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View Full Version : This looks like more than a cr6....



Rift_Wolf
2008-05-29, 08:17 AM
I'm putting together Elemental temples in my homebrew, I wanted the temple of Fire to have a phoenix-like creature as the boss, but after putting what is on paper a cr6 creature together, I think putting an actual phoenix at the end would be a lot safer.


Fire Elemental Giant Eagle of Legend CR6
Large Elemental (Fire)
HD 4d8+24 (42hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: 10ft, 80ft fly (Perfect)
Str: 28 (+9) Dex: 23 (+6) Con 22: (+6) Int: 12 (+1) Wis: 16 (+3) Cha: 14 (+2)
AC: 23 (-1 Size, +6 Dex, +8 Natural) Touch: 15, Flat-footed: 17
BAB/Grapple: +4/+17
Attack: Claw +12 (1d6+9 plus burn)
Full Attack: 2 claws +12 (1d6+9 plus burn) and bite +10 (1d8+4 plus burn)
Saves: Fort+12, Ref+12, Will+7
Skills: Listen+10, Spot+14, Sense Motive+10
Feats: Improved Flightx2, Improved Initiative, Multiattack
SA- Burn (DC18 reflex or catch fire for 1d4 rounds), Heat (1d4 fire damage on contact), Breath weapon (DC18, 3d6 fire) 1d4 rounds cooldown
SQ- Fire Immunity, Cold Vulnerability, Evasion, Darkvision, SR 12, Fast Healing 5


I don't want to be playing with kid gloves on (I've already nerfed it by spunking two feats on Improved Flight), but I also don't want to pit the players against something which can avoid almost every attack (The group I have aren't super-optimised) thanks to high AC, high saves and evasion. Should I bump up the CR and stop the players entering the temple till they're higher level? (Currently all level 5, though I plan to bring the temples in at level 6)

DracoDei
2008-05-29, 09:41 AM
IMHO: BBEG's/End Bosses should generally be at least one CR above the party's average ECL, maybe even 2.

MorkaisChosen
2008-05-29, 09:56 AM
Remember that the party should be able to defeat 4 CR-appropriate encounters in a day.

What sort of attack bonuses does your pary have?

Rift_Wolf
2008-05-29, 10:21 AM
Remember that the party should be able to defeat 4 CR-appropriate encounters in a day.

What sort of attack bonuses does your pary have?

party of 3;
sorceror 5 +4 ranged, +0 melee
cleric 5 +3 ranged, +3 melee
fighter2/rogue3 +7waraxe, +6 ranged
the sorcerors offensive spells are scorching ray and magic missile. He's also expressed an interest in becoming and Elemental Savant; I'm willing to let him off with not having the necessary feats so long as he makes friendly contact with an outsider or elemental, can cast enough spells with the correct descriptor, and has knowledge(planes) trained. The feat requirement seems a bit overkill seeing as it's not a great prestige class. The contact with elemental/outsider is the reason for them going to the temples; that and treasure (including a planar key for Elemental Planes for when they get Plane Shift)

Rift_Wolf
2008-05-29, 10:23 AM
IMHO: BBEG's/End Bosses should generally be at least one CR above the party's average ECL, maybe even 2.

After they annihilated a CR6 barbarian, I have no qualms about pitting them against creatures a few CRs above 5. My point is the elemental I made seems hella more powerful than cr6, and I didn't even build it to be superpowerful. I think the monster of legend template is waaaaay overpowered for the CR+2 it gets.

dman11235
2008-05-29, 10:30 AM
This is not news. MoL is an overpowered template. Most templates in there are. And the CRs are off kilter too. When using the MMII you have to adjust things some, and adapt it more to 3.5.

batsofchaos
2008-05-29, 11:04 AM
Following Vorpal Tribbles Guide to Making Monsters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43009), the estimated CR came out to 6.1111111 for that beastie, so it looks like CR 6 would be about right.