Gaming PC. Need Help!

[Myatar_Panwar]

So I've got a birthday coming up, and my parents say they are willing to either buy me a new graphics card, or go in for half for a new computer. My current computer is an EMachine with 1G of RAM, a 3400 Athlon 64 Processor, and a ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics card (also Windows XP). And I have no idea what most of that means.

Basically, I'm looking to be able to play some games on the PC. I can hardly play Team Fortress 2, but its on the lowest quality and I still lag like crazy. And Ive always wanted to get some other RPG's for it, but it could never handle it (Oblivion, KotOR, etc).

So what is it that I need exactly? Will a new graphics card do it? Or am I going to need some more RAM? Would it be better just to purchase a new computer? Any suggestions on graphics cards, etc? I am very noob when it comes to this sort of thing, thus I come to you guys for help.

Don't let me down :smallsmile:.

Edit: More complicated specs: CPU
-AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3400+
-Core Voltage 1.5V
-Core Speed (Clock speed?): almost 2.4 GHz
-x12 Multiplier
-199 MHz Bus Speed

Mainboard
-ATI Xpress 200 chipset
-Southbridge (?): ATI SB400

Memory
-Type: DDR
-Size 1024 MB
-Single channel
-DRAM Frequency: 199 MHz
-FSB:DRAM - CPU/12
-CL: 3 clocks
-tRCD: 3 clocks
-tRP: 3 clocks
-cycle time (tRAS): 8 clocks
-Bank cycle time (tRC): 11 clocks
-Command Rate: 1T
-DRAM Idle timer: 16 clocks

[ObadiahtheSlim]

First off, does your computer have a PCI-Ex16 slot in it? You may need to look into the documentation that came with your computer, or if you are computer savvy enough, you can open it up and look. picture (http://www.geeks.com/techtips/2006/Images/motherboard.gif) of different PCI slots for comparison.

If you have one, great. I'd recommend a GeForce Card. If you are on a budget, the 8600 series aren't too shabby. If you want to spend a bit more, the 8800 and 8900 series are even better.

However you may come across another limiting factor. Your power supply. High end video cards draw a lot of power and your power supply may not have enough watts to support it. If you put your new video card in and you computer starts acting funky, you have a pretty good chance of your power supply not having a high enough wattage. In that case its time to upgrade the whole thing.

[Bleen]

I would propose he upgrade the whole damn thing. He wants at least 2GB RAM, a dual-core processor, something in the nVidia 8600 series at least...

Of course, I would take most things I have to say about computers with a grain of salt..

[warty goblin]

This is dependant entirely on just how much your parents are willing to spend on 'half a computer' and how much you are willing to spend.

If both of these numbers are over about $300 however then I'd go for the new comp, certainly if they pass $500. The things you really need to buy are the graphics card, processor and motherboard. Another gig of ram is also a good idea, but I'd only buy one and then loot the other gig from the old computer. Video card wise, something in the nVidia 8000 series is probably good, the 8800 series is pretty affordible atm IIRC, and a good, if not great card (says the guy running 7900). Processor you definately want a dual core beasty, preferably with a clock speed over 2.3ghz, since some games, particularly console ports, aren't terribly well optimized for dual cores and so still require egregiously fast processors. Motherboard just get whatever makes all of the other stuff fit.

[Erloas]

The easiest thing to do at this point is download CPU-Z and run it, then either take some screenshots of the pages and post them somewhere for us to look at or I think they have an export specs option that should give a text/html document you should be able to post here.

Once we have a better idea of what you have it makes it a lot easier to suggest improvements. It does entirely depend on your budget too. $500 is a decent starting point for a capable (but of course not great) budget gaming system. Anything less pretty much means you have to just upgrade what you have. It might be possible to reuse some old pieces too, but most of what you reuse won't save a huge amount, maybe down to $350-400, but in those cases its almost worth it to build a new system and have a second one still usable for non-gaming.

[Cainen]

I would propose he upgrade the whole damn thing. He wants at least 2GB RAM, a dual-core processor, something in the nVidia 8600 series at least...

And to compensate for that, a new cooling system, a new motherboard, and a new PSU...

[valadil]

I have a comparable CPU (Athlon64 3000+) and can run TF2 just fine with it. Definitely get more RAM. Not sure about your video card. I use a GeForce7800 (my motherboard is AGP and as far as I know this is the best AGP card out there) and it serves me well, though it has definitely been showing its age lately.

[Triaxx]

You're better off building one, instead of buying it. It runs cheaper, and you exactly the computer you want.

3btech.net has a good deals and best of all, free shipping. Compare what you can buy to what you can build.

[Forthork]

Well, the ATI Radeon Xpress 200 is not actually a graphics card, it is basically a chip that uses your CPU as a graphics card. These are terrible for any 3D application. That chip is supposed to be on motherboards with a PCI-e slot (the newer slot), but some may have AGP (the older slot). If you have a PCI-e slot on your motherboard, it may be worth it to upgrade your graphics card. Otherwise, a new computer would be a good consideration. The Radeon 3850, which is the best AGP card, and a decent, well-priced PCI-e card, is about the best card you would be able to get that would not be significantly held back by your CPU (the AGP version of the card is ~$170, the PCI-e is ~$110). Unfortunately, the combination of the two is not enough to power newer games at high detail, although TF2 would play great. If you were to buy a new computer, I would recommend at least an Intel Core 2 Duo 2.2 Ghz or an AMD Athlon X2 2.4 Ghz, at least 2 gigabytes of DDR2 RAM, and (making sure the board has a PCI-e card) buy a Radeon HD 3850 or a GeForce 8800GS (both close to $100 at newegg.com and perform very closely). You will save the most money buy not getting a graphics card from the company you buy the computer from (they will come with an onboard card like your Radeon Xpress, that you can use before you get a new card).

[Zarrexaij]

You're better off building one, instead of buying it. It runs cheaper, and you exactly the computer you want.I second this motion. Especially since you got an eMachine (ewww).

For Oblivion, you will definitely need more memory. The problem with getting a good video card is the chance your power supply might not be able to handle it (as explained). If that is the case, there is also a similar chance you will have to go with a proprietary replacement power supply, which cost tons more than third party power supplies. Overall using proprietary companies like Dell and HP are good if you want to stick with the same PC for years, but if you're a serious gamer or PC enthusiast it is much better to home build so there is more room for upgrade.

[Myatar_Panwar]

I second this motion. Especially since you got an eMachine (ewww).

Yeah, I didn't have any clue as to what I was doing when I got it a few years ago. Just figured "Hey, thats cheap, and it has all of these pretty computer stats on the side. 1G of ram. Sweet that sounds like alot." It also didn't help that Best Buy took advantage of my little knowledge and told me "hey! This is a great Gaming Computer!" Either that or they were as lost as I was.

So I will take into consideration all that has been said (and attempt to translate the unfamiliar vocabulary. Yeah, does anyone know anywhere on the web that could essentially teach me some computer know-how. Just the essentials, without it this all seems very overwhelming. I don't want to end up buying another EMachine because of my own stupidity), and maybe later post some deeper specs (Once I figure out how to do that).

[Forthork]

The basics are easy. You need a motherboard, which nowadays should have a PCI-e slot for a graphics card (it can come with two slots, but the advantage of two cards over one more powerful card is generally not worth it) and slots for DDR2 RAM (DDR3 is much more expensive, and for current computers offers little benefit). It will either have a socket LGA-775 (for Intel processors) or socket AM2/AM2+ (for AMD processors). Either brand is good for processors, generally AMD has better performance for budget computers, but Intel also has some very good, cheap processors. The graphics card can be worked out depending on budget and current deals (both brands, nVidia and ATi, have the multiple cards in the mainstream $100-$200 range). Today, you want to use SATA Hard-drives and disk drives. So, first you want to pick out a CPU. Based on that, you pick a motherboard that can support it (there are a few more details than just socket type), make sure the board has PCI-e, DDR2, and SATA ports (which all modern boards should have). As long as it is a quality motherboard, there should be no (or very few) compatibility issues with different types of RAM and graphics cards. About the RAM, you just have to make sure it is the proper speed. Then, you can get a case, hard-drive, and DVD drive. All new power supplies are compatible with all new components, so just make sure (and I cannot stress this enough) that it is a quality power supply, and you are done. You can get a new monitor, and it is probably a good idea to buy a new copy of windows this time. It really is simpler than it sounds.

[Triaxx]

SATA disk drives aren't nearly so important as SATA Hard Drives. I'm perfectly happy with an IDE DVD drive, since I rarely use less than a full install.

My gaming computer ran right around $500 sans video card.

600w powersupply.
52x32x52x16 CDRW DVD drive
Case
250 GB SATA HD
Athlon 64 Dual Core 4200+
Motherboard Combo
1GB RAM
Windows XP 64-bit

Total=496.96

Of course, the on-board video isn't the best in the world, but I have the option for a PCI-e upgrade. It's not SLI capable though. *shrug* I don't care about graphics enough for it to matter anyway.

[factotum]

Of course, the on-board video isn't the best in the world, but I have the option for a PCI-e upgrade. It's not SLI capable though. *shrug* I don't care about graphics enough for it to matter anyway.

Yes, but he's specifically asking for a gaming PC, so presumably graphics DO matter to him--on-board graphics just don't cut it for games, unless you only play stuff that was released 5 years ago or more!

[Myatar_Panwar]

Yes, but he's specifically asking for a gaming PC, so presumably graphics DO matter to him--on-board graphics just don't cut it for games, unless you only play stuff that was released 5 years ago or more!

Well graphics definatly aren't my first priority, but even on the lowest settings I'm still having problems running the games. Although that might just be because of my power supply, I'm still not sure how all of this works.

[valadil]

Well graphics definatly aren't my first priority, but even on the lowest settings I'm still having problems running the games. Although that might just be because of my power supply, I'm still not sure how all of this works.

The power supply is either enough for your machine or it isn't. It was mentioned because there was concern that if you upgrade your video your power supply may not be able to handle the new card. Beefier video cards require more and more power (I wouldn't buy anything below a 500 watt, minimum). Cheap PCs without real video cards tend to have weaker power supplies in the 250-300 watt range.

You might want to start reading Ars Technica. I don't know if they have anything for someone just getting started, but their reports are comprehensive and well written.

[tyckspoon]

Well graphics definatly aren't my first priority, but even on the lowest settings I'm still having problems running the games. Although that might just be because of my power supply, I'm still not sure how all of this works.

Your biggest problem is almost certainly your (lack of) graphics card. One of the most fundamental truisms of PC gaming is that on-board graphics suck. Even if you do end up getting a completely new computer (not a bad idea if you find good prices on the components or a good deal on a pre-built; it'll be a fair upgrade.) you'll need to budget for a card if you want to do much gaming with it.

Assuming you haven't added much extra to the machine (more hard/disk drives, fans, etc) your default power supply probably has enough capacity to take a lower-end card (and a modern low-end or mainstream-class card [100-150$ or so, depending on source] will run the games you've mentioned so far very well).

[Erloas]

Well rather then repeating a lot of work that has been done in other places I'm just going to link to a guide that I and other people from WarhammerAlliance.com have been working on.

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38651

We have a couple different costs and some room for adjustments.




As for the IDE DVD drive... if you are going to buy a new drive go SATA. Sure IDE isn't going to make much of a difference but the difference in cost is like $2. While IDE is still holding on, it is starting to disappear off of more motherboards. It is also nice being able to run a SATA cable rather then an IDE cable inside the case.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Well I ran CPU-Z, and let me tell you what turned up. Tell me if I missed anything important. Oh and I do have a PCI port.
CPU
-AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3400+
-Core Voltage 1.5V
-Core Speed (Clock speed?): almost 2.4 GHz
-x12 Multiplier
-199 MHz Bus Speed

Mainboard
-ATI Xpress 200 chipset
-Southbridge (?): ATI SB400

Memory
-Type: DDR
-Size 1024 MB
-Single channel
-DRAM Frequency: 199 MHz
-FSB:DRAM - CPU/12
-CL: 3 clocks
-tRCD: 3 clocks
-tRP: 3 clocks
-cycle time (tRAS): 8 clocks
-Bank cycle time (tRC): 11 clocks
-Command Rate: 1T
-DRAM Idle timer: 16 clocks

Need anything else? Not sure about what else to include (SPD and Cache?)
Also, whats the difference between DDR, DDR2, and DDR3? I looked it up on Wikipedia, but still dont really get it. For instance, whats the difference in having 1G of DDR SDRAM, and having 1G of DDR2 SDRAM?

Edit: And Erloas, that guide you linked is looking awesome so far.

[Destro_Yersul]

My computer works fine for pretty much everything I've installed on it so far, up to and including Sins of a Solar Empire. It's three years old and the only upgrades I've made to date are a GeForce 8500 and an extra 512mb RAM. I'm running Windows XP on an AMD Athlon 64 3000+.

Didn't cost me much either, considering the computer was a gift and the card and RAM I got from a part supplier rather than somewhere like Best Buy.

[Forthork]

SATA disk drives aren't nearly so important as SATA Hard Drives. I'm perfectly happy with an IDE DVD drive, since I rarely use less than a full install.

My gaming computer ran right around $500 sans video card.

600w powersupply.
52x32x52x16 CDRW DVD drive
Case
250 GB SATA HD
Athlon 64 Dual Core 4200+
Motherboard Combo
1GB RAM
Windows XP 64-bit

Total=496.96

Of course, the on-board video isn't the best in the world, but I have the option for a PCI-e upgrade. It's not SLI capable though. *shrug* I don't care about graphics enough for it to matter anyway.

Ide or SATA doesn't make a difference for DVD drives in terms of performance, but they are near the same price, and SATA cables are much easier to deal with. Onboard graphics are no good, even if you don't care what the game looks like, as they hog RAM, CPU cycles, and can barely play games. Even a cheap, $20 card would blow onboard away (unless you get one of the nice AMD 780G chipsets, which basically have a very low-end card onboard, though still not enough for gaming).

"Also, whats the difference between DDR, DDR2, and DDR3?"
Basically, they are faster. But it does not mean that faster RAM always gives recognizable performance bonuses. Basically, everything in your system is run through a certain speed determined by the processors Front Side Bus. Most importantly, this determines your CPU speed. The FSB is the processors base bus speed (199 [which means 200] for your processor) x4. That base speed determines how fast your RAM can be. It can be faster, but doesn't help much if your processor cannot use that extra speed. So for DDR 1, 2, or 3, it is the rated speed divided by two (DDR stands for Dual Data Rate). So, DDR goes up to (I think) 400Mhz, DDR2 up to 800 (some go higher, but are the same chips, factory overclocked), and DDR3 has not reached its limit yet. Today's processor only go up to 1600Mhx FSB (400Mhz bus speed, or equal to DDR2 800) and those are the high end, so there is really no need for DDR3 yet. I think AMD may go higher, even so there is DDR2-1066, which like I said is just DDR2 800 set to run at higher speeds.

In short, definitely go for DDR2, it is the cheapest and is fast enough.

"The power supply is either enough for your machine or it isn't. It was mentioned because there was concern that if you upgrade your video your power supply may not be able to handle the new card. Beefier video cards require more and more power (I wouldn't buy anything below a 500 watt, minimum). Cheap PCs without real video cards tend to have weaker power supplies in the 250-300 watt range."
Yes, and no. The power supply could be fine for a machine at idle, but too stressed at load. A good 450 watt power supply is fine, considering it does not look like the OP will be using a crazy graphics card and a quad-core CPU. Make sure the brand is good (there is a chart somewhere online), a cheap 500 watt would be much worse than a good 400 watt.

Which brings up another issue, dual vs quad. Generally, a dual core would be better suited to this kind of computer, as they have faster speeds per price, and very few programs use more than 2 cores (few even use two). Basically, if you are going to spend more than $250, go for an Intel Core 2 Quad processor; between $150 and $250, an Intel Core 2 Duo, and below that, an AMD Athlon X2.

[Triaxx]

The onboard in question is a Geforce 6150 SE and I have yet to find anything it won't play. I do mostly play older games, but it plays GRAW and Supreme Commander. There is some video lag on them, but it's workable.

So if you want to game, assume another hundred bucks. (Incidentally, I've seen video cards that cost more than the entire computer I listed. So keep that in mind.)

[Myatar_Panwar]

I'm probably just going to end up upgrading my current machine. But am unsure about many things:
1. How do I know if my motherboard is compatible with all the stuff I'll be purchasing, is there a way to check? An example would be buying 2x1G DDR2 SDRAM, even though I know my computer is currently only using DDR1 (would it be compatible?). Or getting a dual core.
2. What would happen to all of the other components if I were to purchase a new processor, RAM, and video card (possibly also motherboard if needed)? Meaning, how do I know if the other stuff is not directly connected to the current stuff, like the built-in graphics card.

I hope all that made some sense.

Edit: Also, what about power supply? How do I know when its too much for my current supply?

[Forthork]

"I'm probably just going to end up upgrading my current machine. But am unsure about many things:
1. How do I know if my motherboard is compatible with all the stuff I'll be purchasing, is there a way to check? An example would be buying 2x1G DDR2 SDRAM, even though I know my computer is currently only using DDR1 (would it be compatible?). Or getting a dual core.
2. What would happen to all of the other components if I were to purchase a new processor, RAM, and video card (possibly also motherboard if needed)? Meaning, how do I know if the other stuff is not directly connected to the current stuff, like the built-in graphics card.

I hope all that made some sense.

Edit: Also, what about power supply? How do I know when its too much for my current supply?"

None of that stuff would be compatible. DDR, 2, and 3, use different slots, and I am willing to bet you have a socket 939 motherboard, which means you can get an Opteron dual-core, which aren't bad processors, but they are extremely rare retail nowadays, and used isn't always safe. If you do upgrade, you can try to sell your old parts. The graphics chip is the only integrated part, and it just becomes disabled. I would honestly just try to sell the computer on Craigslist, and start from scratch, although you would want to do some research first or find a friend who knows about computers. The only things you would be able to save would be disk drive, hard drive, and case (PSU probably won't cut it), maybe windows also, if you have an install CD and not just a system restore. I can recommend some parts if you give me a budget.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Ugh, I was afraid of that. Well so far I was going to go for an Intel Duo Core E8400 (looks around 200 bucks), a Geforce 8800GT (like 150), and 2x1G DDR2 RAM (like 80). And it looks like the total budget is going to be around 600 bucks.

[Forthork]

Very good choices, although you can do a little better on the RAM. Most of these are good brands, just check some reviews. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000170147+1052108080+1052308477+1052416064&name=DDR2+800+(PC2+6400)) $600 is tight if you are including Windows in that, but I would recommend the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128337) for a motherboard. It is around $90, has all the basics, and if very reliable. It is also very popular, so there will be many people to help you resolve issues. Leaves us $150 for case, hard drive, disk drive, and PSU, which can be done, although the hard drive may be small. Case won't be excellent either, but unless you plan to overclock and run multiple high-end video cards, cheap cases don't make much of a difference. I would say $25 for case, $25 for DVD drive, $50 for a hard drive, probably 160 gig, and another $50 for PSU, although this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371006) is a good deal for $30 after rebate.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Hm, that looks pretty good. But I could probably salvage the 200g Hard Drive from my current comp, leaving a bit more space to buy Windows (It came directly with my current comp, thus I do not have the disk for it. Or would it be on the Hard Drive?) But I suppose that if I were to sell the computer altogether, I should just include the hard drive to avoid complications (although, if I did sell it, that would only increase my budget...).

Oh, and I'd just like to thank you Forthork for your help so far. You have helped make this odd and difficult (for me at least) journey a little less painful and a little more insightful. Most people don't have the patience. /shakes hand

[tyckspoon]

hmm. I suppose the basic question is do you want to go through the necessary effort to sell your computer and/or any parts that are left over? If not, there's no reason not to strip it and salvage what you can- probably the hard drive and disk drive, at least. Maybe the case, but it'll be a pretty poor case (pretty much every OEM case I've ever seen has been hard to work in and not very well designed. Because normal consumers don't want to see extra fans in the sides of their boxes or something.) Your hard drive does already have your current copy of Windows on it, which could save you some time and money if you can make it play nice with a new setup.. but attaching it to a new motherboard will probably be read as installing it to a new computer, in which case you'll have to try and track down the right information to prove you did actually buy that computer and the copy of Windows it came with. Buying a standalone copy of Windows is recommended at some point anyway.

If you *are* willing to sell on your current box, leave it intact. It'll sell more easily and likely for a better price.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Ok looks like I hit another road block. Apparently the GeForce 8800 is DirectX 10 exclusive. Now, after a very quick read off of Wikipedia, I gather that DirectX 10 is Vista Exclusive. *sigh Now, I wasn't planning on getting Vista, because I have heard nearly nothing good about it with relation to gaming, and have seen other various comments on how DirectX 10 isn't very supported game-wise. Am I wrong? Also, if I'm not wrong, and Vista really isn't the way to go, what would be the next best card? The 8600?

Edit: Err oh wait. I think I found something saying that they would support both DirectX 10 and 9. They just don't outright mention it I suppose. Maybe its just implied.

[Arang]

There is nothing wrong with 64-bit Vista, either. It'll be essential in a few years, because 32-bit can't use more than 3.5 GB of RAM.

Also, if you do go for an 8800, get the GT. It's much cheaper with a barely noticeable hit in performance.

[Erloas]

All of the Nvidia 8XXX series cards and all of the AMD 2XXX and 3XXX series cards support DX10. They still work perfectly fine in DX9 though so that isn't an issue at all.

Switching your old HD to the new system will require a fresh install of Windows no matter what, too much changes for the OS to keep working. I worked for about 6 months testing motherboards and even with everything else the same and only the MB changing, and all the motherboards being from the same manufacturer just different versions, even then there had to be a fresh install (or in our case a specific image) of windows on most motherboards to work correctly.

If you are going to buy a copy of Windows anyway then you may as well get Vista. Vista has come a long ways since launch and while it is true that it isn't quite as fast as XP in gaming in the majority of cases, especially with new computers rather then old computers that just upgraded, the performance difference isn't really noticable outside of benchmarks. As long as you have a decent amount of RAM (and with RAM as cheap as it is there isn't a good reason not to get enough) you shouldn't have any problems running things with Vista.

There are a number of options for video cards... and later this month there will be more.

[Triaxx]

If you buy the CPU and Motherboard as a combo, you can usually also get matching RAM. That eliminates compatibility problems.

I've heard both very good things and very nasty things about Vista. If you go 64-bit, make sure you have the right drivers for everything. Otherwise it can get ugly.

[Forthork]

Well, it is necessary to have a Windows install disk, whether you keep the HDD or not. If you keep it, a repair install should work (you won't lose any files). You can get your CD key by using programs such as Belarc, and then use almost any CD to install. Be wary that this is not always the case. For a decent price, you should be able to sell your computer without a hard drive/windows. You can definitely salvage the HDD and CD drive, should you be able to hold on to them. I would recommend Vista, as soon things will go Vista exclusive, although there are rumors that the next Windows will come out soon. Don't listen to any of the negative things about Vista, it takes more power to run, so people complain that their 5-year-old systems can't run it fast. On a system like you are looking at, it will be fine. Vista is different than XP, so it will take time to get used to, but it is not worse. DX10 is Vista exclusive, but no games out right now make use of it. The "DX10" effects in Crisis can work in DX9 with a hack. If you are going to sell the majority of your old system, your best bet may be to buy a barebones PC. The components are better than a retail computer, and it comes with a case, motherboard, CPU, and sometimes RAM. This leave a video card, that are always cheaper alone, HDD and disk drive, which you may have. Some have power supplies, some don't, they are denerally cheap ones, so I would say to get a new, quality, one.

[Forthork]

Well, it is necessary to have a Windows install disk, whether you keep the HDD or not. If you keep it, a repair install should work (you won't lose any files). You can get your CD key by using programs such as Belarc, and then use almost any CD to install. Be wary that this is not always the case. For a decent price, you should be able to sell your computer without a hard drive/windows. You can definitely salvage the HDD and CD drive, should you be able to hold on to them. I would recommend Vista, as soon things will go Vista exclusive, although there are rumors that the next Windows will come out soon. Don't listen to any of the negative things about Vista, it takes more power to run, so people complain that their 5-year-old systems can't run it fast. On a system like you are looking at, it will be fine. Vista is different than XP, so it will take time to get used to, but it is not worse. DX10 is Vista exclusive, but no games out right now make use of it. The "DX10" effects in Crisis can work in DX9 with a hack. If you are going to sell the majority of your old system, your best bet may be to buy a barebones PC. The components are better than a retail computer, and it comes with a case, motherboard, CPU, and sometimes RAM. This leave a video card, that are always cheaper alone, HDD and disk drive, which you may have. Some have power supplies, some don't, they are denerally cheap ones, so I would say to get a new, quality, one.

"Oh, and I'd just like to thank you Forthork for your help so far. You have helped make this odd and difficult (for me at least) journey a little less painful and a little more insightful. Most people don't have the patience. /shakes hand"

/shake
No problem, I built my first full computer about a year ago, and have since replaced about everything. I wish I had knew then what I know now, just wanted to pass on the knowledge. I know this all sounds very confusing, but it will pay off in the end. Building a computer was actually very fun for me, although it can be bad if you run into problems. So, if you want to try to get all the parts yourself, and assemble yourself, that is great. This (http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3901234&CatId=2405) may make things easier, although you can save a little money buying separate, and the motherboard/PSU aren't exactly top quality, it is a decent price, and all you have to do is add hard-drive, disk drive, and video card. At $285, or roughly half your budget, you could probably get your parents to buy it for your birthday, which may make them feel a little more secure knowing it is one working part they are buying.I whole-heatedly recommend building a PC, but I do not want to say that, and then have you overwhelmed with $600 worth of parts lying around.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Alright, so heres what I got so far. I am still missing a Disk Drive and a Case though, not really sure what to look for in those fields. And I'm at about 700 bucks so far, would like to spend no more than 60 bucks if possible. Also, so far compatible? Seem appropriately priced? Oh and I don't know whats up with the graphics card. I saw multiple versions of it, all with different tags in the front. I just assumed that was the manufacturer or something (ZOTAC?).

169.99 -Graphics Card: ZOTAC nVidia geForce 8800GT 512mb PCI Express Video card
http://3btech.net/zonvge8851pc.html

131.99 -Processor: Intel Core Duo E7200 Wolfdale 2.53GHz 3MB L2 Cahce LGA 775 gdW Dualcore Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115052

89.99 -Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128337&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Motherboards+-+Intel-_-GIGABYTE-_-13128337

109.99 -Operating System: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SPI 64-bit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116204

29.99 -Power Supply: Antec earthwatts EA430 430W ATX12V v2.0 Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371006

89.99 -Hard Drive: SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152052

84.99 -RAM: 4gb (2x2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122

[Triaxx]

Yeah, nVidia and ATI don't actually manufacture the cards. Personally I like Sapphire myself, but they seem to be ATI only.

[leperkhaun]

Here is my view n PSU (the power supply). Make sure its beefy enough to handle what you got.... and not jus barely. If your system is pushing 400 or so, you wont want to use a 430 watt PSU.

Also do your homework on the PSU. Some of them are real crap. Not only that but if you plan to upgrade, make sure your PSU can handle the upgrades also, that way you arnt buying a new PSU 7 months down the road when you decide to upgrade soemthing (if you do).

One of the most important things to remember about a gaming PC is upgradability. A good gaming PC can be upgraded and can lasat 3-4 years.

[Erloas]

Here is my view n PSU (the power supply). Make sure its beefy enough to handle what you got.... and not jus barely. If your system is pushing 400 or so, you wont want to use a 430 watt PSU.


While I agree with what you are saying, that power supply is plenty for his system. The Antec Earthwatts is a very good line of PSUs.

That system without OCing is probably going to fall into the sub 300W range.
This PSU calculator (http://http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp) estimated somewhere around 270W.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Yeah, I don't think I'll ever overclock my system, so I figured that it would be an ok choice. Its pretty cheep and got good reviews.

[Forthork]

Everything looks good, I would pick this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288) drive over the one you have for the same price, because it has a longer warranty, and is a little faster. The Earthwatts 430 is perfect for what you are using. The card is a good brand and price, I would also consider this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130357) at the same price, only because eVGA has a better warranty, and the cooler looks better. This (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121224) one is 135 after rebate, the cooler is a little better, the only problem is the fan stays at one speed (is quiet though), the other fans will vary in speed depending on heat. Both cards are from Newegg, with free shipping, so you order will all come in together. The RAM seems fine, if you want to save a little money you could go for 2 gigs now, and get more later (your motherboard has four slots), because most games don't need that much currently. Still, the price isn't bad, and 2x2GB sticks are better than 4x1GB sticks.

That was a very nice pick for a first build. Whether or not you follow my above suggestions you will be fine. As for case and disk drive, the DVD drive doesn't really matter, just find a high rated one on Newegg for about 25 bucks. Case is another matter, your system will not generate enough heat where you need an expensive case for ventilation, a quick search I found this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147057) for $40, it seems decent, and it has free shipping, and it comes with a fan. Like I said, the expensive cases aren't necessary for this, just make sure it is ATX compatible, and is full thickness (the DVD drive bays are perpendicular to the case height).

[Triaxx]

http://3btech.net/chdufan600wa.html

Better PSU, ten bucks cheaper. My place is very dusty, but the PSU lasts about a year. If it's less dusty, it'll probably go longer.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Uhh shoot. Just thought of something. What about the soundcard? Is that part of the video card as well or something? Or is it usually packaged with something Ive already listed?

Edit: Oh, well I think I came across a post which stated that motherboards come with sound cards, probally not very good, but good enough for me. A

Also, I am having a hard time finding a Disk Drive, there isnt a general search for them on newegg. and all I can seem to find are "external enclosures", like this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182143 . Is that a disk drive or something? Very confused, and would like to order the components tonight.

[Forthork]

http://3btech.net/chdufan600wa.html

Better PSU, ten bucks cheaper. My place is very dusty, but the PSU lasts about a year. If it's less dusty, it'll probably go longer.

No, worse PSU. That one is junk. A quality 430 watt is better than a crappy 650, and his PC won't even draw 350 watts, so the Earthwatts will be much more efficient.

And the soundcard is on your motherboard. The one on the DS3L is actually very good. DVD drives. (http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=5&name=CD-DVD-Burners)

[Myatar_Panwar]

Oi! Thanks, not sure why it was so hard to find that for me. I think I had the thought in my head that a driver was seperate from a burner.

[Forthork]

The next step, after everything is ordered, will be to learn how to build it. It is very simple once you have components that are compatible (everything you have mentioned was compatible. Just to avoid any confusion later, your motherboard has a PCI-e 1.1 slot, the card is PCI-e 2.0, they are compatible, and there is no difference in performance now). First, you want to put your PSU in the case and plug it in. Then, touch the bare metal of the PSU. This way, you can ground yourself to prevent static discharge on your component, which could damage them. Make sure you do not assemble on a carpet, or walk around on a carpet much while assembling. Your then want to mount your CPU in the motherboard, there will only be one way to do so. Once centered, close the clamp to hold it in place. Then, while the motherboard is still outside, you want to mount the heatsink. The way they are mounted involves pushing plastic pins into holes on the motherboard. The only way to make sure they go though is to check the back. Otherwise, the heatsink won't make proper contact. At this point you can also put in the RAM. Make sure to hook up the fan to the motherboard. Put the standoffs in the case, and then screw in the motherboard. Hard drive and disk drive can go in at this point too. Then hook up the front LEDs and buttons and internal speaker. Now, unplug the PSU and plug in your power cables (to motherboard, and drives). You probably want to push any unused cables out of the way, you can usually fit them behind the motherboard tray. Put the video card in, and plug the cable from the PSU to video card. Hook up monitor, plug computer in and turn on. This is the moment of truth. Pray for that beep. Anyway, I know much of this sounds confusing without seeing the components, so I can go more in depth (and with pictures) later. Just think about this, and make sure you are ready to try.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Alright, WOOTZ! It (they) have been ordered. It was a bit more than I was hoping it would cost (600) and turned out to be around 780. Then the tax came and I was at 860. But I guess there is still the rebates, in the end the total cost will be around 800 bucks. Not bad. And yes, Forthork, that does sound confusing without having the components in front of me, Lol.

[Triaxx]

The PSU is actually good quality, it's just that it's vulnerable to dust. I have four big dogs, and heat with wood. Plus it's very dry in the summer.

Besides, some is good, more is better, and too much isn't quite sufficient.

[Erloas]

The PSU is actually good quality, it's just that it's vulnerable to dust. I have four big dogs, and heat with wood. Plus it's very dry in the summer.

Besides, some is good, more is better, and too much isn't quite sufficient.

Lasting only a year, even in a poor environement, is not the signs of a high quality power supply. Vulnerable to dust means that it has heat issues and can be fairly eaisly killed by excess heat, caused by poor air circulation because of the dust. The loss of airflow is always a problem in any power supply, but a good supply shouldn't fail in most cases under those circumstances, maybe if your ambient temperature was also 130deg, but unless you are using your computer outside in Arizona in the summer that shouldn't be an issue.

One thing simply with the power, that 650W power supply has 34A available on 12V line, the 430W Earthwatts has 30A available on the 12V line. The 12V line is by far the most important value on a power supply. So that supply has 230W higher rating and only 40W more usable power. The Antec is also an 80+ power supply and I doubt the CheifMax is since it doesn't say, and loosing an extra 10% effeciency will more then make up for the $10 difference in power usage.

[Forthork]

The PSU is actually good quality, it's just that it's vulnerable to dust. I have four big dogs, and heat with wood. Plus it's very dry in the summer.


The Earthwatts has two +12v rails at 17 amps, that El Cheapo 650 watt has 34 amps on one rail. So, the actually usable power is about the same, you can roughly add the two rails together. Cheap PSUs are rated at their peak power, quality ones are rated at max sustainable power.



Besides, some is good, more is better, and too much isn't quite sufficient.

Not true,even if the 650 can probably sustain a little more power than the Earthwatts, the Earthwatts has 80% efficiency at 20, 50 and 80% (I think those are the three). Generally, PSUs are most efficient at 70%, much less so at lower wattages. His PC will probably pull about 300 watts at load, or nearly 70% of 430. If the 650 can actually sustain that power, it will be at 50%, which will be much less efficient than the earthwatts at 70%. GeForce 8800GT, $160. Intel Core 2 Duo E7200, $130. Gigabyte DS3L, $90. Losing your whole system due to a $20 PSU, Priceless.

Myatar, where do you live? As far as I know, Newegg does not charge sales tax.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Unfortunately, I live in one of the few states that newegg said they charge sales tax to: California.

[Forthork]

Unfortunately, I live in one of the few states that newegg said they charge sales tax to: California.

Ouch. That's unfortunate. Like I said, if you are tight for cash, you can save some money by going with 2 gigs of RAM, as there isn't currently a real need for more, but more will helpful later. It is just too bad you don't have a Windows disk, that would save you a lot of money.

[Triaxx]

2GB is all that a 32-bit OS can handle anyway.

Hah. The upside to my 20.00 PSU is that I use the on-board sound, so when it sounds funny, I know the PSU is on the way out. I've had the new one arrive the same day as the old one died.

[Forthork]

2GB is all that a 32-bit OS can handle anyway.

Hah. The upside to my 20.00 PSU is that I use the on-board sound, so when it sounds funny, I know the PSU is on the way out. I've had the new one arrive the same day as the old one died.

32-bit can use about 3.5 gigs, but he is getting Vista 64.

[Erloas]

2GB is all that a 32-bit OS can handle anyway.

Hah. The upside to my 20.00 PSU is that I use the on-board sound, so when it sounds funny, I know the PSU is on the way out. I've had the new one arrive the same day as the old one died.

Actually a 32bit OS can handle exactly 4GB worth of addressing, it is just that a decent portion of that addressing is for components other then RAM. Since they use the same addressing for everything from RAM to the northbridge to the LAN controller and interrupt signals, so some of that 4GB isn't available to RAM. I've heard that in general it is between 3.25 and about 3.5GB worth that can be used by a 32bit system, it varies somewhat depending on what all the system has on it.


If you've got enough noise on your power lines for it to show up as noise on your sound system then it has to be playing havok with all your other components. Signal noise is actually a bigger problem with cheap PSUs but it is not something that can easily be "seen." It can manifest itself in a lot of ways though, the most common in generally computer instability. It can cause games to crash randomly, BSOD, random restarts and other such things. It usually shows up most in games because that is when the PSU is being worked the hardest, and it will generally give some sort of generic reason for crashing that might make it seem like software. But generally what happens is the noisy power messes up a few bits and returns a value that doesn't make any sense to the program, and since it could be almost anything that gets messed up it is pretty much a given that the program won't have an error cache that can handle that problem and it kills the game. It can also show up as artifacting and graphical glitches while playing too.
Spikes on the power lines can also screw up components too, it might not destroy them quickly but it will generally cause them to degrade faster.
I know on my brothers old computer he had issues fairly regularly when rendering really long videos where sometimes it would work fine and sometimes it would get 2-3 hours into the render and error then. We tracked that down to a poor quality PSU.

So just beacuse a PSU will power up a system doesn't mean its really working as intended.

[Triaxx]

You're right. I had that backwards. Interference with the television reception is the PSU sign. Squeaky sound is bad processor.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Alright...its been four days since my order and its still on step one on Newegg... I even payed the extra 2 bucks for the speedy processing when I ordered...Anyone know whats up?

The only thing that I could think up which might cause this is that I accidentally deleted their receipt they send you after the order before getting a chance to read it, and its not in the trash folder. I sent them a customer support thing about it the day it happened but they have yet to respond to me about it.

[Forthork]

Alright...its been four days since my order and its still on step one on Newegg... I even payed the extra 2 bucks for the speedy processing when I ordered...Anyone know whats up?

The only thing that I could think up which might cause this is that I accidentally deleted their receipt they send you after the order before getting a chance to read it, and its not in the trash folder. I sent them a customer support thing about it the day it happened but they have yet to respond to me about it.

Newegg is 3 business day shipping, I don't know how much your extra $2 did, but I would be concerned if it doesn't arrive by Wednesday. It is a big order, so it might be a little late. Your receipt is still on Newegg, just log in with the info you used to order. The wait is killer, I know. Anyway, just a caution when you get the stuff, I know it is shiny and pretty, but don't go touching everything before you assemble, or if you do take precautionary measures; static damage is rare unless you are very stupid, but it is not worth the risk of having to send a part back, delaying your build even further. I should be home tomorrow at about 2:30 EST latest, same on Wednesday, so I will be free to help you when I can. There are many others online that can offer help, the forums at Tom's Hardware Guide are pretty good.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Oh I know the shipping is three days. But Newegg is still processing my order.
Quote from their site:

Step 1:
Your order has been successfully submitted. Your credit/debit card has not yet been charged. Please allow 1-2 business days for your order to process and ship.

I'm starting to worry that I messed up during the ordering or something. But then again, if it was void, I think I saw somewhere that they would terminate the order after 3 processing days, and it has been four. I think I'll give them a call about it.

[Erloas]

Oh I know the shipping is three days. But Newegg is still processing my order.
Quote from their site:

Step 1:
Your order has been successfully submitted. Your credit/debit card has not yet been charged. Please allow 1-2 business days for your order to process and ship.

I'm starting to worry that I messed up during the ordering or something. But then again, if it was void, I think I saw somewhere that they would terminate the order after 3 processing days, and it has been four. I think I'll give them a call about it.

It is probably a billing issue. I had the same thing happen when I tried to order just after the post office changed my zip code. Newegg's site (and others) didn't accept my new zip code as a legitimate zip code and it wouldn't finish the order. It didn't give any errors and just said pending for a couple days until I got a hold of them and figured out the problem.

So give them a call, or their online assistance thing works really good too, and find out why the order isn't processing. The processing generally takes less then an hour or two if everything is right.

[Triaxx]

When ordering from 3btech, they explain that motherboards, combos, barebones, and complete systems are tested before shipping. Newegg might be doing the same.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Well, I called the credit card company. Apparently we haven't used our card in awhile so they were a bit suspicious when we randomly make a gigantic order. I guess they tried to call us, but we are currently in the process of changing phone lines + such so we didn't get the call.

Anyways, I asked them to take the charge next time, then proceeded to call up Newegg and have them try again. On step 3 after 20 minutes, and I'm guessing it will ship either today or tomorrow. :smallbiggrin:

[Myatar_Panwar]

I got my parts today, but am having some problems. I used this guide here: http://www.pcmech.com/byopc/step-1-materials-required/ as well as the guide that came with the motherboard to put it all together. Only it won't turn on...at all.

Here are some things I found strange while putting it together:
1. The fan connected to the case wasn't connected with a cord that could connect to the motherboard, only a cord that connects to the power supply. It also included a secondary cord which looks like something should be plugged into IT, as opposed to it plugging into something, like the power supply.
2. The hard drive has a 4 pin slot with nothing to connect to.
3. The ribbon wire with the twist doesn't seem to connect to anything, but in the online guide he mentions using it to connect the floppy drive (?).
4. The disk drive has two open slots, one a 3 pin, another an 8 pin (4 on top of another). Its already connected to the power supply and motherboard.
5. I have an extra piece, it looks like a 4 pin (only 2 on the inside?) with 2 wires extending out to a circular thing. I think its a fuse of sometype, as I'm pretty sure I got it with the motherboard, but I can't find anywhere for it to belong...
6. For the "F_PANEL" there are 5 different things: a MSG (power LED), a Power Switch, a Hard drive activity LED, a Reset Switch, and one for speakers. The case was hardwired with 3 of these 5... and they are: H.D.D LED, Reset SW, and Power SW. I think I know where the last 2 go, but I'm not sure about the H.D.D LED. And there are still 2 missing plug-in's anyway... Are these not necessary?
7. Right next to the "F_PANEL" there are two more panels, the PWR_LED and the Chassis Intrusion header. I have no plug-ins for these. Are they necessary?

There are probably more things I'm unsure about, but I'm far to tired ti remember them right now. I will probably post this on a tech-specific forum tomorrow as well, but if anyone knows anything about this problem I'm having, please tell me. I'm thinking that the main issue has to do with what I think is a fuse.

I also suspect that the online guide I was following was a bit outdated, because the guy spends an entire section telling you how to hook up your floppy drive. If anyone has a better guide I could take a look at, could you please link it?

[tyckspoon]

hmm. The last computer I built from scratch was back in the days of Win 3.1, floppies, and hand-setting jumpers to make things turn on.. so I'm afraid I can't offer very specific advice on setting up a modern box from start. But I can give general advice! :smalltongue:

Since you're not even reaching boot, I would say the first step is to check over the very most basic things. Make sure the motherboard is installed properly with all the standoffs in place. Check the manual (I'm hoping it has a labeled diagram of the mobo and all the slots and plugs on it) and make sure you have all the main power supplies plugged in. Make sure you have the PSU itself turned on (not to try and insult your intelligence, but I'm sure there have been frustrated system builders who forgot to do that.) You want to make sure the core of your system is good before you start adding in other parts. It'll probably beep at you if it reaches boot without any sort of other drive attached, but that's ok, it means it's reaching boot.

Edit: And if your motherboard's manual *does* have a nice labeled schematic of the motherboard, go over it carefully and see if you can find out what that disc thing is.

[Triaxx]

1-The fan just plugs into the power supply. The other plug would go to a case fan I believe.

2-Four pin slot? As in a power supply? Or is it the SATA cable?

3-Ribbon cable with a twist? I'd have to see it, but it's probably useless.

4-The three pin is a connection for CD sound. The other is for the jumpers for Master/Slave. Look at the lable on the drive and it'll tell you what they have to be set to.

5-No idea.

6-That's for the activity LED's. And they aren't needed.

7-The former isn't strictly necessary, and the latter is only on locking cases. Most mobo's don't support it.

Boot problems could stem from incorrectly set jumpers, or improperly seated RAM. Check the manual for the former, reset the RAM for the latter.

[Forthork]

1. The fan connected to the case wasn't connected with a cord that could connect to the motherboard, only a cord that connects to the power supply. It also included a secondary cord which looks like something should be plugged into IT, as opposed to it plugging into something, like the power supply.
2. The hard drive has a 4 pin slot with nothing to connect to.
3. The ribbon wire with the twist doesn't seem to connect to anything, but in the online guide he mentions using it to connect the floppy drive (?).
4. The disk drive has two open slots, one a 3 pin, another an 8 pin (4 on top of another). Its already connected to the power supply and motherboard.
5. I have an extra piece, it looks like a 4 pin (only 2 on the inside?) with 2 wires extending out to a circular thing. I think its a fuse of sometype, as I'm pretty sure I got it with the motherboard, but I can't find anywhere for it to belong...
6. For the "F_PANEL" there are 5 different things: a MSG (power LED), a Power Switch, a Hard drive activity LED, a Reset Switch, and one for speakers. The case was hardwired with 3 of these 5... and they are: H.D.D LED, Reset SW, and Power SW. I think I know where the last 2 go, but I'm not sure about the H.D.D LED. And there are still 2 missing plug-in's anyway... Are these not necessary?
7. Right next to the "F_PANEL" there are two more panels, the PWR_LED and the Chassis Intrusion header. I have no plug-ins for these. Are they necessary?

1. Fans can be plugged into the power supply, but the speed cannot be controlled. Does the second cord look like the one on your CPU's fan?
2.Have you plugged in two cables, one to motherboard and one to power supply? If so, those pins are jumpers, you shouldn't have to worry about them. The HDD is SATA, correct?
3.That's a floppy cable, pretty much unnecessary
4.Some of those are for audio, some are jumpers, again don't worry about them
5.Not entirely sure what you are talking about, if you can get a pic of it, i can help
6. and 7. I'll get a pic of my motherboard with the headers on to show you. Generally, you only need the power switch, the reset switch and HDD LED are very useful, the Power LED not so much, but plug it in if you can anyway. The speaker is very useful too, some motherboard (though I don't think the DS3L) have speakers onboard.

Nevermind the pic, the board is very simple to put the pins in. The colored wire is +, so put that side on the pin nearest the back of the case (it is labeled below). Also, please tell me you mounted your heatsink before you put your motherboard in? It is very important to make sure those pins are in all the way, or else your processor will get hotter than it should. Once everything is plugged in (if you have a camera and can take pics, that would be great), start her up, and on the first white screen, hit Delete. This will bring you into the bios. from here, you want to go to the second option down (using arrow keys) and hit enter. Then, you want to put your DVD drive as the first boot drive, I believe you use + and - keys to change the order, but you might hit enter and choose from a list. Provided everything worked up til here, hit F10, choose to save, and it will restart. Put in your Vista DVD and you are on your way.

Two more things, make sure your CPU fan is on the four-pin CPU_FAN on your motherboard, and put your RAM sticks in the two yellow slots.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Hrm, I already posted this a couple of hours ago, but it looks like it didn't get through with GitP's current server overload thing going on (or at least for me I am getting alot of "Server Not Responding").

So no, the extra plug-in on the fan isn't like the CPU one, this one is exactly like its brother, which is plugged into the power supply, but it is backwards. Meaning you could plug them both together (make sense?).
For the HD I did already plug it into both the motherboard and the PSU, and yes it is SATA.
The little thing that I thought was a fuse was actually the plug in for the speakers on the F_PANEL, im pretty sure.

I also took a better look at the motherboard diagram, as suggested, and I did accidentally have the RAM in the secondary slots instead of the primary ones. I switched them and still no go. I'm fairly certain that all of the plugs are in the right way, yet I still get absolutely nothing when I hit the power switch. For now I'll probably leave it all alone until I can get someone over here who knows what they are doing, or until I'm absolutely certain of the problem.

Edit: Yeah I put in the processor fan before I installed the motherboard. And whoa whoa whoa, the RAM goes into the 2 yellow slots? According to the diagram it goes from Yellow (DDR2 1) then Red (DDR2 2) then Yellow (DDR2 3), then Red (DDR2 4).

[Erloas]

I tried to post a response earlier but it died too and I didn't get a chance to re-do it.

Are the fans spinning up at all? If they start and stop or start and nothing comes up on the screen it tells you different things then if they simply do nothing at all.

If they aren't spinning up then you likely are just missing power connections somewhere, or don't have the power switch in the right place.

They should at least start to spin up without a heatsink on the CPU (it will auto-shut itself down quickly though), it will do that without RAM and without a video card. As long as the motherboard has power and the switch is in the right spot then the fans should spin up for a least a second.

So are the fans spinning up at all or not?

[Myatar_Panwar]

No nothings spinning, nothing running at all. I am thus expecting that I have the switch cord in the wrong place, it is supposed to be horizontal right? Or at least thats how my diagram shows it.

[Erloas]

Well horizontal and verticle are relative so that doesn't give much to go off of. Every one I can think of is set up the same way. They will be 2 wide by 5-7 pins long, every one I can think of always had devices oriented the long way, row 1 would have some devices and row 2 would have some devices, and switchs are always next to eachother.

13579
2468

If the pins where aranged like that it would be on 1 and 3, or 2 and 4, it wouldn't be 1 and 2 or 3 and 4. Once you are certain of the pin orientation and have the switch in the right place if it still doesn't work then try the reset switch rather then the power switch, in case it is just a bad switch. The only difference between a reset switch and power switch is what picture they print on them.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Yeah then I do have them in the correct areas... I've even removed the front panel to see if they made a mistake when labeling the wires, but its all correct.

Edit: I'll take some pictures of the inside tonight. My dad has our sole digital camera, so I'll have to wait till he gets home from work.

Another edit: Ugh, I found the problem. I stupidly skimmed over a step in the instructions and initially put the motherboard in w/o spacers. I'm not sure what I was thinking, but the board is probably fried. So I took it to a nearby tech store and had him take a look at it. He's going to call me tomorrow and tell me whats up. If the board is miraculously ok, then I pay the guy his fee and leave. If the board is fried then he guarantees me the warranty and will order a new board. Either way, I'm going to end up paying this guy around 80 bucks.

Live and learn I suppose. :smallmad::smallfrown: *smacks forehead*

[Forthork]

Hmm, that is very unfortunate. None of your components are burnt, and you did not smell smoke, right? The biggest problem here is if something else got damaged, you would have no way of knowing because you have no spare parts. Most likely, however, nothing else got damaged.


Either way, I'm going to end up paying this guy around 80 bucks.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You are paying him 80 bucks to check it out? Did you at least try it with the standoffs? You could have just sent it back to Gigabyte, and they would send you a new one, shipping may have been like $10. Or you could have bought a new one from Newegg and returned the old one, only losing the 15% restocking fee. Well, like you said, live and learn.

About the RAM, the same colored slots are the ones that run in dual channel, which is what you want when running two sticks of RAM. And the fan thing, that is so you can plug in the PSU cord, then plug it into something (those four pin connectors are for ATA HDD and disk drives), so you would not lose a connector. It matters little to you.

One last thing, are you sure there was juice going to the computer (was the switch on the PSU set to on [the - sign depresed])? If you are very lucky, you may have forgot to switch it on.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Yeah it was on. And I wasn't particularly too happy with paying the guy the extra money, but he seemed pretty sure of himself that if the board was damaged, that Newegg would be a little suspicious and not replace it if it was from personal damage, so he would contact them and say that it was faulty from the beginning (him having no bias for not having to pay anything in relation to this). But I'm fairly certain that their warranty would cover it, or they wouldn't expect it close enough to know that I was the cause. I personally didn't want to get involved with this, but my father was so certain that this was a better idea that he offered to pay for it.

So eh, not so bad for me personally then.

And no, I didn't smell anything when I turned it on.

[factotum]

So no, the extra plug-in on the fan isn't like the CPU one, this one is exactly like its brother, which is plugged into the power supply, but it is backwards. Meaning you could plug them both together (make sense?).


That's simply a pass-though connector so plugging the fan in doesn't rob you of one of your PSU power connectors--most fans powered directly from a PSU connection have them.

As for powering up the motherboard while it was shorting against the metal backplate, I don't think it's likely that will have caused a problem. Any halfway decent PSU would detect the short as soon as you tried to start it and would immediately cut the power, hopefully before any serious damage got caused. I do wonder how you managed to fit the motherboard without using spacers, though! (One other warning: when you DO fit the spacers they're usually made of metal as well, so you need to ensure that you only put them in the holes where the motherboard screws will go. Otherwise you'll be on a one-way ride straight to Short Circuit Junction again).

[Forthork]

Well, if your father offered to pay, that's one thing. I just wonder how your parents feel about you playing around with $800 worth of computer parts. If you did want to return it, as long as there are no physical damage marks, you simply tell them that is was DOA (dead on arrival) and there isn't much they can do about it. Like factorum said, there's a good chance it is not dead, as you have a good PSU, and Gigabyte boards use all solid capacitors. Good luck, hopefully all will be good.

One more thing, you will probably have to buy some thermal grease. The stuff that comes on your CPU heatsink is probably dry, so you won't be able to reuse it (if it is not dry, make sure nothing touches it, put the CPU on the heatsink keeping the thermal compound together).

[Myatar_Panwar]

^ Theres a good chance that the PSU would protect the motherboard from damage? Try telling that to the people around me, they seem dead set on the idea that if you connect one thing wrong with any sort of electronical appliance you now how a heap of shorted parts, 100% of the time. I couldn't even convince him to let me take it home first to see if it was okay.:smallsigh:

And yes factotum, I had a horrible time trying to manage getting the back panel for all of the connection slots (keyboard, mouse, etc.) to fit with the slots on the motherboard. Jeebus, that was hell.

[Myatar_Panwar]

^ Theres a good chance that the PSU would protect the motherboard from damage? Try telling that to the people around me, they seem dead set on the idea that if you connect one thing wrong with any sort of electronical appliance you now how a heap of shorted parts, 100% of the time. I couldn't even convince him to let me take it home first to see if it was okay.:smallsigh:

And yes factotum, I had a horrible time trying to manage getting the back panel for all of the connection slots (keyboard, mouse, etc.) to fit with the slots on the motherboard. Jeebus, that was hell.

[Forthork]

^ Theres a good chance that the PSU would protect the motherboard from damage? Try telling that to the people around me, they seem dead set on the idea that if you connect one thing wrong with any sort of electronical appliance you now how a heap of shorted parts, 100% of the time. I couldn't even convince him to let me take it home first to see if it was okay.:smallsigh:

And yes factotum, I had a horrible time trying to manage getting the back panel for all of the connection slots (keyboard, mouse, etc.) to fit with the slots on the motherboard. Jeebus, that was hell.

There is usually a good chance of motherboards dying from short circuits, but the combination of your PSU's short circuit protection (which is pretty much standard these days on good PSUs) and the motherboards construction (Gigabyte uses very good capacitors) significantly lowers the chance of the motherboard dying. There is still a chance that it died, and in your situation, getting it checked out by someone with tech knowledge is not a very bad thing, but you might have been able to avoid it by just mounting it with the standoffs. If it worked, problem solved. If not, then you get it checked out or return it. I'm not saying what you did was bad, just that you might have been able to save yourself the headache and $80.

[Forthork]

^ Theres a good chance that the PSU would protect the motherboard from damage? Try telling that to the people around me, they seem dead set on the idea that if you connect one thing wrong with any sort of electronical appliance you now how a heap of shorted parts, 100% of the time. I couldn't even convince him to let me take it home first to see if it was okay.:smallsigh:

And yes factotum, I had a horrible time trying to manage getting the back panel for all of the connection slots (keyboard, mouse, etc.) to fit with the slots on the motherboard. Jeebus, that was hell.

There is usually a good chance of motherboards dying from short circuits, but the combination of your PSU's short circuit protection (which is pretty much standard these days on good PSUs) and the motherboards construction (Gigabyte uses very good capacitors) significantly lowers the chance of the motherboard dying. There is still a chance that it died, and in your situation, getting it checked out by someone with tech knowledge is not a very bad thing, but you might have been able to avoid it by just mounting it with the standoffs. If it worked, problem solved. If not, then you get it checked out or return it. I'm not saying what you did was bad, just that you might have been able to save yourself the headache and $80.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Alright, looks like the motherboard is fine. I brought the computer home and am now currently in the process of installing Vista. Woot :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Ok vista and drivers installed. :smallamused:

[Forthork]

That's great. Did you use the drivers from the video card's CD, or did you download the latest ones? Not that it is a huge deal, but the latest ones are usually better. Now, I assume you got DDR2 800 RAM, which particular set did you get? You may have to tweak it a little to get the proper performance. One thing I need to mention, if you every get a program to view your PC specs, it may say your processor is running at 2Ghz, don't worry, this is an energy-saving feature that lowers the multiplier (lowering the CPU speed) when possible. If you did not catch my mention of the RAM in the two similar-colored slots, you should do this because the same-colored slots are dual channel, which essentially doubles the bandwidth of the RAM (has much lesser real-world performance gains, but it still helps). I think that should be everything, have any other questions feel free to post or IM me on Steam. Have fun with your new PC, and I hope to see you on TF2.

[Myatar_Panwar]

That's great. Did you use the drivers from the video card's CD, or did you download the latest ones? Not that it is a huge deal, but the latest ones are usually better. Now, I assume you got DDR2 800 RAM, which particular set did you get? You may have to tweak it a little to get the proper performance. One thing I need to mention, if you every get a program to view your PC specs, it may say your processor is running at 2Ghz, don't worry, this is an energy-saving feature that lowers the multiplier (lowering the CPU speed) when possible. If you did not catch my mention of the RAM in the two similar-colored slots, you should do this because the same-colored slots are dual channel, which essentially doubles the bandwidth of the RAM (has much lesser real-world performance gains, but it still helps). I think that should be everything, have any other questions feel free to post or IM me on Steam. Have fun with your new PC, and I hope to see you on TF2.


Yeah I got 4G of DDR2 800, here they are: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122
Oh and I did follow your advice on putting the two sticks of RAM in the similar slots.

And I still need to download the latest drivers, not like I really need to at this point. With what little money I had left I went and bought Crysis, it was on sale for 30$ at Bestbuy. Its been quite the far-off dream for me to play that game for quite some time, but now I can run it on High settings without any sort of lag. :smallbiggrin: I can play it on Very High, but thats a bit of a stretch, and it tends to lag. And TF2 is SOOOO much better knowing that I will not always lag at the most important moments.

Either way, I'm really enjoying my new PC so far, thanks for all your help everyone!

Only thing is that I now qualify to wear that shirt Woot.com had up on Friday. Not sure if you saw it or even visit the site, but it was basically a wallet with feeble small bills walking inside and large bills walking out. Essentially its comming out faster than it can go in. Very much so worth it though.