GitP Prestige Class Contest Chat Thread

[dman11235]

Welcome to the Giant in the Playground Prestige Class Contest chat thread where you can ask questions, comment, or just in general discuss about the submissions to this competition.

The current contest is...

Bow down to my Fist! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101782)

Past contests:
It's Elementary! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98294)
The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95505)
Champion of the Common Man (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92606)
My Faith is Unswerving (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89760)
We Band of Brothers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86443)
Soul Power! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84454&highlight=Contest)
Test My Sword, Meet Your End (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81990&highlight=Contest)

[Mr_Dave]

Hey, is it ok if I submit a character?
Its the first time I've made one so I don't know if it'll be very good, but its worth a shot

[Lady Tialait]

I'm still working on the details of mine...Tweaking the mechanic...playtesting it...all that jazz...this is fun!

[dman11235]

Of course you can submit one! that's the whole idea here, you submit a PrC to the contest.

[Edge]

Hmm... would a frontline tactician qualify as weapon-focused enough for this contest?

[dman11235]

Depends, do you focus on using a sword? So the answer is a "maybe". If you are a front line tactician that focuses on swordplay, then yes. If not, then you might want to wait for one of the next ones (a contest every month!)

[Edge]

The class focuses primarily on tactics rather than swordplay. Seems like I'll have to wait.

[BisectedBrioche]

What's the deadline?

[Zeta Kai]

What's the deadline?

Let DMan himself tell you (forgive the pun):


The contest begins with the posting of this thread and will run through midnight of June 20th.

[Vavaara]

I WONDERED where this contest went...

[Vavaara]

So, any word what the theme of the next contest is going to be? I have PrC that i'm dying to enter, but it won't fit this month's theme...

[dman11235]

I'm not sure I should reveal that. It would give an unfair advantage. Though who knows? It might be the right style.

[Lady Tialait]

Save the re veiling till the next contest, i'm still working on mine for thsi contest...please anyway. I don't want to add more to my plate...

[JGPyre]

Before I submit the class that I've drawn up, I just wanted to ask...

A person who seeks to excel on the battlefield in D&D, not too different from medieval Europe, will usually use a sword, correct?

I ask because the prestige class I've made, Battlepith Soldier, should be able to work just fine for characters wielding greatswords, greataxes, or even longspears, glaives, and halberds. But greatswords are definitely what most of us would think when looking at the flavor of the class.

Thanks,
-JP

Edit: well I got ambitious and just made and posted the class anyway. So feel free to judge it swordy enough or not at your discretion. I kinda like it, though.

[JGPyre]

Also, Dman... thanks for the sweet profile links.

I've been going over the Fighter Variant that Seerow uses and am totally captivated.

Although I feel like there's a bit too much in his build, the Styles and Stances may be exactly what I'm looking for in my fighters. In fact it builds well on the feeling of fighters that I usually see around.

Also: For my class that I submitted, they gain Combat Expertise at 1st level for two reasons. The first is that it's a trick that makes sense they would pick up from fighting multiple opponents simultaneously, especially those with low AC. But just as importantly, and more esoterically, Combat Expertise is a requirement to take a Fighting Style in my setting. Gaining CE as a bonus feat allows characters who may not have the study skills (Read: intelligence) to devote themselves to a fighting style to still pick one up through constant conflict.

Should I simply post rules for fighting styles and how they work in my variant (roughly adapted from Quintessential Fighter but with a bit of homebrew and I imagine soon to be a twist of Tome of Battle), or should I link to it?

PS: I also really like Seerow's little ability that lets the fighter add 1/2 his level to a stat to determine feat prereqs, because that's another great way for my fighters to get CE, they just have to wait a bit longer... it's perfect!

-JP

[dman11235]

Curse the lack of multi-quote!


Before I submit the class that I've drawn up, I just wanted to ask...

A person who seeks to excel on the battlefield in D&D, not too different from medieval Europe, will usually use a sword, correct?

Well, a person who seeks to excel on the battlefield can do so many a way, especially in fantasy with magic. This contest is specifically designed for sword masters though. So long, great, bastard, short...falchion even. Or just general to sword.


I ask because the prestige class I've made, Battlepith Soldier, should be able to work just fine for characters wielding greatswords, greataxes, or even longspears, glaives, and halberds. But greatswords are definitely what most of us would think when looking at the flavor of the class.

The contest is for sword masters, so it's a little more specific than that, though you might try your luck since "sword" is a pretty general term.


Also, Dman... thanks for the sweet profile links.

I've been going over the Fighter Variant that Seerow uses and am totally captivated.

...what? Linked...in my profile? I don't recall linking any fighter fixes in my profile...I'm confused?


Also: For my class that I submitted, they gain Combat Expertise at 1st level for two reasons. The first is that it's a trick that makes sense they would pick up from fighting multiple opponents simultaneously, especially those with low AC. But just as importantly, and more esoterically, Combat Expertise is a requirement to take a Fighting Style in my setting. Gaining CE as a bonus feat allows characters who may not have the study skills (Read: intelligence) to devote themselves to a fighting style to still pick one up through constant conflict.

Should I simply post rules for fighting styles and how they work in my variant (roughly adapted from Quintessential Fighter but with a bit of homebrew and I imagine soon to be a twist of Tome of Battle), or should I link to it?

I am using 3.5 rules for this, no exceptions. If you add it as a class feature, then I wouldn't be able to stop you. But note that it would be restricted to that class only. Also, why should I care if you give them a bonus feat at 1st level? It's your class, you're making it. It's part of the design. It will be judge by your peers.

Also, I don't think I've ever even seen Seerow's fighter variant, I tend to stay away from fixes. Still confused.

[JGPyre]

Hmm.. **** you're right. I thought that I found it through that "haversack" link in your sig. Must have gotten to it some other way. Strange that I can't remember at all how I found it. I think it must have been through some of the "How to create a good class" links at the top of the contest. Meh, doesn't matter anymore.. sorry for the confusion.

In any case, the clarification about 3.5 is certainly relevant. The reason that I brought up the bonus feat is that it only truly makes thematic sense with the class if I include the information on Fighting Styles. However, since I don't use them as a class feature, they will have to be left out of this build.

I think the class should still hold up well enough to scrutiny, though, even in a somewhat incomplete form. (winning, of course, is another matter entirely.)

[dman11235]

You should include flavor with your class, and if the feat makes sense for the flavor, then all is good. If the feat doesn't make sense for the flavor, then it shouldn't be there, even with your combat style thing, as it sounds like those are extra-class abilities. Take this as advice for your non-contest PrC as well. Don't have things that don't make sense.

[JGPyre]

You should include flavor with your class, and if the feat makes sense for the flavor, then all is good. If the feat doesn't make sense for the flavor, then it shouldn't be there, even with your combat style thing, as it sounds like those are extra-class abilities. Take this as advice for your non-contest PrC as well. Don't have things that don't make sense.

I'm certainly well aware of this dogma. The concept that I was trying to get across (perhaps poorly worded) was that the class ability only makes sense in the context of my homebrew variant (hence the decision to cut it in this contest but also justifying its presence in my original).

In regard to extra-class abilities, I believe that they can add an incredible amount of spice or sweetness to a class. I use this Fighting Style variant that allows martial characters some additional abilities. The reason that Fighting Styles are an extra-class ability is that they are something that characters of many different paths (Ranger, Paladin, Fighter, various PrCs) can and will take, so instead of making a variant for every martial class, it became considerably easier and made more sense to me to make the system extra-class. Point being: just because it's not ingrained into the class stat block doesn't mean that it's not an important part of what the class is in the setting I've crafted.

That said, again I appreciate your clarification to me concerning the contest. I'm sorry for causing the initial confusion, because I thought you were aware of this fighter variant that has some elements of Fighting Styles... so my post made that assumption and looking at it without that is quite nonsensical.


On a separate note: I was thinking about a good way to evaluate the entries. Depending on how many we have submitted, I was thinking that a reviewing process might be in order.

In science when you submit a grant for approval, at the big roundtable where everyone votes, two people have been assigned to each grant, and provide some background, a review, and their careful judgement on it, with 1.0 being the best and 5.0 being the worst.

Perhaps the atomosphere here is constructive enough that each participant (or perhaps just those that volunteer) could be assigned to review like 2 of the PrCs before the voting begins, so that a summary of what the class is and some of the elegant points about it (from the allegedly enlightened ranks of the creators/entrants) to assist voters in their decisions.

Just a thought


Peace.

[Malachite]

I like the flavour of the Hulking Blade (and the others too), but the Crushing Attack 8th level ability needs to be altered, else the Shock Trooper feat turns it into an infinite damage attack. Admittedly with your infinitely low AC you'll be hit by pretty much every attack aimed your way, but if your blow connects then it's game over for the opponent.

[Eurus]

Oog, I finally finished by submission. I'm not sure why I did so, though... That was far too much work. X_X Ah well, at least it's done.

[Lady Tialait]

I think mine is done, i'll be tweaking it till the deadline. But I belive it is done.

Eurus, yours is sooooo being swagged for my swashbuckling campaign...

[Eurus]

Well, I'm happy someone is getting some use out of it. ^_^

Anyway, I wanted to inquire as to the status of the Swordforged submission. It seems to be decidedly unfinished, but it's listed in the voting thread. Does that mean people can still vote for it, then?

[dman11235]

If it's unfinished, it's DQ'd. I haven't actually looked at many of the submissions yet, I'm working on that now. I sort of just blindly put all of the submissions in there (I actually almost put that one non-PrC post in there, post 5 or so).

[Eurus]

Heh, makes sense. Anyway, I was just checking, so thanks for the clear-up.

[Lady Tialait]

So how long will the voting be going on?

[Eurus]

I believe he said it closes July 1st, so plenty of time for lots of votes. You hear me, people? Get out there and vote! For me! :smallbiggrin:

[Lady Tialait]

Looks like noble blade is gunna win. Unless some last minet votes get in on this. Oh well...YAAAY..or somesuch.

[Eurus]

Wow, that was a big jump. Dang, that's like three votes for the Spirit Champion since the last time I logged on! XD

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Wow, awesome. I have friends in nerdy places it seems.

[Lady Tialait]

*sniffle* Looks like teh Mystic Sword got not-a-one-vote...sad...

[Eurus]

I admit to feeling a combination of pride at having gotten a lot of positive feedback and votes, and disappointment at losing in the end. But, that's how we learn, huh? ^_^ Congratulations, Krimm!

[Lady Tialait]

I feel kinda bad..I lost...badly..not a single vote for my poor mystic sword ....*crys*

[Guyr Adamantine]

*Gives a robot hug to Tialait.*

[Eurus]

Shame I'm not familiar with Incarnum... Ah well, I guess I'm skipping this one.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I'm coming up with something as we speak, just milling around ideas in my head for class features...

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Submitted the Taker of the Damned PrC, just need to tack on more at the end.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Will the deadline be extended due to the forum downtime? Because I just found this contest, but I doubt I can whip something decent up in just a day...

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Will the deadline be extended due to the forum downtime? Because I just found this contest, but I doubt I can whip something decent up in just a day...

Looks like it has been. I can't wait to see the new submissions. :biggrin:

[DracoDei]

The Demented One's submission maybe doesn't quite fit the feel of a world where ressurrection is common... OTOH losing a HD isn't anything to sneeze at. I guess I am saying that an addendum about always having contingency plans to make sure you are returned to life if you die (except if you willingly become an undead of course...) might be appropriate for the first rule of the code.

[The Demented One]

The Demented One's submission maybe doesn't quite fit the feel of a world where ressurrection is common... OTOH losing a HD isn't anything to sneeze at. I guess I am saying that an addendum about always having contingency plans to make sure you are returned to life if you die (except if you willingly become an undead of course...) might be appropriate for the first rule of the code.
I think a contingency plan addendum would be appropriate.

[Guyr Adamantine]

:smallannoyed:

The "no magic" rules is annoying...

For once, I had an awesome idea with psionics and all, but it would be illegal.

Curse you, Dan Green! (Dman11235!)

[The Demented One]

:smallannoyed:

The "no magic" rules is annoying...

For once, I had an awesome idea with psionics and all, but it would be illegal.

Curse you, Dan Green! (Dman11235!)
I think you could still do a psionic-using class as long as all the class features were extraordinaries. Am I right on that?

[Guyr Adamantine]

I might have another idea though...

Some kind of Sentai member class.

More to come!

[dman11235]

You could, but it wouldn't exactly be psionic anymore now, would it?

[Guyr Adamantine]

You could, but it wouldn't exactly be psionic anymore now, would it?

What I'm on is a Sentai (Think Power Rangers, Captain Planet, etc) PrC aimed to bards. It will continue their spellcasting progression, but won't be focused on it.

[Lord Iames Osari]

We Band of Brothers



We few, we happy few...

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/

The contest begins with the posting of this thread and will run through midnight of August 31

Soon after a poll will be opened for everyone to vote for their favorite that will last until midnight of the last day of the month.

Rules

1) You will be creating an 'original' prestige class. Your class will be a master of small conflict tactics, tactical movement, and tactical buffing, as the Marshal, Crusader, and Warblade do for base classes. This cannot be a magical ability, like the bard, it must be mundane. (Emphasis added)

As I understand the D&D rules, extraordinary abilities, although not magical, are also... more than mundane. Are extraordinary abilities banned, or jst spell-like, psi-like, and supernatural ones?

[dman11235]

Mundane in D&D means non-magical. That means no magic, psionics, incarnum, ToM, etc., but (ex) is perfectly fine. I mean, it's what animals get after all.

I won't disqualify it for having a (su) or two, but casting is right out (sorry Guyr! You'll have an option for something like that soon (eventually)). It must focus on using mundane means to buff/BC/etc. All the while being a leader based PrC.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Okay. I'll keep that in mind.

[Guyr Adamantine]

*Checks Bardic Music abilities*

Don't tell me every single ****** of them is supernatural or spell-like?

...
....
.....

I'll be weeping in a corner now, thank you.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Eeehhh... I think I'll sit this one out.

[dman11235]

You will note Guyr that I did actually call out the Bard as something that would not work for this...

[Guyr Adamantine]

You will note Guyr that I did actually call out the Bard as something that would not work for this...

I only realised it later. I guess I'll wait for the next competition... again.

[dman11235]

My next contest will actually have a magical flair to it, maybe then? And for the record, it's been planned for two months now the contests for last month, this month, and the next...3 months, I'm not just doing this for you.

[Guyr Adamantine]

My next contest will actually have a magical flair to it, maybe then? And for the record, it's been planned for two months now the contests for last month, this month, and the next...3 months, I'm not just doing this for you.

Pfeh! We all know you're here to get me!

No bad feelings here!:smalltongue:

[dman11235]

Didn't want to be accused of favoritism. Though I do want to see this PrC. You've been holding it since the first one, right?

[Guyr Adamantine]

Didn't want to be accused of favoritism. Though I do want to see this PrC. You've been holding it since the first one, right?

Not at all! I prefer spontaneous creation, you see. It was just the most interesting (Read: Stupidest) idea that came during my inner brainstorm.

I'll probably bring it to the boards nonetheless... :smallwink:

[Faithless]

Will submit a prc for the band of brothers.

[Lord Iames Osari]

I have another question. Would be alright if I altered one of my previously-created PrCs to enter into the contest?

I'm thinking of the Ranged Tactician, here. I have some thoughts on a 10-level version, but since it would be based on a previous creation of mine, I thought I'd ask.

[dman11235]

As long as it's your own work, I really don't care. And think about it: would I have known it wasn't new if you hadn't told me?

[Lord Iames Osari]

*shrug* And I see I was getting confused with the Monster contest. This one doesn't have a "new content" rule. Excellent.

[Stycotl]

As long as it's your own work, I really don't care. And think about it: would I have known it wasn't new if you hadn't told me?

it would depend on how closely you decide to read his signature.

[dman11235]

If you have a PrC that's been made before, but hasn't been recognized, this contest could be a way to get it recognized. I feel that's a good thing. Gets the good homebrews out there. And since this contest hasn't been around as long as the monster one, people are more likely to have made PrCs and not have anything left in them for that specific contest. This allows more good entries into it, making for a better contest. As long as you don't abuse it.

[Stycotl]

Allaidhar
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4684303#post4684303

Edit:
-capstone ability good enough?
-stance good enough?
-fluff text understandable?
-warrior’s path and fury clear enough?
-stackable bonuses to ability scores are not much in and of themselves, but too much if combined with barbarian, or another rage-similar class?
-anything else?
-still looking for a good illustration. if anyone has one in mind, i'd consider it.

aaron out.

[Lord Iames Osari]

There, I've finished the Ranged Tactician (10-level version).

[Lappy9000]

I must say, the Evil Overlord is one of the most awesomenest things I've seen in a long time :smallbiggrin:

[Eurus]

I quite agree. I think I'm going to try to submit one again myself, but I think I'll probably still end up voting for the Overlord. :smallbiggrin:

[dman11235]

So...it's been brought to my attention that I made a typo on the deadline date. It should have been last night at midnight, but I typed '31st' instead of '21st' This is a cross-post of that thread, did anyone not get to enter because of that typo? As in, did anyone plan to enter after yesterday, but before the 31st?

[Jaerc]

I did and if possible still do.

[dman11235]

When can you get it up by? I'd like to start back on track ASAP (this actually goes back to when the boards crashed for 10 days, we're still a bit off-schedule).

[Jaerc]

It will be done tonight. But I can understand if you'd rather I not hold things back.

[dman11235]

It's open until tonight then.

[Jaerc]

Sorry about my lack of as promised posting and thus the effect hanging things up. I unexpectedly lost Internet. Obviously it's back.

[Icewalker]

Wow, unswerving religion PrC contest thread...

I'm gonna have to go throw some flavor and a little fixing back on my old Zealot class. Hoorah cleansing fire!

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I've already got a couple PrC's I can put into this...


:biggrin:

[Guyr Adamantine]

Ah come on! Where is the fun in putting an old PrC?

I call dibs on this six armed gentleman. :smallbiggrin:

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff62/GuyrAdamantine/Hex-Heir_p74.jpg

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Ah come on! Where is the fun in putting an old PrC?

Ahha... who said it's one I've shown to anyone else before? It'll be new to everyone but me.:smallbiggrin:

[ErrantX]

Hmmm... question on the new contest:

Assuming that you're familiar with Eberron to a moderate extent, how would you feel about an entry based on the Valenar elves and their ancestor worship of the heroes of their past?

-X

[dman11235]

I will answer your question with a question: are they deities? That's the requirement.

[ErrantX]

Technically one's shoe in Eberron could be a deity, but that's not the point. Take a look at this Dragonshard article and let me know.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041004a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041011a

Specifically, look at the 2nd article as it has something on Valenar religion known as the Spirits of the Past, and it's followers are known as the Keepers of the Past.

Or... for this competition would you prefer something less setting specific?

-X

[Zak Crimsonleaf]

I'm interested. The last two contests were a little out of my league (I dislike psionics and don't quite understand Incarnum), but this one looks promising. I think I'll put in a Cleansing Wind of Akadi, the goddess of elemental air. They ought to have some neat abilities. Or if nothing else, the name sounds cool, I thought.

[dman11235]

Technically one's shoe in Eberron could be a deity, but that's not the point. Take a look at this Dragonshard article and let me know.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041004a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041011a

Specifically, look at the 2nd article as it has something on Valenar religion known as the Spirits of the Past, and it's followers are known as the Keepers of the Past.

Or... for this competition would you prefer something less setting specific?

-X

I'm not a big fan of settings (I like to have home-brewed ones: more fun), so I'm not familiar with the workings of Eberron. I do know that in Eberron, the only requirement for deity-hood is being worshiped, right? And these elves are worshiped? So then they meet the requirements. I think I know where you're going though....the elves that guide the younger generation give you actual bonuses? Or Keepers of the Pst? Should be fine. As long as it focuses on revering a deity, using any sense of the word.

[Owrtho]

Could it be a theoretical deityish thing with a likely small cult of believers and an even smaller group of the truely devout?

More specificly could it be the overpowing belief in a suposed void outside of which nothing exists and inside wich nothing exists meaning all existance is infact an illusion (according to those who believe this)?

Owrtho

[dman11235]

The purpose of this contest is to get something like Radiant Servant of Pelor, RKV, etc, so that should be fine, as long as it's a deity to them.

[Owrtho]

Well I put up a basic version of a prc I came up with. Still probly needs some work though. Any tips would be welcome. Anyways, I always thought it would be fun to have a class that could so completly denie reality it actualy worked for them.

Owrtho

[Xallace]

I have entered The Eternal Explorer of Fharhg... Fharlo... The Walking Dude.
May need some tweaking, it's off the top of my head.

[Zak Crimsonleaf]

Added the Windwarrior of Akadi. I don't have much experience at prestige class design, so I imagine it will need some serious modification. But I did come up with a few interesting abilities.

[Thurbane]

When does the current comp close? I'd like to enter, but I need a little time to finish off my PrC.

[dman11235]

Should be answered in the first few lines of the contest.

[Icewalker]

Well, as there's still 2 weeks, I'll try to get around to adding fluff to my Zealot. I think it was pretty much all crunch when I posted it.

[Thurbane]

Should be answered in the first few lines of the contest.
Indeed it is...I should have adjusted my bifocals. :smallredface:

[Voodzik]

Does the DIETY have to be yours/DnD? 'cus I have a pretty sweet idea for a PrC using "The Drowned God" from George RR Martin's "Song of Ice and Fire," but if non original/dnd verse gods are a no-go then I'll sit on it for now.

[Blue Ghost]

Would a PrC devoted to Asmodeus be admissible? Barring that, what about the Forgotten Realms god Cyric in a non-FR setting? I have a great idea for a Deceiver PrC (a character dedicated to the spread of heresy and corruption), but I can't find a deity in the standard pantheon that's the right fit for it.

[Saint Nil]

Are we restricted to which Diety we can use?

[thegurullamen]

I don't see any problems with either of your issues, Saint Nil and blue_ghost. Hell, I made my deity up, so I'm sure both of yours would count.

[dman11235]

Yeah, as long as it's a deity it really doesn't matter. You'll note that this contest is not setting specific. Just note that if you choose a deity that no one has ever heard of you might not be a good choice in their eyes:smalltongue:

[Vaynor]

Ok I'm working on my entry now, it should be done in a few days. My idea so far is a kind of missionary that will stop at no cost to convert anyone of a differing faith, even if it's against their will. :smallamused:

I'm making up a deity, but I think I'm fleshing him out well enough that it shouldn't be a problem.

Edit: Submission is up, and done as far as I can tell. Can anyone see any balance problems with it? I'm not sure if the DCs for its conversion abilities are too high/low.

[Blue Ghost]

My Deceiver of Asmodeus PrC is almost done. I promise you'll like it!

EDIT: Yayy! Finally done! Do you like it?

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I just realized I havn't been keeping track of this. I have a PrC with all the crunchy-bits done, I can still enter, right?

[thegurullamen]

I just realized I havn't been keeping track of this. I have a PrC with all the crunchy-bits done, I can still enter, right?

Deadline's Tuesday I believe.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Posted the vua-xuu q'R'lyeh. :biggrin:

[dman11235]

Uhhhh.....I don't think I ended it on Tuesday, it should have ended last night at midnight. Unless I messed up. Again.

Curses. I messed up. Again. Why did I fall off the norm yet again? Yes Krimm, yours is in. I need to now undo all that work.

[The Demented One]

Ragged Priest is up, based on a very interesting AIM conversation with Krimm.

[thegurullamen]

On a dark and stormy night...

Thought I had a chance until he walked through the door. He looked like a demented David Tennant-knockoff from some cheesy sci-fi show. A closer look at his car told me he was trouble. Two door, cobalt blue police boxes mean money and money don't come by these parts unless it's trouble they're in. Or trouble they're after.

He strolled in like he owned the place and no one's to say he didn't. 'Keep poured him a drink which was fine by me. Anything to keep his eyes off'a me was better than the alternative. But something about the way he held his drink, the way his fingers tapped on the counter told me things were about to get interesting.

I tried to edge my way out, escape unseen, but it was too late.

"Ragged Priest is up, based on a very interesting AIM conversation with Krimm."

Damn him. All is lost.

(gunfire)

[dman11235]

I should clarify the current contest. It's not requiring an NPC class as a prereq, but the PrC you design will be more.....un-heroic....than normal ones. Like making a lumberjack PrC....so they can lumber better. Or sports. Or teaching. That sort of thing. Meant for NPCs, not PCs.

[Lord_Gareth]

^_^ Well, maybe, maybe not. I, personally, am a fan of the "common man" becoming more heroic.

[Lord_Gareth]

The crunch for Spook is up - check it out! Fluff to be finished later.

[Xallace]

Posted the "Angry Mob Rioter."
That was way fun to make.

And... wait... Gareth? From the WotC boards? Is that the same you?

[Lord_Gareth]

Yes, yes it is. Do I know you?

[Xallace]

You might recall the username of "Wall?"

[Lord_Gareth]

Vaguely; I think he was a pretty cool guy.

[Xallace]

Always good to feel remembered, even if only vaguely. Too bad our big "Chosen of the Masks" project never really took off... I think people lost interest in it after the "Master of Masks" came out in Complete Scoundrel... ah well.

And for the rest of the peoples reading, I updated the Angry Mob Rioter slightly; forgot to put in the effects of the Rioter getting shot down before his mob dispersed... I dunno, I may have to tweak that some more even now.

[Lord_Gareth]

Yeah, that is a shame.

Can I get some comments on my Spook? I may end up submitting it to a campaign or two >.<

[Mr.Bookworm]

Yeah, that is a shame.

Can I get some comments on my Spook? I may end up submitting it to a campaign or two >.<

I skimmed it, and it looks pretty good.

Though a bit sadistic.

The Chicken Warrior is up, and I'll finish it up tonight and tomorrow.

[Xallace]

Yeah, that is a shame.

Can I get some comments on my Spook? I may end up submitting it to a campaign or two >.<

Dark. And Creepy. And Dark.
It gives me the feel of a violent street gang. Like those guys who spin you around on your tavern stool to face them and tell you "This is our turf" before beating you up and leaving you in the alley way. No far reaching schemes or anything. Oh, and the whole thing takes place in Ravenloft.

It's almost like the anti-social rogue. The abilities allow a little extra strategizing against humanoids and the like. Which fits the flavor, and was your intention. But Undead, Contructs, Oozes... you're still not going to be too effective against them at all, just like rogues.

I didn't look too hard at the mechanics otherwise (yet), but it looks solidly balanced against the rogue and other sneaky classes.

[Owrtho]

Hmmm, I'm thinking I might want to try making a master of blackmail type class for this. What do you other people think?

Owrtho

[Xallace]

Hmmm, I'm thinking I might want to try making a master of blackmail type class for this. What do you other people think?

Owrtho

Sounds like a fun idea if you can figure out how to do it. Lots of Gather Info and Intimidate bonuses?

[Lord_Gareth]

Thank'ee for the flavor comments; that was indeed the fluff I was aiming for. Got anything I could improve on the crunch?

[Mr.Bookworm]

Thank'ee for the flavor comments; that was indeed the fluff I was aiming for. Got anything I could improve on the crunch?

I would personally raise the skill points to 6+Int, and raise the HD to d6.

But that might just be me.

[Lord_Gareth]

Both are artificially low, since this is an NPC-PrC

[Mr.Bookworm]

Both are artificially low, since this is an NPC-PrC

I suppose.

I thought it was just supposed to build something of an NPC class, not act as a class pretty much un-playable to PCs.

Which is why I tried to make mine playable in a non-optimizing normal campaign.

If that's not the case, though...

[celtois]

ok sweet I have my crunch done and I know the flavour...now to work on the wording

[dman11235]

And Angry Mob Rioter takes it! I must say, I didn't think it was possible to top the Evil Overlord, but this one made me laugh a lot as well. Great job this time guys.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Now I'm curious about the next contest. I'm utterly without inspiration right now and I need a jump-start.

[Xallace]

Now I'm curious about the next contest. I'm utterly without inspiration right now and I need a jump-start.

Same. Can't wait.

[thegurullamen]

I vote for something ghosty!

[Owrtho]

How bout for the next contest, those without a sound mind. They're insane, so you don't have to be.

Owrtho

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

How bout for the next contest, those without a sound mind. They're insane, so you don't have to be.

Owrtho

Yeah, we can name it "Krimm Wins This PrC Contest!"
:smallbiggrin:

[Vaynor]

Yeah, we can name it "Krimm Wins This PrC Contest almost but then loses it to Vaynor!"

[Owrtho]

Just curious, but does the class actualy have to mind control, or could it just screw over other's minds... Cuz if it's the latter, I have a somewhat fun idea fo a class already (though dm's might hate it due to it giving them extra work).

Owrtho

[Siegel]

Is it allowed to post inspiration for other people since i'm completly unproficent with designing D&D stuff.

[dman11235]

You must control aspects of the mind. I was purposefully vague on what that meant, so you could, say, use control to make people think so well they get stronger, or something, but could also just control actions, or inhibit actions or something.

I don't see why not, but the submissions thread is for submissions only. And the entries must be original work, so ideas and they do all of the work would probably be fine, but if you're involved in the creation process.....

[Xallace]

Well this is a tough one, considering how straight-forward "mind control" is. But that's a nice challenge. Gauntlet thrown, gauntlet picked up, and now I'm about to Dominate a mind with the Gauntlet.

[dman11235]

That's why I left it open to various definitions and degrees of mind control. For instance, a PrC dedicated to controlling friendly minds and making them strong fits the bill. Or someone devoted to tearing down an opponent's mental defenses and faculties. Or just straight control.

[Owrtho]

What about someone who affects the opponent's mental state? Like say causing insanity. Or other simmilar things.

Owrtho

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Now I'm curious. Does it count if someone's become immune to insanity and things like it, and also imposes sanity and mental degradation on others?

If so, I have a plethora of entries to choose from.

[boomwolf]

Utlize mind control? don't we have the mindbender for that?

Anyway, its a great chance to make something I was thinking about for quite some time (dreamblade-using a sword to force others into sleep/nightmares/illustrations/insanity etc etc...)

It works for the competition as rule-wise right? sleep IS a mind-effecting spell after all.e

[dman11235]

Well, the Mindbender sucks, and is a tad too specific.

Owrtho and Krimm have it right. You don't have to control the whole mind, just aspects of it. Be creative. Something like causing people to think better and thus boosting combat aspects would even work. Yes, this is probably the most general one I will do.

[boomwolf]

But I like playing mindbender...they are too fun flavor-wise...

Anyways-got a new idea that will push the bounds of DnD the same way the untap symbol pushed the bounds of MTG...I got in love with the sleep factor, but I'm taking it another way, instead of a crowd-control melee I'll take it to a supernatural direction.

Jest before I go there-am I allowed to add a related feat? (for requirement purpose.)

[DracoDei]

Well, I have started working up something for this...
Going to be based on Squirro (sp) the telepathic horse from the "Mode" series by Piers Anthony (no they aren't nearly as silly as they sound).

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Fall down in fear and unknowing as your mind is rended like the still-breathing carcass of a dead cow being eaten by something man was not meant to see. The warped angel is something that will drill holes into your mind and destroy your sanity! Fall before it! FALL!!

[Mr.Bookworm]

Fall down in fear and unknowing as your mind is rended like the still-breathing carcass of a dead cow being eaten by something man was not meant to see. The warped angel is something that will drill holes into your mind and destroy your sanity! Fall before it! FALL!!

Krimm, every time I fear the world has run out of ToB content, you make another PrC.

On another note, I've been working on my own, which will invariably lose. Practice is always handy, though.

[Lord_Gareth]

I think I'll make something around Despair; I call 'im the Nihilator.

[AsuroftheStair]

Firstly, hello, I look forward to seeing the other submissions! Secondly, the following was mistakenly posted on the Contest thread:


@ Anor: Thanks!
@ Krimm: I've never had/played with any one from the ToB, so I can't talk about it from a crunch perspective, but it is a really cool idea! Also, really great picture!

[Xallace]

I figure I can't compete with things like Despair, DID, and Kuh-raaAAAAaaz-iness; the interest in such things is just too high! But I'm going to toss in a class on Confidence and Hope anyway. Let's see if I can make Optimism kick some posterior.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I figure I can't compete with things like Despair, DID, and Kuh-raaAAAAaaz-iness; the interest in such things is just too high! But I'm going to toss in a class on Confidence and Hope anyway. Let's see if I can make Optimism kick some posterior.

Hiissssss.

[DracoDei]

I have kinda run out of energy... getting it posted so I can maybe get some feedback/encouragement might help, but since I have to weed through all the basic psionic powers (not those specific to a specific sub-class of psion) it is going slowly... also, coming up with how the class interacts with the rest of the world is a bit hard... these guys don't work well alone (at all...), and in a group they fade into the background to an outside observer.

Exactly how complete should it be before I post it?


Edit: Posted, feedback very much appreicated! Especially on how good their powers list is compared to a single-classed Telepath (it should be a bit worse since they are getting better saves BAB and skill points, not to mention the core ability of the class),

[AsuroftheStair]

A cool concept which can be made really awesome with some tweeking.

I saw that the Benign Telepath has hinted abilities in Benign Telepathy (Body becoming unparalyzed and being able to initiate psionics). Were you still thinking of still adding those? If the Body is going to be unparalyzed, I think having the original player take over the body would be best.
Since the Benign Telepathy has such a limited duration, can't take over an unwilling target, and have to sustain the effect, maybe you should get rid of Mind Switch's XP penalty.
Mind Switch, as it replaces the target, seems (to me) to be out of the vein of this class. I personally had two ideas of how to adjust this, both of which involves the target staying in primary control of the body:

Powers are purely mental actions, so have the Benign Telepath inhabit the body and supplement the host with psionics.
Psionically themed combo attacks! If you made two or three general abilities for each type of "power source" (as 4.0. Ex. Augment Spells with Power Points) staggered over the levels (Combos I, Combos II, Combos III).

Somewhat in this vein, you could make the character (over the levels) become less & less connected with his own body, at 10th level living in other people's bodies for all the time (a beneficial symbiotic relationship).

[DracoDei]

A cool concept which can be made really awesome with some tweeking.
Thank you very much, nice to know that I have some potential in PrCs as well as creatures.


I saw that the Benign Telepath has hinted abilities in Benign Telepathy (Body becoming unparalyzed and being able to initiate psionics). Were you still thinking of still adding those? If the Body is going to be unparalyzed, I think having the original player take over the body would be best.
:smallannoyed: Well... pragmatically what should happen is that the original players maintain control of the same characters once things get to that point. Technically it is going to be the Benign Controller controlling both bodies with the host kibitzing mentally in the host's body, but having a player sitting around doing nothing too often is not good mechanics design.

Since the Benign Telepathy has such a limited duration, can't take over an unwilling target, and have to sustain the effect, maybe you should get rid of Mind Switch's XP penalty.
Yeah... just knew that was the general ballpark of the effect I wanted, just hadn't read it recently enough. XP cost is definitely going away.

Mind Switch, as it replaces the target, seems (to me) to be out of the vein of this class. I personally had two ideas of how to adjust this, both of which involves the target staying in primary control of the body:
Actually, that is the whole point of the class... a bit interestingly ironic to be sure but that is part of the uniqueness. Remember though that the base mind can kibitz (and grab control back at any time, but that kinda defeats the purpose). They take people over to do what those people can't for them... which is why they get full BAB, 2 good saves, and a good number of skill points (should probably bump that up to 6+INT or 8+INT instead of 4+INT). Not to mention the fighter type feats (yes, the feats are from the fighter bonus feat list, possibly also skill focus and a few other such things...).

Powers are purely mental actions, so have the Benign Telepath inhabit the body and supplement the host with psionics. As soon as they get the ability to manifest powers while inside another person's head this will definitely be one mode availible to them. But only powers that target the host's body.

Psionically themed combo attacks! If you made two or three general abilities for each type of "power source" (as 4.0. Ex. Augment Spells with Power Points) staggered over the levels (Combos I, Combos II, Combos III).
I loath 4E so I am not sure exactly what you are talking about, but it sounds like an interesting concept... not sure if their is room for it in with the other ideas I have...


Somewhat in this vein, you could make the character (over the levels) become less & less connected with his own body, at 10th level living in other people's bodies for all the time (a beneficial symbiotic relationship).
That could be very good...

[Enlong]

Similar but the reverse of Orthrow's question: Does the class have to exert control over a person's mind, or is the brain enough? Would a class that controls people by hijacking their central nervous system, while the actual creature sits helpless in a corner of their mind fit in? (I suppose the question is: Do you consider the Yeerks to use mind control?)

[DracoDei]

A Yeerk would count as violating the restriction. It is about not interfering with Free Will in a any sort of invasive way basically.

[Enlong]

A Yeerk would count as violating the restriction. It is about not interfering with Free Will in a any sort of invasive way basically.

Explain to me exactly where the restriction lies.
For a bit of reference, my actual class idea is to have a character who uses "strings" of psionic power to take over a target's brain. As they progress through the class, the power becomes more mental, allowing them to use their psychic force to augment their puppet's strength (I.E. using their INT score instead of the target's STR), taking over constructs and undead (would not be possible normally as they don't have a working nervous system), eventual access to the target's thoughts and memories, leaving a "mark" in a puppet for remote control, etc.

It's really got nothing to do with physically invading the target. I only used the Yeerks as a metaphor for the intended end result, which is control of the brain (with slow movement toward taking over the mind.

I think this works? It fits in with the intended theme; as it uses mind control (or at least brain control)

Of course, I may be fixing the wrong problem here; help me out?

[DracoDei]

The power as I envisioned it is no more usable on a construct or undead than any other psionic power. Now if you wanted to hybridize/multiclass it with something else, that would be an interesting concept. The usual use of the class is to get the party wizard out of tight spots without the wizard wasting spell-slots, or whatever... mostly meant to be used on fellow PCs, with the occasional mount, hireling, cohort, or whatever... basically lets you turn any party member into a limited type of skillmonkey or fighter at key moments on the fly.

Doing it on your own constructs probably wouldn't cause a problem if creating the construct in the first place didn't. And Intellegent undead are no more of a problem than any other ally (although Commanded Undead, including all mindless ones might be a different story).

[Enlong]

Let me see if I understand the gist of that:
The class would either A: use his power to control allies, giving them benefits while doing so, such as bonus to stats, greater accuracy, or just the increase in effectiveness from being controlled by a better tactitian (If you're better at using a psionic devices then your rogue friend, manipulate him into using it right. Take control of the figher and move him into a more strategic position that he didnt see from his perspective, etc.)
Or B: take control of constructs, undead, etc and use them as minions... (thematically appropriate for the class: It was named "puppet master" for a reason)

Actually, I like the "boost the abilities of your party members through control thing"... but that seems a lot like your class, the benign controller.
Hm... but if I don't use a unique powers list, focus on the improving of allies' powers through mental (and a little bit of telekinetic) control, and extend that power to unwilling targets...
What do you think, is there potential?

[DracoDei]

I was really only talking about the limitations imposed by the "Forswear Domination" class feature...

Go for 'B' if you ask me... keeps up the degree of variety... then to 'A' seperately... of course as a fan of my own class I can't honestly say that I am sure that 'A' wouldn't be cooler...

But yeah, those sound like their MIGHT be enough difference that they would seem to be two different flavors and very different mechanics...

And it isn't like I didn't call out what I was going to do fairly early on... so you had warning (or did you also state what you were going to do early?). In any case I don't think we are going to be in danger of plagerizing eachother or really duplicating effort... we might step on eachothers toes a bit, but I don't know.

[Enlong]

Oh. Wait.
Waitwaitwaitwaitwait.
Wait, you thought I was asking a question about your class back on the last page? Back there I was asking whether an idea I had fit within the parameters of the contest. My original idea was different. Sorry, it seems we had a breakdown of communication.

[DracoDei]

Yes, yes we did...

[dman11235]

Explain to me exactly where the restriction lies.
For a bit of reference, my actual class idea is to have a character who uses "strings" of psionic power to take over a target's brain. As they progress through the class, the power becomes more mental, allowing them to use their psychic force to augment their puppet's strength (I.E. using their INT score instead of the target's STR), taking over constructs and undead (would not be possible normally as they don't have a working nervous system), eventual access to the target's thoughts and memories, leaving a "mark" in a puppet for remote control, etc.

It's really got nothing to do with physically invading the target. I only used the Yeerks as a metaphor for the intended end result, which is control of the brain (with slow movement toward taking over the mind.

I think this works? It fits in with the intended theme; as it uses mind control (or at least brain control)

Of course, I may be fixing the wrong problem here; help me out?

That's mind control, for all intents and purposes. I mean, Dominate Person is mind control, and it does exactly that, basically (yes, I know, that was not intentional).

For the record: I have no idea what the Yeerks are.

[Owrtho]

For the record: I have no idea what the Yeerks are.

It's from Animorphs. They were an alien race that resembled large slugs that would crall into people's ear, wrap around their brain, and take control of them as well as have access to all their memories.

Owrtho

[AsuroftheStair]

:smallannoyed: Well... pragmatically what should happen is that the original players maintain control of the same characters once things get to that point. Technically it is going to be the Benign Controller controlling both bodies with the host kibitzing mentally in the host's body, but having a player sitting around doing nothing too often is not good mechanics design.

:frown: Maybe I should have been more succinct, since the main issue for me was that the class didn't say when this restriction was lifted.



Actually, that is the whole point of the class... a bit interestingly ironic to be sure but that is part of the uniqueness. Remember though that the base mind can kibitz (and grab control back at any time, but that kinda defeats the purpose)....

We both have mostly the same idea, but differ on how to make the crunch. To clarify, I would suggest that the Benign Telepath would come into the body as a supplemental force (as if a cleric were constantly next to the host, casting spells on him) as opposed to taking over the body (like a fighter/wizard ghost which casts spells), but if that's fully how you wanted it, then good.
- A part of me wonders how many times Benign Telepaths will (as the class is currently made) just fight in their own bodies, given their good attacks, armor proficiency, and saves.



I loath 4E so I am not sure exactly what you are talking about, but it sounds like an interesting concept... not sure if their is room for it in with the other ideas I have...

Essentially how the class functions/main focus. Currently Arcane, Divine, Martial are in 4.0, but you can make distinctions wherever you want.

[DracoDei]

Have been busily updating as I usually do... have done a lot of the fluff I was worried about for instance, and specified what the bonus feats can be used for. Still need to put in the various stages that there control ability improves in. Capstone will probably be the pinacle of that... something like running both bodies at once, but with limited manifestation and -1 to all saves, checks and attack rolls.

Hope I didn't mangle the formatting this last time around... need to check on it...


:frown: Maybe I should have been more succinct, since the main issue for me was that the class didn't say when this restriction was lifted.



We both have mostly the same idea, but differ on how to make the crunch. To clarify, I would suggest that the Benign Telepath would come into the body as a supplemental force (as if a cleric were constantly next to the host, casting spells on him) as opposed to taking over the body (like a fighter/wizard ghost which casts spells), but if that's fully how you wanted it, then good.
Well, as they get more skillful what you suggest becomes more of an option... basically at the lower levels they can't maniphest so the only point to it is for the skills feats, saves and BAB put into the other body. Later they can ride along and buff on the fly or maybe even do the occasional offensive spell.


- A part of me wonders how many times Benign Telepaths will (as the class is currently made) just fight in their own bodies, given their good attacks, armor proficiency, and saves.
Yeah, it is a bit of a problem, but I don't see any way around it that makes logical sense. If I were going to throw plausibility to the wind in favor of balance I might say they can ONLY use their skills in the bodies of others... In any case I don't see it as too big a problem... they can do that until someone needs their help and then take the time to withdraw before making the jump if they want but staying back and doing mental damage works better for being in a safe spot to take advantage of opportunities in the flow of battle.



Essentially how the class functions/main focus. Currently Arcane, Divine, Martial are in 4.0, but you can make distinctions wherever you want.
Ah... interesting idea, but that would be a varient of the class rather than the class I have in mind.

[DracoDei]

Have made many updates for clarity, added most of the fluff for the class itself (as opposed to the example character who I have barely started even crunch-wise), and started to list out the stages in which the benign controller becomes better at multitasking.

Please comment, especially on balance issues and/or if benign telepathy will ever get used, or if this is just a gish (pish?) class as it currently stands...

EDIT: looked at Schism... seems to be lacking caster levels for its abilities... class level would make the Manifestated Ego frightfully vulnerable to dispelling, and the saves already make it a crap shoot, especially since it is 1/day.
Also, the pickable Spell-like abilities seem a bit out of place to me.

[Kroy]

I'm curious, is there a base class building contest?

[Enlong]

THere have been in the past, I think.

[dman11235]

There was, but it failed for one very important reason: base classes are too general. You can't really have themes. With PrCs you can make a class for stealth archers or for clerics of Pelor, but if you tried to do that with base classes you'd end up with another Paladin. PHB version.

[Kroy]

Ahh, got it.

[Exanedral]

As my entry in the class creation contest, I present the Delusionist! Delusionists control reality by controlling perceptions of themselves and others, to an extent that normal illusionists and enchanters cannot. Go check it out, and good luck to everyone who posted a class! Good work!

[Owrtho]

Reminds me of my "Believers of the Void" entry in one of the other contests. Though all they could do was disbelieve reality, not believe it into something else.

Owrtho

[Enlong]

Ah, here's the thread.

Okay, my class is up: the Puppet Master!
Puppet Masters pretty much do what the name suggests: they use psychic "strings" to hijack a target's brain and move their body around, like living puppets. Check it out, tell me what you think, and good luck to everyone in the contest!

[Enlong]

Oh my. Are you serious?
This newest contest... ahahah! It's like these last two were made for me. I already have an elemental class ready for reworking!

[Owrtho]

What would be awsome would be to see one using the periodic table.

Owrtho

[DracoDei]

Hmmm.... I am thinking something that is built around Smoke... playing off my "Smokey Floaters"... Would have Stinking Cloud and/or Pyrotechnics as some of the prerequisites... would also get SLA's to summon Smokey Floaters of increasing quality as well as bonuses to the DC and/or SLA castings of the above two spells, plus "Incidiary Cloud", and "Cloud Kill"... restance and then immunity to inhaled toxins, and then no need to breath maybe... token fire resistance, and for the capstone, the ability to see an unlimited distance through smoke and fog (much like my Wing Dragons)...

So... do people think they would discount that because of my reuse of a few ideas from the Smokey Floaters and Wing Dragons? Other than that, how does it sound?

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I'm contemplating putting another one of two I've already made into this next one, if only because I'm not having any ideas for another one that isn't really really boring and mundane. I'm only resisting putting another old one on because it's kind of unsporting... at least in my opinion.:smallfrown:

[afroakuma]

Krimm, it's you. By nature, you being in a contest for us mere mortals is unsporting. :smalltongue:

[Bhu]

I notice the elemental contest includes positive and negative energy.

Im assuming the PrC doesnt have to be a caster.

Are we allowed to make useful but funny ones?

[dman11235]

Why would it not be allowed? Besides, you see the Evil Overlord?

Also: In my games, the 6 inner planes (air, earth, fire, water, +, -) are the six elements. Each has an energy tied to them (air=electricity/sonic, fire=fire, water=cold, +=+, -=-, earth=acid) and make up the material plane. In fact, they connect to the material plane in a way, and outer planes don't exist (and by association, nothing that is exclusive to outer planes don't exist as-is).

[Bhu]

Well I had this idea for a positive energy based Barbarian PrC called the Super Happy Fun Berserker...

And if that doesnt work i was gonna go with something darker with negative energy...

[Bhu]

Okay most of the Super Happy Fun Berserker is up. I just need to add equipment and tweak it a little.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Oh hell, I've got no inspiration. I'll just post a old one of mine.

[Zak Crimsonleaf]

Looks like we have a good variety of entries up so far. I'm not using the default elements, which I hope is allowed. Wu Xing does actually mean 'five elements' or 'movements' or 'phases' or something like that, according to Wikipedia. Like most of my classes, it's overpowered and trying to do too many things, but the idea was an interesting one, so I'm putting it up anyway. Advice is welcome.

[Bhu]

Looks like we have a good variety of entries up so far. I'm not using the default elements, which I hope is allowed. Wu Xing does actually mean 'five elements' or 'movements' or 'phases' or something like that, according to Wikipedia. Like most of my classes, it's overpowered and trying to do too many things, but the idea was an interesting one, so I'm putting it up anyway. Advice is welcome.

Do you have to choose a particular element? I didnt't notice if it said so anywhere. Plus you may wish to define the Channel the Inner Element somewhat more thoroughly. Does knowing what element dominates a person give you any real advantage at all? Is knowing their health similar to the Deathwatch spell?

[DracoDei]

First draft on Miasma-mancer is up... PLEASE critique...

[Zak Crimsonleaf]

Yes, you have to select one element. I thought I had said that somewhere in there, but I'll make sure it's clear on that point. And no, knowing an inner element provides no statistical advantage, it's more of a roleplaying option. I'll work in more detail on the health bit. No, it isn't like Deathwatch, more like hit point total and medical conditions.

[Aergoth]

Elemental Anathema 0.5 is up. Wondering if I should just do a 10 level PrC instead of 20. It fits nicely.

EDIT: @Draco Check your spelling on some of those class features you use an = sign instead of a - hyphen. I like the concept, it's not a bad one, but you might want to check Energy Admixture, and explosive spell, they're both from Complete Arcane, one lets you mix energy types in a spell, the other one let's you mess with area damage.

[Bhu]

First draft on Miasma-mancer is up... PLEASE critique...

Is it finished? The class abilities arent up yet cept two.

Are the 11th and 12th levels supposed to be there? They don’t have class abilities or BAB listed.

[Aergoth]

I can has feedback?
But seriously, any thoughts on making it a 1-10 PrC?

[DracoDei]

Is it finished? The class abilities arent up yet cept two.

Are the 11th and 12th levels supposed to be there? They don’t have class abilities or BAB listed.
If it was finished I wouldn't need critique. :smallbiggrin:
No seriously... I posted it while it was rather sketchy so I could get some very prelimiary feedback to see what people thought of the basic concept... as usual these days I was running behind due to a lack of mental energy (exhaustion for no easily explained reason). Please help me out here people...

EDIT: Ok, just the fact that you said even that much has given me the strength to post a bunch more of the abilities.

11th and 12th levels are their just in case I decide to break the mold and not HAPPEN to make it have a number of levels evenly divisible by 5. Easier to take them out at the last minute than to add them in if I decide I want them and previously took them out.

[Eloel]

Color Tweaker's up, critiques please.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Oh crap! I just realized I should probably post my latest creation in here! The Soulfire Invoker. Screw off, esoteric energist!

[DracoDei]

Well, just make sure to make a seperate thread for the Esoteric Energist rather than depriving us of it.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Well, just make sure to make a seperate thread for the Esoteric Energist rather than depriving us of it.

It already has one. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87993) :smallbiggrin:

[Eloel]

Critics needed/wanted on Color Tweaker.

[DracoDei]

I can probably take a look at that today some time... you mind returning the favor on the Miasma-mancer? I still need to put in the spells they get added to their spells known for free and maybe one or two other things... but I still would like to know how everything else works...
Of especial interest is how I made their spellcasting advance both faster and slower than a single classed sorcerer or wizard due to not having full progression... but having MORE than full progression in certain ways... seemed a good way to make the level that you enter the class more flexiable while still giving the bonus spells known and spell-slots.

Copying this below so I can edit step by step... will be editing in rounds, so check back from time to time...

Color Tweaker
There is no strong nor weak. There's right color, and wrong ones., Coltwe the Color Tweaker

I am going to assume you didn't grow up speaking English... nothing wrong with that of course... but it is leading to some muddy grammer in places... will try to say "fix this" or provide specific edits in some places, but I don't know if I feel like getting EVERYTHING for you... perhaps the help of others could cover some of that...

Here it should say "There is the right, and the wrong ones."


Color Tweaker is the utilizer of elements to empower or weaken forces.

BECOMING A COLOR TWEAKER
Color Tweakers become so at great understanding of nature and various elements of nature.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
: Neutral on good-evil axis, being a Color Tweaker needs equal judging of everyone, and lacking commitment to the good or the evil.

Your grammer is poor here, and your philosophical explaination insufficiently developed...


: No innate energy resistance

Should also include immunities as well as resistances.


: Knowledge (any 2), 8 ranks each

Probably want to include at least "Unarmed Strike Class feature" as a requirement here... since this seems a monk-focused PrC...


Class Skills
The Color Tweaker's class skills are....Appraise, Balance, Craft, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Hide, Knowledge (all, taken individually), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Swim, Tumble

Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int
Hit Dice: d8
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Color Force (+1), Primary Color(1), Colorful Rush
2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|-
3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+3|Primary Color(2)
4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Color Force (+2)
5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Secondary Color(1), Share the Color
6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+5|Primary Color (3)
7th|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+5|Secondary Color(2), Color Force (+3)
8th|
+6|
+6|
+2|
+6|-
9th|
+6|
+6|
+3|
+6|Secondary Color(3)
10th|
+7|
+7|
+3|
+7|Black and White, Color Force (+4)[/table]
Weapon Proficiencies: A Color Tweaker doesn't gain proficiency in any weapon or armor.

Class Abilities

Colorful Rush(ex)
A Color Tweaker gains +2 to initiative checks and +10 to base land speed when not wearing any armor or wearing light armor.

Color Force(ex)

You should have an explicit reference to the existance of the explanation of the functions of the various colors somewhere in this section. As it stands it is too confusing.


A Color Tweaker has the ability to manipulate elements of his choice.Turning off the power of a color is a swift action, and turning on is a free action. The Color Tweaker can't have more than one color active at a time. (It can't be dispelled or supressed, because it's an extraordinary ability, and not merely magic)
A Tweaker, although able to use Color Defense as much as he desires, is only able to use Color Touch 1 minute/level for every color. It need not be continous, yet the smallest interval is 12 seconds, except Black and White touches, which have their own limitations.

-Color Defense

-Resistance to EnergyType, 5 * Color Force
-Orange, Black, White are exceptions, see color descriptions

-Color Touch.

-A Color Tweaker can make a melee touch attack with the color of his choice. That touch attack is considered an unarmed strike, for all purposes. Upon hitting, the Color Tweaker deals his normal unarmed strike damage, and color effect with the color he's currently using. Color Touch can apply to all unarmed strikes, so it can be used in conjuction with Flurry of Blows done with unarmed strikes.

-The Color Tweaker can also choose to make a ranged touch attack with the color of his choice. Such an attack has a range increment of 30 ft, and can be used to make as many attacks as your base attack allows. When used ranged, the Color Touch can be used in conjuction with feats like Rapidshot and Manyshot.

The Color Tweaker has +1 modifier to Color Force at 1st level, and it increases by 1 every 3 levels.

Primary Color
A Color Tweaker is proficient with the primary color of his choice. Once chosen, it can't be changed, yet new ones are added as Color Tweaker's experience in tweaking goes up. The Color Tweaker can choose one primary color at first level, one at third level, and one at sixth level.

Red; Fire
Red Touch deals 1d8*Color Force fire damage for every hit.

Blue; Cold
Blue Touch deals 1d6*Color Force+Half Enemy's HD (upto 3) cold damage for every hit

Yellow; Electricity
Yellow Touch deals 1d6*Color Force electric damage, and you get +2 to attack rolls if enemy is wearing metal armor, or +1 to attack roll, if the enemy is bearing a metal shield or weapon.

Secondary Color
A Color Tweaker, in addition to his proficiency with Primary Colors, gains proficiency with Secondary Colors. At level 5, he gains one Secondary Color, at level 7, he gains another, and finally at level 9, he completes his palette of colors. First Secondary Color has to be the mixture of the first 2 primary colors you choose. Purple for Red/Blue, Green for Blue/Yellow, Orange for Red/Yellow.

Purple; Sonic
Purple Touch deals 1d6*Color Force damage, and ignores hardness of any object, when attacking objects.

Green; Acid
Green Touch deals 1d4*Color Force damage when you first deal your damage, and half that damage for next 2 rounds.

Orange; Earth
Orange Touch deals 1d6*Color Force damage, ignoring any damage resistance. The fact that there's no Earth Resistance, improves the power of Orange Touch. Orange Defense provides you with 2*Color Force/- damage resistance.

Share the Color
As a swift action, you may lend one or both of your color abilities to anyone you touch. When you lend them your ability, you can't use it till you recall the ability from the person you've lended, as a free action that doesn't need touching.
If you change the color you're using when you've lended an ability, that ability also changes accordingly, and you don't need to touch them again to bestow it again, unless you've recalled your ability since the last time you bestowed it. The sharing lasts until you recall or 10 minutes, whichever is sooner.

Black and White
Upon reaching tenth level, the Color Tweaker gains the ability to make use of Black and White colors.

Black; Negative
Black Touch bestows 1d4 negative levels per touch, and you can only use Black Touch equal to your HD every day. Black Defense reduces the negative levels you get by 1, if you're ever on the receiving end of negative level dealing.

White; Positive
White Touch, instead of dealing White Damage, heals 4d8 damage per touch, and you can only use White Touch equal to your HD every day. White Defense provides you with 10 resistance to every energy.

As normal, every negative level to be dealt on an undead instead gives them 5 temporary hitpoints, and healing instead damages them.

PLAYING A COLOR TWEAKER
A Color Tweaker lives behind the meatshields of the team, giving close support, holding breaches whenever necessary.
Combat: Color Tweakers generally rush in fast, deal considerable damage, then fall behind the main fighting line to support them. Their Colorful Rush helps them use this tactic, yet other tactics are possible.
Advancement: Most Color Tweakers advance to classes focused on unarmed striking, as their main power is using unarmed attacks in conjuction with Color Touches.
Resources: Color Tweakers usually see nature's adjustment to circumstances as the ultimate way of surviving, so they live in nature, with harmony with it.

COLOR TWEAKERS IN THE WORLD
Those are not light effects, that's a Color Tweaker!
Color Tweakers are usually treated with respect by those who want to learn more about the forces of color and elements. Anyone who first encounters a Color Tweaker looks down upon them for, until they realize the force they bear.
Daily Life: Most Color Tweakers live in the wilderness, although there are a few that live in cities. The ones living in the wilderness work on improving their bond with the nature, and their force upon the colors, while the ones in the city are usually those that believe they've reached the limit of the force of colors.
Notables: The most notable Color Tweaker is Coltwe, the founder of the forces of color. Color Tweaking is not learned in a school, it's learned by experience, and from other Color Tweakers.
Organizations: When said organizations, Rainbow Guild is the first that comes to mind about Color Tweakers. The Rainbow Guild's sole purpose is to understand colors deeper, and find powers of other colors. The organization, although mostly joint by Color Tweakers, is home to many monks and druids who want a deeper understanding of the power acting upon the world.

COLOR TWEAKERS IN THE GAME
Resistance/Immunity to a damage type won't stop experienced Color Tweakers, as they can quickly change their color and keep on pummeling with the new force. Damage Resistance does slow the Tweakers down, as the only color that can bypass DR, Orange, deals less damage than other colors.
Adaptation: Most Color Tweakers are monks who went for a deeper understanding of forces. PCs, and NPCs could be seekers of force, which they would gain as they gain experience with the usage of their force.
Encounters: This is a place to describe what sort of encounters PC's will have with NPC versions of your class.

Sample Encounter
Traon, a Color Tweaker, blames the town of disturbing nature and tipping the balance of colors. The PCs arrive right at the moment Traon starts blasting the people in the town, and they should put a stop to his fury, although they know he isn't evil.
EL 15: Traon's only aim is to make people understand the balance of the nature, and the colors. He won't attack who's willing to come to terms with him, yet he attack anyone who sounds threathening to himself or the balance.


Traon Colorweaver
Lawful Neutral/Male/Human/Monk 5/Colorweaver 10
Init +10, Senses: Listen +20, Spot +20,
Languages
Common, Terran
------------------------------------------------
AC 23, touch 17, flat-footed 19
HP97 (15d8 HD)
Fort +10, Ref +11, Will +10
------------------------------------------------
Speed 50 ft. (10 squares)
Melee 16/11/6 (for unarmed)
Base Atk +11/+6/+1, Grp +15
Atk Options
Flurry of Blows, +15/+15/+10/+5, 2d8
-----------------------------------------------
Abilities 8 Str , 18 Dex , 15 Con , 14 Int , 13 Wis , 12 Cha
SQ Flurry of Blows, Evasion, Still Mind, Ki Strike (Magic), Slow Fall 20 ft, Still Mind, Colorful Rush, Primary Color(Red, Blue, Yellow), Secondary Color(Purple, Green, Orange), Share the Color, Black and White, Color Force(+4)
Feats Improved Initiative (Human), Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple (Monk 1), Combat Expertise (Level 1), Combat Reflexes (Monk 2), Weapon Finesse (Unarmed) (Level 3), Improved Disarm (Level 6), Weapon Focus (Unarmed) (Level 9), Improved Natural Attack (Level 12), Deflect Arrows (Level 15)
Skills Listen 18, Spot 18, Knowledge (arcana) 18, Knowledge (religion) 18, Tumble 18, Balance 18
Possessions
Monk's Belt, Bracers of Armor +6, 10k worth of other stuff.

[Eloel]

I'm not a native English speaker, will try fixing the grammar/typing errors. The colors are defined below their respective titles, Red/Blue/Green under Primary Colors, Green/Purple/Orange under Secondary Colors, Black/White under Black and White.

I'll check your's when I'm home, I'm at a friend's right now, so I don't have much time.

Edit: Fixed the ones you commented on. This is not a monk-oriented class, it's just usable by monks. Rangers that take archery style also make excellent Color Tweakers, as they can use Rapidshot and Manyshot and the likes with Color Touch.

Edit2: I started checking your class, and I have a few concerns about it.
1- You haven't explained what Smoke-Casting is.
2- You should follow the pattern of casting through the class, if it's empty-full-full, it should keep on like that. At least that is how it goes through all PrCs available. Also, Breath Anything should be around level 5-6, it's practically useless when this close to Breath Nothing.
3- You talk of an ability Endure, which you haven't explained.
4- The class is too weak, I don't know how to balance it, but it is.
5- You should fix typos. Smokesight or Smoke-sight, not Smoke=sight.
6- You forgot a "Class Ability" at level 4
7- You're missing the last 2 levels. PrCs last 3, 5, or 10 levels, there's none that lasts 12 to my knowledge. Even if you want to make it last 12 levels, make the last 2 levels be worth something.

I'll add more comments as you keep going :)

[Bhu]

11th and 12th levels are their just in case I decide to break the mold and not HAPPEN to make it have a number of levels evenly divisible by 5. Easier to take them out at the last minute than to add them in if I decide I want them and previously took them out.

I like it so far. Im curious as to what Endure is. I'd also give it some sort of + to the Save DC's of gaseous or smoky spells.

[DracoDei]

Made some corrections/updates... thanks for the help guys...

Not sure that pumping the DCs is necessary or balanced... the Smoke-casting (which admittedly had the crunch hidden under "Spell-casting" up until now) is extra spells, including sometimes ones of a level that a single classed wizard or sorcerer (whichever they were before they entered the class) couldn't cast yet... IE a 5th level wizard 9th level Miasma-mancer can cast Summon Monster VII (as long as he is using it to summon Smokey Floaters) whereas a 14th level wizard can't cast that spell at all...

[Eloel]

After calculating the miasma-mancers spells per day, recalculate as if they were 2 levels higher, any spells per day in the second set that are not in the second may only be used for miasma-mancer bonus spells
Any spell in second set not in second set? What?
Miasma-mancer bonus spells, oh great, uh, wait, what are they?

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I've added a bunch of the info after the crunch for the soulfire invoker. I'm quite proud of this one, and I need to develop this more in another thread. :smallbiggrin:

[DracoDei]

Any spell in second set not in second set? What?
Oops... should be "any spell slot or spell known in the first set that is NOT in the second set". I think I fixed this now, as well as adding in the stuff I had in mind to keep it from becoming obsolete when Epic levels are reached...


Miasma-mancer bonus spells, oh great, uh, wait, what are they?
I haven't written the list yet...Now in the process of writing that out... but it is pretty simple in concept... anything that conjures (summoning or calling, doesn't matter) as long as it is used for smokey floaters and any other native of the para-elemental plane of smoke... plus " Smokey" spells like Obscuring Mist, Fog Cloud, Cloud-Kill, Solid Fog, Incendiary Cloud, Gaseous Form... NOT Mind Fog... I will probably decide to say that they can cast Wind Walk as a 6th level arcane spell.

Edit:
Have put in a quote of someone else talking about the class (the "Sorry, but I didn't actually SEE anything..." bit), as well as a tentative picture (supposed to be the gnome...) here is another possibility: http://whyquit.com/pr/Images/inhaling_smoke.jpg

Edit^2: Continue to add to the spell list, also added the ability to craft Furtive Filchers. Decided that with the spells I was adding that would not normally be arcane, that I need to reign the class in some, so I added a feat requirement, and then a limitation on spellcasting that is made somewhat more harsh by the reduction in the usefulness of said feat.


Edit^3: Have gone ahead and edited the original image I used which can be found in the spoiler below. Will change it back if that is a problem copyright-wise...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2162/1811580399_e7392ce7fd.jpg

[Aergoth]

No thoughts on my Anathema?

[Enlong]

Alright. My Elemental Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5520429#post5520429) class has been pulled out of cold storage, touched up, and thrown into the ring. Any critique would be most helpful.

[Eloel]

When/Where is the poll? :P

[DracoDei]

Realized I goofed and forgot the "Planar Binding" spells. Since I consider this on the level of a typo, I went ahead and edited it in.

On a separate subject:
I strongly suggest staggering the due dates for this contest away from VTs monster contest, rather than having them simultaneous.

[dman11235]

But...but...on the month is so easy! I thought of staggering it, but then thought that it would be easier to just do on the month starts. I also thought about giving you guys more than 2/3 of a month to make them, but then thought that a month should be enough time. I might increase the time to a month, and have voting happen while the other one starts. That was the other time limit I had in mind.

Also: gingerbread houses took 6 hours, so I'll start the voting thread tomorrow. It will last 10 days like normal though.

[dman11235]

Voting thread is posted, and I'm sorry Elemental Anathema, but since your table was really messed up I couldn't accept it. Honorary mention, I guess.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Voting isn't even over and I'm already itching to see what the next one shall be.

[Eloel]

Why don't you go ahead and vote?

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Why don't you go ahead and vote?

I feel it's a bit of a conflict of interests.

[Aergoth]

Voting thread is posted, and I'm sorry Elemental Anathema, but since your table was really messed up I couldn't accept it. Honorary mention, I guess.
Damn it. I was out of town, with no internet. It would have been nice to know... I'd edited the damned thing before I left.

[dman11235]

Get your creative hats back on, the contest returns tomorrow! It's not late (really...I swear...), I'm just staggering it 5 days off the first of the month (just for you Vorpal!). Also, the creation time will be upped to 25 days. From now on the contests will be ending on the last of the month (usually), and voting will end 5 days into the next challenge (usually). Voting doesn't end until midnight btw....really things end when I close them in case you've missed it.

[dman11235]

Alrighty then! The new format is:

Submissions from the 10th to the 1st, voting from the 1st to the 10th. No 25 day creation time, I know you guys can handle 20 days.

[Owrtho]

so does unarmed include natural attacks?

Owrtho

[boomwolf]

Fair question. I'd like to know that as well.

Does unarmed also counts magical touch attacks?

Because, if unarmed is only the pure unarmed attacks, then its quite restrictive and its fairly covered up completely by existing classes.

[Bhu]

AN INVADER ZIM QUOTE!!

I somehow must do a class for this...

[dman11235]

Unarmed is unarmed strikes. Did I not use that term in the description? I'll have to edit if I didn't...

EDIT: Yeah, I originally was going to make it just any unarmed combatant, but then realized that that was waaaaay too general a subject. So it's unarmed strikes now. Unarmed....any spell caster, natural attacks (which carry many, many mechanics that it can use), unarmed strike (also very general, but not too general, what I was aiming for). I guess I just didn't change the wording before I posted it.

Note that you could do something like an unarmed strike specialist that uses it in conjunction with natural attacks or something, but the thing is; it has to focus on the unarmed strike, utilizing it in some way to augment battle (not just a "Oh hey, and he can also use an unarmed strike if he wants", but a "His unarmed strikes make his natural attacks better" or something.

[Bhu]

Well...mine's up. It's a VERY rough draft so I still consider it a work in progress as I wrote this at one sitting at 6 am. So I'm sure there are errors and such.

[PinkysBrain]

Full BAB, full saves, more bonus feats than the fighter and class abilities? I'd drop the BAB down to 3/4 at least.

Since it's pretty ridiculous already why not add "or roll a disguise check DC X" to "Gender: Female" :)

[Bhu]

Hehehehehehe

My blood sugar is not so good in the wee hours. I'm in the midst of tweaking it now. :smallredface:

[Bhu]

Well Crap, I didn't get nearly as much time to work as I would've liked. Still I switched some stuff around. Should be finished in time for the contests end tho.

[Egg4christ]

Hey all, this is my first post on any GitP threads, but i've been a fan of the unarmed strike ever since i started Dnd. So, i wanted to run this idea by you to see if it would apply.

I have already created, for a campaign, a class that incorporates the idea of earthbending from Avatar. The Character fights unarmed, with a monk's unarmed damage, but his main powers come in the form of rock walls and rock throwing (magically, or something, he doesn't have to pick them up to throw them.) The throws essentially become ranged unarmed strikes, but doing them draws from a pool of resources, not unlike a ninja's ki pool.

As for the rock walls, the effectively act as immovable tower shields, which everyone can use.
Tell me, decent idea, and does it apply to the current contest?

[PinkysBrain]

Egg4Christ, since no one answered I'll go out on a ledge and say that the class does not have to be a completely original to be entered, but I think it does have to be a prestige class (yours sounds like a base class).

Anyway, my Wuji Priest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5641125&postcount=4) is up. Comments are welcome, also I seek a nice image of a Taoist monk with a necklace of large prayer beads around his neck ... unless I can find one Kenshiro is going up there :)

PS. how do I indent the first line of a paragraph? The browser removes leading whitespace and the indent tag indents the entire paragraph, putting it in a codebox is not really a great alternative.

PPS. for the few Kenshiro fans, if you are wondering about missing abilities it is of course because Kenshiro has clearly taken the epic progression ;)

[boomwolf]

Good to know that both magic and natural attacks are allowed. now working on two variation (one magic, one natural) and will decide later what to post. (like both so far. maybe will do some sort of a hybrid..."arcane claw"?)

[DracoDei]

Combat Nuns should get Weapon Focus (Nunchuck) and/or Greater Weapon Focus (Nunchunk) as bonus feats...

[PinkysBrain]

Hey a new one (and 0 comments about mine :().

Bobmufin52, about the Student of the Black Palm ... it's not customary to add extra attacks from BAB to prestige class progressions (because they don't usually correspond to the point where your character actually crosses the 5 BAB boundaries). I think Deadly Soul is a bit underpowered and overly complex.

Poison use tends to be terribly expensive as well, I think there is an existing PrC which can conjure up temporary poisons to use ... something like that is pretty much necessary for a poison based PrC IMO.

[DracoDei]

I can't claim credit for the feats, but someone came up with some that reduce the creation times and gold costs (with a very slight XP cost to compensate). Look in my extended signature, find the "Snake-blade" then view the whole thread, and look at the FIRST post (which, once again, isn't mine). The feats should be in there.

[Bhu]

Why does the Wuji Priest have to be living?

[PinkysBrain]

To try to make a thematic connection between his channeling of ki and his ability to sneak attack (ie. the better knowledge of living bodies allows him to channel ki better with his own living body). I guess I could try to play that up a bit more in the fluff text ...

[Bobmufin52]

Hey a new one (and 0 comments about mine :().

Bobmufin52, about the Student of the Black Palm ... it's not customary to add extra attacks from BAB to prestige class progressions (because they don't usually correspond to the point where your character actually crosses the 5 BAB boundaries). I think Deadly Soul is a bit underpowered and overly complex.

Poison use tends to be terribly expensive as well, I think there is an existing PrC which can conjure up temporary poisons to use ... something like that is pretty much necessary for a poison based PrC IMO.

Thanks for the BAB info, I'll fix that. ^_^ As for Deadly soul, do you think it would be easier if it was just usable once a day and then dropped the whole "you could possibly poison yourself" thing?

[PinkysBrain]

It would still be underpowered ... the capstone ability should be something flashy, with a name like Deadly Soul I'd expect some type of effect which destroyed the soul of your opponent. A capstone once a day ability on a prestige class should be pretty much a confirmed kill on a failed safe.

PS. I really don't like death attack, it's almost completely useless.

[Bobmufin52]

Hmm... A save or die ability, I might use that instead. Thanks for the idea! Also, you really don't like death attack? I find it one of the best abilities, if used correctly. But if you have any alternate ideas, I'll be glad to hear them. ^_^

[RS14]

Well, the Oaken Sentinel is provisionally finished.

I'd appreciate any advice I can get. I worried that it's overpowered; my friend worried that it's underpowered. I could use a better way to phrase the interaction between Powerful/Overwhelming Build and Large/Huge size. I'm a bit concerned that the capstone may actually weaken the class, and it certainly does for some builds. I'm considering reducing the dexterity penalties. Letting Oaken Sentinel and Monk levels stack for UAS damage? Partially stack? (1/2 Oaken Sentinel+Monk=4d6 damage for a base medium creature at level 20, which doesn't seem unreasonable).

[PinkysBrain]

With improving class abilities it seems convention to just include the progression in the first mention of the ability, I'd also call the abilities something other than plain Unarmed Strike ... so for instance :

Enhanced Unarmed Strike (Su): At 2nd level, an Oaken Sentinel's unarmed strikes are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 6th level her unarmed strikes are also considered to always have the correct alignment for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction.
And then Enhanced Unarmed Strike (magic) and Enhanced Unarmed Strike (aligned) in the class table.

Instead of 3/2 you can put 1½ (copy paste it).

"xor" is a spelling mistake.

I'd leave out "A trampled creature may chose ..." and instead say "this otherwise works like a normal trample attack." with a hyperlink to the SRD definition of trample after the bit on it doing unarmed strike damage ... at the moment you can trample creatures bigger than you, and that's just a bit ridiculous :)

The copy pasting between powerful build and overwhelming build seems a bit ugly, can't you just say he regains his powerful build ability? Also the "large" and "huge" size names for abilities imply he starts at medium, which is not necessarily correct (and stuff will get completely wacky with polymorph and wild shape of course).

I think the plant type conversion is fine, sure for very few characters it might mean a downgrade ... but taking a class which essentially turns them into a Treant would be unlikely to fit them thematically anyway.

How about some flavour text to indicate his skin slowly takes on the appearance of bark as he gains levels?

"although you will likely have low AC" this is not really true, the natural armor increase offsets the size increase and you have all the options others have to increase your AC.

At the moment the class does need something to make his unarmed strikes better though ... being huge is nice and all, but he is better off wielding a greatsword. So yeah, Unarmed Strike as the monk class feature with level stacking for determining damage at level 1 makes sense.

[RS14]

Thanks for your suggestions, they're very much appreciated. I've implemented them. :smallsmile:

I believe my entry is now complete.

[PinkysBrain]

Hey another one made it in ... I guess I'll comment again since no one else is doing it :(

thegurullamen :

You forgot Ex/Su classifiers on abilities.

"Monastic Training" this is just nasty, traditional monk prestige classes give a subset of monk abilities and let you stack your monk levels for those abilities, this way the prestige class is mostly independent of how you get into it. By improving only abilities you have if you had taken levels in monk it essentially makes it a monk prestige class ... because it's far less powerful for anyone else.

"Tactician" lacks rules (ie. what is a battlefield?). I'd just turn it into a bonus you get if you spend the last 24 hours on a given plane of existence, bonus isn't that large that this would make it imbalanced and it fits the theme.

"Planar Leap" a bit complex, why not just skip the speed boost and allow him make a jump without counting his movement to his total move for the round? (Bypassing all intervening obstacles and allow him to make a jump during a charge etc.) It's a bit more powerful, but I don't think it's overpowered and I think it's a bit more internally consistent than the speed boost.

"Twisting Flurry" very nice ability, class defining really ... comes a bit late though.

"Slip the Bonds" you don't ignore gravity on the astral plane, I would reword that and say "may treat gravity as subjective directional gravity as if he were on the astral plane". Also doesn't mention the action it takes.

"Peerless Tactician", again ... what constitutes a battlefield? I'd just go with planar adaption like above, cut the planar adaption time down to 1 hour.

"Astral Freedom" meh, you probably already get it 6 times a day ... having it on continuously is okay, but is it really a great capstone?

All in all I think the class is a bit underpowered.

[dman11235]

Okay, that's it. I've been trying to get on GitP for the last week and a half, and really, since this is the last thing I still come here for, I'm done. The servers must hate me or something, since every time I tried to get on I couldn't due to slow servers. But do not fret! The contest will continue! But not here. The boards here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/) have been my new home, and I will start up a PrC contest here on the first of next month. The only problem is that the table code sucks (I've been trying to find new table code so it's more like the code here, but I've not found anything). Good bye, and good gaming. Hope to see you over at BG for the contests. And maybe the arena too? I run the homebrew arena there, and we desperately need more players.

[thegurullamen]

That sucks. I'm frustrated with the forums as well, but I guess I'm not ready to jump ship yet. Good luck, dman and godspeed.[/godthatwascheesy]
EDIT: Huh, just now noticed Pinkysbrain's complaints/critiques. Well past the point where they'd be useful. This is what I get for not reading this thread more.

Does anyone want to step up and run the contest since it's otherwise effectively over here?

[ErrantX]

I'd be up for starting a new prestige class contest thing. I'll work up some ideas and I'll post something for the next GitP Prestige Class Contest next week.

Good gaming Dman, you'll be missed :)

-X

[Prime32]

That sucks. I'm frustrated with the forums as well, but I guess I'm not ready to jump ship yet. Good luck, dman and godspeed.[/godthatwascheesy]
Jump ship? Plenty of people frequent both, myself included.

Since dman neglected to post a link to the relevant thread... (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3666.0) :smalltongue:

Also, join the arena - we have our own section of the boards (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?board=67.0) (the mods are very gracious :smallbiggrin:)

[Me_Grog]

I also frequent both. (Notsomuch frequent here, just lurk) Its a great crowd over there.

SixthDeclension

[dman11235]

Jump ship? Plenty of people frequent both, myself included.

Since dman neglected to post a link to the relevant thread... (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3666.0) :smalltongue:

Also, join the arena - we have our own section of the boards (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?board=67.0) (the mods are very gracious :smallbiggrin:)

That would be because I hadn't made that thread yet. And since it's not the actual contest, I didn't think it important.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I managed to resist the temptation of posting a previously made class in the last contest, but this one might be irresistible... I've got soooo many classes that fit into this category that I love.

[ErrantX]

I managed to resist the temptation of posting a previously made class in the last contest, but this one might be irresistible... I've got soooo many classes that fit into this category that I love.

Heh, awesome. I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with. :)

-X

[Bhu]

This gives me a chance to try out something Ive been meaning to do for a while.


And it'll be my first PrC for a horror campaign :D

[Lord_Gareth]

Excellent, shapeshifters! Expect my entry at some point ^_^

[Lord_Gareth]

Alright, my class is up and (mostly) complete. Can I get a PEACH, ya'll, or is that against the rules?

[DracoDei]

You would THINK it was with how little people actually post sometimes... but it certainly isn't for VT's contest, and if it is here, it shouldn't be. P.E.A.C.H. is one of the most basic motivations for these contests... because people are going to have to vote to make it work, they are going to have to consider the relative merits of the entries. If they are going to do that, why not do it a little (or a lot) earlier, and give some feedback? Those more selfish but still honest, might point out flaws to increase peoples of their own work (I wouldn't know...).

[Lord_Gareth]

Well then Draco, can I get some critique? I've got everything up BUT the sample encounter (which will take a bit for me to do - I need to get ahold of my BoED), and I could use some opinions.

[boomwolf]

Gareth, that is some impressive piece of work. but I plan on taking you down.

Won't be easy tough, excellent work as always.

Slight peaching is that "Sanguine Feast" is overpowered, healing equal to damage at will? this makes a dual with any other melee character extremely easy as you might heal for dozens of hp a round. the ability has to be limited somehow. (once per round, announced before attack roll might be good.)

[Lord_Gareth]

Thank'ee! The edit shall be made with GREAT JUSTICE.

I, ah, seem to have misplaced my PhB/DMG. Can someone inform me of the standard wealth for a 10th level character? That's all I need for my sample encounter.

[DracoDei]

Lord Gareth: I was trying to come up with a good idea and was having a pretty hard time of it, and didn't want to be sucked into copy-catting your work so that is why I didn't look at your entry yet... I have now decided to go with my first idea afterall, since I think I can make it a good entry in the end... yes, I really am going to do Animorph!