Whats the best +int +cha lvl+3 race?

[H0L7]

up to lvl adjust 3 and no i cant just add those levels onto the char they are race buy only

high int+ high cha+ are musts some con would be nice

the char is going to be wizard/sorc gestalt until lvl 5 when it is able to access ultimate magus

[Azerian Kelimon]

...Uhm...Did your DM allow Ultimate Magus? Because it's one of those PrC's that aren't supposed to be used in Gestalt.

[Jack_Simth]

up to lvl adjust 3 and no i cant just add those levels onto the char they are race buy only

high int+ high cha+ are musts some con would be nice

the char is going to be wizard/sorc gestalt until lvl 5 when it is able to access ultimate magus
The Phenric template (+2 LA) is rather handy.

Do note, though - that's actually one of the mechanically weaker gestalts, and Ultimate Magus will actually reduce your casting progression below what you'll get with continuing Wizard//Sorcerer.

[monty]

The Petal from MM3 is pretty awesome. -8 Str, +10 Dex, +4 Con, +4 Int, +8 Cha for +2 LA. It's especially good in gestalt, since you don't have to sacrifice caster progression. On the other hand, your DM must be crazy allowing a dual-caster PrC in gestalt.

[H0L7]

he pulled the thurge so here comes the magus

[evisiron]

Well, it may not be geared perfectly, but for 3 levels worth the Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale from Savage Species is pretty good for any occasion.

I gives a boost to most stats and a hefty +9 (I think) to natural armour. Also, its 3HD instead of 3LA so you could potentially gain the 3/4 BAB and high hit dice.

[Azerian Kelimon]

he pulled the thurge so here comes the magus

Wait. You're saying he said "No" to the Mystic Theurge, so you're trying to sneak in the Ultimate Magus?

Munchkin.

[Nebo_]

Wait. You're saying he said "No" to the Mystic Theurge, so you're trying to sneak in the Ultimate Magus?

Munchkin.

I wouldn't quite use that wording, but I agree with the sentiment. You know that your DM doesn't want dual progression because he disallowed the Mystic Theurge, so you try to use a different one? That's bad form.

[H0L7]

no i'm saying he threw like 4 at us so the ante has already been upped

[UserClone]

UM doesn't give full casting on either side, technically, but yes. Munchkinry at its finest.

[Azerian Kelimon]

no i'm saying he threw like 4 at us so the ante has already been upped

Like 4 WHAT?

Look, if your DM sets X rules, you follow them. You don't take your own decision on the tack the game has. Use a better spell list. To change the tack of the rules IS munchkinism. You can't screw what the DM says.

[H0L7]

4 thurge along with some jotheim
AT NO POINT HAS ANY CLASS OR RACE BEEN BANNED FROM MY GAME THE DM HAS SUGGESTED THURGE TO OTHER PLAYERS HE THEN THREW 4 OF THEM AT US THE NEXT SESSION

i hope that clears up the confusion

[Azerian Kelimon]

4 thurge along with some jotheim
AT NO POINT HAS ANY CLASS OR RACE BEEN BANNED FROM MY GAME THE DM HAS SUGGESTED THURGE TO OTHER PLAYERS HE THEN THREW 4 OF THEM AT US THE NEXT SESSION

i hope that clears up the confusion

Aaah. That clears it up.

Well, I'd pick up Mineral warrior, if you need Con that much. The reduction is HUGE.

Failing that, hmm...wasn't there one that gave you +8 to both CHA and INT?

[H0L7]

we took the petal and made a sorc/warlock with 2 levels of monk to get much needed armor and evasion the magus just got thrown out totally

thank you all for your help.

oh do u know any god +1lvl templates we could throw on the petal?

[Arbitrarity]

Mineral warrior, as recommended, is a crazy good defensive template. Here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e)

[H0L7]

im not worried about defense the chars mostly built now and it looks ok

the mineral warrior is horrible it damages both its spell casting classes and its monk wis bonus to ac not to mention taking away its ability to fly.

a boost to charisma or dex would be good as this is a basically unarmored character

we need items too

[Xyk]

Minor nitpick. It was bugging me. It's "Theurge", unless your talking about something other than the mystic theurge from DMG that gives casting from divine and arcane. It's not "Thurge".

[monty]

How about the Dark template from Tome of Magic? No stat boosts, but it makes you harder to find (bonuses to move speed, Hide, and Move Silently; Hide in Plain Sight; etc.) and harder to find means harder to hit (remember, you already have a ridiculous Hide bonus from your size and Dex).

[Tempest Fennac]

I'm probably too late to make this comment, but Tabaxis (which are humanoid cats) apparently get a +2 to Int ( http://www.silverdragonpress.com/rpg/tabaxi_3e.html ). If you wanted an Ultimate Magus, playing as a Beguiller/Specialist Wizard barring Illusion and Enchantment would work well with this race due to both of them using Int.

[H0L7]

Minor nitpick. It was bugging me. It's "Theurge", unless your talking about something other than the mystic theurge from DMG that gives casting from divine and arcane. It's not "Thurge".

thank you so much oh astute spelling master

[riddles]

ok, seriously, there was no need for the sarcasm at all. Xyk didn't put his point across in that much of a negative manner.

you weren't that clear on what you wanted in the first post and your subsequent posts didn't clear it up too well either.

for example:
he pulled the thurge so here comes the magus could mean anything from the DM banning the theurge to using against you. obviously most posters took it to be the former.

I appreciate that this is the internet and so english might not be your first language but your posts do need an element of deciphering - make it easy for people to help you by spending a bit of time crafting your posts. you are asking for their time and help, the least you could do is make it easy for them.

secondly, getting into an arms race with your DM is a BAD idea. if he has anything about him, he will always win and so the power battle is pointless unless that is the direct goal of the game. in which case, best of luck.

As to getting good help:
- What is the current state of your character (levels, templates, feats etc.)? you've said he is a spellcaster and you're looking to go ultimate magus, then you said he was a petal with monk levels but you also want a spellcaster - it is confusing
- What level are you looking to advance to?
- does the character have a particular role?
- how much gold do you have to spend?
- what books are allowed?
- is anything in particular banned?

[Bag_of_Holding]

ok, seriously, there was no need for the sarcasm at all. Xyk didn't put his point across in that much of a negative manner.

From what I can see, it's dangerously close to the realm of obnoxious/offensive comment than pure sarcasm. Sarcasm makes you look cool as long as it is used sparingly.


On topic, I remember a line in the UA that specifically states that you cannot use MT or any other double-progression PrCs to progress both side of your gestalt builds.

[Nebo_]

On topic, I remember a line in the UA that specifically states that you cannot use MT or any other double-progression PrCs to progress both side of your gestalt builds.

That's actually a suggested rule, not RAW, but it's a very good idea to use it. Otherwise, people will try to abuse it.

Off topic: You appear to be Australian. Are you going to GenCon Oz?

[riddles]

From what I can see, it's dangerously close to the realm of obnoxious/offensive comment than pure sarcasm. Sarcasm makes you look cool as long as it is used sparingly.


On topic, I remember a line in the UA that specifically states that you cannot use MT or any other double-progression PrCs to progress both side of your gestalt builds.

see, if i were going to make that comment, i'd make sure my grammar and spelling were on the button correct. just to make the point stand out.

On topic: it should be RAW imho. gestalt is powerful engouh without dual progression getting involved. mind you, it does make theurge playable in terms of power instead of a gimped bookkeeping nightmare

[Bag_of_Holding]

That's actually a suggested rule, not RAW, but it's a very good idea to use it. Otherwise, people will try to abuse it.

Off topic: You appear to be Australian. Are you going to GenCon Oz?

Off topic: I was thinking about it but undecided as of now.

On-topic: Oh right... warlock/eldritch theurge (or was it disciple)//something 5/Ur-priest 2/mystic theurge (with warlock) sounds very interesting indeed.



see, if i were going to make that comment, i'd make sure my grammar and spelling were on the button correct. just to make the point stand out.

On topic: it should be RAW imho. gestalt is powerful engouh without dual progression getting involved. mind you, it does make theurge playable in terms of power instead of a gimped bookkeeping nightmare

REAL bookkeeping nightmare comes when you're playing archivist/wizard hybrid... A friend of mine tried it and well she said it was 'half the fun' but she can be weird like that.

[Solo]

From what I can see, it's dangerously close to the realm of obnoxious/offensive comment than pure sarcasm. Sarcasm makes you look cool as long as it is used sparingly.

Or if you use it a lot but are good enough to get away with it.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Don't push it, Solo ... :smalltongue: