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Vandin
2008-05-27, 09:38 AM
Are fairly unrelated. But, I do has a question or two!

In the ~10th level game I DM, I've got a feral, winged, VoP paladin/monk. He's the newcomer to the group, and is the only player that has any previous experience with D&D. The fact that he does some fairly decent damage (pounce!), flies, and is offensively hard to kill is a lot on the pesky side, but I've been handling it okay so far, I think.

Anyhow, the problem I've run into is that he wants to go into Risen Martyr and has been heavily hinting in private that he wouldn't mind kicking the bucket. I just can't figure out something that would kill him (and ideally dispose of the body, since we have a cleric) without being a TPK. The best I've thought of was having him fly off to investigate some high-up threat (archers from an overlooking cave, perhaps?) and ..something happens.


As for the trolls, the party is very close to delving into some troll-infested ruins, and I'm looking to be fairly evil here. A half-dragon (fire)/something with acid resist or immunity templated troll, that moves very slowly and somehow draws out lifeforce/energy from the players nearby.

I'm sure there's a trope for it, but the basic idea being that of a really slowly moving powerhouse that the players realistically can't hope to defeat, leading to a dramatic (if slightly slow) chase through the ruins while they search for the MacGuffin. Sort of like the Rancor chase mission from Jedi Knight Academy :smallsmile:

tl;dr version:
1: How do I kill a defensively hearty VoP monk without it being a half-or-more TPK?
2: How exactly do you transmit the knowledge of "you can't beat this" to the players, ideally something more subtle than saying "you can't beat this", so they discover it on their own?
3: Suggestions for an awesome mechanic of life/energy stealing for said evil troll are more than welcome :smallbiggrin:

-Vandin

Lochar
2008-05-27, 09:53 AM
1: Have the VoP thing get eaten by the half dragon troll thing.

2: As they come down the corridor of Doom (TM), there are dozens of bodies strewn around, all of them having fallen running away. Written in blood and gouged into the walls around some of the corpses are messages like "It doesn't die." "It's a troll, why won't it burn?" near a flame burned area, etc.

3: Infuse the place with negative energy, with the troll thing being the focus of it. All the negative energy done is directly transfered to the troll as HP, negating any damage done to it. By the time your players get to it, the troll has been there for years absorbing life. It's HP should total somewhere in the hundreds of thousands.


Although, you're going to want to find a way to make it immune to Slay Living, disintegrate, etc.

Worira
2008-05-27, 09:59 AM
Disintegrate does HP damage.

Telonius
2008-05-27, 10:03 AM
Well, having the Monk being eaten in one hit will probably get the point across that this is a creature you don't want to get too close to.

Give the monk's player advance warning that you're going to send them up against it. The player declares he's going to charge it. You look at him like, "Are you sure?" He says, yeah. Charge, thwack, troll takes no damage.

Call for initiative roll. Oh look, the troll rolled a 20. :smallwink: Troll eats the Monk in one hit. Read off the damage, watch the other players' jaws drop.

Pyroconstruct
2008-05-27, 10:09 AM
What are his actual HD and HP? You say it's ~10th level, but Troll + Winged + Feral + Monk 1 + Paladin 1 is ECL 15.

If he has lower HP/HD than the rest of the party, there are various abilities keyed off of HP or HD total that can instagib him, but not do much to people with more levels. Unless you waived the LA or something, he should have about 7 less HD than the other party members.

Power Word: Kill works if his HP is under 100. Circle of Death works if his HD is 8 or less; although it is Fort, because of the HD limit you can jack the saving throw without killing off the rest of the party.

So long as he is the lowest HD party member, even if just by 1, a Blasphemy will work. A 1-charge item with Blasphemy cast at (troll HD + 10) will work; the troll will be instagibbed with no Save or SR, everyone else gets worked over to varying degrees. It does do a 1d10 minute paralysis effect to anyone without more than 5 more HD than the troll, which in theory they should have because of his LA. If not, maybe you can work in some sort of plot where the party gets Blasphemy-bombed by a rare 1-charge item, the troll dies and everyone else is captured while they're paralyzed, then the troll Risen Martyrs and frees them so they can kill the now-Blasphemy-less bad guy? Alternatively, you could set it up so the rest of the PCs are immune to paralysis temporarily (such as via Freedom of Movement).

EDIT: Giving that wierd monster a 1/day Blasphemy at CL the VOP troll's HD + 10 will do the trick, if you want to go that route. In fact, you could even set up a plot where the PCs escape after being Blasphemed, someone with Knowledge: Religion figures out the bad guy can only do it 1/day, and then they have a day to track him down and pwnzor him, before he gets the bomb back.

EDIT 2: Oops, I somehow got into my head the VOP guy was a troll. OK, now it makes sense, he should be 8 HD and the rest of the party 10 HD, right? Circle of Death with a massively pumped save DC will kill him and do nothing to the rest of the party. Also, Death Ward will block this from happening, so after they know about it, they can at least shield him from it by having the cleric cast that. Alternatively, the Blasphemy bomb trick still works.

its_all_ogre
2008-05-27, 10:20 AM
the VOP character is not a troll.

LoneGamer
2008-05-27, 12:49 PM
Half-Fire Elemental/Half-Black Dragon Troll. Immune to fire, immune to acid, flies, has regeneration/fire or acid. Or, since immune to fire and acid, regeneration/-.

Prometheus
2008-05-27, 05:16 PM
You could always kill off the player by drumming up their power rather than downplaying it. For example, the VoP paladin/monk becomes so holy that it plays a central plot roll and attracts the attention of evil forces (of whatever). It is therefore assassinated, cursed with powerful but encumbersome magic, stricken down by an evil god, undergoes some tragic anagnorisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anagnorisis), is framed, or is the sole target of a powerful Outsider. The focus for the PCs would not be on preventing such a horrible fate, but how to react to the mixed message of success and failure, and how to recover (in short, something akin to plot device/DM fiat). If you do it swift enough, you could replace the old character with the new in a clean action.

Yahzi
2008-05-27, 09:34 PM
I'm sure there's a trope for it, but the basic idea being that of a really slowly moving powerhouse that the players realistically can't hope to defeat, leading to a dramatic (if slightly slow) chase through the ruins while they search for the MacGuffin.
Iron Golems were made for this sort of thing.


2: How exactly do you transmit the knowledge of "you can't beat this" to the players, ideally something more subtle than saying "you can't beat this", so they discover it on their own?
Make your Iron Golem 87 feet tall. That ought to get the message across.

:smallbiggrin:

Khanderas
2008-05-28, 08:33 AM
Iron Golems were made for this sort of thing.


Make your Iron Golem 87 feet tall. That ought to get the message across.

:smallbiggrin:
Nah, they would just go shadow of the colossos on it.:smallsmile:

Illiterate Scribe
2008-05-28, 08:48 AM
Hundreds and hundreds of tiny iron golems, moving slowly forward like a invincible, iron carpet could do the trick.

Lochar
2008-05-28, 08:57 AM
I fabricate the stone floor, creating dozens of stone chairs on my side, leaving a sizable pit for the golems to fall into.

Small mindless things and the ability to create a hole don't mix well. :P

MorkaisChosen
2008-05-28, 09:23 AM
The hungry negative-energy "Hahahahahahahahaaa!" could work like the Negative-Dominant planar trait in a radius around the creature, with all HP people lose to it being given as temporary HP. To demonstrate: the room full of corpses is good, as would a complete lack of animals or a lost squirrel/bear/Hill Giant Dire Wereboar wandering too close and being turned to a skeleton in front of your eyes.