main trouble with the comic now

[youareworthless]

The main trouble with the comic now is that completely periphery characters have taken over the entire thing. They make all the plot points, have most of the lines, and none of them are the least bit interesting. Consider that the number of main characters has tripled and the actual Order of the Stick hardly seem to have any relavence to what is going on anymore. All of the people from Azure City look exactly the same, and it's difficult to tell them apart. Evil Azure City nobles, people in heaven, some goblin tribe, that goth chick Xykon hired during the battle... really, who cares about them? Where are the six heros? Instead the throwaways have stolen the show. Plus, the jokes are getting really lame. Lost references? Lame.

The worst, of course, is the X-Men/mythology crossover. Next time hit us with some Titanic jokes, that'd be much more fresh.

[Ninjamuffin]

Huh. If this is your reaction to having more than six characters, I would suggest you never read 'War and Peace'.

[Ceaon]

The main trouble with the comic now is that completely periphery characters have taken over the entire thing. They make all the plot points, have most of the lines, and none of them are the least bit interesting. Consider that the number of main characters has tripled and the actual Order of the Stick hardly seem to have any relavence to what is going on anymore. All of the people from Azure City look exactly the same, and it's difficult to tell them apart. Evil Azure City nobles, people in heaven, some goblin tribe, that goth chick Xykon hired during the battle... really, who cares about them? Where are the six heros? Instead the throwaways have stolen the show. Plus, the jokes are getting really lame. Lost references? Lame.

The worst, of course, is the X-Men/mythology crossover. Next time hit us with some Titanic jokes, that'd be much more fresh.

So which is the main problem? :smalltongue:
Also, if you are having this much 'trouble' reading a free webcomic, stop reading it! I'm afraid mr. Burlew is unable to listen to the crtiticism or advice of every reader, and I think that's why he does what he does without caring too much about what others say. It's too bad you don't enjoy the comic anymore, but this thread won't change that (except if you wanted to blow of steam or something).

I, for one, enjoy these non-Order characters. I think most of them are well-written, while others are just plain fun.
And when was the Order ever in charge of what happened around them?

[King of Nowhere]

There have always been on this forum people complaining that they didn't like the actual plot, no matter what that plot was. It's impossible to make a comic appreciated by everybody. After all, everyone has his tastes.
But the vast majority of us are still loving OOTS and the actual story arc.

[Ionizer]

...that goth chick Xykon hired during the battle... really, who cares about them?


Hey! Tsukiko is awesome! Who doesn't love a clearly distrubed, necrophiliac Mystic Theurge who FLIES AROUND WEARING A MINI SKIRT? Plus, she's not all evil because she let that one wight have that dominated paladin's boots. Tsukiko is awesome, alot better than the other evil counterpart to Haley (Sabine) who is just a kinky-sex crazed-nymphomaniac demon slut. Come to think about, she's not half bad either. I want to see what happens when those two get together :smallwink:

[Solo]

The main trouble with the comic now is that completely periphery characters have taken over the entire thing. They make all the plot points, have most of the lines, and none of them are the least bit interesting. Consider that the number of main characters has tripled and the actual Order of the Stick hardly seem to have any relavence to what is going on anymore. All of the people from Azure City look exactly the same, and it's difficult to tell them apart. Evil Azure City nobles, people in heaven, some goblin tribe, that goth chick Xykon hired during the battle... really, who cares about them? Where are the six heros? Instead the throwaways have stolen the show. Plus, the jokes are getting really lame. Lost references? Lame.

The worst, of course, is the X-Men/mythology crossover. Next time hit us with some Titanic jokes, that'd be much more fresh.

Ah, a pixie complaining about minor characters. Fascinating. :smalltongue:

[Green-Shirt Q]

I have to say, I find this topic quite intresting indeed.

I don't know about everybody else, but OoTS has becoming less and less intresting to me. I don't know why. Perhaps Rich is BEGGINING to lose his ability to be an intresting writer (like most writers do eventually).

Of course, as a loyal fan to OoTS, I never really questioned it. I just assumed that perhaps there was just 1 strip that didn't make me laugh in a pile of really good ones. Now that you mention it, a lot of the comics recently haven't made me laugh OR made me excited.

As OoTS Dedicated fans, I think many people are blinded by this, and cannot see that they themselves are lowering their standerds for the comic.

Of course, what do I know? I probably have no idea what I'm talking about. Maybe the comic IS actually intresting and my standerds are getting higher.
Or maybe it's that the story IS getting borring, but it will get interesting soon enough. Only time will tell.

[Jarwy]

Oh come on. It's impossible to keep something interesting forever with the same few characters cracking jokes. I'm glad this comic has grown and evolved.

This is truly an epic story.

[Bayar]

There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is that the purpose of the comic has shifted away from its original goal of simply poking fun at a game to an actual story, and it is that story on which I would like to focus.

It was about the 3.5 - 4 conversion, but it is relevant here too.

[SmartAlec]

The worst, of course, is the X-Men/mythology crossover. Next time hit us with some Titanic jokes, that'd be much more fresh.

Oh, that Cyclopsalike guy? He's not from the X-Men exactly, he's an in-joke for any readers of Start of Darkness.

[Selene]

Huh. If this is your reaction to having more than six characters, I would suggest you never read 'War and Peace'.

Or Tolkien.

[Gamerlord]

Well personally OOTS was never really funny in my option but it is cool with all the charterers and action.

[Robg54]

Maybe you don't get the Odyssey reference? Odyssus went to an island with a giant Cyclops. They hid under sheep to escape the monster after they blinded it. The joke is Elan equivocating the giant one eyed monster of greek mythology with the super hero. And after I got it, I thought it was the funniest joke he had made in a while. Made me really think.

it actuall supports the argument that they are pcs being played by people....

[MyrddinDerwydd]

Or Tolkien.

Or Wheel of Time. Or Song of Fire and Ice. Or...or any book that you want to have a decent story. Peripheral characters are necessary to make a story something other than a monologue or a panel discussion.

And if they're not well developed, people complain about character development, roundness, and useless characters.

But if they *are* well developed, others will complain about spending too much time on them, away from the main story, and them taking over the strip.

[Jimorian]

Please don't feed the troll.

[Hyozo]

Ah, a pixie complaining about minor characters. Fascinating. :smalltongue:

Insulting people based on their post count = not cool.

Besides, he acts like someone with your post count, if you know what I mean.

By the way, creating an account for the sole purpose of trolling = less cool.

[BRC]

Personally, I like the epxpanded cast. When you have six characters killing things you run out of jokes rather quickly. Of course there are more secondary characters than main characters, thats what makes the main characters, well, Main Characters. Sure the order are great characters, but Rich did over 400 strips of the order going around together, splitting them up allowed him to explore new dynamics.
Also, what Throwaways are you talking about in terms of having taken over the plot? Hinjo and Lien were almost certainly never throaways, the only people who I can think Rich ever inteded as throwaways were, MAYBE, Kazumi and Diago, but they havn't taken over the plot, and have been, in my opinion, great characters.
Personally, I have had no trouble telling the various AC characters apart.

Also, If I may
[quote] Evil Azure City nobles, people in heaven, some goblin tribe, that goth chick Xykon hired during the battle... really, who cares about them?[/spoiler]
Pretty much most of the people who read the comic. I know I do, rich has developed all of them as characters, made them interesting and understandable ect.

[VForVaarsuvius]

What's up with all the hostility to the comic? Not just in this but in a bunch of other topics here too. Every comedy series has one or two not funny parts, why is it that when one panel doesn't strike you as funny you erupt into a fit and wonder if you'll ever be able to enjoy the comic again? Personally I'm going to wait till OOTS is over before I make any unjust assumptions about Rich 'losing his touch'.

\V/

[Occasional Sage]

Please don't feed the troll.

"...said Jimor, wisely."

Seriously, thanks for that. I was getting myself geared up for a round of pointless and acrimonious discussion that would only have raised my blood pressure beyond reason.

[Kato]

My first thought was: Stop reading. If you don't like. Nobody wants to hear some whining and I don't think Mr Burlew will change anything in the comic because someone doesn't get along with more than six characters, who's names he has to remember.

As mentioned already... The strip has evolved. It's not about a party of characters anymore, joking about sneak attacks and spot checks, but they are like real persons with ups and downs and character development. I don't think the jokes are getting lame. If you don't like it, don't read it. The jokes aren't there to make you laugh. There are enough others who do.
Also... it's sooooo dumb (sorry) complaining about Rich bringing in new characters and losing it's touch at the same time. It was, if he'd just threw in random idiots, but he brings in new personalities. I don't see any reason to complain about it. Just don't ever start reading a real book, cause, you know, there are hardly any with less than 10 major characters you need to remember. And then there are even more minors! Omg, it's surely horrible...
About the last joke... it wasn't his best, but I still liked it. (radioactive ninja was better, talking about the last on, hehe)

[SPoD]

What I find so inaccurate about this criticism is that the peripheral characters are mostly just there as stand-ins, to provide reactions to the main characters. Look at Daigo and Lien in this orc subplot: they mostly exist so that we have someone to yell at Elan, since Roy is otherwise occupied. That's it. We're not spending strip after strip learning their motivations or goals or childhood dreams.

The only person you could say that about is Therkla, and she's an antagonist (sort of). Anyone who follows comic books knows that in a serial story, you always need new antagonists with new backstories to keep things fresh; how many foes does Batman have that we know their life story? Dozens.

EDIT: And if all else fails, refer to the second quote in my signature.

[Newtkeeper]

Ah, a pixie complaining about minor characters. Fascinating. :smalltongue:

That's kind of a mean jab. Pixiehood precluding premonitions of problems is poor play.

Yes, I posted that just for the alliteration.

EDIT: While I can find flaws in the comic (no work is perfect, and I myself could certainly not do as well), multiple main characters is not one of them. Personage plurality produces precious prose, after all.

[Morgan Wick]

Oh, that Cyclopsalike guy? He's not from the X-Men exactly, he's an in-joke for any readers of Start of Darkness.

The title of the strip suggests he is indeed supposed to be the X-Men Cyclops. And Elan's setup, unless the nature of the "in-joke" invalidates that.

[RandomNPC]

its a literary trick. the reunion of the order is going to be freaking sweet, and that's what its all building up to.


that is all.

[Kletian999]

One thing I've noticed is that this comic is even more fun when you get to read a lot of them in short order (like me discovering the strip and reading the 550+ archive in a matter of days). While I've enjoyed all the recent strips as much as the early ones, the feeling of having to wait could explain those that believe "it's not as fun anymore"

[ShellBullet]

What I find so inaccurate about this criticism is that the peripheral characters are mostly just there as stand-ins, to provide reactions to the main characters. Look at Daigo and Lien in this orc subplot: they mostly exist so that we have someone to yell at Elan, since Roy is otherwise occupied. That's it. We're not spending strip after strip learning their motivations or goals or childhood dreams.

We did learn that Lien has lost her virginity and her mother is always right...
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0554.html

Yes, I know that it may not be intresting or essential like childhood dreams and traumas, but it's something.

[Silkenfist]

I don't like the fact that Xykon killed Roy. What's the point? Roy is the good guy! Why didn't he win? WHY DIDN'T HE WIN?

Also Elan would look better with brown hair. And a mustache. And cross-classed to Soulknife.




I think you get the point by now... The Giant won't change the comic because one of us thinks it would be niftier another way.

[Liwen]

Insulting people based on their post count = not cool.

Besides, he acts like someone with your post count, if you know what I mean.

By the way, creating an account for the sole purpose of trolling = less cool.

Oh so this is how I can evolve my title from pixie to something else! I was wondering about that for quite some time now. Anyway pixies are cool.

On the subjet at hand, I think it is the prolonged death of Roy and the division of the party has made the comic less intresting and funny for some people, not me, I'm rotL almost at each update. Also the whole story with the orc tribe wasn't really related to anything important. The only thing that has changed over the last 10 strips in that now almost everyone on Hinjo's crew has met Therkla. And that the imp guy who's name I don't remenber sees her as a traitor.

It's not gate related material, so it's sub-plot. Not everyone likes subplots.

[teratorn]

My first thought was: Stop reading.

That's what he wants. The OP posts in #560 were like this, very harsh criticism, with no real point, just calling things lame and such. It's his opinion, he's entitled to it, but I refuse to argue with someone who seems more interested in throwing some flames and waiting for the reactions.

His user name tells everything one needs to know about the poster.

[King of Nowhere]

One thing I've noticed is that this comic is even more fun when you get to read a lot of them in short order (like me discovering the strip and reading the 550+ archive in a matter of days). While I've enjoyed all the recent strips as much as the early ones, the feeling of having to wait could explain those that believe "it's not as fun anymore"
An important point. I re-read oots often, and even when some strips don't seem good the moment they're posted, when you get the whole story it's better. I started reading at 200, and I wasn't satisfied by Miko dragging the order to unknow destination. After the process, everything fits perfectly. I was also insatisfied with strips 300-310, seemed oots was becoming a soap opera, but now everything makes sense. After that, I realized that Rich know what he's doing and that I can trust him. I suggest all you do the same

[Strengfellow]

The only problem that I can see with this comic is people complaining about it when it doesn't do what they want it to do.

Just out of curiosity OP do you read a book and then contact the author and abuse them for their plot structure?

If it offends your sensibilities that much you could always make your own.

[mentatzarkon]

An important point. I re-read oots often, and even when some strips don't seem good the moment they're posted, when you get the whole story it's better.

This is really true for me too. I recently re-read oots in a day or so (my job is really boring) and so my main trouble with the comic now, is I find myself chomping at the bit for new episodes! When it goes without an update for more than a couple days at a time, I start to go into oots-withdrawl.

[Eakin]

Maybe you don't get the Odyssey reference? Odyssus went to an island with a giant Cyclops. They hid under sheep to escape the monster after they blinded it. The joke is Elan equivocating the giant one eyed monster of greek mythology with the super hero. And after I got it, I thought it was the funniest joke he had made in a while. Made me really think.

it actuall supports the argument that they are pcs being played by people....

At first I just thought it was a random X-men cameo. It wasn't until well after the next comic was up that I FINALLY caught the Odysseus reference. I felt really dense. The title of the comic made more sense too.

[Kurald Galain]

Huh. If this is your reaction to having more than six characters, I would suggest you never read 'War and Peace'.

You mean War and XPs? :smallbiggrin:

[Ned the undead]

Please don't feed the troll.
But that's why I bought these flasks of Alchemist's Fire!

[Jayngfet]

So you don't like it when a part of the story that doesn't immediatly affect the order happens?

[jeffreyac]

I'm sorry, Ionizer caused me to pretty much tune out back at post #5 with:


kinky-sex crazed-nymphomaniac demon slut.

... did I miss anything important?

Oh, yeah, the comic discussion. I like it, sorry you don't. Does that pretty much cover the topic?

[Shatteredtower]

All of the people from Azure City look exactly the same, and it's difficult to tell them apart.This little ethnic slur reference says it all, really.