Which webcomic is better?

[Gamerlord]

LFG comic or OOTS?

I'm not saying i hate OOTS but i have to say that LFG comic simply is better in both humor and it's action.

Also does anyone know how to add polls? I want to add one to this thread.

[Mauve Shirt]

What is LFG comic?
This should probably be moved to the webcomics section.

[T-O-E]

What is LFG comic?
This should probably be moved to the webcomics section.

I wiki'd lfg disambiguation. I think he's talking about Looking For Group.

[Mc. Lovin']

LFG's plot is so hard (read boring) to follow. The art style is generally confusing, and that annoying little gremlin who doesnt use spaces when he talks is back, which makes it incredibly hard to understand what he says.

On the other hand, OOTs dialogue is always exceptionally well done, and the art style is ... well, unique.

[Morty]

OoTS by far. LFG is a mediocere comic that authors take way too seriously. It's moderately interesting, but neither jokes nor plot can hope to match OoTS. It also cannot hope to spark any actual emotion in me, while OoTS achieves that even though it's supposedly humorous comic.

[Woof]

Behold! I am a diviner!!
I predict that 95% of all posters shall vote with "OOTS is better".


...You do realize this is the OOTS forum, right?

[someonenonotyou]

i tried to read LFG a whlie ago but never got into it i might give it another try but anyways OOTS beats it by a long shot

[SteveMB]

This should probably be moved to the webcomics section.

True. Also, the forum here is likely to be a bit biased. (FWIW, I think LFG is good, but OotS is great. :smallwink: )

[Fri]

It's like asking people to participate in a "do you like to participate in a survey" survey :smallbiggrin:

[Gamerlord]

Ok I'll make another version in the web comics section.

[BRC]

Personally, OOTS. Though they both have their strong points.

LFG has much better action, though that is largely because a stick-figure art style dosn't exactly lend itself to action scenes the way LFG's style does.

As for the humor, it's good, but most of it boils down to either A: Richard is Evil, or B: Richard's name can be shortened to "****" LOL DIRTY WORD!

OOTS has a much better story and writing than LFG however, so I prefer it.

[Gamerlord]

OOTS has a much better story and writing than LFG however, so I prefer it.
I never really cared about plot and story i just really like Richard's mere existence because he's hilarious :smallsmile: .

[tenguro]

I like em both, but I would have to say OoTS is better. LFG is funny, and the art style is pretty damn good, but it seems like Richard is the only Character worth reading it to see.

[Jayabalard]

definitely xkcd

[Kurald Galain]

definitely xkcd

Yes!!!

(also, while I know a few ongoing comics that can vie with OOTS in terms of quality, the boredom that is LFG is definitely not one of them)

[Stormpax]

definitely xkcd

whats xkcd?

[Timberboar]

whats xkcd?

Heretic! Buuuuurn him!

[Edan]

whats xkcd?

One of the best comics on the web.
Linked Fresh, Just For You (http://xkcd.com/)

[Kish]

I hesitate to dignify LFG by calling it a webcomic. It's more like a screed by the author against some MMORPG players with whom he disagrees on the content of that MMORPG. (That is to say, all the humor in it goes, "The Horde in World of Warcraft is evil and the Alliance is good, ha ha! Look how evil the Horde is, ho ho! Look how stupid anyone who thinks it isn't evil is, hee hee hee! Aren't I funny?")

OotS is brilliant--I nearly said "by comparison," but particularly after reading SoD, it's brilliant with or without the comparison.

[FujinAkari]

I tried to read LFG, and I had to stop reading it for the same reason I stopped reading 8-bit theatre. The characters were utterly one dimensional, and the plot was told to me... it really didn't feel accurate, it was happening because it was happening, not because the characters would actually DO that.

Though, granted, the lack of character development makes it hard for me to believe the characters would do anything.

So yeah, OOTS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LFG.

Its like comparing Seinfeld to The Smurfs. Yeah, The Smurfs is a bit amusing, but every episode is basically identical.

[krossbow]

Richard is a complete and UTTER clone of black mage. Frankly, it almost qualifies as plagiarism level.

On top of that, i don't find any of LFG's "battles" to inspire any sort of drama. You always know how they're going to end. Hell, the heroes are hardly even shown getting knocked around. All they do is cheap anime bull rush moves that send enemies flying like bowling pins.

Order of the stick there is legitimate concern for the characters in fights. They're beaten to a pulp, many are taken out of a battle, MANY side character allies die, and Even main characters are in grave danger of imminent death (though one knows that they can be rezzed in D&D, it still does not lessen the fact that they COULD truly die).

Hell, These stick characters show more character development than most movie or book characters.

[evisiron]

Hmm. Best LFG vs Best OotS comics, I would have to give it to LFG. Some of its jokes are fantastic, such as the Rick Roll'd incident.

However, OotS has:
-A better plot
-Better defined characters
-Many, many more strips
-A greater consistency

So, in my opinion, each has their merits. :smallbiggrin:

[Gargor]

Yeah... LFG has Richard...But what else does it have? A insanely confusing nonsensical storyline? Oots wins. I check Oots at least once a day. LFG? like once every two weeks if that. But i do have to admit, "Slaughter your world" was one of the best things ever created by mankind.

[Kurald Galain]

Okay, for anyone who doubted that LFG is a complete rip-off of 8-bit Theatre, I offer this evidence: LFG for last week (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/149), 8-Bit three years ago (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=050324). If that's not plagiarism I don't know what is.

[Helanna]

Richard is a complete and UTTER clone of black mage. Frankly, it almost qualifies as plagiarism level.

How on EARTH do you come up with that? That they both like to kill things? Because that is the only REAL similarity I see. And that can be used to describe 80% of villains - including Xykon.


Okay, for anyone who doubted that LFG is a complete rip-off of 8-bit Theatre, I offer this evidence: LFG for last week, 8-Bit three years ago. If that's not plagiarism I don't know what is.

Two different webcomic characters being trapped in a plane of featureless existence hardly makes for plagiarism. Not to mention, of course, that the plots, characters, circumstances and overall ending are TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

That said, I really, really love LFG, and I'm surprised so many people don't like it. It's one of the funniest things I've ever read. But I don't like comparing webcomics, because so many of them are written with different goals in mind. OotS, overall, is humor first, plot second, while LFG is more plot-focused. Not to mention, OotS is based on DnD, while LFG is based on MMORPGs. OotS breaks the fourth wall, while LFG doesn't. OotS parodies . . . not sure what I'm looking for, but it parodies a different range of things that LFG does, which parodies fantasy books most often. So I don't feel that they're very easy to compare, and trying to figure out which I like more would just make my brain explode.

Of course, LFG has Richard. Who is HILARIOUS. And I listen to "Slaughter Your World" like three times a day.

Also:

definitely xkcd

XKCD = WIN.

[Morty]

I tried to read LFG, and I had to stop reading it for the same reason I stopped reading 8-bit theatre. The characters were utterly one dimensional, and the plot was told to me... it really didn't feel accurate, it was happening because it was happening, not because the characters would actually DO that.


The main difference here being, 8-Bit Thearte isn't supposed to have multi-dimensional characters or coherent plot. It's supposed to be absurd, and it does that well- of course, it's not for everyone's tastes. LFG on the other hand, is clearly meant to have serious plot and characters, but the former is confusing and uninteresting and the latter are one dimensional.
Richard stopped being funny rather quickly. It takes more than random, heartless murder to create morbidly funny character. Also, while Belkar and Black Mage operate on similiar type of humor, they aren't unstoppable and unpunishable. Richard is, which makes him less amusing by far.

[Jahkaivah]

LFG is more plot-focused.

WHAT?


How? The story seems to completely change every 5 strips, Im not even sure who the main villain is supposed to be... we actually have no idea why anyone is fighting... "because magic says so" seems to almost be a motto for this plot. Heck, im not even sure which time period they are supposed to be in.

[Regneva]

Why the F are you COMPARING web comics?
More importantly, why the F are you comparing two different pieces of ART?

What prevents you from reading and enjoying both? They are nothing like each other

[Behold_the_Void]

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I'm not quite seeing how this question can even come up. I agree with most of the posters as to why OotS is superior and LFG is just kind of meh.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I can compare them easily :
LFG is a small sucky human- OOTS is godly dwarven ale. A.K.A. A holy. B OMG good. C makes everything funny. D Is unique in a good drawn art-style. E Good explained plot which has sub-plots which yet do not make the main-plot suffer. F I can go on for a while but I won't.

Secondly, if you have already created a copy of this thread in the Webcomics Section, then please edit the title so mods can see this one needs/is wanted to be closed.

[Moff Chumley]

[SIZE="6"]why the F are you comparing two different pieces of ART?[/]

And lo, the fine tradition of debate is brought down by faux respect for other's opinions. If it makes people happy to discuss this, who are you to deny them this? I am constantly amazed by the ignorance of the statement. It in no way facilitates thought of any kind, and elevates art out of the reach of the common man. /rant


Anyway, Richard is in every way I could make out, a less funny Black Mage. Period. 8bit>LFG, and OotS>8bit.

[Sir_Elderberry]

And lo, the fine tradition of debate is brought down by faux respect for other's opinions. If it makes people happy to discuss this, who are you to deny them this? I am constantly amazed by the ignorance of the statement. It in no way facilitates thought of any kind, and elevates art out of the reach of the common man. /rant


Anyway, Richard is in every way I could make out, a less funny Black Mage. Period. 8bit<LFG, and OotS<8bit.

I think you meant greater than signs.

[Helanna]

Originally Posted by Death Dragon
LFG is more plot-focused.

WHAT?

Hey, I said *more* plot-focused. In comparison to OotS, that doesn't have to be a WHOLE lot.

Meh. I think one of the reasons I really like LFG is because, when reading webcomics, plot really doesn't matter to me - I read soley for the humor. So I don't pay much attention to LFG's plot at all, which is good, because I'm not exactly sure what it is right now. I just know that it exists and it is a driving factor.


Anyway, Richard is in every way I could make out, a less funny Black Mage.

Okay, can somebody just explain this to me? Other than "they like to kill", I just don't see what's the same.

[FujinAkari]

Okay, can somebody just explain this to me? Other than "they like to kill", I just don't see what's the same.

Well, since they don't HAVE any defining characteristics -besides- being heartless bastards, the fact that their ONLY character trait is identical makes them clones :)

[Regneva]

And lo, the fine tradition of debate is brought down by faux respect for other's opinions. If it makes people happy to discuss this, who are you to deny them this? I am constantly amazed by the ignorance of the statement. It in no way facilitates thought of any kind, and elevates art out of the reach of the common man. /rant


Anyway, Richard is in every way I could make out, a less funny Black Mage. Period. 8bit<LFG, and OotS<8bit.

Art is always within the reach of the common man. Art IS a part of the common man. Discussing the purpose, the angle, the message, the style and the heritage of ART is essential. It is what makes man, communicate with ART and grasp its meaning.

But alas, I can never fathom what people find in arguing over which creation is "better". Just that, "better". It does not divulge on what the art means or how it exists. It does not involve contemplating on which one says what. It attempts to appraise material value to art, trying to "compare" it like an item. An item you would read the "technical specifications" of before buying. It dumbs down ones ability to "think" about them, opposing the very point you pronounced.

And the way you compare these three comics, as well as your conclusion on them, makes me very very sad...

[AstralFire]

LFG is at least better than Least I Could Do, which is the creator's other project. But while LFG has its moments, it largely is mediocre.

[Jayngfet]

Okay, can somebody just explain this to me? Other than "they like to kill", I just don't see what's the same.

Let me ask you a question, what happens if you take away their ability to kill things with magic, glowing yellow eyes, face hiding outfit, and "friends" they can't seem to kill.

Black Mage has his obsession with white mage and his stabbing, Richard has nothing.

Richard has less characterization than a comic that tries to avoid characterization.

[krossbow]

Anyway, Richard is in every way I could make out, a less funny Black Mage. Period. 8bit<LFG, and OotS<8bit.



Sure you have those symbols the right way around? You say that richard is worse than black mage, and yet you then say that 8 bit is less than LFG.

[Jahkaivah]

Hey, I said *more* plot-focused. In comparison to OotS, that doesn't have to be a WHOLE lot.

Meh. I think one of the reasons I really like LFG is because, when reading webcomics, plot really doesn't matter to me - I read soley for the humor. So I don't pay much attention to LFG's plot at all, which is good, because I'm not exactly sure what it is right now. I just know that it exists and it is a driving factor.


Still... what? :smalltongue:

But seriously, if you don't give a damn about plot how do you know that LFG is more plot-focused than OOTS? OOTS is a damn sight more complex, what with actual character motivations underlined, developing relationships between said characters and a effective use of tropes (played straight, subverted or parodied depending on whats most appropriate) which Rich illustrates that he understands with his frequent Lampshade Hanging.

And to top it off, I actually understand whats going on in OOTS.

[Gamerlord]

Hmm. Best LFG vs Best OotS comics, I would have to give it to LFG. Some of its jokes are fantastic, such as the Rick Roll'd incident.

However, OotS has:
-A better plot
-Better defined characters
-Many, many more strips
-A greater consistency

So, in my opinion, each has their merits. :smallbiggrin:
Who cares about plot ? i just want to see comedy and i don't see that in oots, it's to serious in my option.

[Morty]

Who cares about plot ? i just want to see comedy and i don't see that in oots, it's to serious in my option.

Just out of curiosity, where do you see any comedy in LFG? Has Richard's wanton, cheerful killing suddenly become comedy?

[Helanna]

Still... what?

But seriously, if you don't give a damn about plot how do you know that LFG is more plot-focused than OOTS? . . .

I was actually basing that off a quote from the Giant, actually, stating that humor would always come before continuity, or something to that effect. In my book, that makes it humor-driven. Whereas LFG has had strips that focus soley on the plot (that's how I have a general gist of what's going on.)


And to top it off, I actually understand whats going on in OOTS.

Yeah, that's a little sad, that I can understand OotS perfectly and only understand LFG on a need-to-know basis. But like i said, humor value and all . . . I actually judge OOTS more harshly than LFG, just because OOTS *is* largely plot, and I *don't* read it only for the humor, it has actually made me very sad before.

Hmmm . . . I believe I totally contradicted myself above. I don't know, take whatever you can piece together from all my above posts 'cause now I don't have a clue what I mean. :smallconfused:


Just out of curiosity, where do you see any comedy in LFG? Has Richard's wanton, cheerful killing suddenly become comedy?

Yes. :smallsmile:

[Trazoi]

Just out of curiosity, where do you see any comedy in LFG? Has Richard's wanton, cheerful killing suddenly become comedy?
Everyone has different tastes in humour. Some people find the Heroic Sociopath archetype inherently amusing. Although personally that type overblown and can't stand 'em unless they've got some other aspects to their personality to fuel the jokes.

However I don't see the lack of comedy in OotS. A typical OotS page has at least half a dozen jokes; just have a look at the current page (#561 if you're reading this in the future :smallwink:). I've only read a few dozen pages of Looking for Group, but it seems to work toward just one punchline per page (which I personally usually find lukewarm at best).

[Kish]

Who cares about plot ?

Nearly everyone here.

i just want to see comedy and i don't see that in oots, it's to serious in my option.
So you're still reading this comic, why?

[Jahkaivah]

Actually I do personally find Richard to be funny. But other heroic sociopaths are funny as well, and they exist in webcomics which don't need or milk them.

The formula works, it just one day might fail.

[Moff Chumley]

Sure you have those symbols the right way around? You say that richard is worse than black mage, and yet you then say that 8 bit is less than LFG.

*Slams forehead on table*
*dies*

My post has been edited. (And I was so close to passing myself off as genuinely indignant...)

The thing about art is, it's personal. And since I can't prove I'm not imagining everyone on earth, that means I'm always right, and so is everyone else. After all, I might not actually exist. However, BS aside, there are simply no qualities the LFG posses that OotS lacks. That, imo, makes OotS better.

[Lorn]

Just out of curiosity, where do you see any comedy in LFG? Has Richard's wanton, cheerful killing suddenly become comedy?
Yes. Yes it has. Some areas more than others.

For example...

This (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/97) and then, subsequently, this. (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/98)

Have to say, though, OOTS is better - though LFG is definitely entertaining. If you're like me. My sense of humour is strange. Yay!

[Helanna]

And since I can't prove I'm not imagining everyone on earth,

It is always nice to find somebody else who holds this debate with themselves. I have this debate like twice a day. It really screws with my mind.


Everyone has different tastes in humour.

Yeah, and the weird thing is that nobody really knows what drives this humor. I read an article once about a guy and his wife at the movies, and while he was laughing hysterically at one part, his wife was asking, "Why are you laughing? That's horrible!" And the article went on to explore what made things funny for different people.

Thanks, Trazoi, you just cleared up all the questions this debate brought up for me - I couldn't really care less about them! So long as something amuses me, I'm fine with it. Thus, all webcomics are ranked on how much they amuse me, and OotS and LFG are equal - for *me*.

[Inhuman Bot]

Why the F are you COMPARING web comics?
More importantly, why the F are you comparing two different pieces of ART?

What prevents you from reading and enjoying both? They are nothing like each other


Yes, but really this is a disscusion. And not "OMG!!!!! A NONE OOTS/LFG COMIC!!!1! DESTROY!! DESTROY!!!. Peope are allowed to compare things, and should be able to do such without offensive comments being said to them.

[Logalmier]

The fact that the second LFG made me have nightmares for over the course of two weeks is not helping my vote.

But yeah I think OOTS is a better webcomic by far, for reasons that people have pretty much already discussed before me.

[Grym]

Hmm. Best LFG vs Best OotS comics, I would have to give it to LFG. Some of its jokes are fantastic, such as the Rick Roll'd incident.

However, OotS has:
-A better plot
-Better defined characters
-Many, many more strips
-A greater consistency

So, in my opinion, each has their merits. :smallbiggrin:

You have the best post in this thread.

My vote goes to LFG by a small margin, because the plot is meaningful, and the characters, unlike what some of the people on these forums seem to think, do develop over time. Hell, look at Cale!

It's not entirely about comedy, but it's still entertaining in the same way that an epic high fantasy novel would be.

[Paladin29]

I am reading LFG now, and I like it, however, i read 100 strips of OotS in one night, that is not happening with LFG.

BTW... It´s me or Xykon and Richard are twin brothers XD

[Roderick_BR]

I like LFG. The humor is a lot more adult, but doesn't fail to deliver. Specially with poor "pinkie" having to face all those troubles, but it's still a cool comic, and I the art is awesome.
I'd say that OotS, though, has a more clear humor, and have much more pop culture in it.
So, the comics are different in nature. I pick OotS as favorite, since it's more my style.

[Zorn]

For all those who are criticizing LFG for it's lack of plot and character development:

Yes, you're right to some extent. The point you're missing is the lack of time needed to develop these things. The more obvious reason is that LFG simply hasn't been around long enough to develop as much as OotS has. It took Oots a while to develop into the comic it is now, and it is still changing today. Why is it not reasonable to assume that LFG is going through a similar process?

More importantly, however, we have to compare art styles among other things. Now I'm not insulting Rich's style here. Personally I find it both very unique and very effective. That said, LFG has an amazing art style. While that certainly doesn't enhance the plot or characters directly, it does bring up an issue of time. Each LFG strip requires a great deal of effort to create. As a result, the authors of LFG are put in a situation where they have to fit their story into a much more limited space.

The question, then, should not be whether or not LFG matches up with OotS in terms of plot and character development. We should instead be asking ourselves if LFG does a good job of portraying the aforementioned things with the limited resources it is given. To that I would say: yes, very much so.

I think Regneva was correct. The works of different artists simply cannot be compared that easily. There are far too many factors for them to be weighed objectively. You have to make concessions when pointing out flaws.

Jayngfet, I really don't see a big connection between Richard and Black Mage. True, they both enjoy killing things and true, they do look somewhat similar. Both of these are stereotypes reaching far beyond either comic. The use of these stock character elements is not necessarily a flaw; it's a way to explain something about a character without actually stating it. As for being able to kill party members: this is what sets the characters apart. A sprite comic is not the way to look if you want originality.

Black Mage likes to break things, sure. Ever since he killed the giant in the very first arc, however, Black Mage has been utterly incompetent. The reason he can't kill his friends isn't for lack of trying. He'd turn on them in an instant if his physical ineptness wasn't such a barrier, and he's been that way for about 1000 strips. Richard, on the other hand, is more than capable of doing such things. The fact that he doesn't, that he shows some restraint and hints towards some reason for it, that he isn't entirely predictable makes him a much more interesting.

Richard is certainly one dimensional. Looking at recent LFG strips shows that they're putting a great deal of effort into changing that. Revealing more about these kinds of characters without losing their initial appeal is difficult, and I respect the authors for trying whether they succeed or not.

[Kurald Galain]

Yes, you're right to some extent. The point you're missing is the lack of time needed to develop these things. The more obvious reason is that LFG simply hasn't been around long enough to develop as much as OotS has.

That's easy. Compare development here (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/152) with development up to here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0152.html). LFG has been going for a year and a half and for over a hundred strips; that would be plenty of time for plot or character development. The fact that we haven't seen much is indicative of the author's skill in creating it.


That said, LFG has an amazing art style.
Amazing... er, no. Megatokyo might be amazing. Sinfest might be amazing. LFG really is not. It's not bad or anything, but it's messy and it lacks focus. And I'm afraid that goes for its writing as well.

[Jonman122]

Ok look at the time difference it would take to make ONE LFG comic compared to an OoTs comic. OoTs is stick guys, hell i could make that in an hour at the most if i had my thumb up my ass. To make one LFG comic probably takes 4 hours, needing elaborate backgrounds, all the character detail, expressions and stuff. so honestly... Plus, Richard has alot more character to him then you people who have read the first 6 comics happen to realise...

[Arkenputtyknife]

Since I'm always on the lookout for hitherto-unseen webcomics to peruse, I've plunged into the LFG archives, and these are my reactions based on what I've read so far.

I do like it. Not nearly as much as OotS or Erfworld, but yes, I like it. The plot is engaging (when the holes don't get in the way), most of the characters are developing, and the artwork is okay—not the greatest in the universe, but far from shabby. I appreciate the effort that goes into it.

But for me it has one big downside, and it can be summed up in one word: Richard. I find him utterly boring and very predictable: Oh look, a kitten! Now it's a greasy smear! Didn't see that coming. As far as I can see, he has no motivation and kills because it's the only thing he knows how to do. Beyond that, he's an ineffectual and dull buffoon. His prominence in the story is not justified by his contribution to it; he could be deleted entirely, and the story so far would hardly be affected. I think the storytelling would even improve. By contrast, OotS without Xykon (a very similar character at the conceptual level) would be much less than what it is.

Maybe that improves later on, but until it does, I'm enjoying LFG despite Richard, and not because of him.

[Gamerlord]

Since I'm always on the lookout for hitherto-unseen webcomics to peruse, I've plunged into the LFG archives, and these are my reactions based on what I've read so far.

I do like it. Not nearly as much as OotS or Erfworld, but yes, I like it. The plot is engaging (when the holes don't get in the way), most of the characters are developing, and the artwork is okay—not the greatest in the universe, but far from shabby. I appreciate the effort that goes into it.

But for me it has one big downside, and it can be summed up in one word: Richard. I find him utterly boring and very predictable: Oh look, a kitten! Now it's a greasy smear! Didn't see that coming. As far as I can see, he has no motivation and kills because it's the only thing he knows how to do. Beyond that, he's an ineffectual and dull buffoon. His prominence in the story is not justified by his contribution to it; he could be deleted entirely, and the story so far would hardly be affected. I think the storytelling would even improve. By contrast, OotS without Xykon (a very similar character at the conceptual level) would be much less than what it is.

Maybe that improves later on, but until it does, I'm enjoying LFG despite Richard, and not because of him.
Are you saying richard stinks? In the LFG forums that would be called HERESY!

[Trizap]

only idiots make these kinds of threads, as humor is based entirely on taste, and you can't really say that either of them are better and claim it as fact, as its only your own opinion.

therefore this thread is null and void, as all your getting are opinions
in a place where the statistics wouldn't be entirely accurate. Therefore, neither of them are actually better, you just perceive one of them as better. that is all.

[BRC]

Since I'm always on the lookout for hitherto-unseen webcomics to peruse, I've plunged into the LFG archives, and these are my reactions based on what I've read so far.

I do like it. Not nearly as much as OotS or Erfworld, but yes, I like it. The plot is engaging (when the holes don't get in the way), most of the characters are developing, and the artwork is okay—not the greatest in the universe, but far from shabby. I appreciate the effort that goes into it.

But for me it has one big downside, and it can be summed up in one word: Richard. I find him utterly boring and very predictable: Oh look, a kitten! Now it's a greasy smear! Didn't see that coming. As far as I can see, he has no motivation and kills because it's the only thing he knows how to do. Beyond that, he's an ineffectual and dull buffoon. His prominence in the story is not justified by his contribution to it; he could be deleted entirely, and the story so far would hardly be affected. I think the storytelling would even improve. By contrast, OotS without Xykon (a very similar character at the conceptual level) would be much less than what it is.

Maybe that improves later on, but until it does, I'm enjoying LFG despite Richard, and not because of him.

Thats odd, I had almost an opposite reaction. As a Comedic Webcomic (which is what it is) Richard is the only thing keeping it going. If you took out Richard what you would have is an unfunny comic with a subpar plot and mediocre writing. Instead it's actually somewhat funny, albiet in a three-stoodges type of way

[Arkenputtyknife]

Are you saying richard stinks?
Yes.


In the LFG forums that would be called HERESY!
Then it's a good thing that (a) I'm not in the LFG forums, and (b) my underwear is fire-retardant.

[Axl_Rose]

I've read the first parts of LFG and thought it sucked. hard. So I'll say OOTS.

That "Richard" character is fooking retaded and so are his fanboys.

[Killersquid]

I read LFG when there is a new one, so I can somewhat accurately say what the comic is and its strengths and weaknesses.

Strengths:

1. Funny
2. Art is pleasing to look at (not High Renaissance, but its not painful to the eyes)

Weaknesses:

1. Richard. Yes, he may be the #1 source of the funnies, but when he makes a joke, it sometimes stunts the plot progression. Not just that, but he is in the spotlight most of the time, keeping it away from other characters that can develop, and makes a joke, and stays one dimensional (the newest arc MAY change that, it looks like we may get backstoryriffic if we're lucky)

2. Said plot progression stunting caused by our favorite undead sociopath (besides Xykon).

Don't get me wrong, I like the comic. I like Richard, but sometimes he becomes SO overpowering and overshadows the rest of the characters that it makes the comic a bore to read. Punchlines and such are fun, but they shouldn't be powering the comic.

[Zorn]

That's easy. Compare development here (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/152) with development up to here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0152.html). LFG has been going for a year and a half and for over a hundred strips; that would be plenty of time for plot or character development. The fact that we haven't seen much is indicative of the author's skill in creating it.

You'll have to point out the OotS plot and character development to me because I really don't see much of it. As far as plot goes: they've managed to escape Dorukan's Dungeon and have just begun the starmetal quest with a decent amount of filler in between. Meanwhile Xykon and co. are recuperating. As for character development: they really haven't changed much. Looking at their conversation just a few strips before (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0139.html) shows them behaving very similar to the way they acted at the beginning of the comic. The only significant events I can see are: Roy's loss of his grandfather's sword, V and Elan's interaction involving Elan's level in wizard, and Belkar's multi classing to Barbarian. Sadly only the first has really played a signifigant role so far.


Amazing... er, no. Megatokyo might be amazing. Sinfest might be amazing. LFG really is not. It's not bad or anything, but it's messy and it lacks focus. And I'm afraid that goes for its writing as well.

You're entitled to your opinion, I suppose. Just so we're clear though: art is very subjective. You can like it or not; that's your choice. Just because Goya's works were "messy and lacked focus" compared to previous artists doesn't lessen their significance. I certainly won't claim that LFG is in Goya's league, but then Goya didn't put out 2 paintings a week either.

I, along with pretty much everyone involved with the LFG forums, show the same concern over Richard's ability to stunt the comic's growth that I am seeing here. Like most psychopaths in fantasy settings (Belkar being a great example), Richard is generally hard to develop without ruining his comedic appeal. As I said previously, I find the authors' attempt to rectify this without minimizing his role in the story very admirable.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Everyone has different tastes in humour. Some people find the Heroic Sociopath archetype inherently amusing. Although personally that type overblown and can't stand 'em unless they've got some other aspects to their personality to fuel the jokes.

However I don't see the lack of comedy in OotS. A typical OotS page has at least half a dozen jokes; just have a look at the current page (#561 if you're reading this in the future :smallwink:). I've only read a few dozen pages of Looking for Group, but it seems to work toward just one punchline per page (which I personally usually find lukewarm at best).

OMG YOU LIVE IN CANBERRA!

And I agree with your points!

Interesting ...

[Holammer]

"Looking for group" is as poor as "Least I could do". Unmitigated manure unfit for publishing. Both ripe with one dimensional characters and LFG walks the extra mile with an unashamed attempt to cash in readers from the WoW phenomena. In fact, it makes Ctrl+Alt+Delete look good, and that's scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

[David Argall]

Let's see...

I look over my list of updated comics and when I find LFG, I go check it, as I do with a great many other comics.
I look over my list of updated comics and when I find OOTS, I ignore it, because I have gone to the site a half-dozen times in the last 24 hours and already know it has updated, and have posted a comment or two on it.

In other words, no comparison. OOTS wins outright.

Now why?
That can be a lot harder to figure out.

Maybe...
Richard does seem to be Johnny One-note, and much of the rest of the cast seems to be pretty much variations on him. So we get a better selection of jokes here.
LFG seems to throw in something new, and distracting, with most strips. OOTS does not let the plot get in the way of the jokes. [The idea that comedy needs a plot is a fantasy dreamed up by people who have studied comedy so deeply they have forgotten what funny is. For most comics, their best efforts have been the ones with the least plot. Anything beyond a basic frame to hang the gags on is a potential distraction.]

But anyway, OOTS wins in a walk.

[Silkenfist]

Am I the only one who considers Richard to be a deeper character than Xykon? They both are undead sociopaths with a cruel idea of humor. However, Richard seems to have something more. We know that he has a serious self-esteem problem (Repeatedly introducing himself, not coping with jokes being made at him, feeling insulted when his power is questioned) and he tries several methods to cope (Display of power, joking even if nobody is listening, drawing spotlight towards him, belittling others, describing himself as invulnerable) which are seriously stunted by his inability to feel empathy for others or abiding to a moral code.

Xykon seems (to me, not having read SoD) irredeamably evil without room for a personality twist. Richard, however, had his Pet the Dog moment, he is suffering inner struggles and - supposedly - has still emotions other than bloodlust. While he is the Belkar/Xykon of LFG now, I am looking forward to see him evolve in the future.

[Jube]

Uh, which part of Megatokyo's art is amazing again? The part where he can't draw Noses or eyes? Or the part where every single female character looks the same and you can't tell them apart?

LFG has far superiour art. The art is really rather impressive.

Unfortunatly the story doesn't compare and the jokes don't amuse me. Richard is a 1 shot wonder, it's the same joke over and over... I haven't read it almost at all so perhaps it's not fair of me to insult the plot but well, it's easy to see why other people found it incomprehensible. It's certainly rather jumpy.

I suppose I wouldn't find it as annoying if I didn't always sympathise with the people they killed rather than them. Being a hardcore Alliance player I tend to have strong feelings towards the Horde (That being; kill em all!) so I don't really like seeing the Alliance slaughtered. But hey

Regardless, not my cupp'a tea. Meh story. 1bit characters and jokes that wear thin too quickly.

And while I'm dissing popular things lemme say; I find Elan almost unbearable and wish as hard as I can that he's killed off, forever.

EDIT: Oh and for a WoW Based Comic it seems to have little WoW bearing. He uses no Warlock spells, is completely Overpowered and... Tears a Demon in Half... A Warlock. A Spellcaster. Tears a Demon apart.

[Ceaon]

Am I the only one who considers Richard to be a deeper character than Xykon?

Nope. Richard is probably deeper than Belkar and Xykon combined. That's the point though. Richard is the character of LFG, whil Belkar is a character of OotS. And Xykon will never pet the dog, he's the Evil Overlord and he's supposed to be irredeemably evil so that when he dies, the readers don't go: "Big No!".

Roy, Haley and Miko are three characters that really draw an emotion from the reader. Name one such character in LFG.

Character development? Roy/Eugene, Elan/V, Haley/Elan, Elan/Julio, Durkon/Vaarsivius, Miko, the list goes on.

That being said, a better plot and more character development (and even a higher joke density) does not a better comic make. Some people will still like LFG "only" because of Richard or the art or or or.

[Arkenputtyknife]

Am I the only one who considers Richard to be a deeper character than Xykon? They both are undead sociopaths with a cruel idea of humor. However, Richard seems to have something more…
This may all be true, but the problem is that I don't care.

If you want me to care about a character and his problems, that character has to be sympathetic. Neither Richard nor Xykon are sympathetic characters, but in Xykon's case it doesn't matter because he's always entertaining.

It says a lot that I have to force myself to read Richard's dialog. My eyes almost automatically skip over his scenes.

[Bayar]

OOTS. I stayed 3 days reading OOTS from comic 1 to 460 something when I first found it. Briliant. LFG, I read it until 96 or something, then I dumped it. The plot is confusing, characters keep randomly poping up into the plot with no warning... Yeah. OOTS is definately better.

Better plot.
Better characters.
Better everything.

All hail OOTS.

[Jahkaivah]

For all those who are criticizing LFG for it's lack of plot and character development:

Yes, you're right to some extent. The point you're missing is the lack of time needed to develop these things. The more obvious reason is that LFG simply hasn't been around long enough to develop as much as OotS has. It took Oots a while to develop into the comic it is now, and it is still changing today. Why is it not reasonable to assume that LFG is going through a similar process?


Theres a huge differance between OOTS and LFG, OOTS went through a successful Cerebus (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.CerebusSyndrome) (successful because the humour wasn't lost when the plot developed), whereas LFG only paused the plot with enough time to introduce all the characters and well.... heh... you mean to tell me its going to develop complexity... how is that a good thing?

The issue (or atleast biggest issue) with LFG's plot isn't complexity, at the moment the reason most people are complaining about the plot is because its confusing them to the point where they stop giving a crap.

Develop the plot further? They will get more confused and give less of a crap.

The problem? I personally don't think LFG has a lack of plot, I'd say it has too much Plot given... well.... Tom Violence put it best in the other thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81768&page=2):


Maybe it still does. But if its a plot that in order to follow requires a skill that only a few in every bajillion possess, then I dare say its either a silly plot, or a badly presented one. Probably both. Again, I think it just boils down to bad writing. The guy needs to take a course on how to present information. The names of people and places are rarely mentioned, and when they are the names are gibberish and nigh-on impossible to actually match up to anything. The world is presented in such a close-up fashion that its impossible to know where anything or anyone is. Etc. Etc. That and, even if the comic isn't all about Richard it clearly leans on him to give it a point whenever anything else fails it, and given that he is basically the definition of a foreground character, its really no wonder that the entire content just passes most people by.

The problem isn't the plot's complexity, the problem is with the writers abbility convey whats going on and flesh out the Plot Holes it forms. Establishing a basic understanding on whats going on and what each character wants is far more important than devloping the plot/characters or acting poetic (something that really irritates me about the writing).

[Gamerlord]

Uh, which part of Megatokyo's art is amazing again? The part where he can't draw Noses or eyes? Or the part where every single female character looks the same and you can't tell them apart?

LFG has far superiour art. The art is really rather impressive.

Unfortunatly the story doesn't compare and the jokes don't amuse me. Richard is a 1 shot wonder, it's the same joke over and over... I haven't read it almost at all so perhaps it's not fair of me to insult the plot but well, it's easy to see why other people found it incomprehensible. It's certainly rather jumpy.

I suppose I wouldn't find it as annoying if I didn't always sympathise with the people they killed rather than them. Being a hardcore Alliance player I tend to have strong feelings towards the Horde (That being; kill em all!) so I don't really like seeing the Alliance slaughtered. But hey

Regardless, not my cupp'a tea. Meh story. 1bit characters and jokes that wear thin too quickly.

And while I'm dissing popular things lemme say; I find Elan almost unbearable and wish as hard as I can that he's killed off, forever.

EDIT: Oh and for a WoW Based Comic it seems to have little WoW bearing. He uses no Warlock spells, is completely Overpowered and... Tears a Demon in Half... A Warlock. A Spellcaster. Tears a Demon apart.
IT IS NOT WOW COMIC IS IT NOT OBVIOUS?!!!!!
Sorry for that outburst...i'm just amazed that a none-LFG reader just made the 1,000 "OMG LFG IS WOW!!!!!!" post

[Jahkaivah]

IT IS NOT WOW COMIC IS IT NOT OBVIOUS?!!!!!
Sorry for that outburst...i'm just amazed that a none-LFG reader just made the 1,000 "OMG LFG IS WOW!!!!!!" post

To be fair Jube said he hadn't read all of it, chances are he hasn't gotten to the blatent not-WoW signs.

[krossbow]

There is a list of comics that i read with anticipation,clicking the refresh buttons once per hour once i'm off work, hoping that it will be updated before i go to sleep. OotS, Dr. Mcninja, and Spookingtons.com before it went on hiatus fit this bill.

Then there are the "filler" comics, the ones that i read just when i remember them, often forgetting about them for weeks at a time. LFG is in this catagory.


The most recent comic illustrates why i HATE LFG. Richard is annoying, overbearing God character, who NEVER has anything remotely painful or bad happen to him. He's an example of how black mage could have gone WRONG.
Due to this, i initially found the last couple comics Intriguing and interesting, as it looked like Richard was finally going to be put through some humerous punishment and grilling. However, He then God modes and tears one of his GUARDS in half without even breaking a sweat. Richard it seems can NEVER be allowed to be shown to have any weakness.
Its the same reason i hate Goku; any and all characters should have a finite amount of strength and not be able to, on a whim, summon up just enough energy to own someone.



All powerful characters== Boring and infuriating at the same time.

Even Xycon has been shown to have weaknesses and show fear, such as in during the ghost martyr comics, when the ghost taunts him about destroying his phylactery, or the dragon in his castle.

[Kish]

To be fair Jube said he hadn't read all of it, chances are he hasn't gotten to the blatent not-WoW signs.
Uh...

I find it really hard to imagine anyone seriously arguing that LFG is not based on WoW (among other sources, but to a greater extent than most).

[Spiryt]

But for me it has one big downside, and it can be summed up in one word: Richard. I find him utterly boring and very predictable: Oh look, a kitten! Now it's a greasy smear! Didn't see that coming. As far as I can see, he has no motivation and kills because it's the only thing he knows how to do. Beyond that, he's an ineffectual and dull buffoon. His prominence in the story is not justified by his contribution to it; he could be deleted entirely, and the story so far would hardly be affected. I think the storytelling would even improve. By contrast, OotS without Xykon (a very similar character at the conceptual level) would be much less than what it is.

Maybe that improves later on, but until it does, I'm enjoying LFG despite Richard, and not because of him.

I agree with it, Richard completely fails as psychopath. Belkar, Xykon, Black Mage great characters, but Richard seems to do just lame "OMG I'm so powerful and so snarky, so I'll just kill them, and them and them" :smallyuk:
Bleh.

[Jube]

IT IS NOT WOW COMIC IS IT NOT OBVIOUS?!!!!!
Sorry for that outburst...i'm just amazed that a none-LFG reader just made the 1,000 "OMG LFG IS WOW!!!!!!" post

How is it not?

It's set in the Warcraft Universe
It's set in the WoW Timespan (Blood Elves are part of the Horde)

The characters, cities and world all seem basically taken from WoW. Aside from the fact Richard is ridiculously overpowered (Well he is a Warlock) and the powers/enemies don't really match with WoW

I mean hell, it's got ****ing Tauren in it. What is it if not a WoW comic?

[Caracol]

I enjoyed LFG the first time I discovered it, but I stopped reading. The plot went too confusing (not too complicated, it's not the same thing: OOTS's plot is complex too, maybe even more, but I don't have problem following it) and I lost interest in the comic.

That's probably because I don't know (and don't like either) WoW that much, and LFG is a WoW comic (it has Blood Elves, Tauren, among the other references. Denying this is like saying that OOTS is not DnD based).

I enjoy Richard, the psycodarkblaster is a common character in a lot of fantasy comics (heck, even mine has one!) so it's nothing too original, but I must say he's funny, and probably was the only reason I read LFG. The problem is that, when Richard is not around, the comic fails to be entertaining.
When it will become "Richard Wackyness Slaughterfest" I will probably read it again, otherwise I won't.

OOTS is better? "Better" is an ambiguous term, but just consider that:

- it has an HUGE fan base
- it was nominated for countless "Best Webcomic" prizes
- it won some of these prizes
- has a number of deep characters, ongoing plotlines, original creation that you couldn't even count them.

Does this qualifies it as better? I don't know you guys, but I read it since strip 200, and I never got bored or disappointed.

[Grym]

But for me it has one big downside, and it can be summed up in one word: Richard. I find him utterly boring and very predictable: Oh look, a kitten! Now it's a greasy smear! Didn't see that coming. As far as I can see, he has no motivation and kills because it's the only thing he knows how to do. Beyond that, he's an ineffectual and dull buffoon. His prominence in the story is not justified by his contribution to it; he could be deleted entirely, and the story so far would hardly be affected. I think the storytelling would even improve. By contrast, OotS without Xykon (a very similar character at the conceptual level) would be much less than what it is.
While Richard's killing is hardly unpredictable and what you expect from him, that's not what forms the main element of his humour. Rather, his humour focuses around the witty one-liners he delivers along with the killing, and his interaction with Cale (Them forming the funny man and straight man duo)




- it has an HUGE fan base
- it was nominated for countless "Best Webcomic" prizes
- it won some of these prizes
- has a number of deep characters, ongoing plotlines, original creation that you couldn't even count them.

-And over 300 more pages than LFG?

[Caracol]

While Richard's killing is hardly unpredictable and what you expect from him, that's not what forms the main element of his humour. Rather, his humour focuses around the witty one-liners he delivers along with the killing, and his interaction with Cale (Them forming the funny man and straight man duo)

That's true, Richard is not funny because he kills things but because he does it that way, and for his one-liners. But a whole comic can not sustain itself with one-liners. Have you noticed that the discussion about LFG has become a discussion about Richard? That's because LFG is Richard, more or less. It's the primary source of entertainment, and without him, the comic is pretty much a confused storyline with boring characters in it. Cale was good for comedic purposes until he became the emotional-refusing-his-own-bad-kin-two-scimitars-wielding-with-a-panther-companion-guy. In other words, this guy.
http://www.omegaomni.com/Images/DrizztDoUrden.jpg


-And over 300 more pages than LFG?
So, your point? Are you especting that a comic about a single good character, that has witty remarks as his only comedic weapon, and offers repetitive entertainement but only when is not busy in evolving a more and more confused storyline, will become the next OOTS in 300 strips?

[Jahkaivah]

Oh dear... we did not just start the "is it WoW?" argument? This should be common knowledge

Heck heres the quote straight from the writers mouth:


Looking for Group is a Fantasy/Humor comic that tells the ongoing tales of Cale, Richard, Krunch, Benny and Sooba. While we may parody World of Warcraft, Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time, George RR. Martin’s Song of Fire and Ice, Terry Goodkind’s Sword of Truth, Everquest, Lord of the Rings and pretty much every MMO and piece of fiction we can get our hands on, LFG is set in its own world, with its own races, rules and history.

Just because there is clear inspiration or intention to parody, doesn't mean the writers have based the webcomic directly in the universe, which is what Jube was under the inpression of and Gamerkid critcising him for.

And if the guy who writes the comic can't convince you, heres a bunch of other things to consider:

-Try to take notice of names, not a single town or country or royalty mentioned is part of the warcraft universe, nor is a single Warcraft specific race named.
-That Gnomish hideout seems to lack a cog or two.
-The characters in LFG have no idea what race benny is... even though she clearly resembles a warcraft troll (we also see a LFG interpretation of what a troll is, admittedly a half-bred one)
-"I'm just pleased to learn that the Elven were not always evil" says Cael, notice he didn''t state blood elves. (Also as the common WoW-fanboy will point out, the horde in general aren't evil either)
-As far as I know, Warcraft does not have cat people, beholders, lizard people or a headless mouth-torso man.
-We've had a fair bit of backstory and mythology shuved down our throats, none of it fits with the WoW universe.
-Tauren? Its incredible how WoW seems to make everyone forget what a Minotaur is, notice these so called "Tauren" have no tails.


Denying this is like saying that OOTS is not DnD based

OOTS is DnD inspired, there isn't a Dungeon and Dragon realm where they worship nordic gods or animals of the chinese zodiac, nor is there one which has gates which hold a world threatening force of destruction.. Just because there is clear inspiration or intention to parody, doesn't mean the writers have based the webcomic directly in the universe, which is what Jube was under the inpression of and Gamerkid critcising him for.

I hope you guys feel very silly... the "Other Webcomics" thread has actually ceased discussion for now with a neat conclusion that I reckon even the LFG fanbase can agree with, and thats because the people other there can argue constructively.

[Caracol]

Oh dear... we did not just start the "is it WoW?" argument?


We did not, but actually, by trying to prove your point, you are starting it just now.
There are a lot of things I can say about the things you pointed out, but this is not "LFG is WoW" thread, unless we want so, but "LFG is better than OOTS?" thread. Finding out if LFG is WoW would be easy, but honestly, who cares. The problems that the comic has still stand, WoW or not.


OOTS is DnD inspired, there isn't a Dungeon and Dragon realm where they worship nordic gods or animals of the chinese zodiac, nor is there one which has gates which hold a world threatening force of destruction.. Just because there is clear inspiration or intention to parody, doesn't mean the writers have based the webcomic directly in the universe, which is what Jube was under the inpression of and Gamerkid critcising him for.

Based, inspired... you get it. It's unnecessary nitpicking. Much of the first part of OOTS was a continuous reference to the DnD game system, because, as you said, there is not such thing as a DnD universe: DnD allows you to create your own.
Unlike Warcraft, that is actually a setting rather than a game system. LFG appears to do continuous references to this setting. I don't know if it's slightly inspired or massively based on WoW, who cares. I still don't see your point here. The fact that is all original concept that the authors came up with would make LFG a better comic?



I hope you guys feel very silly... the "Other Webcomics" thread has actually ceased discussion for now with a neat conclusion that I reckon even the LFG fanbase can agree with, and thats because the people other there can argue constructively.

Thank you, for not realizing that the fact that we are trying to analyze the comic istead of screaming "LFG sucks", and for saying that we can't argue constructively because we disagree on your views.

[Arkenputtyknife]

While Richard's killing is hardly unpredictable and what you expect from him, that's not what forms the main element of his humour. Rather, his humour focuses around the witty one-liners he delivers along with the killing, and his interaction with Cale (Them forming the funny man and straight man duo)
When I find myself laughing at one of Richard's "witty one-liners", I'll let you know. So far, his sense of humor has fallen flat for me.

And I disagree. Without his killing, he'd have nothing to make "witty one-liners" about.

[Jube]

This is a side issue so I feel a little silly really debating it, still some'a your points seem a little suprising to me.



-Try to take notice of names, not a single town or country or royalty mentioned is part of the warcraft universe, nor is a single Warcraft specific race named.

Except that the characters are

Undead Warlock, Tauren Warrior, Blood Elf Hunter, Orc Priest and I think I saw a Gnome somewhere, not sure? The only one of those that isn't a legal WoW class is the Orc Priest, they're all drawn EXACTLY (or very very very very close to) like the WoW versions and the world is portrayed almost identical in colours and design to the WoW one.

That's not even mentioning the Elementals which look exactly the same nor the various townsmen that look exactly the same (Either Dwarf or Human). Perhaps this is parodying "Wheel of Time" or "Song of Fire and Ice" or something, but well, take a look at WoW, then take a look at the Comic and tell me it doesn't appear set in Hillsbrad.



-The characters in LFG have no idea what race benny is... even though she clearly resembles a warcraft troll (we also see a LFG interpretation of what a troll is, admittedly a half-bred one)

I stand corrected about the Orc Priest then, apparently she's a Troll Priest. I should'a taken a closer look. This means, of course that's a legal WoW character. So... It's so ridiculously WoW based it's not even funny.



-"I'm just pleased to learn that the Elven were not always evil" says Cael, notice he didn''t state blood elves. (Also as the common WoW-fanboy will point out, the horde in general aren't evil either)

More to the point they're not evil anymore. More to the point, Orcs aren't evil anymore, Tauren never were and Trolls well. Trolls and Undead are evil, Undead far more so of course, but yeah. Still look at any of the WC history pre3 and the Horde was evil as it came, it all got retconned away but still... Some of use preffered it like that.



-As far as I know, Warcraft does not have cat people, beholders, lizard people or a headless mouth-torso man.

Which is why I found that comic so wierd/jarring. I assumed since it was in another plane he was taking a creative liscene, which is fair enough, we haven't seen all that many demon types in WoW so far. Still, yeah, to someone who hadn't read the whole thing, or who didn't know it wasn't meant to be "WoW based" that was definatly odd.



-We've had a fair bit of backstory and mythology shuved down our throats, none of it fits with the WoW universe.

Skipped it all, I'll take your word on this.



-Tauren? Its incredible how WoW seems to make everyone forget what a Minotaur is, notice these so called "Tauren" have no tails.

Except they're not drawn as Minotaur. They're drawn exactly and completely like Tauren. They don't live in a Maze or a cave, they live in tribal communes. I didn't even notice the lack of tail, but I mean, c'mon. You can't draw a perfect copy of an Orc, give it 6 fingers and then say "Ah, see it's not an Orc. Orc's don't have 6 fingers". They're clearly Tauren <.<


I guess what I'm trying to say is. Sure it's "Not WoW based" but really, the only time that matters is when he's making up his unintelligable and confusing (According to the people in this thread, I skipped it all when I skimmed the comic) lore. The non-WoW elements are so small and trivial it appears he could remove them all and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Regardless, okay. It's not a WoW comic... It's just 99% of a WoW comic =P

[Laurentio]

You know, after reading all comments this far, and removing all negative output, I got a good resume of both webcomics.
Really, someone should stop reading comics he doesn't like.

Laurentio

[Tom_Violence]

Regardless, okay. It's not a WoW comic... It's just 99% of a WoW comic =P

That sounds about right. You can have a go at the author for being a rip-off all you like, but you can't complain when he doesn't do thing the "WoW-way", cos he's explicitly stated that that's not his goal.

What this really just goes to show is that he may in fact be such a bad writer that he can't even clearly distinguish his own creation from its very obvious influences. So while you may be wrong to think it is a WoW comic, that is entirely understandable since, short of the author actually telling you this is so, there's really no way anyone could've guessed.


Really, someone should stop reading comics he doesn't like.


Oh, come now! Where's your sense of adventure?

[Jahkaivah]

We did not, but actually, by trying to prove your point, you are starting it just now.

So what was Jube or Gamerkid's posts? They were starting an argument, I considered my post ending it. Lets see if I did.


Based, inspired... you get it. It's unnecessary nitpicking. Much of the first part of OOTS was a continuous reference to the DnD game system, because, as you said, there is not such thing as a DnD universe: DnD allows you to create your own.
Unlike Warcraft, that is actually a setting rather than a game system. LFG appears to do continuous references to this setting. I don't know if it's slightly inspired or massively based on WoW, who cares.

Look... a argument formed over whether or not LFG was a WoW comic, (and by saying a WoW comic I mean set in the WoW universe), this would have sparked a needless debate, I was trying to end it by stating the facts. Again, lets see if I did it.


Thank you, for not realizing that the fact that we are trying to analyze the comic istead of screaming "LFG sucks", and for saying that we can't argue constructively because we disagree on your views.

What do you mena by "we disagree on your views", if you talking about LFG vs OOTS I prefer OOTS.

I wasn't talking about you specificly, you were one of the few people who were atleast backing what you said. But I personally consider thread de-railment as destructive arguments.



Also I know I sounded a bit rude, sorry about that.




What this really just goes to show is that he may in fact be such a bad writer that he can't even clearly distinguish his own creation from its very obvious influences. So while you may be wrong to think it is a WoW comic, that is entirely understandable since, short of the author actually telling you this is so, there's really no way anyone could've guessed.


The WoWness dropped after the time travel bit, WoW is of course, essentially generic fantasy, only really unique thing being the cartooney style which I reckon has more to do with Least I Could Do's art style than WoW. When they ending up walking through a past of their world which was notably not Warcraft back story I assumed anyone who read it would figure that out.

But... now come to think about it, its not all that obvious, I was wrong. Of course, in the end, it just stacks against LFG's favor when it comes to originality.

[Kish]

Look... a argument formed over whether or not LFG was a WoW comic, (and by saying a WoW comic I mean set in the WoW universe),And that's the thing. You're trying to win by narrowing the definition rather than by convincing the people you're arguing with. No one is likely to claim that it's set in a universe exactly like WoW (though Jude and I would perhaps disagree over whether the first comic stating that the protagonists are "evil races" is enough to establish that it is not). I certainly hope no one is going to assert that it is not based on WoW. Whether the former makes it "NOT WOW COMIC" as gamerkid asserted, or the latter makes it "WOW COMIC," is a matter of opinion.

[Jayngfet]

This is a side issue so I feel a little silly really debating it, still some'a your points seem a little suprising to me.



Except that the characters are

Undead Warlock, Tauren Warrior, Blood Elf Hunter, Orc Priest and I think I saw a Gnome somewhere, not sure? The only one of those that isn't a legal WoW class is the Orc Priest, they're all drawn EXACTLY (or very very very very close to) like the WoW versions and the world is portrayed almost identical in colours and design to the WoW one.

WOW didn't make most of those concepts thec could just as easily be:
Human Lich sorcerer(or wizard), High elf ranger, Orc cleric, Minotaur fighter.



That's not even mentioning the Elementals which look exactly the same nor the various townsmen that look exactly the same (Either Dwarf or Human). Perhaps this is parodying "Wheel of Time" or "Song of Fire and Ice" or something, but well, take a look at WoW, then take a look at the Comic and tell me it doesn't appear set in Hillsbrad.


Or any other location in any other game/book/movie/tv show, geographical features aren't unique.



I stand corrected about the Orc Priest then, apparently she's a Troll Priest. I should'a taken a closer look. This means, of course that's a legal WoW character. So... It's so ridiculously WoW based it's not even funny.


Did you miss the bit with the trolls, they're closr to warcraft ogres than warcraft trolls, even those big trolls.



Which is why I found that comic so wierd/jarring. I assumed since it was in another plane he was taking a creative liscene, which is fair enough, we haven't seen all that many demon types in WoW so far. Still, yeah, to someone who hadn't read the whole thing, or who didn't know it wasn't meant to be "WoW based" that was definatly odd.


We've seen tons of demons in wow, the dranai have a galary with building sized models of every type, plus behavior descriptions.



Except they're not drawn as Minotaur. They're drawn exactly and completely like Tauren. They don't live in a Maze or a cave, they live in tribal communes. I didn't even notice the lack of tail, but I mean, c'mon. You can't draw a perfect copy of an Orc, give it 6 fingers and then say "Ah, see it's not an Orc. Orc's don't have 6 fingers". They're clearly Tauren <.<

What about the forest environment thing, tauren live on plains, with no giants.



I guess what I'm trying to say is. Sure it's "Not WoW based" but really, the only time that matters is when he's making up his unintelligable and confusing (According to the people in this thread, I skipped it all when I skimmed the comic) lore. The non-WoW elements are so small and trivial it appears he could remove them all and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Regardless, okay. It's not a WoW comic... It's just 99% of a WoW comic =P

What about the Drow sailor, she was important to events for a bit, or the giant who showed that rechard can't kill everything, or the beholder, or the things judging Richard, or the fact that gnomes don't use high technology, or Cales non-glowing eyes, or...

[Jube]

WOW didn't make most of those concepts thec could just as easily be:
Human Lich sorcerer(or wizard), High elf ranger, Orc cleric, Minotaur fighter.


Except you missed the point that they're drawn exactly like the WoW equivilents.

I'd far sooner believe they were a Forsaken/UD Warlock, BE Hunter, Troll Priest and Tauren Warrior. I mean for gods sake it's not a Minotaur. It doesn't even look like a Minotaur, it looks like a Tauren.

And Richard is not a Sorcerer, or a Wizard he's a Warlock. I imagine you were making some point here though. Either way they're very very clearly WoW character Archetypes.



Or any other location in any other game/book/movie/tv show, geographical features aren't unique.

Possibly it's due to the fact that the characters are taken right from WoW but reading the first parts of the Comic I could definatly see Hillsbrad. Even now it seems more likely than... "Generic Fantasy Land"



Did you miss the bit with the trolls, they're closr to warcraft ogres than warcraft trolls, even those big trolls.

And yet the character looks EXACTLY like a WoW Troll Priest. Which was my point. Also, yes I did miss that; Once again only read the first few comics and some of the recent ones mentioned in this thread



We've seen tons of demons in wow, the dranai have a galary with building sized models of every type, plus behavior descriptions.

A small sampling of the Demon population. Possibly that's all the types of Demons, or most, I don't really know/care. My point is I could easily believe a piece of writing claiming being in another demon infested plane you'd be surrounded by plenty of hithero unseen demons.



What about the forest environment thing, tauren live on plains, with no giants.

What about the Drow sailor, she was important to events for a bit, or the giant who showed that rechard can't kill everything, or the beholder, or the things judging Richard, or the fact that gnomes don't use high technology, or Cales non-glowing eyes, or...

Again, haven't read the comic. Don't care to read the comic

The Gnomes look EXACTLY like WoW Gnomes(Not fantasy Gnomes), Cale's eyes don't glow but plenty of WoW artists don't draw Elves with glowing eyes it's not a lore thing just a WoW thing.

I'm not arguing that it's set in the WoW-verse, I can see that, it's been explained. My point is that it's set in a world that's so ridiculously and completely the same as the WoW-verse that it's hillarious.

He's traced it, changed one or two things, thrown in some very very minor details from other fantasy and we're meant to believe it's a general parody? It's a WoW comic that doesn't limit itself to WoW when parodying fantasy.

Again, if you copy a Tauren, right down to the stance hair and colouring then remove the tail. Still doesn't make it a Minotaur.

[Kurald Galain]

Really, someone should stop reading comics he doesn't like.


Let me introduce you to the two biggest threads in this forum - the Strip Slays and the Dominic Deegan one.... there's lots of people reading comics they don't like.

[Kurald Galain]

Except you missed the point that they're drawn exactly like the WoW equivilents.

I'd far sooner believe they were a Forsaken/UD Warlock, BE Hunter, Troll Priest and Tauren Warrior. I mean for gods sake it's not a Minotaur. It doesn't even look like a Minotaur, it looks like a Tauren.

Yep. It's plain as day.

Perhaps the comic started out as an intentional WOW comic for the first ten pages or so, and then the author decided he wanted a different direction. Because that happens a lot in webcomics.

[Caracol]

there's lots of people reading comics they don't like.

Not to mention that you actually have to read a webcomic before you know if you like it or not.

[Jahkaivah]

And that's the thing. You're trying to win by narrowing the definition rather than by convincing the people you're arguing with. No one is likely to claim that it's set in a universe exactly like WoW (though Jude and I would perhaps disagree over whether the first comic stating that the protagonists are "evil races" is enough to establish that it is not). I certainly hope no one is going to assert that it is not based on WoW. Whether the former makes it "NOT WOW COMIC" as gamerkid asserted, or the latter makes it "WOW COMIC," is a matter of opinion.

To be honest you've pointed out precisely why I narrowed the definition, when people say "WoW comic" or "Based on WoW" its hard to know quite what they mean. If I state the facts then we know what the answer is. If, like Jube, you meant "set in the WoW universe" you will know you were wrong.

If you meant "set in a universe heavily inspired-by/basically rips-off WoW", well then, I reckon you were right.

[Lorn]

I've read the first parts of LFG and thought it sucked. hard. So I'll say OOTS.
The first parts of any webcomic will, most of the time, be less good than the rest of a webcomic - take the start of OOTS, then compare it to, say, the first while with Miko. Or take the start of TSOALR and compare it to later, funnier, parts of TSOALR. Or the start of CAD and the later parts of CAD. Even 8Bit Theatre, really. You can't really compare the first parts of one webcomic to the later parts of another.


That "Richard" character is fooking retaded and so are his fanboys.
... you base assumptions of a person on their sense of humour?



Anyway - although I like LFG (a LOT), I'm going to have to say OOTS. More plot, more funnies - though LFG certainly isn't lacking, as far as I'm concerned.

And don't say LFG completely lacks character development - take a look at Cale and how he changes. I've always seen the story as being based around him and how he changes at the turning point of his life - the other characters having already reached this. Thus, more character development could be expected from him.

[Caracol]

The first parts of any webcomic will, most of the time, be less good than the rest of a webcomic - take the start of OOTS, then compare it to, say, the first while with Miko. Or take the start of TSOALR and compare it to later, funnier, parts of TSOALR. Or the start of CAD and the later parts of CAD. Even 8Bit Theatre, really. You can't really compare the first parts of one webcomic to the later parts of another.

I disagree. If you focus on particular aspects, like art, character concepts, jokes, you can compare them, and you can also compare two distant (in time) part of the same comic, to figure out improvements, flaws or differences.




And don't say LFG completely lacks character development - take a look at Cale and how he changes. I've always seen the story as being based around him and how he changes at the turning point of his life - the other characters having already reached this. Thus, more character development could be expected from him.

These are my toughts on Cale (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4417813&postcount=82).

[North]

I like LFG but OOTS is definitely the superior product here.

[BRC]

I disagree. If you focus on particular aspects, like art, character concepts, jokes, you can compare them, and you can also compare two distant (in time) part of the same comic, to figure out improvements, flaws or differences.




These are my toughts on Cale (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4417813&postcount=82).

Actually, I heard the authors say some where that, despite creating a dual scimatar wielding elf with a panther companion (Although Richard later stole said panther) who rebels against his own evil kind, they had never heard of Drizzt before people accused them of making a clone of him.

[Caracol]

Actually, I heard the authors say some where that, despite creating a dual scimatar wielding elf with a panther companion (Although Richard later stole said panther) who rebels against his own evil kind, they had never heard of Drizzt before people accused them of making a clone of him.

Probably true. Still, Cale now is unsuitalble for comedic purposes (as Drizzt could be) and that's why the Richard - Cale comedic duo, one of the good things in the first part of the comic, don't work anymore. And that's not a good thing.

I wasn't trying to say that Cale was a rip-off, but that it was funny and now it isn't.

[David Argall]

Probably true.

Let's make that possibly. The simularities are rather massive and the claim of no knowledge both difficult to believe and self-interested.

[FujinAkari]

Let's make that possibly. The simularities are rather massive and the claim of no knowledge both difficult to believe and self-interested.

I agree. I personally have great difficulty believing that anyone working in the field of fantasy literature could possibly be unaware of who Drizz't is. I would say Drizz't is the third or fourth most well known storyline in fantasy (coming in behild LotR, Harry Potter and -possibly- Narnia)

Its like a Theology Major not knowing who Siddhartha is O.o

[Jahkaivah]

I agree. I personally have great difficulty believing that anyone working in the field of fantasy literature could possibly be unaware of who Drizz't is. I would say Drizz't is the third or fourth most well known storyline in fantasy (coming in behild LotR, Harry Potter and -possibly- Narnia)

Its like a Theology Major not knowing who Siddhartha is O.o

Not really relavant, but I have a hard time believing Drizzt is that well known.

But your right its also hard to believe that they wouldn't have heard of him.

[Firestar27]

How is it not?

It's set in the Warcraft Universe
It's set in the WoW Timespan (Blood Elves are part of the Horde)

The characters, cities and world all seem basically taken from WoW. Aside from the fact Richard is ridiculously overpowered (Well he is a Warlock) and the powers/enemies don't really match with WoW

I mean hell, it's got ****ing Tauren in it. What is it if not a WoW comic?

It is not a WoW comic. It is not set in the WoW universe. I think there was a map put up. It is heavily influenced by WoW, but it isn't actually a WoW comic, like OOTS is a DnD comic. It doesn't use WoW rules.

I like OOTS better, but LFG is still really good. The art is amazing. The plot (once you figure it out) is great. It's just poorly presented. Richard has too much focus in the comic, and needs to be toned down. But there has already been character developed. We find out more about Krunch as the comic goes on. Out perception of him changes from a powerful brute to a interested scholar. Cale (who is the plot's main character) has truely developed. He used to be innocent and noble. But he changed. He has killed in anger, and what he thought was an innocent life. He has begun to lead. Once you figure out the plot, it's great.
But OOTS is still better. It has a better plot (LFG is more high fantasy, but OOTS has a stronger foundation for its plot, as well as a clearer presentation). OOTS is also funnier.

[Kurald Galain]

Actually, I heard the authors say some where that, despite creating a dual scimatar wielding elf with a panther companion (Although Richard later stole said panther) who rebels against his own evil kind, they had never heard of Drizzt before people accused them of making a clone of him.

Pull the other one.



Not really relavant, but I have a hard time believing Drizzt is that well known.
Oh come on, every halfway-decent fantasy webcomic has done a parody of him, from Zz'dtri to Drizz'l to the whole gang in Elf Only Inn.

[Paladin29]

I agree, the knowledge about Salvatore´s character is widespread.

[Remirach]

Oh come on, every halfway-decent fantasy webcomic has done a parody of him, from Zz'dtri to Drizz'l to the whole gang in Elf Only Inn.
Where fantasy and games collide, he's ubiquitous. If you're into just plain fantasy novels though, you may well have heard of Paul Atreides, Rand al'Thor, Belgarath, Allanon or many sundry others long before him. (LotR was already specifically mentioned before this post.) I can personally attest.

[Jayngfet]

I agree. I personally have great difficulty believing that anyone working in the field of fantasy literature could possibly be unaware of who Drizz't is. I would say Drizz't is the third or fourth most well known storyline in fantasy (coming in behild LotR, Harry Potter and -possibly- Narnia)

Its like a Theology Major not knowing who Siddhartha is O.o

Especially considering that there are obvious DnD monsters.

They claim to not know about Drizzt, and yet they're fantasy writers who use lots of gaming referances.

They claim that they came up with the elf leaving his evil kin while dual wielding scimitars with his panther animal companion all on there own.

They even have the gall to say that no one told them when they made Cale a good exception elf fron the first comic.

I'm not buying that for one second.

[BRC]

Especially considering that there are obvious DnD monsters.

They claim to not know about Drizzt, and yet they're fantasy writers who use lots of gaming referances.

They claim that they came up with the elf leaving his evil kin while dual wielding scimitars with his panther animal companion all on there own.

They even have the gall to say that no one told them when they made Cale a good exception elf fron the first comic.

I'm not buying that for one second.

I think it's possible that they could have come up with the concept on their own. I don't think it's possible that they had never heard of such a famous character and then happened to come up with what is essentially a pallet-swap of said character.

[Gamerlord]

How is it not?

It's set in the Warcraft Universe
It's set in the WoW Timespan (Blood Elves are part of the Horde)

The characters, cities and world all seem basically taken from WoW. Aside from the fact Richard is ridiculously overpowered (Well he is a Warlock) and the powers/enemies don't really match with WoW

I mean hell, it's got ****ing Tauren in it. What is it if not a WoW comic?
It is not set in the warcraft universe.
and he is a minotaur
and to those who thinks richard stinks....
Richard rules because when he kills, he makes it funny.....
with belkar? it's just kicking puppys.
And who cares if he's overpowered that is what makes him awesome!

[Caracol]

It is not set in the warcraft universe.
and he is a minotaur
and to those who thinks richard stinks....
Richard rules because when he kills, he makes it funny.....
with belkar? it's just kicking puppys.
And who cares if he's overpowered that is what makes him awesome!

- It's set in a original universe that unfortunately looks really similar to warcraft. I'm not talking about places, I'm talking about races and general lore.
- he's clearly a tauren. Because taurens go in party with other adventurers in warcraft, and minotaurs don't. The party looks like an Horde party because it's an Horde party.
- Richard is an undead. He clearly stinks anyway. Even if it's the best character in the comic.
- Belkar is not funny because he kills things. This would make him unfunny in all the strips where is not killing, and this is not true.
- Richard is awesome because he's funny in a sort of way. Not because he's overpowered.

And pointing out these things make LFG a better comic? No, it just makes people like me go nitpicking on the things you said. Please next time give us good reasons why LFG is a good comic.

[FujinAkari]

It is not set in the warcraft universe.

It is set in a warcraft universe the same way OOTS is set in a D&D universe. The fact that there isn't a literal campaign setting which has the same cosmetology as OOTS doesn't lessen the fact that the game is based almost entirely upon the D&D rulebooks. Its the same with LFG, the few intentional differences do not change the fact that LFG is based almost entirely upon World of Warcraft.


and he is a minotaur

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a frickin' duck! Same thing here, he is a Tauren, not a minotaur. He doesn't display ANY minotaur-specific traits (labyrinth-living, isolationist, taste for virgins) yet displays a number of Tauren-specific traits (loyalty to Undead and Trolls, Massive Strength, affinity for physical combat).

Yeah, he's a Tauren, face it.

[Holammer]

he is a Tauren, not a minotaur. He doesn't display ANY minotaur-specific traits (labyrinth-living, isolationist, taste for virgins) yet displays a number of Tauren-specific traits (loyalty to Undead and Trolls, Massive Strength, affinity for physical combat).

Yeah, he's a Tauren, face it.

I'd say FujinAkari just pulled the discussion regarding Minotaur/tauren into the woods and finished it off with a shotgun. Any further attempt to discuss it would be madness, and not the cool & manly type either. :smallwink:

[Baelzar]

First off, I'd like to thank both artists for their work. Free entertainment of this quality is rare.

The art is technically better in LFG, but I don't read comics for their art. And the OOTS style is unique and appealing to me.

The thing that hooked me on OOTS, from the very first comic, was the D&D humor. From the beginning it tips a wink and a nod to all D&D players, an inside joke for all of us.

Furthermore, OOTS is just plain funny. Not simply one-liner funny, but genuinely rich with humor. Comedy is HARD, but OOTS continually delivers the goods. Only characters with depth can provide that environment.

I actually envy people who haven't read the strip, and I have on more than one occasion taken great pride in gifting it to others. Same with Terry Pratchett novels.

I'll continue to read LFG, but it will never create the anticipation that OOTS does.