I have irrefutable proof as to V's gender! And I'm serious!

[Beholder1995]

As loathe as I am to start another one of these threads, I have come to a conclusion about the V's gender debate: his eyes.

The males in OotS world have their eyes drawn more near the forhead, while the female characters have their eyes drawn more in the middle of their face. It is also known that The Giant does have a determined gender for V, and just teases us with the fact that we don't know. But why would he make V female and draw him as a male? Because in the beginning of the strip, V wasn't androgynous.

Thus, V is male.

[drengnikrafe]

V was, according to what I hear, originally planned to be male, sure. However, to simply change how a character was drawn to something more androgynous would cause an uproar to the people who noticed, and spread quickly, causing masses of complaints to Rich for his change in drawing without a valid reason.
If you're going back to the "V was originally male, and thus still is male", then take into account that Miko was originally planned to be Roy's perfect mate. Do you see how that turned out?

[evisiron]

Unless, of course, a different art style is being used due to being an Elf.

[Spiryt]

I must be blind, as I can't see any meaningful difference. In every strip (at least in first strips) eyes are slighty different, not to mention different facial expresions.

[Lycan 01]

Unless, of course, a different art style is being used due to being an Elf.

Loophole #1 for The Giant to use... :smalltongue: I'm sure there are about 4 others that can easily destroy EVERY theory.

[teratorn]

As loathe as I am to start another one of these threads, I have come to a conclusion about the V's gender debate: his eyes.

The males in OotS world have their eyes drawn more near the forhead, while the female characters have their eyes drawn more in the middle of their face.

You're not the first. This has been "discovered" 100s of times in this forum. Besides:


Originally Posted by The Giant

You don't know that. You are only drawing that conclusion based on previous examples. For all you know, I deliberately decided to create a sexually-ambiguous elf; in such a circumstance, I would clearly break my own "rules" on how I drew them. :P

[Kato]

First on topic: I don't really see any difference between males or females, sorry. And I do not think Rich'd make it this easy... I might be blind, but I really don't see a mimic independent difference in the eye distance.

so, some off topic:

If you're going back to the "V was originally male, and thus still is male", then take into account that Miko was originally planned to be Roy's perfect mate. Do you see how that turned out?

Miko was never ever planned to be Roy's perfect mate. That's not a theory, it's a fact. In the thread 'Rich is wrong' (or something alike) the discussion came up and Rich himself said, Roy's attraction was simply a mean to introduce her. Please go and read for yourself ^^ Not meant offensive, just fyi.

[Beholder1995]

I must be blind, as I can't see any meaningful difference. In every strip (at least in first strips) eyes are slighty different, not to mention different facial expresions.

Look carefully at Roy before he puts on the Gender-changing belt. Then look at him after. His eyes did shift. And if you're saying that there's no difference between the eyes at the beginning of the strip, why would Rich give V a male set of eyes afterwards?

[drengnikrafe]

Miko was never ever planned to be Roy's perfect mate. That's not a theory, it's a fact. In the thread 'Rich is wrong' (or something alike) the discussion came up and Rich himself said, Roy's attraction was simply a mean to introduce her. Please go and read for yourself ^^ Not meant offensive, just fyi.

Really? Maybe I should put less stock in the theories I hear...

[lord of kobolds]

Look carefully at Roy before he puts on the Gender-changing belt. Then look at him after. His eyes did shift. And if you're saying that there's no difference between the eyes at the beginning of the strip, why would Rich give V a male set of eyes afterwards?

Again, Elf.
It says in the PH and the MM that elves' eyes are different. There is even a drawing in the PH which shows elf eyes, human eyes, and half elf eyes.

[bobothegoat]

I think I remember a thread pointing this out from a long time ago, and I seem to remember that the conclusion actually ended up being that the eyes are usually somewhere between male and female eyes.

Outrageously crude MSPaint illustration to try to show my point:
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o206/bobo2788/eyes.png
(heads copied and pasted next to each other from the first panel of the second comic. blue lines are elan, red lines are v, and pinkish lines are haley.)

[Kato]

@Dregnikrafe
Hehe... I know. Best are people shutting around theories and saying they are completely true and proved ^^' Those people are a pain in the ass.
Just to show I'm none of them on that page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80556&page=3) about the beginning of the last third is Rich's comment on Miko.


About the eyes... I'm not completely convinced... It might be just a matter of perspective and looks due to the wig. e.g. I can't really see a difference between Haley and V in any panel... sorry.

[teratorn]

About the eyes... I'm not completely convinced... It might be just a matter of perspective and looks due to the wig. e.g. I can't really see a difference between Haley and V in any panel... sorry.

Check the threads in the Arts and Crafts on how to make avatars. This is something that is "standard knowledge" in the OOTS drawing community. I't's best seen when their mouths are shut.

[Beholder1995]

Again, Elf.
It says in the PH and the MM that elves' eyes are different. There is even a drawing in the PH which shows elf eyes, human eyes, and half elf eyes.

Oh, come on. They're stick figures. Dwarves don't have any squarer heads, and halfling heads aren't any more elongated.

[Kurald Galain]

take into account that Miko was originally planned to be Roy's perfect mate. Do you see how that turned out?

What is the source on that, is it in NCFTPB?

[Turcano]

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/6616/worfnotagaintk3.gif

Seriously, you knew better than to start another one of these threads and did it anyway? For shame.

[Yendor]

Not only are V's eyes lower than Elan's, Elan's eyes are lower than Roy's.

There. I proved Elan is really a woman. I'm so clever.

[Jahkaivah]

Oh, come on. They're stick figures. Dwarves don't have any squarer heads, and halfling heads aren't any more elongated.

Your clutching at straws, you stated that Rich gave his stick figures enough detail to determine gender by their eyes, why not give them enough detail to determine race by their eyes, heck the eyes could just be argued result of the androgyny.

I might be wrong on this but wasn't it revealed that when Rich intended V to be male when he drew her (I refer to her as female as thats what I assumed her gender was until the androgyny joke was revealed), but when he realised he accidently made a androgynous charcter he decided to cloud her gender.

Bottom line: He has a infinite source of excuses and loopholes he could use, heck he could have V say in the next strip "Im a girl" and still come up with some silly excuse (girl could be elvish or something)

"Could Rich reveal Vs gender in the next strip and proove me wrong without making the world implode?" if the answer is yes you don't have proof.

[Selene]

What is the source on that, is it in NCFTPB?

It's in people's imaginations. See the Giant's Post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4390407&postcount=76) on the issue.

Partial quote from said post:


OK, so let's clear something up: This mythological notion that Miko was originally intended to be the indefinite romantic interest for Roy is pure fantasy and unfounded speculation. Everything from the point where Miko drags the Order to Azure City in chains in #251 is more-or-less exactly what was always going to happen, with only some tone changed.

[Laurentio]

TEDIUS.

You know, I'm missing the Organ Harvesting. And I'm one that think of Vaarsuvius as male.
I can understand a newbie, even a noob, but from a "Dwarf in the Playground", it's quite disturbing. This "proof" is old, discredited, not conclusive and not even interesting.

Laurentio

[Trazoi]

Check the threads in the Arts and Crafts on how to make avatars. This is something that is "standard knowledge" in the OOTS drawing community. I't's best seen when their mouths are shut.
That's something I found out by trial and error when making my Inkscape tutorial. When I converted my male avatar to female just by altering the body it looked wrong for ages until I noticed the difference in the eyes and had to go back and change it.

There's a page in my tutorial (http://www.trazoi.net/tutorials/inkscape/oots/female.html) that details the differences as I saw it.

[Beholder1995]

TEDIUS.

You know, I'm missing the Organ Harvesting. And I'm one that think of Vaarsuvius as male.
I can understand a newbie, even a noob, but from a "Dwarf in the Playground", it's quite disturbing. This "proof" is old, discredited, not conclusive and not even interesting.

Laurentio

You realize that this thread was nearly dead, and that you just bumped it back to the top? Your post was rather unneeded, and is barely different from the Organ Harvesting you apparently dearly miss. Also, I apologize for my somewhat overkill title and the fact that I haven't read every last post about V's gender. Happy?!? Looking it over, I do find this thread embarrasing. One can, however, be a Dwarf and only have been on the forums a couple weeks. And on top of that, I never lurked, so again I apolozige for my apparenly worthless thread. A thread that, again, you bumped back to the top. :smallannoyed:





Thank you for letting me rant. :smallsmile:

[Beholder1995]

And just how has this theory been debunked other than by saying: "Well, V's an Elf, so his eyes could mean either male or female" or "well, The Giant can make V whatever gender he wants so there's no point in arguing". True, Mr. Burlew does have complete power over what gender his characters are, but under that same logic Elan could be female and Haley could be male. How is this theory of mine (and others, apparently) as utterly wrong as it's made out to be? True, all theory's about V could be ended by saying he's neither male or female, he's androgynous, but let's skip over that.

And one last thing: If V was originally male, why wouldn't he still be male?

[Shatteredtower]

And one last thing: If V was originally male, why wouldn't he still be male?Actually, we don't know that V was originally male. Intended to be, maybe, but we know it about as much as we know the status of Schroedinger's cat before the box is opened.

Though it is true that a beholder does know V's gender -- within a guest comic, anyway. :smallamused:

[Arkenputtyknife]

And just how has this theory been debunked other than by saying: "Well, V's an Elf, so his eyes could mean either male or female" or "well, The Giant can make V whatever gender he wants so there's no point in arguing". True, Mr. Burlew does have complete power over what gender his characters are, but under that same logic Elan could be female and Haley could be male.
Yes, they could — were it not for the fact that throughout the comic they have been consistently shown to be male and female, respectively, in all ways. It's the consistency over many details that proves (or rather, establishes to a very high degree of certainty) the case.


How is this theory of mine (and others, apparently) as utterly wrong as it's made out to be? True, all theory's about V could be ended by saying he's neither male or female, he's androgynous, but let's skip over that.
The hypothesis that V is male isn't wrong; it's unprovable. It's no more "irrefutable" than the numerous "V is female" theories. What's wrong is claiming that the hypothesis is proven based on a single small detail, when there is just as much contrary evidence. We have consistent evidence for Elan's and Hayley's genders; we have no such consistency for V, which makes theories like this worthless.

As far as I can tell, the Giant has gone (and continues to go) out of his way to ambiguate V's gender as a running joke. Right now he's probably either rolling his eyes or laughing his boop off over this latest theory. Theorizing about V's gender is therefore nothing more than a quick and reliable way to make an ass of yourself.


And one last thing: If V was originally male, why wouldn't he still be male?
Because V was originally male only in the Giant's mind, not in the comic, and the Giant's mind can be changed at the Giant's whim. For all we know, he's now decided that V is going to be female, or androgynous, or some kind of previously unheard-of gender. Or maybe he's decided not to decide. We'll never know unless the Giant chooses to show us; in the meantime, theorizing on this subject is a waste of everyone's time.