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Jack_Simth
2008-05-27, 07:04 PM
The Vow of Poverty Redux (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81445) thread got me to thinking on how to fix the Vow of Poverty - the issue isn't so much that the Vow of Poverty itself is weak, it's that the non-casters don't get the stuff they'd normally get through wealth - Flight for when the battle leaves the ground, teleportation and invisibility for when a fight turns sour, and so on. The Vow of Poverty does, on the other hand, grant bonus exalted feats - which means we can "fix" the Vow of Poverty relatively simply by arranging for new exalted feats to grant those missing abilities. So without further ado, I present to you:


New Exalted Feats

Invisibility:

Grig's Stealth [Exalted]
Your intimate relationship with a good aligned Fey gives you the opportunity to learn a few tricks of other good-aligned Fey, as well.
Requirements: Nymph's Kiss, Hide 6 ranks
Benefit: Once per day, as a standard action, you can turn yourself and your attended items Invisible (as the spell) for a number of minutes equal to the number of [Exalted] feats you posses. This is a spell-like ability.

Pixie's Befuddlement[Exalted]
Your intimate relationship with a good aligned Fey gives you the opportunity to learn a few tricks of other good-aligned Fey, as well.
Requirements: Nymph's Kiss, Grig's Stealth, Hide 11 ranks
Benefit: Once per day, as a standard action, you can turn yourself and your attended items Invisible (as the spell Greater Invisibility) for a number of rounds equal to the number of [Exalted] feats you posses. This is a supernatural ability.


Teleportation:

Archon's Step [Exalted]
You develop a fledgling bond with the lowly Lantern Archons, and through your bond, you gain a small measure of the Archons' ability to teleport ... and an enhanced glow.
Requirements: Nimbus of Light, Holy Radiance, Jump 8 ranks
Benefit: Three times per day, you can teleport yourself and encumbrance up to 50 pounds (but not other people) as a standard action to a range of 25 feet plus 5 feet per two Exalted feats you posses. This is a spell-like ability that otherwise operates as Dimension Door. Additionally, your Holy Radiance ability improves - the Bright Light and undead damaging radius extends by 10 feet (to 20 feet), the shadowy illumination radius increases by 20 feet (to 40 feet), and the damage per round to undead within your radius of bright light increases by 1d4 per turn (to 2d4).

Archon's Stride [Exalted]
As your bond with the Lantern Archons grows, and with it, your inner light and your ability to jump from one place to another.
Requirements: Nimbus of Light, Holy Radiance, Archon's Step, Jump 13 ranks
Benefit: As Archon's Step, but you can now do so four times per day and the range is 100 feet plus 10 feet per Exalted feat you possess. Additionally, your Holy Radiance ability improves - the Bright Light and undead damaging radius extends by 10 feet (to 30 feet), the shadowy illumination radius increases by 20 feet (to 60 feet), and the damage per round to undead within your radius of bright light increases by 1d4 per turn (to 3d4).

Archon's Jump [Exalted]
Your bond with the Lantern Archons achieves a fullness of glory, and with it, your inner light and your ability to Jump from one place to another does as well.
Requirements: Nimbus of Light, Holy Radiance, Archon's Step, Archon's Stride, Jump 18 ranks
Benefit: As Archon's Step, but you can now do so every 1d4+1 rounds (this replaces the per-day cap), the range is 400 feet plus 40 feet per Exalted feat you possess, and you can do so as a move action. Additionally, your Holy Radiance ability improves - the Bright Light and undead damaging radius extends by 10 feet (to 40 feet), the shadowy illumination radius increases by 20 feet (to 80 feet), and the damage per round to undead within your radius of bright light increases by 1d4 per turn (to 4d4).
Previous Teleport versions:

Archon's Step [Exalted]
You develop a fledgling bond with the lowly Lantern Archons, and through your bond, you gain a small measure of the Archons' ability to teleport ... and an enhanced glow.
Requirements: Cha 17, Nimbus of Light, Holy Radiance, Jump 8 ranks
Benefit: Once per day, you can teleport yourself and encumbrance up to 50 pounds (but not other people) as a standard action to a range of 25 feet plus 5 feet per Exalted feat you posses. This is a spell-like ability that otherwise operates as Dimension Door. Additionally, your Holy Radiance ability impoves - the Bright Light and undead damaging radius extends by 10 feet (to 20 feet), the shadowy illumination radius increases by 20 feet (to 40 feet), and the damage per round to undead within your radius of bright light increases by 1d4 per turn (to 2d4).

Archon's Stride [Exalted]
As your bond with the Lantern Archons grows, and with it, your inner light and your ability to jump from one place to another.
Requirements: Cha 19, Nimbus of Light, Holy Radiance, Archon's Step, Jump 13 ranks
Benefit: As Archon's Step, but you can now do so twice per day and the range is 100 feet plus 10 feet per Exalted feat you possess. Additionally, your Holy Radiance ability impoves - the Bright Light and undead damaging radius extends by 10 feet (to 30 feet), the shadowy illumination radius increases by 20 feet (to 60 feet), and the damage per round to undead within your radius of bright light increases by 1d4 per turn (to 3d4).

Archon's Jump [Exalted]
Your bond with the Lantern Archons achieves a fullness of glory, and with it, your inner light and your ability to Jump from one place to another does as well.
Requirements: Cha 21, Nimbus of Light, Holy Radiance, Archon's Step, Archon's Stride, Jump 18 ranks
Benefit: As Archon's Step, but you can now do so three times per day, the range is 400 feet plus 40 feet per Exalted feat you possess, and you can do so as a move action. Additionally, your Holy Radiance ability impoves - the Bright Light and undead damaging radius extends by 10 feet (to 40 feet), the shadowy illumination radius increases by 20 feet (to 80 feet), and the damage per round to undead within your radius of bright light increases by 1d4 per turn (to 4d4).


Flight:

Yearn for the Heavens[Exalted]
You have learned to use your bond with the celestial realms to tug on the heavens a little, cushioning your falls.
Prerequisite: Dex 13
Benefit: When you fall, subtract 10 feet from your effective falling distance per [Exalted] feat you posses; if you have 11 or more Exalted feats, you take no damage from falling at all. This does not alter your actual falling speed, just the amount of damage you take from the impact. This is a supernatural ability.

Reach for the Heavens[Exalted]
Your bond with the celestial realms is very strong, and you have learned how to use that bond to pull yourself up off the ground for short periods of time.
Prerequisite: Dex 16, Yearn for the Heavens, Character Level 5
Benefit: As a Swift action, you can grant yourself a fly speed equal to your land speed (good maneuverability) usable once per day per Exalted feat you possess. This fly speed lasts for five rounds, and is a supernatural ability.

Climb to the Heavens[Exalted]
Your bond with the celestial realms is so strong that you can use it fly indefinitely.
Prerequisite: Dex 19, Yearn for the Heavens, Reach for the Heavens
Benefit: You gain a fly speed equal to twice your land speed (average maneuverability), usable at will. This is a supernatural ability.


Previous versions:

Yearn for the Heavens[Exalted]
You have learned to use your bond with heaven to tug on the heavens a little, slowing your descent.
Prerequisite: Dex 13
Benefit: When you fall, subtract 10 feet from your effective falling distance per [Exalted] feat you posses; if you have 11 or more Exalted feats, you take no damage from falling at all. This does not alter your actual falling speed, just the amount of damage you take from the impact. This is a supernatural ability.

Reach for the Heavens[Exalted]
Your bond with the heavens is very strong, and you have learned how to use that bond to pull yourself up off the ground for short periods of time.
Prerequisite: Dex 16, Yearn for Heaven, Character Level 5
Benefit: As a Swift action, you can grant yourself a fly speed equal to your land speed (good maneuverability) usable once per day per Exalted feat you possess. This fly speed lasts for five rounds, and is a supernatural ability.

Climb to the Heavens[Exalted]
Your bond with the heavens is so strong that you can use it fly indefinitely.
Prerequisite: Dex 19, Yearn for the Heavens, Reach for the Heavens, Character Level 9
Benefit: You gain a fly speed equal to twice your land speed (average maneuverability), usable at will. This is a supernatural ability.

Pre-edit versions:

Air's Promise[Exalted] [Vow]
You don't hurt the air, and the helps keep you from harm.
Prerequisite: Sacred Vow
Benefit: When you fall, your falling damage is reduced by one die per [Exalted] feat you posses, calculated after the maximum damage cap from falling (20d6). This does not alter your actual falling speed, just the amount of damage you take from the impact. This is a supernatural ability. Thus, if you fall 250 feet, and have this and four other Exalted feats, you only take 15d6 damage from the fall, rather than the normal 20d6.
Special: To maintain your end of the bargain, you must not poison the air - you may not cast Cloudkill, Acid Fog, or similar spells that make the air hostile to life; you cannot knowingly use Dust of Sneezing and Choking, you may not deliberately exhaust the air in an enclosed space, and so on. Actions that do not make the air unsuitable for life (normal campfires, breathing, Fog Cloud, Solid Fog, and so on) do not break this vow. If you deliberately break this vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefits of this feat. You may not take another feat to replace it. If you break your vow as a result of magical compulsion or otherwise unintentionally, you lose the benefit of this feat until you perform a suitable penance and receive and Atonement spell.

Wind's Freedom[Exalted][Vow]
You don't bend the wind to your will... and it will carry you for a little while.
Prerequisite: Sacred Vow, Air's Promise, Character Level 5
Benefit: You gain a fly speed equal to twice your land speed (good maneuverability) usable on a number of rounds per day equal to the number of [Exalted] feats you posses, split up however you choose. This is a supernatural ability.
Special: To maintain your end of the bargain, you must not force your will on the winds - you may not cast Control Winds, Gust of Wind, Wind Wall, or other spells that impose your will on the wind. You likewise can't use items that have similar effects, and are not permitted to use a mundane fan to push the air around (although simple mundane blowing is permitted - living creatures do need to breathe). If you deliberately break this vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefits of this feat. You may not take another feat to replace it. If you break your vow as a result of magical compulsion or otherwise unintentionally, you lose the benefit of this feat until you perform a suitable penance and receive and Atonement spell.

Weather's Pact[Exalted][Vow]
You don't mess with the weather, and it will support you on your path.
Prerequisite: Sacred Vow, Air's Promise, Wind's Freedom, Character Level 9
Benefit: You gain a fly speed equal to your land speed (average maneuverability), usable at will. This is a supernatural ability.
Special: To maintain your end of the bargain, you must not force your will on the weather - you may not cast Control Weather, Fire Storm, Ice Storm, Storm of Vengance, any of the Cloud spells, Obscurring Mist, or otherwise take actions that directly affect local meteorology. You likewise can't use items that have similar effects. If you deliberately break this vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefits of this feat. You may not take another feat to replace it. If you break your vow as a result of magical compulsion or otherwise unintentionally, you lose the benefit of this feat until you perform a suitable penance and receive and Atonement spell.



----------------------------------------

Any comments on the balance of the above?

So, anyone have any reasonably flavorful ways to do some fairly short feat chains for invisibility (ala Potions of Invisibility) in such a way that it's reasonably balanced?

Stycotl
2008-05-28, 12:17 AM
i would actually just make one feat, at a higher level prereq, that fixes the flying dilemma, and i wouldn't make it a vow. but this is just me. i think i did make some exalted feats somewhere that i have yet to post. let me see if i can find them...

Fizban
2008-05-28, 03:46 AM
I'd say they're underpowered. Compare to Dragon Wings/Improved Dragon Wings, and the Raptoran and Dragonborn races. With a dragonblooded races, you spend two feats for the same end result, with no strings attached, and can spend a third for improved maneuverability to make up for average. A normal human can spend 3 to get the wings using Draconic Heritage. Additionally, they take no more than 1d6 for falling, whereas your airborne character will still take several if he falls a great distance. As normal feats the first and third are underpowered and the second is debateable; as exalted feats they should be stronger than normal feats, so something is definitely wrong.

Furthermore, a Raptoran or Dragonborn gets all the effects of the above feats for free, meaning they need spend only one feat for full flight with good maneuverability in the end, and could do so earlier for the 5-6th level combat flight and match the exalted path, again for less and no strings.

Now, you've said yourself that these are designed to go in the exalted feat slots from vow of poverty. Essentially we're trading exalted feats for limited air power, which is fine considering that there are few exalted feats really worth taking, so there's nothing to really fill up those slots. But considering them just as straight feats, they aren't good enough. Oh, and I forgot about the sacred vow prerequisite, which means you're actually spending 4 feats for an ability that can be aquired with 0, 2, or 3 depending on racial choice.

I'd recommend just replacing the bonus exalted feats with a menu of abilities to work with for the mobility item replacement. Though it does seem more artificial, I think it would work better than making the "class that gain bonus feats from this list->list of feats that grant class abilities" overcomplication.

Realms of Chaos
2008-05-28, 10:55 AM
I, for one, think that these feats are overpowered.

The entire point of a vow is that it must be difficult at times to maintain this vow. For example, vow of poverty, vow of peace, vow of purity, and vow of obediance will all make for some difficult moments, regardless of what class you possess.

With these feats, however, a fighter, for example, could relinquish the ability to cast spells that they don't have access to in the first place in order to fly around. NO DOWNSIDE. NO SACRIFICE. NOTHING.

A vow should actually hinder someone regardless of what class they have taken. As such, not casting a small list of spells does not qualify.

Also, take note that these are about as good as draconic wings as you don't need a specific subtype in order to take them and you don't need to waste a feat at a specific level to gain it, balanced by the fact that you gain flying later and that you need a good alignment.

Jack_Simth
2008-05-28, 03:55 PM
I, for one, think that these feats are overpowered.

The entire point of a vow is that it must be difficult at times to maintain this vow. For example, vow of poverty, vow of peace, vow of purity, and vow of obediance will all make for some difficult moments, regardless of what class you possess.

With these feats, however, a fighter, for example, could relinquish the ability to cast spells that they don't have access to in the first place in order to fly around. NO DOWNSIDE. NO SACRIFICE. NOTHING.

A vow should actually hinder someone regardless of what class they have taken. As such, not casting a small list of spells does not qualify.

Also, take note that these are about as good as draconic wings as you don't need a specific subtype in order to take them and you don't need to waste a feat at a specific level to gain it, balanced by the fact that you gain flying later and that you need a good alignment.Other than requiring three feats for what amounts to 3 rounds of flight, or four for continual flight, when Winged Boots give you 15 minutes per day of 60 (good) for 16k, a Broom of Flying gives 9 hours of 40 (average) per day for 17k (and is not slotted!), a Carpet of Flying gives unlimited 40 (average) + the ability to Hover for 20k (or more, if you need more weight), and Wings of Flying grant 60 (good) with no limit for 54k? How much is a feat slot worth? Assuming you're not using the Sacred Vow to meet another requirement, you're spending 3 feats to get less than what you'd get out of Winged Boots (a 16k item). If you'd be taking the Sacred Vow anyway, you're spending 2. With another to get it up to a Carpet of Flying (which runs at 20k).

Compare to, say, the Vow of Chastity. How often does the drawback on that one come up in game? Or the Vow of Abstinance?

It's designed primarily for Fighters, Monks, Rangers, Rogues, Paladins, and so on making use of Vow of Poverty - they can't get access to Flight otherwise, without help - which leaves them out of commission at higher levels when an opponent is airborn. And even they have some mundane limitations - they can't hold a fan to help repair a damaged Air Memphit, for instance; the Fighter can't start a fire in an enclosed area to choke out an opponent he doesn't want to face directly, and so on. The limits don't just apply to spellcasters, it's just that spellcasters are the ones most likely to break those vows... and the ones with the least use of the feats to begin with (Clerics get Air Walk, Druids can take on flying forms, Wizards and Sorcerers can pick up Fly, Overland Flight, and Phantom Steed).

If you'd like, I could remove the Vow aspect and the Special aspect, leaving them as general Exalted feats, and maybe put in a dexterity requirement (similar to Touch of Golden Ice and it's Con requirement, or Holy Radiance and it's Charisma requirement).

dman11235
2008-05-28, 04:06 PM
Ability requirements are a good thing.


Compare to, say, the Vow of Chastity. How often does the drawback on that one come up in game? Or the Vow of Abstinance?

Right, but what are the benefits from those feats compared to the benefits of this one?

Vadin
2008-05-28, 04:29 PM
I, for one, think that these feats are overpowered.

The entire point of a vow is that it must be difficult at times to maintain this vow. For example, vow of poverty, vow of peace, vow of purity, and vow of obediance will all make for some difficult moments, regardless of what class you possess.

With these feats, however, a fighter, for example, could relinquish the ability to cast spells that they don't have access to in the first place in order to fly around. NO DOWNSIDE. NO SACRIFICE. NOTHING.

A vow should actually hinder someone regardless of what class they have taken. As such, not casting a small list of spells does not qualify.

The whole not fouling the air thing...think about it. No candles or fire or anything like that inside. The DM could rule it that you can't even cook inside. Not without ventilation, at least. And with the second feat, ventilation becomes a non-option. RP-wise, these could be fairly large.

Mechanically, they're roughly as painful as Vow of Chastity. Except, of course, that these might actually happen what with magic items and such.

Jack_Simth
2008-05-28, 05:07 PM
Ability requirements are a good thing.



Right, but what are the benefits from those feats compared to the benefits of this one?
+4 to Fort saves vs. Poisons and drugs, and +4 to Will saves vs. Charm and Phantasm effects. Those aren't exactly rare. They're also only two-feat chains (with the same base feat). To get any meaningful use out of this, you need at least three. To get decent use out of them, you need all four.

Falling damage is negated completely by a 1st level spell.

Flight is obtainable by a 3rd level spell, or a 16k item. One-use flight is obtainable (by all classes) with a 750 gp potion.

Continuous flight is obtainable by a 5th level spell.

How much is a feat worth? If I were to make a general feat with no requirements - Inheritance, maybe - that gave you X gold pieces on a one-time basis, that was not counted against Wealth By Level, how high would X need to be before it was worth the feat slot to you? This takes three to get any flight at all, four to get a significant amount of it. Is X more than five or six thousand GP? If so, how is a four-feat chain that essentially duplicates an item worth 20k broken?

dman11235
2008-05-28, 05:45 PM
It's not, I was just pointing out that the comparison you made is invalid.

I like the idea of these feats. It fixes one of the biggest problems with VoPov. They are far from fixing all of its problems, but well on their way towards that goal. That said, they do need work. The restrictions are weird and not really good-inclined (I mean, what's so sacred about not controlling wind?). The benefits are slightly clunky. The last one is fine, but the first two have issues. Try having it reduce the effect of falling by 10 feet per exalted feat you have. If you want you can even add a little caveat that if you have 11 or more exalted feats, you ignore falling damage completely (as per Slow Fall of the monk). The reduce damage, while not broken, can run into some issues, like, what about tumble and jump reducing falling damage? And what happens at 200'? This (with the caveat) is on the same power level without running into issues. The next one is limited flight. First off, the number of rounds is a very small number. How about having it be 5 rounds, 1/day per 2 exalted feats you have? This gives more rounds, but fewer times per day. Also, I'd have it be at your land speed. Then for the last one have it be double your land speed. That's all for now. Might come back later, I've got things to do.

Realms of Chaos
2008-05-28, 06:18 PM
All that I meant to say is that if you intend to make a vow feat, you have to make the person give up something that they can give up regardless of their class, even if that loss doesn't often come up.

For instance, a vow to not mess with the weather does not seem to fit as only a couple of select spells can accomplish such a task, something that only a couple of classes will have access to in the first place.

If you want to make "generic" exalted feats with the same basic effects, I have no problem with that. Not all exalted feats are vows and nothing in vow of poverty says that you can only take other vows as your bonus feats.

However, I just don't feel that these qualify as vows.

Jack_Simth
2008-05-28, 06:26 PM
All that I meant to say is that if you intend to make a vow feat, you have to make the person give up something that they can give up regardless of their class, even if that loss doesn't often come up.

For instance, a vow to not mess with the weather does not seem to fit as only a couple of select spells can accomplish such a task, something that only a couple of classes will have access to in the first place.

If you want to make "generic" exalted feats with the same basic effects, I have no problem with that. Not all exalted feats are vows and nothing in vow of poverty says that you can only take other vows as your bonus feats.

However, I just don't feel that these qualify as vows.

So it's not that they're overpowered, just that they shouldn't be vows as such?

Okay - that makes several people saying that they're too weak - I'll edit.

dman11235
2008-05-28, 06:29 PM
I agree RoC.

Stycotl
2008-05-28, 09:50 PM
i like the fixes. i think that the fluff is a little clunky on the first one. it states that it doesn't really slow the character, just limits the damage, but then in the fluff text it says that it does actually slow the character. i would just say that it absorbs the damage, for whatever reason, but that it doesn't really slow the character. call it an affinity with the sky or something.

also, for some reason this part of the sentance bothers me, since you use the word 'heaven' twice within a handful of words.

You have learned to use your bond with heaven to tug on the heavens a little, slowing your descent.
change it to say, "...use your bond with the celestial realm..." or something like that.

other than those nitpicks, nice job.

Jack_Simth
2008-05-29, 06:10 AM
i like the fixes. i think that the fluff is a little clunky on the first one. it states that it doesn't really slow the character, just limits the damage, but then in the fluff text it says that it does actually slow the character. i would just say that it absorbs the damage, for whatever reason, but that it doesn't really slow the character. call it an affinity with the sky or something.

also, for some reason this part of the sentance bothers me, since you use the word 'heaven' twice within a handful of words.

change it to say, "...use your bond with the celestial realm..." or something like that.

other than those nitpicks, nice job.
Okay. Edited.

Anyone have any decent ideas on how to do teleportation (on the level of Dimension Door) and Invisibility with similar short feat chains to cover the other two basic limits a non-casting VoP character has?

Fizban
2008-05-30, 09:53 PM
Teleport: how about 1/day per feat of the chain, 1st feat out to close range, 2nd to medium, and 3rd to long, move action to port? Prerequisites could vary: I could see escape artist, jump, the run feat, high int/wis/cha/dex, or just leave it prereq-free. You start with 1/day teleport out to close range as a move action, end with 3/day teleport out to long (dim door) range as a move action.

Invisibility: I want to do something with standard/move/swift action, but it'd probably be better just to stick with a standard action for the whole chain. Either start with 1 round/feat 1/feat in chain/day normal, then 1 min/feat normal, and end with 1 round/feat improved that has a separate pool. There's more combinations than I want to put together, so just ask yourself how long and how many times per day you want them to have normal and/or improved invis, and if they should come from the same pool of "charges", or separate uses per day. I'd suggest basing duration off total exalted feats, and uses/day on the feats in the chain, capping at 3 of whatever.

Jack_Simth
2008-05-30, 10:36 PM
Reasonable crunch, but what fluff?

Oooh... lantern archons... Nimbus of Light... use the same requirement chain as Nimbus of Light/Holy Radiance, and build on that....

----------------------

Archon's Step [Exalted]
You develop a fledgling bond with the lowly Lantern Archons, and through your bond, you gain a small measure of the Archons' ability to teleport ... and an enhanced glow.
Requirements: Cha 17, Nimbus of Light, Holy Radiance, Jump 8 ranks
Benefit: Once per day, you can teleport yourself and encumbrance up to 50 pounds (but not other people) as a standard action to a range of 25 feet plus 5 feet per Exalted feat you posses. This is a spell-like ability that otherwise operates as Dimension Door. Additionally, your Holy Radiance ability impoves - the Bright Light and undead damaging radius extends by 10 feet (to 20 feet), the shadowy illumination radius increases by 20 feet (to 40 feet), and the damage per round to undead within your radius of bright light increases by 1d4 per turn (to 2d4).

Archon's Stride [Exalted]
As your bond with the Lantern Archons grows, and with it, your inner light and your ability to jump from one place to another.
Requirements: Cha 19, Nimbus of Light, Holy Radiance, Archon's Step, Jump 13 ranks
Benefit: As Archon's Step, but you can now do so twice per day and the range is 100 feet plus 10 feet per Exalted feat you possess. Additionally, your Holy Radiance ability impoves - the Bright Light and undead damaging radius extends by 10 feet (to 30 feet), the shadowy illumination radius increases by 20 feet (to 60 feet), and the damage per round to undead within your radius of bright light increases by 1d4 per turn (to 3d4).

Archon's Jump [Exalted]
Your bond with the Lantern Archons achieves a fullness of glory, and with it, your inner light and your ability to Jump from one place to another does as well.
Requirements: Cha 21, Nimbus of Light, Holy Radiance, Archon's Step, Archon's Stride, Jump 18 ranks
Benefit: As Archon's Step, but you can now do so three times per day, the range is 400 feet plus 40 feet per Exalted feat you possess, and you can do so as a move action. Additionally, your Holy Radiance ability impoves - the Bright Light and undead damaging radius extends by 10 feet (to 40 feet), the shadowy illumination radius increases by 20 feet (to 80 feet), and the damage per round to undead within your radius of bright light increases by 1d4 per turn (to 4d4).

------------------

... or is that too weak?

Fizban
2008-05-30, 11:55 PM
I'd lower the cha requirement a bit, but other than that it looks good. You need a couple other feats to start, but in return you shred any undead that gets withing 40' of you. The archon fluff is great.

For invisibilty, maybe Musteval guardinals? I don't remember if they had invisibility per day or at will, but they're the NG Lantern archon equivalent. Small (Tiny?) humanoid badgers that have disguise self and hit and run magic missiles. Book of Exalted Deeds (you probably knew all that, but I'm making a case).

Edit: 1/day then. And if you want fluff for incoporeality, you could try the Coure Eladrin, which can turn into an incorporeal ball of light like the bigger eladrin.

Stycotl
2008-05-31, 12:41 AM
cool. but i think that by the time you have spent 3 feats, you ought to be able to do it more often than 3/day, especially if we are talking about making it as a sort of fix for the vop. as a half-way point, maybe you could make a 4th feat that grants it 1/1d4 rounds or something, and set it so that it can't be taken till 18th level or so.

Jack_Simth
2008-05-31, 08:22 AM
cool. but i think that by the time you have spent 3 feats, you ought to be able to do it more often than 3/day, especially if we are talking about making it as a sort of fix for the vop. as a half-way point, maybe you could make a 4th feat that grants it 1/1d4 rounds or something, and set it so that it can't be taken till 18th level or so.
Five, actually - requires Nimbus of Light (+2 Diplomacy & Sense Motive when working with good critters, and you get to shed a small amount of light when you want) and Holy Radiance (you can empower your light at will to deal... 1d4 damage per round to undead within 10 feet), neither of which are particularly useful.

However, you're right - especially as a non-casting Horizon Walker build can get Dimension Door every 1d4 rounds at character level 11. I'll make things a bit more usable, reduce the requirements somewhat, and edit the OP.

Edit:
Let's see... what to hang invisibility off of? Already did outsiders... ah, there's already an Exalted feat for a close association with Good-aligned Fey, and there's a couple of good aligned Fey that get Invisibility. That'll do....

Grig's Stealth [Exalted]
Your intimate relationship with a good aligned Fey gives you the opportunity to learn a few tricks of other good-aligned Fey, as well.
Requirements: Nymph's Kiss, Hide 6 ranks
Benefit: Once per day, as a standard action, you can turn yourself and your attended items Invisible (as the spell) for a number of minutes equal to the number of [Exalted] feats you posses. This is a spell-like ability.

Pixie's Befuddlement[Exalted]
Your intimate relationship with a good aligned Fey gives you the opportunity to learn a few tricks of other good-aligned Fey, as well.
Requirements: Nymph's Kiss, Grig's Stealth, Hide 11 ranks
Benefit: Once per day, as a standard action, you can turn yourself and your attended items Invisible (as the spell Greater Invisibility) for a number of rounds equal to the number of [Exalted] feats you posses. This is a supernatural ability.