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Sstoopidtallkid
2008-06-02, 03:34 PM
My group is going to attack a Dragon soon, and we have a bit of time to resupply. It's not likely to be huge, as we're only going to be EPL 7 or 8, so I'm anticipating a Large opponent. We plan to take him out through Dex damage, but I've started thinking about, instead of Coup de Gras, chaining the Dragon and bringing him back as a gift for our boss and a source of intel on the BBEG. What would we need to do to prevent him from moving enough to cast spells or escape, without being Evil?

Jack_Simth
2008-06-02, 03:49 PM
My group is going to attack a Dragon soon, and we have a bit of time to resupply. It's not likely to be huge, as we're only going to be EPL 7 or 8, so I'm anticipating a Large opponent. We plan to take him out through Dex damage, but I've started thinking about, instead of Coup de Gras, chaining the Dragon and bringing him back as a gift for our boss and a source of intel on the BBEG. What would we need to do to prevent him from moving enough to cast spells or escape, without being Evil?
1) Maximized (by rod?) Touch of Idiocy and Arcane Sight to watch his ability to cast spells, perhaps. Depends on his Charisma score. Has duration issues, though.

2) Bestow Curse (-6 to the primary casting stat) combined with Arcane Sight to watch and make sure he loses the ability to cast spells could also do it. (can be combined with 1).

3) Feeblemind will do it... but leaves you unable to properly interrogate him. It's also probably out of reach, as a 5th level spell.

4) Polymorph him into something that can't do Verbal or Somatic components, perhaps... but you've got duration issues there.

5) Ego Whip repeatedly (if you have a Psion or Wilder available) to reduce Charisma below 10. Again - watch with Arcane Sight - that will tell you when he's reached the point where he no longer has spells available.

Basically, you need to remove his ability to do verbal and somatic components (gag, bindings), and/or reduce his Charisma (or other casting stat) below 10.

Ionizer
2008-06-02, 04:13 PM
Manacles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#manaclesandManaclesMasterwork ) might be a good investment. Of course, first you'll have to immobilize him. Your Dex Damage plan is a good one. Entangle or Web might help keep him from flying while you whittle him down. To stop him from using his breath weapon, try chaining his mouth shut. You can use Summon Monster III or IV to summon one (or more) Huge Fiendish Monstrous Centipedes to inflict the Dex damage. If the Dragon takes 10 or more Dex damage (that is, takes enough Dex damage to reduce it to 0 or less), it's paralyzed for 24 hours. If that's enough time to transport it to where your going, you've got it made. After the 24 hours, it will regain some Dex and not be paralyzed anymore, just summon up a new centipede. To restrain it until it succumbs to the poison again, use the manacles. To keep it from flying away, chain up it's wings. To prevent it from breathing on you, chain it's mouth shut. The manacles and muzzle should stop it from casting it's sorcerer spells. It's spell-like abilities are another thing. However, at the level you say you are, dragons don't have many useful spell-like abilities (at least, not useful if they're tied up and gagged).

Good luck in your dragon hunt.

MeklorIlavator
2008-06-02, 05:00 PM
Well, I would suggest using massive amounts of nonleathal damage. Thus, take him down once, then use a weapon with the merciful ability to Coup de grace him into unconsciousness, and then a bit more. Then simply take him back to the big boss in a cart with one party member tasked to repeatedly coup de grace him. once you get back, you can either kill him or set up a more secure method of keeping him docile.

Hal
2008-06-02, 08:07 PM
Well, I would suggest using massive amounts of nonleathal damage. Thus, take him down once, then use a weapon with the merciful ability to Coup de grace him into unconsciousness, and then a bit more. Then simply take him back to the big boss in a cart with one party member tasked to repeatedly coup de grace him. once you get back, you can either kill him or set up a more secure method of keeping him docile.

I'm just imagining this caravan back to civilization:

The party has a large cart, with the restrained dragon laying on it. As the party moves along, someone is standing on the dragon, and whacking it with a big hammer every couple of minutes.

evisiron
2008-06-02, 08:18 PM
Just out of curiosity, is the original plan running along the use of Shivering Touch (which deals 2d6 dex damage, effective against the normal dragon dex of 10)?

Just be careful getting the caster close enough to get that touch attack in...

FlyMolo
2008-06-02, 08:37 PM
Well, I would suggest using massive amounts of nonleathal damage. Thus, take him down once, then use a weapon with the merciful ability to Coup de grace him into unconsciousness, and then a bit more. Then simply take him back to the big boss in a cart with one party member tasked to repeatedly coup de grace him. once you get back, you can either kill him or set up a more secure method of keeping him docile.

This will work a treat. Actually, simply use your weapon as a nonlethal one. -4 penalty to attack and damage, I think. A gnome, sitting on a dragon, idly thwapping at it with a greatsword? Yes please.

MeklorIlavator
2008-06-02, 08:40 PM
This will work a treat. Actually, simply use your weapon as a nonlethal one. -4 penalty to attack and damage, I think. A gnome, sitting on a dragon, idly thwapping at it with a greatsword? Yes please.

True, but I don't think you can coup de grace this way.

And yes, half of the reason I suggested this is the image. Just don't let PETA know.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-06-02, 11:14 PM
2 Spellcasters who can do Ray of Clumsiness and Ray of Exhaustion. We are fairly confident in our Dex damage abilities, especially since I have 20 ft reach, Combat Reflexes, and enough of an init mod to go first fairly reliably, so I should be able to stop his movement. I'm just worried about him getting up after the duration of RoEx passes. Nonlethal works really well, especially snce our Ninja can Sudden Strike with a Sap, and I can ignore DR.

FlyMolo
2008-06-02, 11:20 PM
True, but I don't think you can coup de grace this way.

And yes, half of the reason I suggested this is the image. Just don't let PETA know.

What's your point? The nonlethal will stack up after a while. Knock him out with RoEx, then get the whole party thwapping away with nonlethal full attacks until he has enough to keep him down. Then sit the gnome up top with a sap or oversized greatsword. He can hardly miss, after all. REgular attacks stack up after a while.