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Scintillatus
2008-06-02, 11:07 PM
I'll try to keep this short and sensical; it's been about five hours of roleplaying and combat.

Anyway, tonight Edea, Starsinger, Vortling, SamTheCleric, Tengu and myself sat down, opened up mIRC, and began our first steps into 4th edition, and the Keep on the Shadowfell adventure. I've been enthusiastic about 4e pretty much from the start, and tonight's session has managed to make me even moreso; even without SamTheCleric's substantial DMing and improvisational skills, the combat was extremely engaging, enjoyable, and tense.

To be more specific (and to pump Sam's ego, because he deserves it); Our first couple hours were just some great roleplay, with the DM providing a story hook, in the form of a mysterious and subtle merchant, who might possibly be masterminding our every move. Ahem.

Anyway, we seemed to mesh well as a party right from the start; each player had a distinctive and excellent roleplaying style, and each character seemed to have a strong personality without any constraints imposed by statistics. After this period of interaction (and waiting for Vortling to get back from delicious steaks, I guess) we began combat; the first encounter with the Kobolds.

Now even with a limited map system (OpenRPG fell through before the start, so Sam was forced to use Paint) and us getting to know the mechanics (lots of "do I get such and such bonus? Does this 3.5 rule apply?"), we rapidly got into stride and started working together. One event particularly sticks out; our Wizard using Icy Terrain on our enemies. This actually saved our bacon pretty hard. We had some bad rolls at the start (I got a 1 for my mighty javelin throw of doom), and without that difficult terrain stopping the Kobolds from shifting, they would have rushed after the casters in moments.

In short, the Controller controlled. Her spell had a major effect on how the battle went. Calista, our Paladin using her mark kept the Kobolds focused upon her (she took enough damage for my Warlord to use Inspiring Word to get her back up), and our strikers made judicious use of damage. We meshed as a team, despite our initial failings, and came out on top.

However! We discovered two things today. First, minions HURT. The majority of the damage I took was down to their pointy sticks, and even if they can't roll high on damage - they can't roll LOW, either. That's unpleasant when they're stabbing you. In addition, your enemies can control YOU, and you won't like abilities that require a saving throw. The use of the glue pot kept the Rogue from gaining combat advantage (and thus sneak attack damage), and essentially reduced him to agonising over whether or not to throw his dagger. It was a big deal.

What's worrying me (and exciting the tactical side of me) is that this was a warm-up fight. Later, we're going to deal with much tougher bad guys, and we're going to have to pull some good teamwork off, or we're toast. I'm hoping the addition of a second Leader character will make healing easier for us.

In conclusion: Minions good, Wizards still controllery, combat FUN and engaging, system robust and compelling, my fellow players awesome.

I will report back after a rest with some more, targeted thoughts.

Sir_Dr_D
2008-06-02, 11:17 PM
Thanks for that report. Glad you guys had fun. :smallbiggrin:

Vortling
2008-06-02, 11:20 PM
Actually I'm reserving judgment for the moment. I wasn't around for the RP and I got unlucky in the combat. My rogue sat out most of it under the glue.

Edea
2008-06-02, 11:26 PM
Just be happy the fire pot missed :P.

Lycan 01
2008-06-02, 11:33 PM
Hm. Interesting read. Kinda makes me wanna play 4e. Granted, I've never played DnD, and know little about it...

Wait...

I know what Kobolds are. Does that count for something? :smallbiggrin:


Nah, but seriously, I learned a lot about DnD, and almost got it, but most of the people who would have played pulled out. Of course, I found out 4e was coming out soon, anyway, so it would have been pointless to get it. Now that 4e is coming out, I found myself - once again - considering how fun it would be to play...

I hate my indecisiveness... >.< I also hate that I can't spell that word...


Isn't 4e well-suited for newbies? Who have little-to-no RPG experience?

Scintillatus
2008-06-02, 11:35 PM
I'd say you'd have a MUCH easier time than people like me, who sat down with the 3.5 books and toiled in the math mines of optimizationia.

Lycan 01
2008-06-02, 11:40 PM
How much math is involved? More, less, or same as 3.5e?

How's the roleplaying aspect? I've heard some up and down stuff about that, and I myself love RPing...

What's the importance of miniatures? Can you ignore or substitute something else for them, or are they essentially required?



Sorry, don't want to bug you, but you've got my curious now...



Btw, Hellsing rocks. Between you and Thecountalucard, I kinda want a Hellsing avatar. OotS Anderson, ftw! :smallbiggrin:

Reel On, Love
2008-06-02, 11:55 PM
How much math is involved? More, less, or same as 3.5e?
Less. 4E is streamlined; they did their best to keep combat rounds moving along smoothly.


How's the roleplaying aspect? I've heard some up and down stuff about that, and I myself love RPing...
The only factor that determines how much you roleplay is your group--as always, with D&D.


What's the importance of miniatures? Can you ignore or substitute something else for them, or are they essentially required?
You don't need *minis*, specifically. You do pretty much need figures on a grid, just like in 3.5. You can use little cardboard circles, squares of paper with letters on them, coins, LEGO figures (in fact, that's what I'm gonna do!), etc etc. Just something to represent everyone on the combat map.

Vortling
2008-06-02, 11:55 PM
Just be happy the fire pot missed :P.

I had hitpoints left! I would have prefered getting set on fire if I could have retained mobility!

Edea
2008-06-02, 11:56 PM
This is true. XD


Also, we used colored dots.

Daracaex
2008-06-02, 11:58 PM
How much math is involved? More, less, or same as 3.5e?

How's the roleplaying aspect? I've heard some up and down stuff about that, and I myself love RPing...

What's the importance of miniatures? Can you ignore or substitute something else for them, or are they essentially required?



Sorry, don't want to bug you, but you've got my curious now...



Btw, Hellsing rocks. Between you and Thecountalucard, I kinda want a Hellsing avatar. OotS Anderson, ftw! :smallbiggrin:

I haven't had time to look at in in-depth, but it should be less than 3.x. They made the game less complex, going for the elegance of simplicity. Some people mistake this for "dumbing-down" the game, to quote another thread, but simpler can often be better.

What I've always said about RPGs: Role-Playing Games are unique in that they draw from both the developer and the players. The developers provide the Game, and the players provide the Role-Playing.

Miniatures always make things easier, as will any sort of identifying marker that will fit onto a grid, but they're not required. Just make sure you describe the battlescene more accurately since you're lacking in a visual aid.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't usually mind being bugged. :smallwink:

Yes, Helsing does, indeed, rock.

Xefas
2008-06-02, 11:59 PM
How's the roleplaying aspect? I've heard some up and down stuff about that, and I myself love RPing...

What's the importance of miniatures? Can you ignore or substitute something else for them, or are they essentially required?

If I may jump in, I will say that roleplaying is not inhibited any more than it has been in previous editions. That is, as long as you're willing to switch a few names around (like calling a "Rogue" a "Swashbuckler" or renaming "Sacred Flame" "Hellfire" or whatever) you can do pretty much anything you want roleplay-wise.

As for miniatures, well, my group uses Risk pieces, Monopoly bits, d12s, foreign coins, etc instead of miniatures and it works fine. You can make grid maps pretty easily with only a few dollars in materials, or you spend a whole $15 and buy a good quality double-sided dry-erase D&D mat.

TwystidMynd
2008-06-03, 12:06 AM
I've gotta commend you on the clever usage of Icy Terrain. We were using the pregens when we played, so our wizard was kind of railroaded into being a Striker wanna-be, but even with the leaking of some of the low-level abilities by folks who got their Core books early, I didn't think of the utility of that spell when I read it.
That makes me feel much better about the Wizard, though; I was afraid that the Wizard would be seen as a ranged Striker with AOEs, but that's pretty clearly not the case here.

Glad to hear you guys had fun! Were there any post-worthy tidbits from the chat logs, by chance? I love a good story ;)

TheOOB
2008-06-03, 12:17 AM
How much math is involved? More, less, or same as 3.5e?

How's the roleplaying aspect? I've heard some up and down stuff about that, and I myself love RPing...

What's the importance of miniatures? Can you ignore or substitute something else for them, or are they essentially required?



Sorry, don't want to bug you, but you've got my curious now...



Btw, Hellsing rocks. Between you and Thecountalucard, I kinda want a Hellsing avatar. OotS Anderson, ftw! :smallbiggrin:

The math is simple, just roll a couple of dice, add them together, then add any modifiers. I think the most dice you'll ever be rolling at a time is like 8(in epic tier) unlike 3.x 20+.

Roleplaying is, has been, and always will be based mostly on your group. Unlike 3.x, which had a fair bit of roll playing rules which simply didn't work, 4e has a few guidelines, but mostly leaves it up to the DM to decide when and if a check needs to be called, and what kind of check it is.

As for mini, you'll need a grid of some kind, a laminated piece of grid paper works great, or you can go to chessex or pazio and buy one of the vinyl maps(they are very good, and pazio sells irregular ones with the lines not entirely parelell to the edge of the map but still straight for less then $10). Mini's are cool, but entirely optional. I usually use dice to mark the positions of enemies, and whatever minis I've collected over the years for PCs and important foes.

Suzuro
2008-06-03, 12:17 AM
Also, Ice daggers basically kills Minions instantly, because they automatically take damage on their next turn!


-Suzuro

Edea
2008-06-03, 12:19 AM
I would like to note, though, that even after the encounter spell was cast, I was NOT useless for the rest of the fight. Thunderwave is now my favorite at-will spell.

One other thing: the Minion idea was leaked (we RPed as if our characters didn't know). Next time, we're not going to know who's a minion and who isn't. This particular group's not going to call them out.

Chronicled
2008-06-03, 12:21 AM
What's the importance of miniatures? Can you ignore or substitute something else for them, or are they essentially required?

My group was fond of using a chessboard and its pieces. It worked quite well, and if we wanted something distinctive among them, there was usually someone happy to loan a d12.

Lycan 01
2008-06-03, 12:23 AM
Wow, lots of helpful responses...

Is it true that they got rid of bards?

And are mages/wizards the only ones that can cast spells? I mean, is it impossible to wield a sword and maybe use an occassional spell with the same character?

Suzuro
2008-06-03, 12:27 AM
Well, Bards are supposed to be in the next Player's Hanbook.

As for Spells, it's just what the Wizard and Warlock has, all classes have something like it, whether they be called Exploits or Prayers, it's just abilities.


-Suzuro

Scintillatus
2008-06-03, 12:27 AM
You can multiclass, therefore gaining spellcaster powers.

Bards are in PHB2; the addition of illusions would have made the PHB extremely difficult to balance. I wish they were in too, but my personal preference shouldn't override the balance of the system.

JaxGaret
2008-06-03, 12:31 AM
I would like to note, though, that even after the encounter spell was cast, I was NOT useless for the rest of the fight. Thunderwave is now my favorite at-will spell.

Yeah, Thunderwave is a squishy.. ahem, Wizard's best friend.


One other thing: the Minion idea was leaked (we RPed as if our characters didn't know). Next time, we're not going to know who's a minion and who isn't. This particular group's not going to call them out.

Could you clarify what you mean by this?

Lycan 01
2008-06-03, 12:32 AM
That just seems weird for it to be a fantasy game without bards. I mean, thats like a sci-fi game without robots, or a horror game without monsters...

Not to complain, or anything. But still, that's kinda funny...

Scintillatus
2008-06-03, 12:33 AM
Basically, when I got double-teamed by two of em at the start, Sam didn't roll for damage, despite all the other rolls (to-hit, etc) being rolled in chat. He also rolled for damage when using other monsters, so I concluded that the two spearmen were minions.

And then I smashed one in the face with my shield, breaking his neck. Good times.

Draz74
2008-06-03, 12:33 AM
Is it true that they got rid of bards?

And are mages/wizards the only ones that can cast spells? I mean, is it impossible to wield a sword and maybe use an occassional spell with the same character?

Bards will be in the PHB II in 2009. "Got rid of" might be a bit strong, but they're not in the current 4e rules. Some people say you can approximate them OK with a Warlord who multiclasses to Rogue, Wizard, or Warlock.

The other character you are describing definitely sounds like a Fighter who multiclasses to Wizard (or Warlock).

Lycan 01
2008-06-03, 12:38 AM
Ahhhh, I see... I think my GF, who was interested in playing DnD, and is the main reason I put so much thought into it, is more of the "hack-n-slash-then-burn-it-with-fire" kinda player.

I myself am the kind of player who likes to talk his way through things, and/or hide in the corner and shoot the bad guy in the throat with an arrow. I dunno what that'd be... I'm guessing Rogue?

Edea
2008-06-03, 12:40 AM
Basically, when I got double-teamed by two of em at the start, Sam didn't roll for damage, despite all the other rolls (to-hit, etc) being rolled in chat. He also rolled for damage when using other monsters, so I concluded that the two spearmen were minions.

And then I smashed one in the face with my shield, breaking his neck. Good times.

This @ JaxGaret. Basically we will not be told "THESE enemies over here are minions, but THIS one isn't." We're not treating it like a status condition (Bloodied, however, we are explicitly calling out when it happens).

Xefas
2008-06-03, 01:03 AM
I myself am the kind of player who likes to talk his way through things, and/or hide in the corner and shoot the bad guy in the throat with an arrow. I dunno what that'd be... I'm guessing Rogue?

Ranger, probably. There are two basic kinds of Rangers. The first hides in the corner and shoots the bad guy in the throat with an arrow. The other runs screaming naked into the middle of a mob of bad guys with a meat cleaver in either hand and proceeds to do a mid-air bath in their entrails.

JaxGaret
2008-06-03, 01:03 AM
Some people say you can approximate a Bard OK with a Warlord who multiclasses to Rogue, Wizard, or Warlock.

You can approximate a Kung-Fu Hustle type Bard with the Warlock rather easily, dealing deadly damage to enemies by playing your instrument (reflavored Warlock Implement) at them.

JaxGaret
2008-06-03, 01:05 AM
This @ JaxGaret. Basically we will not be told "THESE enemies over here are minions, but THIS one isn't." We're not treating it like a status condition (Bloodied, however, we are explicitly calling out when it happens).

That's exactly what I'm doing. Minion status is completely a metagame concept, and is not known to the PCs.

I also treat Bloodied as a condition that is readily apparent to everyone. It makes sense and makes the game run more smoothly.

TheOOB
2008-06-03, 01:15 AM
Keep in mind, there are two common themes among all the PHB classes. The first is that they are all clear examples of their archtype(controller, leader, defender, and striker), and the second is that they are all fairly simple and streamlined in their design. Every class has an obvious role in combat and it's fairly obvious how to use each class to near it's full potential.

WotC did this for two reasons, the first is that you need the establish the base archtypes before you can mess around with them, and the second is that simple classes are easier to design.

Now classes like druid, bard, illusionist, psion, and so on, will by their nature play the archtypes and be more difficult to design. Instead of hitting people with heavy metal objects or <insert elemental type here> they will have abilities such as singing, controlling minds, shapeshifting, and so on. It will be less obvious how these classes are supposed to be played, and much harder to design. It would make sense that WotC would want an extra year, not just to make the classes better, but to make the players understand exactally what the basic classes are before making more advanced ones.

JaxGaret
2008-06-03, 01:24 AM
Keep in mind, there are two common themes among all the PHB classes. The first is that they are all clear examples of their archtype(controller, leader, defender, and striker), and the second is that they are all fairly simple and streamlined in their design. Every class has an obvious role in combat and it's fairly obvious how to use each class to near it's full potential.

It's been pointed out several times here in the forum that each class has a very definite secondary role in addition to their primary role, which differentiates the classes a bit more than what you are intimating. Here's the breakdown:

Cleric Leader/Controller
Fighter Defender/Striker
Paladin Defender/Leader
Archery Ranger Striker/Controller
TWF Ranger Striker/Controller (but mostly just Striker)
Rogue Striker/Controller + Skillmonkey
Warlock Striker/Controller + Face
Warlord Leader/Defender
Wizard Controller/Striker

SamTheCleric
2008-06-03, 06:37 AM
*yawn*

I'm glad everyone had a good time. I had a great time running it.

Also, I made a mistake by not rolling the damage ... or rather, rolling where the players could see. If they didn't know that they were minions, they'd have no idea... especially since they -hurt-.

I'd like to think Vortling had a good time even though he was absent for the 2 hours of RP and was glued to the floor for 2 of the 3 rounds of combat... but its ok, we'll play again soon.

I highly recommend IRC for 4e games... I can't imagine doing that with a PbP.

The J Pizzel
2008-06-03, 08:47 AM
Hey Sam, and all the other's who've played: would it be ok to roll a damage dice behind the DM screen for minions (so the players dosee you roll, they just don't see whatyou rolled) and then just give slight variations of the Minions actual damage? That way it wouldn't be so obvious. Example (and this is all hypothetical): lets say PC's are fighting a goblin minion with 3 damage.

Round one: DM rolls a 2d0 and a d6 behind the screen. So the players see me roll an attack and damage dice. Then claim he hits for 3 damage.

Round two: DM rolls both dice and claims he hits for 2 damage (a slight variation of the actual stat.

Round three: Rinse, Lather, Repeat staying roughly +\- 1 from the actual damage.

Would this be ok or would it gimp/tpk the encounter?

jP

SamTheCleric
2008-06-03, 08:49 AM
That's a perfectly reasonable way to do it. I also had them roll damage on the minion, they never quite pinned down how many hp the minions seemed to have.

Also, the reaping strike (Str damage on a miss)... just write something down like you're indicating they were hurt. No way for the PCs to know, nothing breaking that "fourth wall"...

All good times :)

Kabump
2008-06-03, 09:34 AM
Sounds like it was a lot of fun. Im trying to find a group to play 4e online with, either in a VTT or mIRC, seeing as how my current group doesnt seem to want to switch to 4e, despite having not read it :) To be fair, we are playing in our DMs homebrewed world, plus hes broke :) I might lend him my copy of my books, even offer to try and DM (would be my first time) the premade thats out. This way we could still do our 3.5 campaign. I LOVE my swordsage, he seems to have a tendency to use his dance of the spider stance to freak people out in town for a good laugh :)

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-03, 10:43 AM
Ooh, I gots a question!

Which classes were you playing? I desperately want to know how fighters, warlords, and rangers work, since I'm trying to prepare some battleplans involving those classes.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-03, 10:45 AM
We had a Paladin, Warlord, Rogue, Warlock and Wizard. Don't make me try and remember who was playing what... :P

its_all_ogre
2008-06-03, 10:56 AM
you found the fight hard?
we played it, my partner myself and a friend on saturday, slaughtered the kobolds silly!
that said the rogue did nip forwards, spy the kobold slinger and crit'd him so maybe we just had the opposite of your session!
dead slinger before he did anything followed by wizard blasty goodness and two rounds of bad guy misses....
suppose it was fated to be easy for us then!

SamTheCleric
2008-06-03, 10:57 AM
you found the fight hard?
we played it, my partner myself and a friend on saturday, slaughtered the kobolds silly!
that said the rogue did nip forwards, spy the kobold slinger and crit'd him so maybe we just had the opposite of your session!
dead slinger before he did anything followed by wizard blasty goodness and two rounds of bad guy misses....
suppose it was fated to be easy for us then!

I didn't find the fight hard at all... I was the one playing the kobolds... and I wasn't goin' easy on em! :smallbiggrin:

Tengu
2008-06-03, 11:25 AM
Yeah, the kobolds were both clever and sneaky-like and we had bad rolls. I don't think if the fight was very tough though, just challenging and exciting. Looking forward to more of it!

The players were:
Tengu - paladin (crossplaying)
Scintillatus - warlord (Vimes with horns)
Edea - wizard (The Libby in fantasy)
Starsinger - warlock (Shinji, the gay emo kid!)
Vortling - rogue (who probably started to hate glue)

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-03, 11:38 AM
Starsinger - warlock (Shinji, the gay emo kid!)

Wait. If that happened, then...

The System Has Failed.

If he was like Shinji, he was nigh useless during most of the session, except for one teensy little crucial moment. Evidently, the balancing didn't work out. :smalltongue:

kc0bbq
2008-06-03, 11:47 AM
Please update this thread when you get to encounters you considered interesting. I'm interested in seeing other's reactions to a certain one. My players panicked and started off on the wrong foot. It took them a couple rounds to start actually being tactical again. It was beautiful. Felt like low level characters should.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-03, 11:49 AM
Yeah, I'm placing bets on a TPK once you meet... (Spoiler)

Irontooth.

:belkar:

Scintillatus
2008-06-03, 11:51 AM
Can I roll to see if I kill Irontooth?

Edea
2008-06-03, 11:52 AM
I'm -almost- certain we'll be adding Stupnick's Dwarf Cleric to the party next session, as well.

Starsinger
2008-06-03, 11:56 AM
If he was like Shinji, he was nigh useless during most of the session, except for one teensy little crucial moment. Evidently, the balancing didn't work out. :smalltongue:

Well, I did have the highest damage output (Since our other striker, poor Vortling was incapacitated by glue and stuck at melee range.), not to mention I crit twice! Draw from that what you will as to how often I was useful.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-03, 12:05 PM
Well, I did have the highest damage output (Since our other striker, poor Vortling was incapacitated by glue and stuck at melee range.), not to mention I crit twice! Draw from that what you will as to how often I was useful.

Then, Tengu wasn't clear enough. Obviously, he meant berserker Eva Shinji. Makes a lot more sense.

Starsinger
2008-06-03, 12:06 PM
Then, Tengu wasn't clear enough. Obviously, he meant berserker Eva Shinji. Makes a lot more sense.

Actually he's jabbing at my character's personality. Since you can't play a warlock without being emo, you know.

Tengu
2008-06-03, 12:08 PM
Unlike Shinji he wasn't ineffectual (on the contrary, biggest damage output in the group), but he still was a gay emo kid (http://yugiohtheabridgedseries.com/episodes/853462).

Bishonen Exploding Rose Throw!

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-03, 12:09 PM
Actually he's jabbing at my character's personality. Since you can't play a warlock without being emo, you know.

Really? Because my last 3.5 warlock acted like THIS guy.

http://broodslayers.com/images/minsc.jpg

GO FOR THE EYES, BOO! GO FOR THE EYES!

I LOVE CG. Best alignment for crazed paragons of justice ever.

Edea
2008-06-03, 12:11 PM
I hope there's a release soon for familiar support :( . Preferably the non-fragile kind!

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-03, 12:12 PM
I hope there's a release soon for familiar support :( . Preferably the non-fragile kind!

*Points upward to the Miniature Giant Space Hamster*

You mean, something like that?

Edea
2008-06-03, 06:54 PM
Yes, that, minus the miniature part >:D.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-03, 06:57 PM
The thing I enjoyed most about last night is that everyone had fun. I don't care what system you're playing, if you're not having a good time... you shouldn't be playing it. Now I know it was frustrating for Vortling because he missed out on half the session... and was stuck in place for combat... but no one ended the night disappointed. I know its not all related to my DMing skills, because I'm still quite rusty... I was pulling most everything straight out of the module... and it was good stuff.

I can only hope that we play again soon so that the experience can be repeated.

Starsinger
2008-06-03, 07:11 PM
The thing I enjoyed most about last night is that everyone had fun.

Y'know, after reading a bunch of the 4e threads on the front page... I'm starting to think we did something wrong, since we had fun, and apparently you can't do that in 4e. :smallamused:



I can only hope that we play again soon so that the experience can be repeated. We're playing Monday.

Edea
2008-06-03, 07:28 PM
...I just took the Mary Sue test in the other thread. I got a 0, but if for some reason I start turning into one of these horrid things (she DOES have blue hair <_<), please let me know @ Sam.

Rutee
2008-06-03, 07:30 PM
Do y'all know how to make mIRC store logs? They're handy.

Cainen
2008-06-03, 07:31 PM
Do y'all know how to make mIRC store logs? They're handy.

There's a Logging option somewhere in the Tools menu, I think. Haven't used mIRC in so long that I may be off there, but the option is somewhere.

Edea
2008-06-03, 07:32 PM
****, I had logs turned off >_<. Anyone else running IRC that night may still have a log of the chat...

Starsinger
2008-06-03, 07:43 PM
****, I had logs turned off >_<. Anyone else running IRC that night may still have a log of the chat...

Star has logs! Anything in particular you need from them?

Edea
2008-06-03, 07:51 PM
Yay!

As for needing them...well, -me-, not so much (it's nice to just have all of those stored away, maybe in a separate "Campaign_Logs" file or something; that would go for any campaign, though). Mind PMing me those, Starsinger?

Rutee, did you want us posting the actual chat log in here? I dunno if we can do that; isn't it spam?

Starsinger
2008-06-03, 07:53 PM
It's one continuous large fire, would you rather I just send you the notepad file over IRC or something?

Edea
2008-06-03, 07:53 PM
Yeah, I'll just get on real quick, thanks :P.

Scintillatus
2008-06-03, 07:56 PM
Someone could host it. I could slap it up on GDocs.

Cainen
2008-06-03, 07:57 PM
Try a campaign wiki with a log section.

Tengu
2008-06-04, 04:47 AM
I want za log too!

SamTheCleric
2008-06-04, 07:03 AM
Are we getting the logs put anywhere? I'd like to go through them again and see what I messed up on and try to correct next time. (things like revealing the minions, etc)

Jerthanis
2008-06-04, 02:57 PM
My party has actually had something of a problem with combat so far in KotS... It's been too easy!

Sure, we get hit and hurt, but the speed at which we slaughter our foes is just... absurd sometimes. Spoilerd so KotS DMs can comment without spoiling it for potential KotS players:


The cave-fight with the Kobolds was something the DM had warned us would be extremely difficult, and would push us to our last. It was the fight that comes in two waves, with mostly Minions at first, then backup of some tougher Dragonshields, a Wyrmpriest and an elite soldier guy. Well... by the end of the 2nd round there was only a single minion left, and we had a whole round to reposition and heal up before the second wave even hit. I believe my fighter was hit once in the whole ordeal, the boss managed to knock our rogue down to bloodied, and our wizard made an enormous tactical blunder and was saved by the cleric, but otherwise the fight essentially went our way effortlessly.

When we got to the Keep, it was almost exactly as easy. My fighter fell in the rat pit, and jumped right back out again. Aside from the crossbowmen, the goblins went down easy. The Torture Chamber fight was over almost before it began, with the rogue sneak attacking the Hobgoblin with a positioning strike sending him into the Iron Maiden, then he foolishly escaped to go next to the firepit, which the fighter knocked him into. He died and the rest of the goblins surrendered (apparently they were supposed to run away in the module text or something?)

Finally, we were able to sneak up on the chieftain of the goblins and kill him in his sleep... and convince the rest of the goblins to leave without a fight.

Then we saw some Zombies, and despite me being completely stupid and soaking up two unnecessary OAs for more than 20 damage, we also steamrolled this fight. Then we fought a room of Skeletons which was the only difficult fight we saw, because something like 10 or 12 skeletons would spawn every 5 rounds or something, and we only got through that because the Cleric Daily was awesome. We took our extended rest in the room beyond to end the session... but I don't think we really needed to! 3 out of 5 of us hadn't used our dailies yet, and only one of us was at less than half his total number of healing surges. (everyone was at about half)

are we just getting stupidly lucky over and over, or are we just not falling victim to traps and tactics the DM is failing to be able to implement due to poor initiative rolls, poor planning, effective ability use on our part, and so on. Of note is we've got six players running the mod, and the extra also chose fighter, but with Tide of Iron instead of Reaping Strike. (Although our Wizard couldn't make it to the session where we stormed the keep, and most of our surprisingly easy fights came there...) Any advice?

kc0bbq
2008-06-04, 04:09 PM
My party has actually had something of a problem with combat so far in KotS... It's been too easy!If the fights are consistently too easy you could be really lucky, or the DM isn't taking notice of some things, possibly terrain, cover, or just how important some abilities are.

I won't say all of the fights are difficult, but all have at least some challenge to them. You really should be using up powers over the course of them if they're being managed properly by the DM. Even the kobolds have some power to them.

It will be easier one character over XP budget, but not the cakewalk it sounds like.