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View Full Version : Charismatic Criminal Mastermind [build]



Xyk
2008-06-01, 10:37 PM
The title says it. I want to make a young, charismatic criminal mastermind for my campaign. None of the PC classes fit at all. He really needs to have little powers of his own, but definitely makes use of the leadership feat. He probably won't make his presence known to the PCs yet, due to the fact that they are level 1. What's a good build for that?

It will be a bard.

Howabout feats?
1 Bard-Deceptive Spell, ???
2 Bard-----Assume Quirk
3 Bard-???
4 Bard-----Social Recovery
5 Bard
6 Bard-Leadership-----Conceal Spellcasting
7 Bard
8 Virtuoso-----Second Impression
9 Virtuoso-Disguise Spell
10 Virtuoso-----Swift concentration?

The Necroswanso
2008-06-01, 10:38 PM
Something Psionic maybe.

Solo
2008-06-01, 10:40 PM
What kind of powers are we talking about here?

Xyk
2008-06-01, 10:46 PM
I'd like it to be so the average grizzly bear could kill him, but not 4 heavily armed adventurers, so maybe enchantment kinds of things, or something. Maybe a sorcerer with almost exclusively enchantment spells.

I do not use Psionics due to the fact that the PCs were only allowed core for this campaign. This will be the BBEG and a sort of conspiracy operator, but pretty much human.

SadisticFishing
2008-06-01, 10:49 PM
Human Sorcerer with enchantment/illusion spells, or Beguiler (PHB2). Either works well.

Solo
2008-06-01, 10:49 PM
I'd like it to be so the average grizzly bear could kill him, but not 4 heavily armed adventurers, so maybe enchantment kinds of things, or something. Maybe a sorcerer with almost exclusively enchantment spells.

Maybe a Beguiler?

Hairb
2008-06-01, 10:51 PM
I'd like it to be so the average grizzly bear could kill him, but not 4 heavily armed adventurers, so maybe enchantment kinds of things, or something. Maybe a sorcerer with almost exclusively enchantment spells.

I do not use Psionics due to the fact that the PCs were only allowed core for this campaign. This will be the BBEG and a sort of conspiracy operator, but pretty much human.

I would suggest the Beguiler (PHBII, I think) but if want to go core only that isn't really an option. Sorceror, then, I guess.
What about a bard, who uses magic poetry instead of music. People might think he's just a guy who quotes a lot of obscure lines and has an usually piercing stare.

Xyk
2008-06-01, 11:01 PM
the bard is an interesting idea, with changed fluff. The sound of his voice causes fascination, bolstering effects, etc.

An interesting idea.

Edit: Plus my group would be like "zomg we got killed by a bard!" and kill themselves.

Hairb
2008-06-01, 11:03 PM
the bard is an interesting idea, with changed fluff. The sound of his voice causes fascination, bolstering effects, etc.

An interesting idea.

Let me know how it turns out. I've always thought a non-musical bard might have potential.

Solo
2008-06-02, 12:22 AM
Let me know how it turns out. I've always thought a non-musical bard might have potential.

You mean like the Battledancer (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=55571)?

Jayngfet
2008-06-02, 12:29 AM
If he beats them go...


You've been hit by, you've been struck by, a smooth criminal


I say go with bard, maybe with rouge levels.

Suzuro
2008-06-02, 01:04 AM
You've been hit by, you've been struck by, a smooth criminal


Seconded!


-Suzuro

Xyk
2008-06-02, 09:37 AM
Alright, bard it is. What about good feats? I'd like it to be human, and probably like 10th level.

Leadership is a must at 6th level, if there is any improved leadership that he can take before level 10, that would be in. He will make use of skill tricks, and I might allow the players to as well, I'm not sure.

Scintillatus
2008-06-02, 09:38 AM
Seconded on Beguiler, btw.

Blanks
2008-06-02, 10:00 AM
A different approach im thinking about for my own campaign:

The BBEG is ... a commoner.
He is truly the mastermind, not the "end of level baddie". He has powerful henchmen, but no powers of his own. You miss the "final battle", but instead you get a really original and very realistic villain.

quiet1mi
2008-06-02, 04:13 PM
a beguiler is powerful due to his ability to take combatants out of the fight and bring civilians into a fight... not to mention his ability to waste the parties resources on images that do not exist... minions are always more powerful when they have the element of surprise and the players think that they are "just another illusion"... you could also have him be the right hand man to the bard too...

enchantment and illusion are quite deadly if the players draw the wrong conclusions.

"oh the Npc that you thought was "broken free" from my influence is in fact still following my orders"...:smallamused:

quiet1mi
2008-06-02, 04:41 PM
A beguiler is powerful due to his ability to take combatants out of the fight and bring civilians into a fight...

not to mention his ability to waste the parties resources on images that do not exist...

minions are always more powerful when they have the element of surprise and the players think that they are "just another illusion"...

you could also have him be the right hand man to the bard too...

enchantment and illusion are quite deadly if the players draw the wrong conclusions.


Xantos Gambit #1
"oh the Npc that you thought was "broken free" from my influence is in fact still following my orders"...:smallamused:


super bad thing to do to them
charm/dominate people lose to them (family members,friends,people they met) and send them to fight the heroes, also you could disguise the minions to look like the family members of the heroes... ugh having to kill my grandmother for the nth time is really depleting my will to fight...

cupkeyk
2008-06-02, 05:04 PM
I third or fourth the bard. I suggest taking half-elf, for the skill bonuses and the half-elf bard substitution level in races of destiny. Calm emotions against a diplomacy check is almost impossible to beat even with a high will guy like a cleric or druid.

Take perform (oratory) which fits your fluff better.

Bard8>Mindbender1>Virtuoso1>Sublime Chord1>Virtuoso+9

Get the spell Lingering Chorus, the feat Lingering Song and the sword Crystal Echoblade. You can now fascinate/soothing voice four people which gives you enough time to buff (if you take Melodic Casting ) or escape or just give that awesome monologue that you have written down for him.

I can't remember which book has it but there are rules somewhere about worsening a crowd's reaction to characters, cityscape maybe. Your bad bard goes to town, disguises himself and spreads atrocities about the characters enhancuing their chances at fights, raising the prices of goods or simply being refused service.

As final boss battle, i suggest the bard lets the pc's chase him into an orphanage and the pc's must fight some thirty armed children who are hell bent into protecting their "friend".

Xyk
2008-06-02, 06:36 PM
Mindbender 1 is useless for this character design. Nor does sublime chord. Virtuoso is good, though. I think he is gonna be like a secret, magic hitler. He attacks half-breeds, so half-elf is out.

cupkeyk
2008-06-02, 06:59 PM
Evil Hitler? That's a Charlatan (Complete Divine) with Perform (Oratory). Convert, Divide and Conquer. No caster levels though.

Xyk
2008-06-03, 10:12 AM
A) there is no charlatan in complete divine.
B) lingering song only works for buffs.
C) I still need like 4 feats.
D) Where is melodic casting?

Xyk
2008-06-03, 01:15 PM
i've decided that his followers do not know he has any sort of magical powers. Are there any good feats/items that disguise magic? I've got some good skill tricks for that.

Also, without magic items but his 2 stat points from levels added, here are his stats.

Str 10
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 20
Wis 14
Cha 18

PaladinBoy
2008-06-03, 01:29 PM
I remember two metamagic feats in Cityscape, Deceptive Spell and Invisible Spell. Each was a one level increase, as I recall. The first allowed the caster to change the origin point of his spell, for example, to have his lightning bolt come out of a doorway across the street as opposed to his hands. The second should be fairly self-explanatory.

Using a bard that focuses on poetry or oratory, as some others have suggested, should allow the casting of any spells to be concealed. It's much easier to hide a random line of poetry than a song.

How about the magic aura (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm) spell? He should be able to cast it, and it allows him to hide magic auras of ongoing effects or his items.

monty
2008-06-03, 01:31 PM
Give him the Evil Mastermind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51026) template.

Xyk
2008-06-03, 01:54 PM
I'm pretty sure there is a feat that allows you to disguise your spell in a bardic music performance. That combined with still spell would be great. He would just recite a little poetry and cast charm person or even deep slumber at the same time. Deceptive spell is good, along with the conceal casting skill trick. "I'm pretty sure that cat just summoned a dretch, while that innocent bystander was busy sleeping"

cupkeyk
2008-06-03, 05:15 PM
My mistake, the PRc is called an evangelist. the fuff don't fit well but you can revise it into a charismatic orator who drives people into his own beliefs.

Melodic casting is in complete mage.

Feat suggestions is Deceptive Spell(Citycape), Disguise Spell(Complete Adventurer), Invisible Spell (Cityscape)


I'm pretty sure there is a feat that allows you to disguise your spell in a bardic music performance. That combined with still spell would be great. He would just recite a little poetry and cast charm person or even deep slumber at the same time. Deceptive spell is good, along with the conceal casting skill trick. "I'm pretty sure that cat just summoned a dretch, while that innocent bystander was busy sleeping"

That feat is dusguise spell from Complete adventurer, but its available in the SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divineFeats.html)

quiet1mi
2008-06-03, 08:48 PM
No half elf... spells can be identified and dispelled but pure bluff,intimidate,and diplomacy can not be detected by sense motive and wreck the party morale as everywhere the bard goes, the party is dispised,hated and subject to hostile attacks from commoners...

Ps:great idea with the orphanage as the setting for the final battle... nothing is more evil than sending thirty armed children to attack the party...

PPs:Let the villain do dastardly things... make the party HATE him and want to kill him bad enough to justify spilling the blood of the innocent in order to get to him... and if they go far enough down the slippery slope of morality then have the Bard congratulate the heroes for being just as evil as He is... Deals with devils for power or an opportunity to kill the bard for pieces of the players soul is always plus...


A wizard or sorcerer villain will just turn you to dust or melt you
A barbarian or fighter villain will just hack and slash you
A ranger or Druid villain will send animals to attack you and hunt you relentlessly
A rouge or monk villain will kill you in your sleep

But the Bard villain will make you do great evils,justify them and warp you and your soul into doing his bidding.

Xyk
2008-06-03, 10:00 PM
A wizard or sorcerer villain will just turn you to dust or melt you
A barbarian or fighter villain will just hack and slash you
A ranger or Druid villain will send animals to attack you and hunt you relentlessly
A rouge or monk villain will kill you in your sleep

But the Bard villain will make you do great evils,justify them and warp you and your soul into doing his bidding.


I love it. Absolutely amazing. I'm gonna steal it for my sig. Also I believe he will try to convert them to the "dark side".

quiet1mi
2008-06-03, 10:07 PM
♪"As long as I have credit for the wit, you may steal every bit."♫™:smalltongue:

Xyk
2008-06-03, 10:19 PM
It was too long and my spoilers didn't work for whatever reason

I think it was too many characters. sorry...