desperatly need help finding a character class...

[Brother Numsie]

Hi, I always have a real pain finding a new character class and my last character died in a real gruesome way.

I'm in a real pickle here... I rarely play as a caster and my last character was a Warblade (my DM doesn't want another ToB monster). I really tend to fall into the same type over and over again, the high melee dmg dealer type and it's getting kinda old.

I'm playing in a high lvl campaign (lvl 18+) and I really want to play as a caster (preferrably a Druid) but I have absolutely no experience with any sort of caster. The thing that deters me from casters is the prospect of having too much paperwork, I really dislike having to sort through too much stuff, it has to be neat and tidy and easy to access.

The DM only allows official 3.5 WotC material (though we use Magic of Faerun since we play in FR and the BoED pushes the barrier since it was the first 3.5 book or so I am told).

What I am looking for is an easy to play character class with not too much paperwork dragging him down. A character class that is to maintain his own through all his class levels without the need to multiclass too much. I'm open to caster classes but as I said earlier it can't have too much paperwork involved. I just need an idea to work from, just point out to me a good solid character class and I'll work it out from there.

I have rolled the stats and if it helps, here the are: 18, 18, 17, 14, 14, 13

This is a high powered game with followers of Mystra in the party and a cleric of that god also (although heal specced but of the awesome). I getting kinda tired of having my characters imprisoned (yes I drew the card from the Deck of Many things), killed in odd ways (like falling into a pit trap only to have a wave of green slime drop in on me from above), turned into a vampire and slain by my fellow teammates, killed by a Barghest and unable to be revived because of it's special ability, one shotted with a crit from a Harm spell, etc.
As you can see I need a really survivable character class and I'm tired of having to cheese everything to the max...

Please help me...

[Azerian Kelimon]

If you're just beginning, I'd take a Sorcerer, a Psion, or a Beguiler. All of them are extremely easy to learn, and all of them are incredibly cool. The beguiler is also a competent skillmonkey almost out of the box.

[JaxGaret]

I'm playing in a high lvl campaign (lvl 18+) and I really want to play as a caster (preferrably a Druid) but I have absolutely no experience with any sort of caster. The thing that deters me from casters is the prospect of having too much paperwork, I really dislike having to sort through too much stuff, it has to be neat and tidy and easy to access.

The DM only allows official 3.5 WotC material (though we use Magic of Faerun since we play in FR and the BoED pushes the barrier since it was the first 3.5 book or so I am told).

What I am looking for is an easy to play character class with not too much paperwork dragging him down. A character class that is to maintain his own through all his class levels without the need to multiclass too much. I'm open to caster classes but as I said earlier it can't have too much paperwork involved. I just need an idea to work from, just point out to me a good solid character class and I'll work it out from there.

This is a high powered game with followers of Mystra in the party and a cleric of that god also (although heal specced but of the awesome). I getting kinda tired of having my characters imprisoned (yes I drew the card from the Deck of Many things), killed in odd ways (like falling into a pit trap only to have a wave of green slime drop in on me from above), turned into a vampire and slain by my fellow teammates, killed by a Barghest and unable to be revived because of it's special ability, one shotted with a crit from a Harm spell, etc.
As you can see I need a really survivable character class and I'm tired of having to cheese everything to the max...

Please help me...

Play a Spirit Shaman. They're like Druids with a lot less paperwork. Protip: take the Dynamic Priest feat to make their casting Cha-only.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Play a Spirit Shaman. They're like Druids with a lot less paperwork. Protip: take the Dynamic Priest feat to make their casting Cha-only.

He said the campaign was High powered, man. Not that he wants to be Highly Useless.

[JaxGaret]

He said the campaign was High powered, man. Not that he wants to be Highly Useless.

What, Spirit Shamans aren't powerful enough for you? Their prep/spont hybrid mechanic is awesome, and with access to all WotC books, they have a wide variety of great spells to choose from.

Plus he was already owning with a Warblade, a melee attacker in a high-level game, so it's not like the campaign is hyper-optimized to the point where only Batman Wizards can compete.

[jcsw]

If you're worried about paperwork, any spontaneous casting class should do fine, like the previously mentioned sorcerer, psion, and beguiler. Some others are Warlock, Favored Soul....

Personally I like psions myself, especially telepaths, except that my DM has been intentionally or unintentionally sending only stuff immune to dominates at me.

[Reel On, Love]

He said the campaign was High powered, man. Not that he wants to be Highly Useless.

Look up "Whirlwind, Greater" in the Spell Compendium.

No character who can spam that is in any way 'useless'.

[Azerian Kelimon]

What, Spirit Shamans aren't powerful enough for you? Their prep/spont hybrid mechanic is awesome, and with access to all WotC books, they have a wide variety of great spells to choose from.

For a normal campaign, maybe. For a high powered campaign, they fall short. Note that with High Power campaign I'm thinking of cheesed ToBBers, Factotums with 20 standard actions a round, and Batman Wizards.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Look up "Whirlwind, Greater" in the Spell Compendium.

No character who can spam that is in any way 'useless'.

A single spell Awesome does not make.

No, not even Enervation or Solid Fog.

Edit: Not to mention, it's level NINE. If that's your only trump card, you suck, harder than a Flurry of blows monk. Seriously, it's a disgrace for casters or the class system in general.

[cupkeyk]

I second sorc or some other spontaneous caster like beguiler, but not dread necro because micromanaging your undead army will be a headache.

Keep index cards of your spells and use solo's guide to get the best spells for each level.

[JaxGaret]

For a normal campaign, maybe. For a high powered campaign, they fall short. Note that with High Power campaign I'm thinking of cheesed ToBBers, Factotums with 20 standard actions a round, and Batman Wizards.

The OP claimed a high powered campaign, but this


This is a high powered game with followers of Mystra in the party and a cleric of that god also (although heal specced but of the awesome).

suggests otherwise. I mean, really, a healing-specialized Cleric? In a high-powered game, competing with Batman for power?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

18 Wis, 18 Con, 17 Int. All level up bonuses go to Wis. Take Natural Spell.

Make a list of all the spells you usually prepare, with a short excerpt saying what they do. Mark them off as you use them. That should help with paperwork, as will having a list of about 10 forms you Wildshape into on a regular basis, complete with a statblock for while you're in that form.

[Azerian Kelimon]

The OP claimed a high powered campaign, but this



suggests otherwise. I mean, really, a healing-specialized Cleric? In a high-powered game, competing with Batman for power?

I doubt it's in there, but never underestimate healers. There was a build that transformed Radiant Servant of Pelor pumped Heals into Ubercharger-esque damaging attacks. It was tricky, but fearsome.

[cupkeyk]

18 Wis, 18 Con, 17 Int. All level up bonuses go to Wis. Take Natural Spell.

Make a list of all the spells you usually prepare, with a short excerpt saying what they do. Mark them off as you use them. That should help with paperwork, as will having a list of about 10 forms you Wildshape into on a regular basis, complete with a statblock for while you're in that form.

Only a zoomaster shapeshifter is not easy to manage at all. You will have to research the best forms, the best summons and the best spells. If we are looking at powerful with minimal micromanagement, druid is never the path to go.

[JaxGaret]

Only a zoomaster shapeshifter is not easy to manage at all. You will have to research the best forms, the best summons and the best spells. If we are looking at powerful with minimal micromanagement, druid is never the path to go.

Indeed. This was the reasoning for my suggestion, basically: The SS is a Druid without most of the paperwork, and yes, less power. Because almost anything is less powerful than Druid20, anyway.

[cupkeyk]

Indeed. This was the reasoning for my suggestion, basically: The SS is a Druid without most of the paperwork, and yes, less power. Because almost anything is less powerful than Druid20, anyway.

I am sorry, but I also think that spirit shaman sucks as a class.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Aye. Favored Soul could possibly be an idea, for example. But SS? No way.

Though I AM having doubts on the skills at optimizing the DM has, if he banned ToB...

[Neftren]

Duskblade is an excellent individual for a person like you. You are quite similar to myself, with the fact that I absolutely hate paperwork. Duskblades are excellent in melee combat, and are easily adaptable to the situation. On top of that, there is an extremely limited spell list and spells known, which will let you conserve on blank spaces. There are some nifty methods of achieving high damage outputs, and seems like a good mesh with your traditional melee-type with your newfound interest in a caster.

[JaxGaret]

I am sorry, but I also think that spirit shaman sucks as a class.

Really? Why, exactly?

I know that the Druid list is the least powerful of the core three full casters, but it's not that much worse, especially with unfettered access to splatbooks. And it gets to cast spontaneously, without losing spellcasting progression like a spont caster, and also gets to swap out its spells every day.

Perhaps the issue is how good it is at high levels? Admittedly, I haven't looked at what a high level SS can do, but in the mid levels, they seem quite strong to me. They're a full caster, after all.

[monty]

Commoner. Or, if you really want to be cheesy and overpowered, Aristocrat.

Seriously, though, any spontaneous caster would be good for you. Personally, I've always liked Favored Souls. The class features aren't spectacular (no domains, particularly) but if you really want those, just PrC.

[cupkeyk]

Aye. Favored Soul could possibly be an idea, for example. But SS? No way.

Though I AM having doubts on the skills at optimizing the DM has, if he banned ToB...


True, since a Favored soul is mad and he has two 18's making a favored soul wouldn't be stupid. The weapon focus/wesapon spec feats a favored soul gets are stupid. There are substitution levels about that remove those.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'll second Warlock.


What I am looking for is an easy to play character class with not too much paperwork dragging him down. A character class that is to maintain his own through all his class levels without the need to multiclass too much. I'm open to caster classes but as I said earlier it can't have too much paperwork involved. I just need an idea to work from, just point out to me a good solid character class and I'll work it out from there.

The Warlock is a fairly balanced class, easy to use, with very little paperwork. It's great for people without a lot of spellcaster experience, and they make good blasters (so you can still deal a lot of damage and have decent range as well).

Take a couple of area Blast Shapes, the Essence that lets you do acid damage, and max UMD. Choose a variety of useful invocations (fell flight, chill tentacles, et al). Maybe take some item creation feats.

[Jack_Simth]

Hi, I always have a real pain finding a new character class and my last character died in a real gruesome way.

I'm in a real pickle here... I rarely play as a caster and my last character was a Warblade (my DM doesn't want another ToB monster). I really tend to fall into the same type over and over again, the high melee dmg dealer type and it's getting kinda old.

I'm playing in a high lvl campaign (lvl 18+) and I really want to play as a caster (preferrably a Druid) but I have absolutely no experience with any sort of caster. The thing that deters me from casters is the prospect of having too much paperwork, I really dislike having to sort through too much stuff, it has to be neat and tidy and easy to access.

The DM only allows official 3.5 WotC material (though we use Magic of Faerun since we play in FR and the BoED pushes the barrier since it was the first 3.5 book or so I am told).

What I am looking for is an easy to play character class with not too much paperwork dragging him down. A character class that is to maintain his own through all his class levels without the need to multiclass too much. I'm open to caster classes but as I said earlier it can't have too much paperwork involved. I just need an idea to work from, just point out to me a good solid character class and I'll work it out from there.

I have rolled the stats and if it helps, here the are: 18, 18, 17, 14, 14, 13

This is a high powered game with followers of Mystra in the party and a cleric of that god also (although heal specced but of the awesome). I getting kinda tired of having my characters imprisoned (yes I drew the card from the Deck of Many things), killed in odd ways (like falling into a pit trap only to have a wave of green slime drop in on me from above), turned into a vampire and slain by my fellow teammates, killed by a Barghest and unable to be revived because of it's special ability, one shotted with a crit from a Harm spell, etc.
As you can see I need a really survivable character class and I'm tired of having to cheese everything to the max...

Please help me...

Let's see....

You want a way to play a Druid without too much paperwork? Okay. Nice rolls, by the way. For a Druid at that level, that's Wis > Con > Int > Rest. Level boosts all go to Wisdom.

First, do a lot of prep work
1) Make your spell lists. Yes, plural. You have three basic lists, that are really just simple mods on a master list: Dungeon, Travel, and City. The difference between the three lists is a small matter - no more than about one spell per spell level. Also, make several photocopies (or print several copies of each); simply cross off spells as you use them.
2) Stat out a few common forms (a medium combat form, a Large Combat Form, a Flying Combat Form, and a flying stealth form); pre-stat them in their entirety, including with and without basic buff spells).

Basic Build:
Monk-1/Druid-15/Contemplative-X (for the bonus domain - Druid-15 gets you most the goodies you'll want; Luck domain gets you Miracle, Pride domain lets you reroll all those pesky 1's on your saving throws... and you ought to have really, really good saving throws), take the Vow of Poverty (so you don't need to stop and figure out what equipment does and does not apply in your current form, primarily, but it also has a few nifties that you don't get any other way pre-epic). You'll want a few reserve feats - Minor Shapeshift and Dimensional Jaunt, namely. Minor Shapeshift increased your durability (keep Baelful Polymorph prepared) - swift-action temp HP = Character level, usable at will. Dimensional Jaunt is your Get out of Jail free card - standard action Su teleportation to anywhere you've got line of sight within range (5 feet per spell level of the spell used - keep Tree Stride prepared). If you can get some turning in with a PrC somewhere, consider picking up Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) - goes great with Vigorous Circlel fast healing for the entire party all day.

In the morning, you activate some Barkskin (keep several copies - it's only 10 minutes per level, but at this level, about three hours per casting - fill your 2nd level slots, and you're covered every waking moment).

If you want to cheese it up a little, play an Elan who got trapped somewhere for a millennium after gaining Timeless Body. +3 Int, Wis, and Charisma for free (and no max age, to boot, so no death by old age).

As a bonus, you're playable at any level.

[mabriss lethe]

Warlocks and Dragonfire Adepts, while not exactly druid-esque in any way, shape, or form, are the absolute easiest casters to use. Limited but extremely useful list of invocations, all usable at will. Both are very resilient classes with a host of class features that make them harder to take down than you'd expect.

If you absolutely had to make a druid-like warlock, it would be possible. The Fey heritage feats generally mesh well with warlocks and could help cement a ties-to-nature sort of character. Here are some ideas off the top of my head, This probably won't be the most optimized warlock idea ever, or even close. just an exercise in possibilities.

Call of the Beast would give you access to wild empathy and speak to animals

Witchwood step and/or Entropic warding for more druidy-like stuff. (gaining access to pass /wo trace, immunity to entanglement, )

Shapshifting is a bit of a problem, but Hellspawned grace allows you to transform into a hellcat. not optimal, but useful from time to time.

Mask of flesh gives you some minor disguise self-style shapshifting...though you have make a touch attack to do it.

Caustic Mire, Nightmare Terrain, earthen/stone grasp could all be very druid-y invocations.

At level 18 you'll have access to dark invocations which can give you a host of at-will fun, but very few are what you'd consider nature aspected.

as for an animal companion, you might take leadership @ 6th and then pick up an animal-like cohort.

[Dode]

He said the campaign was High powered, man. Not that he wants to be Highly Useless.

I dunno, I'm playing a Shaman summoner in a game and he's far from useless. Admittedly, they're very limited at low levels but once they start getting a wider spell variety, their Guide-following and Incorporeal abilities, they become a pretty strong class.

[sonofzeal]

Psion's probably your best bet. IMO Spirit Shamans and Warlocks won't cut it at that level in a highpowered game without massive optimization (although they can hold their own in a midpower game). Psions are quite easily on par with (cheese-less) Wizards, but have somewhat less paperwork since you don't need to track spellslots and don't buy extra spells. Psions (especially kineticists) make substantially better blasters than Wizards do, but have a fair breadth of utility and save-or-suck as well. You'll need to prepare a sheet with point form description of your powers, but that's not too hard. Example from my current sheet:


LVL5 - 9 pp, DC 24
Fiery Discorporation (Will DC 5+damage = deus ex, 24 hour)
Power Resistance (SR/PR 24, 12 min)
Major Creation
Plane Shift

LVL6 - 11 pp, DC 25
Overland Flight (speed 40; 12 hours)
Temporal Accelleration (Time Stop for 1 bonus round; 15 pp = 2 rounds)
Contingency (75 gp; 12 days)
Cloud Mind, Mass (12 targets; Will Negates; 12 min)

[Brother Numsie]

Thanks for the quick response... I looked at the Favored Soul when I was trying to find a class and it looks good BUT there's one snag, the party is a party of Mystra followers and the favored weapon for Mystra is the Shuriken... also there's a house rule in effect that prevents divine casters of different gods to affect those not of their faith. (long sentance :smallsmile:)

Duskblade is a cool class and I must admit I am really drawn towards it, especially since my mind is always working on possible combinations and I found one fun full attack combo that would be cool with a Duskblade: past level 13 when he gains a full attack with a touch spell (Touch of Idocity - possibly empowered - with rapid metamagic feat), weapon with the Shattermantle quality and possibly spell storing for some extra power on the first strike... plus some other pretty things... :)

I've also looked at both the Beguiler and the Warmage as a possibility, and the Warmage with the Esoteric thingie from PHB2 is allowed, also a Warmage with levels in nHoly Scourge is very appealing...

I haven't really looked at the Spirit Shaman in detail and don't find it attractive... Dragonfire Adept is more appealing that Warlock since the clerics frown upon the use of infernal powers...

Yes, I forgot to mention that there are two clerics in our party of 6, both Mystra followers, one is a healer and the other is a battle cleric able to out damage anyone and has a contingiency to everything (and I mean everything... he has actually repaired dead magic areas on more than one occasion, he can cast spells within an antimagic zone and the like)... so the rest of us HAVE to optimize our characters to be able to stand a chance against the über foes we face...

Imagine a crazed Wizard transmutation specialist who keeps a pet Half-Rust Dragon Rust Monster with cheese on top in his tower... I mean we lost most of our metal equipment against that monster and it was "awakened" to boot...

Is a spontaneous Druid a good option? (from UA)

Also how do you like this build: Wild Shaping Ranger 5 (UA), Nature's Warrior 1 (with crocodile armor ability), Warshaper 5, Master of Many Forms 7. With a favored form as a War Troll? it's just a thought...

I will probably be going with a template called Phrenic with a +2 LA adjustment with full LA buy-off from (UA)... yes we use UA alot and in particular the Weapon Group feats...

we also get 2 extra skill points added per level and for the first level it's an extra 8 skill points...

[sonofzeal]

Also how do you like this build: Wild Shaping Ranger 5 (UA), Nature's Warrior 1 (with crocodile armor ability), Warshaper 5, Master of Many Forms 7. With a favored form as a War Troll? it's just a thought...
Could be good, but Wildshape is one of the most paperwork-intensive class features ever. If you do, I'd choose one to three specialized forms for different tasks and use them for everything.

Favored Soul - decent. Generally concidered as slightly inferior to Clerics, but the Wings are nice. Can definitelly compete at that level, as "slightly inferior to Cleric" is akin to being "slightly shorter than the CN Tower"

Duskblade - again, pretty good. Can't really comment, haven't seem them played past lvl 8.

Warmage - universally despised, for reasons I won't comment on. If you want to blast, play a Sorc or a Kineticist Psion.

Beguiler - solidly good class, but a lot of things at that level are immune to mind-affecting powered, which can totally nerf you. Otherwise you can dominate.

[cupkeyk]

Thanks for the quick response... I looked at the Favored Soul when I was trying to find a class and it looks good BUT there's one snag, the party is a party of Mystra followers and the favored weapon for Mystra is the Shuriken... also there's a house rule in effect that prevents divine casters of different gods to affect those not of their faith. (long sentance :smallsmile:)

As I mentioned, you can replace the free weapon feats with other substituition levels, like in complete champion or ph2.

[monty]

Now, if you really want to play a high-powered caster without a lot of paperwork or optimization, start as a spontaneous Druid and then go into Planar Shepherd. Powerful enough a comatose person could probably win with it, and not a lot of hard decisions you have to make beyond picking the best plane for your style.

[Brother Numsie]

Hmm... isn't Dynamic Priest from Dragonlance? if so, then that feat is out of the question, because we only use 3.5 WotC books and the FR books... could be cool though...

I had an idea earlier but I scrapped it because I didn't think it would work well... but this is it: Duskblade ? / Rainbow Servant ?
not sure how well it would work tho...

[Brother Numsie]

is there a way for an arcane caster to be able to cast ranged spells through a wepon? The Duskblade can do it with spells with the range of touch and I was wondering if there's a way for him to cast spells through his weapon that have a greater range...

[Brother Numsie]

Also... if I choose to go with a Duskblade what are some good PrC options for it that won't sacrifice too many caster levels...?

[Tokiko Mima]

As you can see I need a really survivable character class and I'm tired of having to cheese everything to the max...

Please help me...

How about a Hellfire Glaivelock? A good build would be Pixie Warlock 12(Complete Arcane)/Hellfire Warlock 2 or 3 (Fiendish Codex II)/Uncanny Trickster X (Complete Scoundrel) (You could also use Legacy Champion I suppose, but Skill Tricks are fun whereas Legacy weapons are kinda useless, especially to a warlock.) Be sure and take Eldritch Glaive (from Dragon Magic) as one of your least invocations. Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest) from Magic of Incarnum or failing that, a Rod of Bodily Restoration or two (Magic Item Compendium) are also essential to get the most out of Hellfire Blast.

You'll still be able to do massive damage, but more from a range with a caster perspective since your HP is lower and your armor isn't tank-like. If you feel a might puckish, you can still deal really horrific damage in melee combat with your glaive.

You're also extremely survivable, able to go invisible at will and fly with a very reasonable speed. Pixies have DR 10/cold iron and spell resistance equal to 15 + class levels, so it would take a focused effort from your foes (or admittedly, any Batman wizard) to drop you.

It's also uncomplicated, as you have a fixed list of Invocations and racial SLA's to use, but they are abilities that lend themselves to creative uses. Just the 1/day permanent image SLA alone can be extremely entertaining to use.

[sonofzeal]

Also... if I choose to go with a Duskblade what are some good PrC options for it that won't sacrifice too many caster levels...?
Depends what you want. Any "gish" PrC is great for them, since they get in practically for free - Spellsword, Arcane Archer, Eldritch Knight, Jade Phoneix Mage, etc. Which you go for depends on personal playstyle.

[Temp.]

Depends what you want. Any "gish" PrC is great for them, since they get in practically for free - Spellsword, Arcane Archer, Eldritch Knight, Jade Phoneix Mage, etc. Which you go for depends on personal playstyle.
None of those really gain anything. The Duskblade just doesn't do well with Pretige classing (Examples: EK is strictly worse than a 1-level dip in Fighter; Abjurant Champion's abilities are all wasted--A good Fortitude Save and somewhat-useful class abilities are lost in exchange for 5 HP; Spellsword loses caster levels to give you abilities you already have).

A Crusader dip followed by Jade Phoenix Mage is probably your best bet, if you want to leave straight Duskblade for the sake of leaving straight Duskblade (Warblade's sort of a trap. It nerfs your maneuver advancement, the whole reason of taking JPM, to boost the least important save in the game).

Rainbow Servant is terrible. It hurts your BAB and spellcasting in order to improve your spell list at level 22. That means you have to wait until epic levels to earn the ability to learn 5th level Cleric spells and until level 23 for the option to actually learn them.

[Neftren]

Also... if I choose to go with a Duskblade what are some good PrC options for it that won't sacrifice too many caster levels...?


Depends what you want. Any "gish" PrC is great for them, since they get in practically for free - Spellsword, Arcane Archer, Eldritch Knight, Jade Phoneix Mage, etc. Which you go for depends on personal playstyle.

Eew. No. Spellsword just sucks. Arcane Archer is shooty, where the Duskblade is melee. Eldritch Knight isn't fun with Duskblade either, and JPM involves having to dip into a ToB class, thus losing you levels and increasing the paperwork involved.

I suggest you take Practiced Spellcaster to get a +4 CL boost if you take a PrC that doesn't have full casting. Straight 18 levels of Duskblade is very powerful. Check out the Duskblade's Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=837888) over on Gleemax.

[Nohwl]

I have rolled the stats and if it helps, here the are: 18, 18, 17, 14, 14, 13



can you roll stats for my next character?

[Frosty]

Can anyone calculate the chances of getting those stats with a 4d6 drop lowest roll? Astronomically low?

[Nohwl]

the only way i got stats close to those is when one dm said to reroll anything under 10.

[Xsjado]

Ranger in my last group had similar stats, but he didn't have a witness and was a complete munchkin most of the time (except he didn't know the rules well enough to be too uber). That said is possible and I'd prefer to give someone the benefit of the doubt, at least until I meet them in person. If I got those rolls I'd probably re-take them because I'm a sucker like that and don't like to have a game breaking character.

[Brother Numsie]

Regarding my stat rolls, I have always been EXTREMELY lucky when rolling for stats and HP's but when I roll for anything else I suck big time... like getting 3 natural 1's in a row like 7 times over 18 levels... or getting a natural 1 only to hit a friendly and roll 3 natural 20's... my rolls are usually to the extreme (the reason I avoid Vorpal and any weapon quality that activates on a crit or natural 20)...

Regarding the Hellfire Warlock... the group frowns upon the Warlock class as a PC and my GM will probably let them attack me if I show up as a warlock :smalleek:

[Brother Numsie]

here's a silly question:

The "Touch Spell Specialization" from Complete Arcane states you get a +2 on damage rolls. Would that work with spells like Touch of Idiocity that do ability damage?


Also I'm leaning towards the Duskblade since I feel I need to start as a regular caster from scratch to be able to get the feel for it. It's like jumping into a blaster role in some MMORPG on a character that has been power leveled...

[Azerian Kelimon]

here's a silly question:

The "Touch Spell Specialization" from Complete Arcane states you get a +2 on damage rolls. Would that work with spells like Touch of Idiocity that do ability damage?

Nope, it only boosts normal damage. As a wiseman would say...

http://photo.gangus.com/d/26788-2/ackbar.jpg

[Brother Numsie]

So... I'm going with the Duskblade but how should I allocate my stats?
18, 18, 17, 14, 14, 13

I will be going with either Half-Fey or Phrenic templates with a full LA buy-off.

Any race I should be looking at in particular? I was looking at the Catfolk in regards to the Catfolk Pounce feat... LA +3 is no problem... although I will only have a lvl 17 character (with a gp value as a lvl 18 which is 440.000 gp)...

I might even go with the Bahamut race from races of the dragon or I might look at a race with LA +0 and go with the Half-Dragon template... hmmm, Illumian with a Half-Dragon template with Aeshkrau sygil combo for STR being the bonus spells ability...

any ideas???

[Brother Numsie]

Would a warforged character be a good choice for a Duskblade???

[Brother Numsie]

how about one level dip into the Sandshaper PrC? That gives a load of "spells known"...

[evisiron]

I would go with Warlock.

I started playing one in a new campaign, and having a lot of fun with it.
It is not the most powerful class, but is much less paperwork heavy and much more resilient than typical casters.

Plus fun things like permanent flight at at will Dimensional Door (that leaves a major image behind for a round) make the Warlock very tricky to pin down and kill.

[Brother Numsie]

The group I'm playing with doesn't allow the Warlock class... they think it's evil and so does the DM... I've tried reasoning with them but they won't budge on the subject...

[sonofzeal]

The group I'm playing with doesn't allow the Warlock class... they think it's evil and so does the DM... I've tried reasoning with them but they won't budge on the subject...
They read the bit about how Warlocks can be Chaotic Good, right? And you can always re-flavour them into a Fey theme with hardly any work.

And I still think Psion is a good way to go. Warlock is the minimum paperwork for a caster, but hard to keep compeditive at that level with CoDzillas running around (Warlocks make great plinkers, but if it comes down to plinking you're probably in trouble already). Psions are closer to Wizards in the amount of paperwork, but I'd say they're still marginally easier to keep track of, and are right at the top of the power curve at that level. I'd highly recommend Psion 8 / Slayer 10 for your level; you only lose one manifester level, but gain d8 hd, full bab, and a bucketload of class features.

[Brother Numsie]

well... they do know a warlock can be of a chaotic alignment but they're set on the Warlock being evil and I can't change their mind... but I'm gonna go with the Duskblade, just need to figure out what race I'm gonna be... if I go with a LA+1 race then I'm taking a template with LA +1 or +2 (and no the Saint template from BoED is out of the question)... or if I choose a LA+0 race I might go all the way up to a LA+3 template like Half-Dragon...

Illumian Half-Dragon with Aesh and Krau racial sigils gets and increase in CL if I take like 1 lvl in Sandshaper and a bonus on all STR related checks... also gets to use his STR value to determine bonus spells...

Also is the Exalted Arcanist any good for a PrC dip?

[Brother Numsie]

how about the Demonwrecker PrC from the Demonweb Pits adventure? He gets his PrC level to breach the SR of chaotic or evil outsiders and on lvl 5 he automatically overcomes the SR of chaotic outsiders... his HD lowers by one type and gets the worst BAB and only WILL save as his best save... also gets to smite with his spells... is this class a good choice for a Duskblade?

[Xsjado]

Sacrificing HD and BAB is pretty much the worst thing you can do to a duskblade. They're already fragile for a frontline fighter and if they can't hit with their melee attack then they don't get their channelled damage either which doesn't help matters.

Duskblades work fine one their own and I'd be quite happy to go all the way to 20 with them. It wouldn't be optimum but branching out into nearly anything else tends to rapidly reduce the effectiveness of your class features. PrCing just for the sake of isn't worth the power loss. I've never played one into 16+ though so I don't know how that would pan out.

[Brother Numsie]

So, I've decided on a race + template and that will be a Half-Dragon Wood Elf and with the ability bonuses of both race and template I end up with +10 STR and +2 DEX and various other things...

I will be going full Duskblade (despite my mind continual search for optimizing), because I see a huge benefit from holding onto as much BAB and CL as possible...

I won't be using a reach weapon or a 2-h weapon for that matter as I want as much use from my shield as possible. I will be going for a big dmg weapon I can use in one hand such as Dwarven Waraxe, Bastard Sword or Great Scimitar...

I will be going for a mithril version of a Heavy Plate (+9 AC) with an adamantium shield, both the armor and the shield will have a +5 enhancement bonus to AC, the armor will have heavy fortification and the shield will most likely have the Soulfire special ability.

I will be using the alternate body slot rules from Magic Item Compendium, like Bracers of Natural Armor +5 and such...

The weapon will have +5 enhancement to attack and damage as well as the wounding property and perhaps some others, or I might bump it down to +3 and wounding + speed for a total +8 weapon...

After I'm done there won't be many enemies I can't hit and I'll probably be able to hit myself very easily... and against fighter types I'll be using Touch of Idiocity (yes, I know it's mind-affecting)...

I just want to thank you all for your help... :smallsmile:

[Brother Numsie]

here's an idea tho for epic levels... I don't know if it's optimal but the concept is cool...

Monk 20 / Duskblade 13

or as a Gestalt version Monk-Duskblade 20, but I guess the stats have to be huge for it to pay off... then again why go with a monk when you could be a Duskblade-Sorcerer 20... well you get the picture :)

[Brother Numsie]

one thing is baffling me... what type of Ring of Wizardry should I take if I only pick one type?

[UserClone]

If you're going Half-Dragon, do yourself a favor: be a half-Ethereal Dragon(info on template in RoTD; actual dragon is in Draconomicon - breath weapon is a cone of FORCE!) and take the Dragon Breath feat (races of the dragon) so you can breathe once every 1d4 rounds. This also opens the way to metabreath feats (draconomicon), especially Recover breath, which lowers the time between breaths by 1 round, to a minimum of 1. Also, Quicken Breath. [/half-dragon rant]

[Draz74]

I'll throw in another vote for either Psion or Dragonfire Adept.

If you choose Psion (Egoist), you can even be a pretty good healer (much like your original Druid idea). Not as good as a Cleric, but pretty good if you know the right way to arrange things.

And Dragonfire Adept is just fun. And available online.

[seedjar]

Is your name a reference to The Golden Child? Pick anything; you can't fail. My two cents is druid - check out the druid guide and look into druid/arcane crossover builds. Does this divine magic houseruse bar your spells from effecting animals, plants or you?
~Joe

[Azerian Kelimon]

here's an idea tho for epic levels... I don't know if it's optimal but the concept is cool...

Monk 20 / Duskblade 13

or as a Gestalt version Monk-Duskblade 20, but I guess the stats have to be huge for it to pay off... then again why go with a monk when you could be a Duskblade-Sorcerer 20... well you get the picture :)

Monk = Made of Lose.

Seriously. It's a recipe for disaster. ANYTHING is gonna be better than Monk.

[Brother Numsie]

ok... now i'm really peeved... there's a girl in my group who is the captain of the debate team in school and she tore through my character like it was tissue paper... she pointed out every flaw in my build and started convincing all the others how much crap my character was... even I started to believe her at one point and now she has ruined the entire Duskblade class for me... if I start thinking about it I get depressed... I'm sure she still holds a grudge since we were kids and she told me I was going to be her boyfriend no matter what and I just said no (but I'm sure she has forgotten all about it... hasn't she?)...

ok, here's basically what she said: I can't heal as a pure Duskblade, I can't buff as well as others in my party, my whole repertoire is combat oriented, I lack the ability to be in a social position (which I do in real life anyway), I can't cast spells higher than level 5, I have a crappy HD (so does she, she's the über battle cleric/ dweomer keeper / ??? / ??? / ??? / etc. of Mystra and does like 70 dmg per hit and with something called persistent spell and blahdiblahblah)... she friggin' destroyed every aspect of my character... the only thing she liked was the backstory and the point where my face started to turn red from anger (man I would like to slap her silly little smug face with a cold and wet trout, but she's a girl and I don't do that)...

what I need is a jack of all with not so much paperwork... would a Paladin/ Gray Guard/ ??? ne any good at that? or a full Factotum? or someone with Legacy Champion PrC levels... or just a plain old Druid? perhaps a tricky sort of fellow (can't be a gnome, aside from the Warlock the entire group just plain and simple hate everything there is about Gnomes, I like 'em but they don't, out voted and everything)... I used to be pretty good at playing the Techie in Cyberpunk in the old days (who needs social skills when you can make a nuke out of a toaster and the TV-Remote)... Iron Kingdoms rules because I "throw a hammer at it" pretty well :)...

someone told me that a Batman wizard is the way to go... but what is a Batman wizard and is there such a thing as a Batman Druid??? perhaps I should just go with my comfort zone and make a monk... perhaps I could make a Bard/ Lyric Thaumaturge... dammit I can't think about the Duskblade and they're gonna start playing again tomorrow with or without me... I really want to know how that campaign story ends without having to be told what happened...

combat oriented she says... hmm... how about a Changeling Fighter (or Swashbuckler)/ Dervish/ Warshaper... no that won't do I need something that ... damn I'm really put down... I might just quit this entire thing if I can't show her (them) that I'm not all brute and no brain... how good is the Bard?

[Azerian Kelimon]

That girl's a goddanged idiot. Really, tell her this:

"Huh, so I can't do jack in combat?

Really?

Maximized Shocking Grasp on a full attack, bitch.

And eat an empowered Combust while you're at it."

Just ignore her. You're there to have fun, not to be her lackey.

And if she keeps bothering you, get an Incantatrix Wizard, kill her with a single super ultra buffed Enervation of doom, commit suicide, and pick up your duskblade, to the tune of "Who's useless now, punk?".

[seedjar]

My "Batman Druid" is using action points and related feats to turn Eberron's Spontaneous Casting into a freebie. Other than that, Natural Spell and you're already ahead of 95% of the class.
~Joe

PS - Druid Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=465005)

[Brother Numsie]

that would be great... but... I can't hit her even with touch attacks... she's immune to energy drain and ability damage, her self buffs are unaffected by antimagic zones and areas... she can't even hit herself...

we use action points but not feats or magic from Eberron or PrC's for that matter...

it's too late for me to try to play the Duskblade... she completely ruined the fun factor of playing that class for me...

regarding the Psion or Psychic Warrior or Wilder... I'm not too keen on those classes and the campaign doesn't include psychic classes except the Soulknife...

[Pie Guy]

I vote Feylock- take a warlock and revamp all the fluff to be good and hey fey heritage. Problem solved. You have a caster with no downtime, spell slots or limits.

Stop being so paranoid. There's no deaththreat.

Also, I don't own the books. Am I getting This right?
Note: Find the hidden deaththreat!

[Azerian Kelimon]

that would be great... but... I can't hit her even with touch attacks... she's immune to energy drain and ability damage, her self buffs are unaffected by antimagic zones and areas... she can't even hit herself...

we use action points but not feats or magic from Eberron or PrC's for that matter...

it's too late for me to try to play the Duskblade... she completely ruined the fun factor of playing that class for me...

regarding the Psion or Psychic Warrior or Wilder... I'm not too keen on those classes and the campaign doesn't include psychic classes except the Soulknife...


She's not immune to level drain. Enervation kills her dead. BOOM, BABY! Next!

Also, could you get her sheet and upload it? There probably is something wrong about it if you can't hit her with touch attacks.

[Chronicled]

Your job as a Duskblade isn't to buff or heal, so there's no reason for you to be good at it. What you can do for out of combat usefulness is be a walking dictionary, since Duskblades get all the Knowledges and have a high Int.

Also, if she's using Persistent Spell, it's cheesy enough that most any cheese you use is acceptable. For fun, talk to your DM about having an enemy with Greater Dispel Magic who tears away all her precious Persisted buffs and turns her into a weakling for the rest of the day. Or Sunder her holy symbol while she's praying in the morning.

FYI, a Batman Wizard is a Wizard with an answer to every situation (his spells are his "utility belt").

If you really want to piss this rude girl off, search for Emperor Tippy's Wizard/Incantrix build named Cindy. At level 18, she can deal over 300 damage per (almost guaranteed to hit) shot and is nigh-invulnerable, barring a DM fiat death (which will end up looking quite contrived). Yes, you'd kill her with a damage wizard. Which will really tick off most newbie optimizers.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Indeed, that girl deserves a lesson for being an ass, and apparently an insufferable munchkin/insufferable powergamer.

[Arbitrarity]

Hm.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=478716
I think that works well enough at 18... but it's a cleric... but its also invulnerable, so no problems there.

Or, if we want to say no cleric for super-cheese, I'll keep searching.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Numsie: Question, how much of a doormat is your DM? And is that girl dating or sleeping with him/her? There's NO way a high Dex duskblade can't hit a cleric with touch attacks.

[Cuddly]

No, not even Enervation or Solid Fog.

Those aren't that awesome. They're extremely situational. Solid Fog, half the time, isn't going to do anything but waste an action.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Those aren't that awesome. They're extremely situational. Solid Fog, half the time, isn't going to do anything but waste an action.

If the enemy doesn't have freedom of movement, that's two to five rounds of prep time. If that's not valuable, NOTHING is.

And yeah, enervation just wins. The no comment on it points it out nicely.

[Cuddly]

If the enemy doesn't have freedom of movement, that's two to five rounds of prep time. If that's not valuable, NOTHING is.

Too bad a level 2 spell pwns it.


And yeah, enervation just wins. The no comment on it points it out nicely.

Unless it's a construct, undead, uses death ward, or has any of the other bajillion immunities to negative energy.

[Brother Numsie]

the thing about this girl is that she knows the FR campaign system inside and out, you name something in some FR book or books and she can tell you what books it appears in and 95% of the time on what page and where... no joke... we've tested her... she's an over achiever from hell... she's not dating the DM but most of the house rules and mods to the campaign were suggested by her and the DM approved it at the time... actually her girlfriend is the one playing the healing cleric and she's really no better... because of her knowledge of the FR system and how DnD works (she also knows every cleric spell and wizard spell a cleric can cast with the anyspell spell from every book WotC has ever published) she has made an unstoppable cleric... the DM has used the good doctor (or MD) three times and she's only lost one item in those three instances...

I do know for a fact that the DM plans on using a goon with the PrC from Planar Handbook that becomes immune to divine magic and interferes with divine spellcasting in a radius around himself and I'm pretty sure that "Tongue Eater" will show his ugly face again as a Tomb Warden (I think it's called that (immune from turning))...

I didn't have a high dex Duskblade... mine was a high STR type with a racial and template total of +10 on STR... with the item it was STR 34 and a +12 STR bonus...

[mabriss lethe]

I think you really should bring the DM a case for the Warlock.

Do a little research, show him the multiple threads where people point out its strengths and weaknesses and how it stacks up against the core casters (druid, wizard/sorc, cleric). Get your hands on... Cmage I think... I'm pretty sure it has a section devoted to the warlock and its alternate sources of power...point him to the parts concerning the fey. Keep it a nice, simple package.

(better yet, create a "warcluck" with a level of commoner and the chicken infested flaw+corpsecrafting+desrtructive retribution and then mob the cleric with an army of exploding undead chickens as you run away laughing. trust me, it'll be hilarious when her turn attempt reduces the first chicken to ashes.)

[Chronicled]

Hmmm... I wonder if she's using the Cheater of Mystra build. I'd still go with the Cindy build and show this girl that she should be careful what she wishes for.


I think you really should bring the DM a case for the Warlock.

Do a little research, show him the multiple threads where people point out its strengths and weaknesses and how it stacks up against the core casters (druid, wizard/sorc, cleric). Get your hands on... Cmage I think... I'm pretty sure it has a section devoted to the warlock and its alternate sources of power...point him to the parts concerning the fey. Keep it a nice, simple package.

(better yet, create a "warcluck" with a level of commoner and the chicken infested flaw+corpsecrafting+desrtructive retribution and then mob the cleric with an army of exploding undead chickens as you run away laughing. trust me, it'll be hilarious when her turn attempt reduces the first chicken to ashes.)

You have seen the numerous times where Numsie has stated that he doesn't want to play a warlock, right? Why is everyone so set upon forcing it down his throat?

[JaxGaret]

a Warmage with levels in Holy Scourge is very appealing...

Like I said, that's not a hyper-optimized campaign by any means.

[JaxGaret]

ok... now i'm really peeved... there's a girl in my group who is the captain of the debate team in school and she tore through my character like it was tissue paper... she pointed out every flaw in my build and started convincing all the others how much crap my character was... even I started to believe her at one point and now she has ruined the entire Duskblade class for me... if I start thinking about it I get depressed... I'm sure she still holds a grudge since we were kids and she told me I was going to be her boyfriend no matter what and I just said no (but I'm sure she has forgotten all about it... hasn't she?)...

Did I suddenly stumble through some sort of internet portal from gitp into 4chan?

[Xsjado]

So is this girl really not letting you play at all with the character? I've had people with objections to my builds but I just play anyway. If she's really that stuck up then its not worth playing. It may sound harsh but there's no reason to game if you aren't going to have fun and bad blood between players is pretty much my biggest nightmare as a DM.

As for the current situation I'd just play Cindy and show her what for.

[Cuddly]

You can't *just play* Cindy, or any other competent high level wizard very well if you don't know precisely what all the spells do, what the ways to get around them are, how to get around the spells that get around yours, and in which order to cast them.

At least, if you're DMs halfway competent. I imagine springing a bunch of no save no sr orbs would be shock and awe for most DMs though, especially with that horrible, horrible interpretation of Arcane Thesis.

[Brother Numsie]

hmm... I just stumbled upon some of my ravings while looking through the My Documents folder and remembered a "combat oriented" build with no buffing at all...

it was a monk 9/ initiate of the draconic mysteries 9

the PrC increases the die type of the unarmed damage by a total of 2 steps and with the Improved Natural Attack that's a total of 3 upgrades (to a monk that is already large size), the feat gives a size increase while the PrC increases the die by a total of 2 steps... it was a Draconic Half-Ogre (LA+3)... and it also makes the crit multiplier x3 instead of the normal x2... but I scrapped it when I discovered the DM didn't allow the Half-Ogre race as a playable race...

I talked to the girl before I went to sleep and I was right, she holds a grudge... but she has agreed to not slash at my characters as long as I don't use a Half-Dragon template... hehe, I'll just make a Druid that has the Phrenic template and the Draconic creature template (and it will resemble a Sapphire Dragon to keep with the psionic flavor), total bonuses +2 STR, +2 CON, +2 INT, +4 WIS, +6 CHA... now I'll have to find a suitable race with not too many ability negatives like a lesser Assimar, which bumps the last two ability modifers to +6 WIS and +8 CHA...

hmm... with that package... perhaps I should go with a more cleric type character??? Paladin or just a plain old Cleric... Then again I like the Druid much better than the Cleric... perhaps I should go with the Shifter race and I'm sure I can convince the DM to allow me to use the Shifter Druid substitution thingie from Races of Eberron... but that wil change the stat line up...

hmm... with the Assimar path I put ...13 in CHA and makes 21 total... put 18 in WIS for a 24... hmm.. what to do with the scores that are left: 18 17 14 14

[Cuddly]

Go with Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale. +6 str, +2 wis (I think), Large size, no LA (just HD). Very tasty.

[JaxGaret]

Go with Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale. +6 str, +2 wis (I think), Large size, no LA (just HD). Very tasty.

Try +8 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, +4 Wis, +9 NA. 3 racial HD.

It's awesome for Monk builds.

[Xsjado]

You can't *just play* Cindy, or any other competent high level wizard very well if you don't know precisely what all the spells do, what the ways to get around them are, how to get around the spells that get around yours, and in which order to cast them.

I think you're making it sound a bit mystical there. Read the spell effects, analyse the build, check the forums and it doesn't take much to become competent. All it takes is a bit of effort. Thats pretty much the whole story with batman builds, you don't need to be Einstein to be able to solve any obstacle you face. If it required the player to be a tactical genius then there wouldn't be so many complaints.

[Brother Numsie]

well... I spoke to the DM and he's allowing me to play a Draconic Phrenic Shifter Druid (I know, it's a creature feature but it works), I'll be using the Shifter racial Druid substitution levels and going with a full Druid no PrC at all...

I will be using spells that turn the enviroment into a hazard like Earth Wrack and similar spells for combat... also going to use Summon Elemental Monolith once in a while :)

And I know what the DM is planning in reducing the überness of the clerics... it's called an "intelligent trap with Greater Dispel Magic and then there's an intelligent trap with MD, as soon as the MD trap has unleased it's burst the other trap is expelled from the interdimensional pocket it's in. Every round the trap ,which only ignores followers of nature deities, will judge the spell being cast, if it deems it unworthy it will counter it with a caster level equal to the caster +2. The trap is located in the center of a room with four exits, near every exit is a wall of force that holds up a slab of stone, which if dispelled will seal the entrance and only a worshipper of the aformentioned nature deities can escape through it. Yes I know this is a little too much BUT the foes we've been chasing are highly intelligent and traps like these are not out of their reach AND they know what they're up against. The floor is also magical, it's a form of Mud to Stone effect which is dispelled when the MD hits and provides a "way in" for my Druid character. :)

you might ask why they don't just block it from a follower of any god, and that is a good question but the place where this goes down is under the watchful eye of the nature gods. The goons are powerful enough to know this and even powerful enough to mess with the gods themselves but can't affect them 100% so this is what happened to their plans...

[Azerian Kelimon]

Yanno, I have a feeling THIS is going to happen with your DM.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9783/1202228010192aa2.png


Living MD's are Teh Suxx0rz.

[Brother Numsie]

you might be right... but the driving factor to draw them in there is a demon that is fleeing from them but in reality it's luring them into it's masters trap. it will fight them to the death once inside the "chamber" and IF they use magic spells to kill the demon instead of just plain old sword play the MD trap awakens with it's one shot ability that triggers a cascading effect of traps becoming active all over the place and monster and other abominations will be released into the dungeon... that was actually my fault as the DM borrowed my Dungeonscape book...

if I know the girls like I think I do, they will become VERY angry and might... just might lose their temper and start to do things a follower of Mystra would not do... it happened once almost but they got hold of themselves just in time... the DM was not happy with how they acted last night when they destroyed my character with Tactical Verbal Nukes...

no, I cannot post their builds as the only times I'm allowed to look at their sheets is when we're playing and the other times the DM keeps the sheets with him...

I'm also DM'ing a Arcana Evolved campaign myself and when the girls found out I was DM'ing they wanted in... that was ok... when they tried to enforce their own house rules I just told them that I would take it under advisement and meanwhile I would use the house rules I had already decided upon... when I told them the next day that I would not allow their rules they got kinda angry (they like to pwn in every game they play) but they stuck around... when they showed up with their FR books I told them that I wouldn't be using ANY FR books and the only books allowed were Arcana Evolved books, the DMG and some items and abilities from the Magic Item Compendium and Dungeonscape... they walked out... they're that much into the whole FR setting... that's the only time I've felt in control at the game table...