PDA

View Full Version : Dwarves In Spaaace!



Jayngfet
2008-05-30, 08:40 PM
I was working on my science homework and got to daydreaming again and I thought...


...With the right spells applied to the right places, using core spells you could make a viable spaceship and spacesuit(suit or armor with enhancements and spells in each part).

So anyways, what would happen if some wizard or cleric goes through with this, and what would they find out there?

Xefas
2008-05-30, 08:42 PM
what would they find out there?

The Far Realm, Cthulhu, and Vestiges, I imagine.

Patashu
2008-05-30, 08:44 PM
There ought to be some race chillin' on the moon. Or a whole ecosystem if you're feeling ambitious.

FlyMolo
2008-05-30, 08:45 PM
Get past the breathing problem, and check the vacuum rules under Nailed to The Sky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/nailedToTheSky.htm). Epic spell.

So with some DR and fire/cold resistance, you're golden. Bottle of Air or necklace of adaptation would be a good idea. And I once worked out the damage a falling one-pound object deals, assuming it's dropped from the moon, assuming it's nothing but gravity toward earth all the way down. Completely wrong, but hey. The damage is enough to drill a hole through 800 miles of solid rock. A 100-pound object is 7 times that. Yeah. The earth is only 2000 odd miles radius, so yeah, you could punch right through.

Edit: there's a thread out there, where I did the math. Moon liches.

Patashu
2008-05-30, 08:48 PM
Get past the breathing problem, and check the vacuum rules under Nailed to The Sky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/nailedToTheSky.htm). Epic spell.

So with some DR and fire/cold resistance, you're golden. Bottle of Air or necklace of adaptation would be a good idea. And I once worked out the damage a falling one-pound object deals, assuming it's dropped from the moon, assuming it's nothing but gravity toward earth all the way down. Completely wrong, but hey. The damage is enough to drill a hole through 800 miles of solid rock. A 100-pound object is 7 times that. Yeah. The earth is only 2000 odd miles radius, so yeah, you could punch right through.

Edit: there's a thread out there, where I did the math. Moon liches.

Doesn't falling damage cut off at 20d6 to simulate terminal velocity, anyway? If you're dropping it in a vacuum you'd have to houserule it.

Jayngfet
2008-05-30, 08:50 PM
Doesn't falling damage cut off at 20d6 to simulate terminal velocity, anyway? If you're dropping it in a vacuum you'd have to houserule it.

Which is why it can fly and probably has feather fall.

tyckspoon
2008-05-30, 08:51 PM
A giant, nigh-impassible crystal bubble.
Something much like real-world space (so essentially lots of nothing.)
A gigantic sheet of black velvet specked with really really shiny rhinestones.

Lupy
2008-05-30, 08:53 PM
My vote is a crystal bubble and some pissed Gods, "YOU MAY NOT LEAVE BY THIS PATH MORTAL!!!

JaxGaret
2008-05-30, 08:54 PM
Telekinetic Sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telekineticSphere.htm).

Collin152
2008-05-30, 09:01 PM
Go straight up. Pretty soon, you'll be back at earth, but on the other side.

Farmer42
2008-05-30, 09:10 PM
Spelljammer! It's DnD... INNNNNN SPAAAAAAAAAACE! I know someone out there has a 3.5 conversion for it.

Sir_Elderberry
2008-05-30, 09:16 PM
First one to take an adventuring party to a Borg Cube wins.

TheCleric
2008-05-30, 09:20 PM
"Greyhawk, we have a problem."

FlyMolo
2008-05-30, 09:28 PM
Doesn't falling damage cut off at 20d6 to simulate terminal velocity, anyway? If you're dropping it in a vacuum you'd have to houserule it.No air=no terminal velocity=Moon Lich mining company, "no hole too deep".

A trifling houserule. "If there's no air to slow you down, you don't slow down."

And in fact, I haven't taken the atmosphere or the moon's own gravity into account. The moon's own gravity would extend 1/6 of 250000 miles. so about 40k miles. You'd have to break that range limit to hit the earth, realistically. A Fantastic Machine has range increment of 150 feet, and Wind Tunnel, Hawkeye, and Accuracy(spells) and far shot all give x2, +50%, and x2 and +50%, respectively, to range increment. Hawkeye is personal only, but craft a custom item for it. Please. Anyway, respecting 2x2=x3, that makes 4*150=600, times 10 range increments max range, makes a mile and a bit. We're 1/40 of the way there. What you really need is a trebuchet.

Start over. Heavy trebuchet range increment 300 ft. Much better. apply all the right spells, get a range increment of 1200 feet. 12k feet makes about 2 miles. much closer, but not there yet.

And even if you did, let's see. HoB says 3 squares per range increment. 250k miles makes lots of feet. 3 squares per range increment for dropped (50 feet) makes 75k miles average miss. You couldn't hit the earth. The earth isn't wide enough. If you take our boosted range increment of 1200, your shot drifts by 3125 miles. So if the earth is a dinner plate, if you aimed at the middle, you could hit somewhere on the inner bit, not counting the rim. But you could go right through, so thats okay.

Anyone got another range increment increaser? not counting epic distant shot, which makes this all easy.

Innis Cabal
2008-05-30, 09:31 PM
Look to Spelljammer

Farmer42
2008-05-30, 09:48 PM
Undead Soarwhale get's you to the upper atmosphere. From there, a trebuchet or some such might actually work.

Neftren
2008-05-30, 09:53 PM
Anyone interested in playing a campaign to find out whether this is actually feasible? I just got an interesting new campaign idea with which to run in 3.5e... I'll go do some more official storyboard planning if anyone is interested in playing a game of this type.

KillianHawkeye
2008-05-30, 09:58 PM
Just steal a space ship from the Illithids or the Neogi.

FlyMolo
2008-05-30, 10:03 PM
Anyone interested in playing a campaign to find out whether this is actually feasible? I just got an interesting new campaign idea with which to run in 3.5e... I'll go do some more official storyboard planning if anyone is interested in playing a game of this type.

I'm in. As a player, I guess. And I volunteer to do the math. ( I might regret that)

Chronos
2008-05-30, 10:49 PM
Quoth Robert A. Heinlein:

"Manuel, you asked us to wait while Mike settled your questions. Let's get back to the basic problem: how we are to cope when we find ourselves facing Terra, David facing Goliath."

"Oh. Been hoping that would go away. Mike? You really have ideas?"

"I said I did, Man,", he answered plaintively. "We can throw rocks."(The Moon is a Harsh Mistress)

As for the question of how fast a projectile would be going when it hits the Earth, the proper way to go about it is to compare the gravitational potentials of the surfaces of the Earth and the Moon. The gravitational potential is given by Phi = -GM/r . The Moon has a mass of 7.35*1022 kg, and a radius of 1737 km, giving it a potential at the surface of -2.82*106 m2/s2. The Earth has a mass of 5.97*1024 kg and a radius of 6378 km, giving it a potential at the surface of -6.25*107 m2/s2 . The difference is then 5.96*107 m2/s2, so an object launched from the Moon to the Earth would have an energy on impact of that times its mass (plus whatever kinetic energy it had initially on launch). I don't feel like calculating how much extra energy that would have to be (it is, after all, a Friday evening), so let's just go with the previous figure. That means that we're looking at a speed on impact of 10.9 km/s, very near the escape speed of the Earth (as might be expected).

Sir_Elderberry
2008-05-30, 10:54 PM
Quoth Robert A. Heinlein:
(The Moon is a Harsh Mistress)

As for the question of how fast a projectile would be going when it hits the Earth, the proper way to go about it is to compare the gravitational potentials of the surfaces of the Earth and the Moon. The gravitational potential is given by Phi = -GM/r . The Moon has a mass of 7.35*1022 kg, and a radius of 1737 km, giving it a potential at the surface of -2.82*106 m2/s2. The Earth has a mass of 5.97*1024 kg and a radius of 6378 km, giving it a potential at the surface of -6.25*107 m2/s2 . The difference is then 5.96*107 m2/s2, so an object launched from the Moon to the Earth would have an energy on impact of that times its mass (plus whatever kinetic energy it had initially on launch). I don't feel like calculating how much extra energy that would have to be (it is, after all, a Friday evening), so let's just go with the previous figure. That means that we're looking at a speed on impact of 10.9 km/s, very near the escape speed of the Earth (as might be expected).

Except that, like a meteorite, you won't exactly get to keep all that energy kinetic until the impact. There's kind of an atmosphere in the way. Let me see, drag force...(surface area)*(v2)*(drag coefficient)...Uh. I think I'm forgetting something in that equation, but you get the idea. A lot of that energy will be dissipated into heat. If the projectile is small enough, it won't even hit the surface.

Flickerdart
2008-05-30, 10:58 PM
But Fire Elementals aren't bothered by lame things like "heat". Drop a bunch of elder ones from the Moon...out of a cannon...

Also, bundle them with Air Elementals so they have something to burn through while they're in space.

Dervag
2008-05-30, 11:00 PM
Just steal a space ship from the Illithids or the Neogi.Ah, but where do you think THEIR spaceships came from?

Somebody had to do this first...


That means that we're looking at a speed on impact of 10.9 km/s, very near the escape speed of the Earth (as might be expected).To clarify, the reason this would be expected is that escape speed is the minimum speed you'd have to have going up in order to keep coasting away from Earth forever and never fall back down, ignoring air resistance as you leap through the atmosphere.

A bit of math demonstrates that this is also precisely the speed an object would have if you dropped it from very far up. How far up, you ask?

All the way up. So up there is no counting how far up you are- infinitely far up.

As a practical matter, the Earth's gravity drops off with the square of the distance from the Earth, so by the time you get to where the moon is you are almost all the way up, and thus get almost the speed you'd get by dropping something from all the way up.

Griffin131
2008-05-30, 11:00 PM
Is there a SpellJammer 3.5 conversion? I'd love to find it.

Sir_Elderberry
2008-05-30, 11:01 PM
Wait, guys, I've got it. We just need to use some kind of magic to bring the moon down on everyone. I think there's a mask artifact or something for this. By my calculations, it would take three days. Not at all long enough for any adventurer to mount a resistance.

Flickerdart
2008-05-30, 11:03 PM
Wait, guys, I've got it. We just need to use some kind of magic to bring the moon down on everyone. I think there's a mask artifact or something for this. By my calculations, it would take three days. Not at all long enough for any adventurer to mount a resistance.
Wish, Reality Revision, Maximized Empowered Extended Disintegrate all take less than 3 days to cast.

Lorien077
2008-05-30, 11:19 PM
Hee hee. As stupid as this sounds that chain of thought has kind of inspired me to try to put together a high tech 3.5 bas4ed campaign setting for DnD in space.
The real work is in putting together rules for futuristic everything, making sure the current classes are still viable, and deciding all the flavor/ history/ etc. will work. Though it'd probably be stupid and nobody would play it anyway. >_<;;

Jayngfet
2008-05-30, 11:21 PM
Hee hee. As stupid as this sounds that chain of thought has kind of inspired me to try to put together a high tech 3.5 bas4ed campaign setting for DnD in space.
The real work is in putting together rules for futuristic everything, making sure the current classes are still viable, and deciding all the flavor/ history/ etc. will work. Though it'd probably be stupid and nobody would play it anyway. >_<;;

Make magic llightsabers do 1d10 damage, magic bastard swords 1d12, magic greatswords 2d8, The DMG has a list of futuristic devices.

FlyMolo
2008-05-30, 11:25 PM
Wish, Reality Revision, Maximized Empowered Extended Disintegrate all take less than 3 days to cast.

Extended disintegrate? Whut?

Chronos beats me with math. Only phi I ran into was a measure of inductance. Don't get the units for that, I'm afraid. mass squared over seconds squared? whut?

And unfortunately, you need escape velocity for the moon in order to hit earth. Which is 5324 mph. About 2.34 km/s. Damn fast. For comparison, it's 11.2 km/s at the surface of the earth. If I have the idea down here, if you launch a projectile from the moon to the earth, it'll get there at 11.2-2.34 km/s, plus initial velocity, which has to be 2.34 km/s just to reach earth anyway.

tyckspoon
2008-05-30, 11:32 PM
Wish, Reality Revision, Maximized Empowered Extended Disintegrate all take less than 3 days to cast.

Why would you bother with Maximize and Empower? Disintegrate always takes out 10 cubic feet of inanimate object, no variables involved. Extend likewise does absolutely nothing, as Disintegrate has no duration.. you could try to use Widen, but it doesn't actually qualify, or you could Enlarge it so you could fire it from farther away, but you're probably teleporting out to the moon to hit it anyway.

If you're gonna try disintegrating bits of it off, you want metamagics like Split Ray, Twin, and Repeating, things that get you more than one disintegration per cast. Personally I'd go and throw a bunch of Transmute Rock to Mud at it.. it'll make a mess of the atmosphere, but the mud should be much more likely to burn off on entry and the spell has a far, far greater area of effect.

Emperor Tippy
2008-05-31, 12:27 AM
Hee hee. As stupid as this sounds that chain of thought has kind of inspired me to try to put together a high tech 3.5 bas4ed campaign setting for DnD in space.
The real work is in putting together rules for futuristic everything, making sure the current classes are still viable, and deciding all the flavor/ history/ etc. will work. Though it'd probably be stupid and nobody would play it anyway. >_<;;

Already done it.

Spaceships are easy. Custom items of Greater Teleport for exploration and then permanent teleportation circles do get from explored planet to explored planet.

FlyMolo
2008-05-31, 12:42 AM
If you're gonna try disintegrating bits of it off, you want metamagics like Split Ray, Twin, and Repeating, things that get you more than one disintegration per cast. Personally I'd go and throw a bunch of Transmute Rock to Mud at it.. it'll make a mess of the atmosphere, but the mud should be much more likely to burn off on entry and the spell has a far, far greater area of effect.

Fabricate + Launch Bolt. Should work. Make colossal sized bolts.

Or better still, meta Launch Item until you can hit the moon with it. I dunno how, I don't think there's any change target meta out there. Epic spellcasting is what you're looking for, I think. Then Launch away the moon.

And really, even spamming Transmute Rock to Mud, even every round for three days? no effect. None at all. It'll bake on contact with the atmosphere anyway.

bosssmiley
2008-05-31, 03:39 AM
Spelljammer: Beyond the Moons (http://www.spelljammer.org/) - the £rd Ed Spelljammer fansite
and
Spelljammer: Beyond the Spider Moon (http://www.andycollins.net/Projects/Spelljammer/Spelljammer.htm) - supplemental material to the Polyhedron section of Dungeon #92.

Ah, the return of our beloved Grubbian physics (rule of cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool) > logic and/or gravity).

Sarastro
2008-05-31, 04:41 AM
Spelljammer: Beyond the Moons (http://www.spelljammer.org/) - the £rd Ed Spelljammer fansite
and
Spelljammer: Beyond the Spider Moon (http://www.andycollins.net/Projects/Spelljammer/Spelljammer.htm) - supplemental material to the Polyhedron section of Dungeon #92.

Ah, the return of our beloved Grubbian physics (rule of cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool) > logic and/or gravity).
I was just going to say. Spelljammer does the whole wizards and space bit very well. As for dwarves in space, there were Imperial space dwarves in earlier editions of Warhammer 40k. I've been kicking around the idea of doing a fantasy campaign of some sort involving traveling between celestial spheres and what not.

Neftren
2008-05-31, 08:35 AM
Anyone interested in playing a campaign to find out whether this is actually feasible? I just got an interesting new campaign idea with which to run in 3.5e... I'll go do some more official storyboard planning if anyone is interested in playing a game of this type.

I have decided I will be running this game. Who is interested in playing? I need a number of players to determine what level we'll be going at.

Greg
2008-05-31, 10:31 AM
As for dwarves in space, there were Imperial space dwarves in earlier editions of Warhammer 40k.
Squats, I believe.

Lord_Asmodeus
2008-05-31, 10:34 AM
Indeed, but Squats got canned when 40k started to move out of the "warhammer in space" phase. And by "canned" I mean their homeworld was devoured by the Nids. It would be interesting to see Squat DNA utilized by the Nids.

Flickerdart
2008-05-31, 10:37 AM
Why would you bother with Maximize and Empower? Disintegrate always takes out 10 cubic feet of inanimate object, no variables involved. Extend likewise does absolutely nothing, as Disintegrate has no duration.. you could try to use Widen, but it doesn't actually qualify, or you could Enlarge it so you could fire it from farther away, but you're probably teleporting out to the moon to hit it anyway.

If you're gonna try disintegrating bits of it off, you want metamagics like Split Ray, Twin, and Repeating, things that get you more than one disintegration per cast. Personally I'd go and throw a bunch of Transmute Rock to Mud at it.. it'll make a mess of the atmosphere, but the mud should be much more likely to burn off on entry and the spell has a far, far greater area of effect.
Well, sorry that I'm not a master of D&D. Wish and Reality Revision should work fine, though.

bosssmiley
2008-05-31, 10:41 AM
Squats, I believe.

Now retconned into the (as yet unseen) Demiurg race mentioned in "Battlefleet Gothic" and "Codex: Tau Empire" IIRC.

Scuttlebutt has it that they (the Demiurg) were one of the races that didn't make the cut when GW had the internal brainstorming session that resulted in the Tau army. Seeing as the Tau fit the dwarf/squat tactical model (kit up in armoured suits, then dig in and shoot/shell the bejaysus out of the enemy) I can see it. :smallamused:

/WH40K geekery

Chronos
2008-05-31, 10:54 AM
Chronos beats me with math. Only phi I ran into was a measure of inductance. Don't get the units for that, I'm afraid. mass squared over seconds squared? whut?Phi is one of the standard symbols used for the potential of a field. I could also have used V (like for voltage, which is also a potential), but I figured that would just be confusing. And the units aren't mass squared over seconds squared, they're meters squared over seconds squared. So if you have an object at a point, you can multiply the object's mass by the potential at the point, and get the potential energy of the object.

seedjar
2008-05-31, 12:54 PM
If the PCs in my Eberron game try this, I think I'll allude to the possibility that Eb and the other planes are all some artifact-level snowglobe or orrery or something. It's cheesy, for sure, but I feel like the fluff just begs it.
Generally speaking, I like Xefas' solution. Also this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dddm5bQeKvg) A lot of portals to the astral plane and perhaps Sigil. Near their starting point, probably some splinter groups from adventurers that came before the PCs. In keeping with the Cthulu theme you could explain gods and angels and such (the degree of sci-fi in your explanation is up to you, they could just be super-tough deep-space aasimar or whatever.) I like the story potential of the "miraculous" gains of magic in the known realms coming at the expense of some distant world. And it would be cool to throw down Athas from the Dark Sun campaign. (I'd really like to do a time-traveling pastiché to Chrono Trigger with Dark Sun's material.)
~Joe

Wabbajack
2008-05-31, 01:28 PM
Wait, guys, I've got it. We just need to use some kind of magic to bring the moon down on everyone. I think there's a mask artifact or something for this. By my calculations, it would take three days. Not at all long enough for any adventurer to mount a resistance.

Everything we need to stop it is a green elf kid with a magical flute^^

TheGeek
2008-05-31, 07:30 PM
I'm interested in this game, it sounds cool!

Having been brought up on Star Trek, I can't resist a chance to demonstrate my nerdiness.

Jayngfet
2008-05-31, 08:02 PM
I'm trying to think of the spells needed to do minimum space travel, the list is extensive, but that's hardly surprising.

Permanency

Water breathing(or is there a spell that stops breathing entirley?)

haste

Fly

Hold portal(air lock)

Knock(open air lock)

Comprehend languages(odds are we wont get many common speaking twi'leks)

Tounges(see above)

Scrying, greater(both ways for communication, normal scrying if exploration is needed)


There any spells we can use to make a spaceship girl or living ship (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LivingShip)(Though we may be pushing it with magic AI's and such, the spaceship itself might be a bit too), if so a bunch of stat affecting spells for her(or him, depending on taste).

I'll work out space suits in a bit, and check for new spells.

turkishproverb
2008-05-31, 08:14 PM
Squats, I believe.

Yea, you get banned from the Games workshop boards for mentioning them.

mabriss lethe
2008-05-31, 10:46 PM
I'm trying to think of the spells needed to do minimum space travel, the list is extensive, but that's hardly surprising.

Sepia Snake Sigil for long term hibernation... or Shadow Conjuration mimicking S3 if you don't want to have expensive material components involved.

On a related note, Shadow Walk would make for a very interesting version of hyperspace-ish whatever.

Jayngfet
2008-06-01, 07:08 PM
Sepia Snake Sigil for long term hibernation... or Shadow Conjuration mimicking S3 if you don't want to have expensive material components involved.

On a related note, Shadow Walk would make for a very interesting version of hyperspace-ish whatever.

Hyperspace, We may have to watch out for undead space whales:smallbiggrin:.