard 8/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 8 has some potential as a support tank and have strong skills/spellcasting for versatility.

Give a look at this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14082576&postcount=45) summation of IC optimization.

(Spoilered for easy access:)


Inspire Courage (Su)
A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 8th level, and every six bard levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability.

Feats
Direct Improvements to Inspire Courage

Song of the Heart (ECS, pg. 60): Bonus granted by your music increases by +1.

Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic). Convert inspire courage bonuses to elemental damage depending on dragon type.

Words of Creation (BoED, pg. 48). Get DM approval. Doubles bonus from bardic music effects, but you take subdual damage.

Other feats for bardic music

Music of Growth (ECS): Kind of like Augment Summoning but with singing.

Melodic Casting (CM, pg. 44): Replace Concentration with Perform. Cast spells/use items while maintaining bardic music.

Song of the White Raven (ToB) Activate Bardic Music as a swift action. (Doesn't work well with the spell Inspirational Boost).

Lingering Song (CA, pg. 111): Bardic Music lasts 1 minute after you stop playing.

Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn): Expend Bardic music to get Charisma to damage.

Spells

Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium, pg. 124): +1 to inspire courage. Can be used during the start of bardic music for longer lasting effect.

Equipment

Vest of Legends (DMG II, pg. 272). Bonus to Diplomacy and Perform. Treated as a bard of higher level for bardic music bonuses.

Badge of Valor (MIC, pg. 208). Bonus on Charm or Fear saves. Or +1 to inspire courage. Either 3/day.

Crystal Echoblade (MIC). Bonus Sonic Damage while using bardic music.

Harmonizing Weapon (MIC). Bonus on Perform checks and the weapon maintains the bardic music, allowing you to cast spells or activate items.

Gaulents of Heartfelt Blows (Dragon#314, p20) Fire Damage bonus to your weapon equal to charisma bonus.

Prestige Classes

Dread Pirate (CA)- Improves Inspire Courage faster than standard bard.

Battle Howler of Gruumsh (Dragon#311) stacks with bard for bardic music uses per day and affects, bardic spells and the 4th lvl ability increases the bonus of inspire courage by 1 as well as make the radius 60 feet.

Heartfire Fanner (Dragon#314) grants bonus feats, free metamagic up to +2 and increase the duration of spells and ex abilities by your Cha Modifier in rounds. Gives full spellcasting, bardic music per day, and teachers the bard all the bardic music affects of a normal bard, but inspire courage is not advanced.

Tips

1) If you have both inspirational boost and a badge of valor, activate them in this order inspirational boost->inspire courage->badge of valor. This uses your swift/immediate actions for the first 2 rounds of the inspire courage, but gives you the full benefit for the duration of the song.

2) A harmonizing weapon helps negate the need for the melodic casting feat, but melodic casting does have additional benefit of freeing up some skill points.


[edit:]

Dragonfire Inspiration. It gives you a ridiculous boost to damage.
Mileage on DI may vary. DI is better for TWF-ers and archers. Straight IC is better for ray-disablers and Power Attackers.
DI will often lose a lot of its kick to energy resistance (unless you use Sorcerer levels and a Sonic-aligned heritage feat), but it does overlap with Bard spells like Heroism and Good Hope. Inspire Courage improves attack rolls so if damage isn't the point of an attack (typically this means Ray spells), the extra damage dice don't matter.

Definitely consider the feat; it is a very nice option. Just don't give it the knee-jerk "12d6 damage! must have!" response.

[Solo]

Question: what do you get when you have a bard with the following?


Snowflake Wardance

Type: General
Source: Frostburn

You have mastered the snowflake wardance, a mystical style of fighting with slashing weapons that allows you to leap and almost seem to float haphazardly across the battlefield like a whirling, razor-edged snowflake.

Prerequisite: Bardic music ability, Perform (dance) 6 ranks.
Benefit: By expending one of your daily uses of bardic music, you may perform a deadly style of combat known as the snowflake wardance. Activating a snowflake wardance is a free action, and once activated, you add your Charisma modifier to your attack rolls with any slashing melee weapon you wield in one hand. This bonus to hit stacks with any bonuses you get from a high Strength score (or Dexterity score, if you are using Weapon Finesse).
You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a shield, wearing medium or heavy armor, or carrying a medium or heavy load.
A snowflake wardance lasts for a number of rounds equal to your ranks in Perform (dance). Performing a snowflake wardance is physically tiresome - when the snowflake wardance ends, you become fatigued for the next 10 minutes.

Iaijutsu Focus

Make an Iaijutsu Focus check, modified by Charisma, when you draw your weapon and attack against a flat footed opponent. For every 5 points over a result of 10, you deal +1d6 extra damage, capped at 9d6
10-15 you add 1d6 to your damage
15-20 2d6
so on and so on until +9d6 damage.

usable on objects for full damage


Jack Of All Trades [General]
Prerequisite

You must be at least 6th level.
Benefit

You can use any skill untrained, even those that normally require training. (Effectively .5 ranks in skill)

Bardic Knack

Bardic Knack PHB II: You lose bardic knowledge and gain this wonderful ability. Check with your DM if you can stack levels that grant bardic knowledge (or a similar ability) for this. Twenty levels of bardic knack plus the feat jack of all trades would be like having all skills maxed out as cross class skills minus 1 rank (cross class skill maximum is 11.5 and you get 10.5 with the mentioned abilities).

Improvisation
Transmutation
Level: Bard 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
You gain access to a floating "pool" of luck, which manifests as bonus points you can use as desired to improve your odds of success at various tasks. This bonus pool consists of 2 points per caster level, which you can spend as you like to improve attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks, although no single check can receive a bonus greater than one-half your caster level. You must declare any bonus point usage before the appropriate roll is made.

Used points disappear from the pool, and any points remaining when the spell ends are wasted.

These points count as luck bonuses for purposes of stacking.

For example, a 14th-level bard pauses while chasing a pickpocket to cast improvisation. At any time during the next 14 rounds, he could use the points to provide him a +7 luck bonus on a Spot check, a +7 luck bonus on a Climb check, and a +7 luck bonus on two of his attacks.

Material Component: A pair of dice.

Lingering Song
Your inspirational bardic music stays with the listeners long after the last note has died away.

Prerequisite: Bardic music.
Benefit: If you use bardic music to inspire courage, inspire greatness, or inspire heroics, the effect lasts for 1 minute after an inspired ally stops hearing you play.
Normal: Inspire courage, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics last as long as an ally hears the bard sing plus an additional 5 rounds thereafter.

Quick Draw [General]
Prerequisite
Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit
You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.

A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).

[Eldariel]

Never say 'munchkin' again. Ever. Just...if you don't know the context of the word, refrain from using it - it's not very becoming of anyone and it can offend a lot of people especially when used in abnormal connotations. Talk about "optimizing" if you want an optimized build. Min/Maxing if you really want to Min/Max. Theorethical builds if you have no intention of playing in the first place. Nothing about munchkins, please. Alright? Thanks.


Now, to the point. Seeker doesn't get any Magic, while Sublime Chord gets added Magic and Bardic Music (most importantly, Song of Arcane Power, which synergizes these two). The quinessential Sublime Chord-build is Bard 8/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 8, finishing Virtuoso and getting full Sublime Chord casting. Alternative, not quite as stylish, but more efficient version is Bard 9/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 8; doesn't finish Virtuoso, but gets Inspire Greatness. You can fit other classes into it, but this is the simpliest, and probably the most effective, build.

You could fit a bunch of Lyric Thaumaturge-levels in there, but that's really trading one of your strongest abilities - Inspire Courage - for few mediocre class features and a feat. Also, you'll never get Inspire Greatness with Thaumaturge. Finally, it gets less skillpoints.


Since you're gestalt, you're going to want a side that synergizes well with Bard. A powerful Gestalt option, and one that really works if this character has a high Intelligence is Factotum. Gives you all skills in the game as class skills. Yes. All. And also, they get some limited arcane casting (boooring), some healing (bit better), the ability to add Int to basically any roll ever (nice) and the ability to take extra Standard Actions (OMGWTFBBQ?!).

Alternatively, you could focus on Charisma Synergies; make a Swift Hunter (Scout/Ranger) Dervish on the other side and focus the Bard on martial abilities, stack Charisma to saves and attack and all that a couple of times with Paladins, Hexblades, Battle Dancers and god-knows-what. Add Crusader for some kickass maneuvers or Favoured Soul for divine casting.

As far as template goes, try to sneak in Magic-Blooded (+2 Cha, -2 Wis; in some Dragon Magazine I recall) and beyond that, look for races that boost Charisma and Int from Crystal Keep d20 indexes (http://www.crystalkeep.com). Human with "Dark" or "Half-Fey"-template is still a fine choice though.

It all depends on the synergies you want in the character. It's customary for the player to at least give an idea of what he wants. Otherwise, you may just get fed the Pun-Pun (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=491801), as it's impossible to help someone if you don't know what they want, and ungrateful to do so if they haven't went through trouble themselves.


And yes, take a look at the Bard's Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=952766) over at the Wizards forums like jcsw said; it'll do you a world of good.


EDIT: ****ing. Ninjas.

[Temp.]

Iaijutsu Focus

Make an Iaijutsu Focus check, modified by Charisma, when you draw your weapon and attack against a flat footed opponent. For every 5 points over a result of 10, you deal +1d6 extra damage, capped at 9d6
10-15 you add 1d6 to your damage
15-20 2d6
so on and so on until +9d6 damage.

usable on objects for full damage

...

Quick Draw [General]
Prerequisite
Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit
You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.
Note that Quick Draw doesn't decrease the Move action you need to spend sheathing your weapon. If you use a Gnome with the CW EWP-tradeoff feature (it's hidden in the last page or so) to swap EWP--Quickrazor (RoS) in for EWP--Hooked Hammer, you can get around this.

Quickrazors are always drawn and sheathed as free actions, even without Quickdraw.

[Jack Zander]

Never say 'munchkin' again. Ever. Just...if you don't know the context of the word, refrain from using it - it's not very becoming of anyone and it can offend a lot of people especially when used in abnormal connotations. Talk about "optimizing" if you want an optimized build. Min/Maxing if you really want to Min/Max. Theorethical builds if you have no intention of playing in the first place. Nothing about munchkins, please. Alright? Thanks.


This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18512) would disagree with you.

Honestly, I'm not sure how a creature from the Wizard of Oz offends you, but each to his own...

[Solo]

Note that Quick Draw doesn't decrease the Move action you need to spend sheathing your weapon. If you use a Gnome with the CW EWP-tradeoff feature (it's hidden in the last page or so) to swap EWP--Quickrazor (RoS) in for EWP--Hooked Hammer, you can get around this.

Quickrazors are always drawn and sheathed as free actions, even without Quickdraw.

Oh, nonono.... you don't resheath you weapon, you carry 5 longswords on your person that you draw one after another.

[MorkaisChosen]

Hey, with that much bonus damage, you're probably better of saving the weight and just taking loads of daggers.

Also, add, on the other side of that build, Warblade 1/ Rogue 9. Take Sapphire Nightmare Blade- now every other turn you can get another 6d6 bonus damage on top of Focus.

EDIT: In fact, I didn't know IF needed the opponent to be flat-footed. That combo allows you to use IF every other turn.

[Solo]

Hey, with that much bonus damage, you're probably better of saving the weight and just taking loads of daggers.


Weight? This is HANDY HAVERSACK!

[MorkaisChosen]

Oh, of course... In that case, though, why not go the whole hog and use spiked chains from 10ft away?

[Armads]

Wait... which cheesebook is Improvisation from? SpC? CC? CDiv?

[Eldariel]

This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18512) would disagree with you.

Honestly, I'm not sure how a creature from the Wizard of Oz offends you, but each to his own...

Me? You aren't reading it literally enough. I used the imprecise forms for a reason. The Wizard of Oz does actually fill me with incomprehensible rage, but that's a story for a different time. Sufficient to say, I have my issues.

[Solo]

Oh, of course... In that case, though, why not go the whole hog and use spiked chains from 10ft away?

Cause that isn't as awesome.


Improvisation is from SpC

[Jack Zander]

Ah yes, dropping as a free action. Drawing as another free action. Do this 1,000,000 times and your arm will move so fast that you'll implode the galaxy into a quantum singularity.

[Newtkeeper]

Ah yes, dropping as a free action. Drawing as another free action. Do this 1,000,000 times and your arm will move so fast that you'll implode the galaxy into a quantum singularity.

Which you will then undo by using commoners to accelerate you until you are traveling at superluminal speeds.

[drengnikrafe]

Ah yes, dropping as a free action. Drawing as another free action. Do this 1,000,000 times and your arm will move so fast that you'll implode the galaxy into a quantum singularity.

Ahh, yes. When you attach this to the "Chicken" flaw (you draw a chicken 1/2 of the times you attempt to draw your weapon), you can fill the whole room with chickens as a free action, therefore destroying the galexy because the Law of Conservation of Mass cannot support that many chickens.

[Jack Zander]

Ahh, yes. When you attach this to the "Chicken" flaw (you draw a chicken 1/2 of the times you attempt to draw your weapon), you can fill the whole room with chickens as a free action, therefore destroying the galexy because the Law of Conservation of Mass cannot support that many chickens.

Is that seriously a flaw?

If it is, every one of my characters is taking it.

[drengnikrafe]

Is that seriously a flaw?

If it is, every one of my characters is taking it.

It's in Dragon Magazine #xxx. I don't know which one, but I remember my DM telling me about it. Just remember, if you try to draw your weapon in the heat of battle, you may find yourself with a chicken in your hands instead, and that could kill you fast.

[Jack Zander]

It's in Dragon Magazine #xxx. I don't know which one, but I remember my DM telling me about it. Just remember, if you try to draw your weapon in the heat of battle, you may find yourself with a chicken in your hands instead, and that could kill you fast.

No way, not when the enemy loses their action being perplexed at the idea.

Or when you have quick draw. Since flaws give you a bonus feat, you can take quick draw and gain a free feat at no penalty plus some comic hilarity.

[quiet1mi]

behold my weapon specialization (poultry)

I leave your dirty minds to anything else to be thought of that.

[tyckspoon]

It's in Dragon Magazine #xxx. I don't know which one, but I remember my DM telling me about it. Just remember, if you try to draw your weapon in the heat of battle, you may find yourself with a chicken in your hands instead, and that could kill you fast.

It's also Commoners-only. Was most likely an April issue.. oh, there it is. #330, in the article 'Flaws for Commoners', along with other flaws like Delicious, Dirt Farmer, Peasant Hat, and XP Farm.

[Cuddly]

Gloura7/bard3/sublimechord10//hexblade4/paladin of tyranny2/blackguard3/arcane duelist3/swordsage2/something else X

What you get:
Easily 30+ charisma & dex by level 10, charisma to AC 3 times- once from gloura [monster race on wizards site], once from ascetic mage [feat turns wis bonus to ac to cha bonus from swordsage], and once from arcane duelist [prc on wizard's site].

You get 3x your charisma bonus to all saves, 4x your charisma bonus to all saves vs. spells & spell like abilities. You get mettle, and a ring of evasion only costs 25k. So you're basically unhittable and anything that allows a save, you make.

With arcane duelist, and a two handed weapon, you basically get a free amount of damage to your attacks equal to your BAB (or 3x that with leap attack). You can also get 19 BAB with this build if your "something else" has full BAB.

With sublime chord, you get ninth level spells, with a third level in blackguard you get turning, which means divine metamagic & nightsticks. From your blackguard aura & the alternate class feature for hexblade, anything next to you has -4 to its saves.

[Jack Zander]

It's also Commoners-only. Was most likely an April issue.. oh, there it is. #330, in the article 'Flaws for Commoners', along with other flaws like Delicious, Dirt Farmer, Peasant Hat, and XP Farm.

Okay, so know I have to be a commoner level 1 to get the flaw, then retrain that commoner level later...

It's fool-proof!

[Temp.]

Gloura7/bard3/sublimechord10//hexblade4/paladin of tyranny2/blackguard3/arcane duelist3/swordsage2/something else X

What you get:
Easily 30+ charisma & dex by level 10, charisma to AC 3 times- once from gloura [monster race on wizards site], once from ascetic mage [feat turns wis bonus to ac to cha bonus from swordsage], and once from arcane duelist [prc on wizard's site].Link (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e)
Good thought. That race is a gem.


With arcane duelist, and a two handed weapon, you basically get a free amount of damage to your attacks equal to your BAB (or 3x that with leap attack). You can also get 19 BAB with this build if your "something else" has full BAB.
Link again. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a)

...a third level in blackguard you get turning, which means divine metamagic...
That one isn't going to fly. DMM only works with divine spells.
Paladin of Tyranny/Bard doesn't work. Paladin of Slaughter will, though.
RAW, Swordsage doesn't trigger Ascetic Mage's AC bonus. A DM won't necessarily disallow it, but Monk levels may be required instead.

[Cuddly]

That one isn't going to fly. DMM only works with divine spells.

Oh shucks. Not like you've got enough feats left for that, anyway.


Paladin of Tyranny/Bard doesn't work. Paladin of Slaughter will, though.
RAW, Swordsage doesn't trigger Ascetic Mage's AC bonus. A DM won't necessarily disallow it, but Monk levels may be required instead.

From Complete Adventurer:

ASCETIC MAGE
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, ability to
spontaneously cast 2nd-level arcane spells.
Benefit: As a swift action that doesn’t provoke attacks
of opportunity, you can sacrifice one of your daily allotment
of spells to add a bonus to your unarmed strike
attack rolls and damage rolls for 1 round. The bonus is
equal to the level of the spell sacrificed. The spell is lost
as if you had cast it.
If you have levels in sorcerer and monk, those levels
stack for the purpose of determining your AC bonus. For
example, a human 4th-level sorcerer/1st-level monk would
have a +1 bonus to AC as if she were a 5th-level monk.
If you would normally be allowed to add your Wisdom
bonus to AC (such as for a unarmored, unencumbered
monk), you instead add your Charisma bonus (if any) to
your AC.
In addition, you can multiclass freely between the
sorcerer and monk classes. You must still remain lawful
in order to continue advancing as a monk. You still face
the normal XP penalties for having multiple classes more
than one level apart.


That means 2 levels swordsage AND a +1 twighlight mithral chain shirt.

[Temp.]

That means 2 levels swordsage AND a +1 twighlight mithral chain shirt. Slick. I'm away from my books, so I thought I'd trust realmshelps. I probably should get around to learning not to do that.

[Cuddly]

Gloura's fantastic. It's like a bard with better stats and no prancing.

[Farmer42]

While not the most powerful build in the world, Bard 9/Sublime Chord 1/ Ur-Preist 1/Mystic Theurge 9.