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View Full Version : What happens if you put too much rank in Perform (Dance)?



SolkaTruesilver
2008-06-02, 09:40 PM
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggDjnjrinkY&feature=related) is what you can realise with ennough ranks in Perform (dance)!

(don't forget that was filmed in 1951)

so.. does everybody agree that it grant Spider Walk while dancing? how many ranks would you require such feat?

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-02, 09:42 PM
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggDjnjrinkY&feature=related) is what you can realise with ennough ranks in Perform (dance)!

(don't forget that was filmed in 1951)

so.. does everybody agree that it grant Spider Walk while dancing? how many ranks would you require such feat?

15 ranks, I'd say.

And actually, with enough Perform (Dance) ranks, you become Mata Hari.

SolkaTruesilver
2008-06-02, 09:51 PM
So, you think a mere skill check of 30 is required to walk on the walls?

FlyMolo
2008-06-02, 10:16 PM
I heard that they still don't know for sure how that was filmed. Even the rotating-room-with-bolted-furniture theory has issues. For example, there's a picture he keeps moving around the room. Why doesn't it fall off? It could be cleverly stapled down or otherwise clamped, but either way it's really sophisticated. Not CG, and this would look good even today.

And dear players: I would totally allow this.

FMArthur
2008-06-02, 10:23 PM
I'd say at least 40. Bare minimum. Keep in mind that this is actually better than spider walk because of the ability to jump off the cieling and gravitate back towards it. I'd be more inclined to bump the check to 50 or 60. You're duplicating unambiguously magical effects with mere skill, remember.

de-trick
2008-06-02, 10:27 PM
would make a non bard character take ranks in preform

FlyMolo
2008-06-02, 10:28 PM
I'd say at least 40. Bare minimum. Keep in mind that this is actually better than spider walk because of the ability to jump off the cieling and gravitate back towards it. I'd be more inclined to bump the check to 50 or 60. You're duplicating unambiguously magical effects with mere skill, remember.

Pff. Who has time to run an epic game? Realistically of course 40 at least, but I would set it at 25. Minimum 15 ranks to attempt. At that point the PCs have spiderwalk and climb, it's not even a big deal. And besides, the campaign I'm running is unambigously silly.

Collin152
2008-06-02, 10:31 PM
I heard that they still don't know for sure how that was filmed. Even the rotating-room-with-bolted-furniture theory has issues. For example, there's a picture he keeps moving around the room. Why doesn't it fall off? It could be cleverly stapled down or otherwise clamped, but either way it's really sophisticated. Not CG, and this would look good even today.

And dear players: I would totally allow this.

Much of what's on the wals seems painted on.
If it's relevant.

FlyMolo
2008-06-02, 10:33 PM
Much of what's on the wals seems painted on.
If it's relevant.

Oh yeah, and the chair is bolted to the floor after the shot where he spins it. And cleverly constructed coat+hatstand, plastic versions hanging upside down.

And a picture holding clamp. Any way this was shot, it was slick.

Chronos
2008-06-02, 10:34 PM
I heard that they still don't know for sure how that was filmed. Even the rotating-room-with-bolted-furniture theory has issues. For example, there's a picture he keeps moving around the room. Why doesn't it fall off? It could be cleverly stapled down or otherwise clamped, but either way it's really sophisticated. Not CG, and this would look good even today.I'm pretty sure I've seen footage of the same scene, from a stationary camera to show how it was done (I guess it was a neat enough trick that they wanted to document it). I don't know for sure how the picture is secured, but I'd guess magnets (note that whenever he puts it down, he's very careful how he places it).

And there's probably a few skill tricks in there, too.

Hunter Noventa
2008-06-02, 11:02 PM
As impressive as that is...do the Jumplomancer thing, only with dance...and you get the enemy to join you in the Hare Hare Yukai. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP1HAGoKmmM&feature=related)

FlyMolo
2008-06-02, 11:14 PM
As impressive as that is...do the Jumplomancer thing, only with dance...and you get the enemy to join you in the Hare Hare Yukai. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP1HAGoKmmM&feature=related)

That made no sense but genuinely made me happy to watch it. Huh.

Townopolis
2008-06-02, 11:50 PM
I'd be inclined to make it a feat requiring 12 ranks in perform:dance and a daily use of bardic music to activate, myself.

averagejoe
2008-06-02, 11:54 PM
how many ranks would you require such feat?

All of them.

Seriously, though, you can probably just compare it to the climb check that lets you do that in the epic level handbook and base it on that. I don't have the handbook on me, so I can't check, but it should be a good starting point.

I have to agree, though, that shot was amazing. That's some smooth special effects.

Frosty
2008-06-03, 02:14 AM
That made no sense but genuinely made me happy to watch it. Huh.

Hare Hare Yukai is like Soma. It's a happy drug, except without the side effects.

Waspinator
2008-06-03, 02:28 AM
I'm pretty sure I've seen footage of the same scene, from a stationary camera to show how it was done (I guess it was a neat enough trick that they wanted to document it). I don't know for sure how the picture is secured, but I'd guess magnets (note that whenever he puts it down, he's very careful how he places it).

And there's probably a few skill tricks in there, too.

Magnets sounds very likely to me. That would allow the picture to "stick" to places without him having to do anything but place it in the right spot. Just put really strong magnets all facing one way in the frame and hide ones facing the other way behind the places where he puts it.

Anyway, it's a very well done scene. Very slick applications of technology that was probably not very advanced.

Jade_Tarem
2008-06-03, 10:28 AM
With all those ranks in Perform (Dance) you become untouchable. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzoBkaFxh4)

FlyMolo
2008-06-03, 12:36 PM
With all those ranks in Perform (Dance) you become untouchable. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMzoBkaFxh4)

I want to write up a truenamer style PrC for bards with Perform(dance). Allows Spiderclimb, Ac=infinite, and so on.

Signmaker
2008-06-03, 04:17 PM
Perform(Dance): Required to be a smooth criminal. (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v5886561tbQ5cc4D?searchId=419679449955969325&rank=11)

MammonAzrael
2008-06-03, 04:57 PM
I want to write up a truenamer style PrC for bards with Perform(dance). Allows Spiderclimb, Ac=infinite, and so on.

...This must be done. I must now ponder eith era Dancer Class, or a Lord of the Dance PrC.

So far we've got the ceiling dance and Hammer Time. What else would be a good dance to incorporate? Thriller?

And Fly, now I'm really hope the game lasts until this level.

nobodylovesyou4
2008-06-03, 04:58 PM
actually, i was thinking if you get enough ranks, you get something like this. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=zdu7xoHU9DA) Although yours is cooler.

Brasswatchman
2008-06-03, 10:19 PM
So, you think a mere skill check of 30 is required to walk on the walls?

Depends. Would you consider Fred Astaire an epic-level character? :D

Brasswatchman
2008-06-03, 10:42 PM
I heard that they still don't know for sure how that was filmed. Even the rotating-room-with-bolted-furniture theory has issues. For example, there's a picture he keeps moving around the room. Why doesn't it fall off? It could be cleverly stapled down or otherwise clamped, but either way it's really sophisticated. Not CG, and this would look good even today.

If you watch closely, there's a cut to a wider shot at about 1 minute 48 seconds into the clip. Best guess: they stopped the camera at that moment, clipped down the frame on the table (you can see that it takes him a bit of effort to grab it later on) and did the rotating-room thing. Now later on when he sets the picture down on the wall - hm. Notice how he moves away from the picture to the other side of the room before the room rotates again? Bet you they had someone run in from off-frame and secure the picture to that wall in that second... or else someone grabbed the picture he'd been holding and someone else replaced part of the set wall with another version of the same picture stuck to it, then switched them back once he got back on the ground.

Any way you look at it, though, an utterly brilliant combination of choreography (both of Astaire AND of the film crew) and stage engineering. I've never actually seen that before. Whoever started the thread, thanks for bringing it up!

Curmudgeon
2008-06-03, 10:45 PM
I think the DC should be about 50 to dance on a ceiling. It's pretty obvious that Astaire was an Epic-level dancer. How else do you explain him making a coat rack look like a good partner?

Pelfaid
2008-06-03, 11:51 PM
I think judicious use of Boots of Reverse Gravity would help a lot.

Worira
2008-06-04, 12:13 AM
...This must be done. I must now ponder eith era Dancer Class, or a Lord of the Dance PrC.

So far we've got the ceiling dance and Hammer Time. What else would be a good dance to incorporate? Thriller?

And Fly, now I'm really hope the game lasts until this level.

The Lord of the Dance (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=979511)

Solo
2008-06-04, 12:27 AM
Dance magic dance...

Signmaker
2008-06-04, 02:19 PM
I say that Astaire's ceiling dance is revolving room with bolted furniture and magnitized movable objects. For the picture, that at least makes sense. The chair's iffy though, as he maneuvers it quite easily, while a magnet to support it upside down would create quite a strong pull.

Cainen
2008-06-04, 02:22 PM
You know what happens?

You take Diamond Mind maneuvers to replace your saves and take attack maneuvers.

Then you cast Undersong, which replaces Concentration checks with Perform checks.

Congratulations. Michael Jackson is now a warrior.

sonofzeal
2008-06-04, 02:38 PM
If that's a DC50 check for Spider Climb, what is this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMZwZiU0kKs)?

Chronos
2008-06-04, 02:44 PM
The chair's iffy though, as he maneuvers it quite easily, while a magnet to support it upside down would create quite a strong pull.There's a cut between when he's spinning the chair and when the wall-dancing starts. They had as much time as they needed to bolt it down or whatever there.

Heliomance
2008-06-05, 06:10 PM
With enough ranks in Perform, you can even do this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU)

Signmaker
2008-06-05, 07:00 PM
Well Met, Helio. Well Met.

Jade_Tarem
2008-06-06, 01:11 AM
With enough ranks in Perform, you can do this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU)

Well played, you son of a...
:smallamused:

Rutee
2008-06-06, 01:14 AM
Why can I not find the Dance Fight scene from West Side Story on Youtube? :smallannoyed:

tyckspoon
2008-06-06, 01:46 AM
Why can I not find the Dance Fight scene from West Side Story on Youtube? :smallannoyed:

Maybe you're not being specific enough? There are three or four dance fights throughout the show.. and then other few scenes where the individual gangs practice dance-fighting while they talk about how they're going to dance the other side's faces off.

F.H. Zebedee
2008-06-06, 02:59 PM
Dang... Now I'm gonna need to somehow create a Fred Astaire based character that uses Sojiro-style off the ceiling and walls attacks. Bard/Warblade, right?