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View Full Version : Holy crap, Iron Kingdoms is incredible.



Cyclone231
2008-06-04, 08:05 PM
I've owned World Guide and Character Guide for a while now, and obviously I found the tale of the elves' gods interesting, and my other big interest was the Dragonfather, Lord Toruk, for whom the information was woefully inadequate.

Lord Toruk himself lives in the island nation of Cryx, where he is surrounded by his clergy, who find their bodies blighted by his holy divinity and consider this a great blessing, as well as the masses of undead he has beneath him, and then the proles, the common folk who similarly revere the Dragonfather. That's obviously awesome (though he's also evil).

But then the Monsternomicon... well, let me just quote a bit:


Of the extraordinary fauna all throughout this tome, there is one entity I would be remiss not to add. Moreover, it merits an entry akin to its magnitude. This is a creature—if I dare call it such—that dwarfs all other things of the world short of the gods themselves, a creature so deadly and unspeakable that the very mention of such draws out awe in men, elves, and dwarves alike. It is the dragon. Fortunately they are few in number and appear to dislike proximity to civilization.

Dragons in IK are basically evil gods that walk the earth, the Dragonfather being the greatest of them. They cannot be killed forever - when they die, they leave behind their indestructable athanc, which is their soul, a biological component of their body which will bring them back to killing people if they should die. The only way to destroy an athanc is for another dragon to eat it, which adds to that dragons power.

And if you read through the Monsternomicon, you'll find there is even more like this, in terms of ridiculously awesome monsters. The disembodied, priests who never practiced what they preached and often went directly against it in private and weren't punished or caught during their lives live on, clinging to Caen to avoid passing onto the realm of the dead. Iron Liches, who undergo complex processes to blend their undeath with machinery.

Goddammit, I'm real close to picking up Monsternomicon volume 2, even though there's the real possibility that Iron Kingdoms might get republished in 4E. This setting is FANTASTIC. Go check it out.

If you've played/read IK, what elements were your favorite?

Nebo_
2008-06-04, 08:28 PM
This thread makes me happy.

This is what I've been trying to tell everyone for ages. The Iron Kingdoms is freaking fantastic.

The setting, the characters, the history, the writing, the fluff; they're all so far ahead of what WotC puts out, it's amazing. The rules for guns aren't particularly great, and the new classes are balanced against Core (Too weak), but there are plenty of fixes on the Privateer Press forums.

What I really like about the Monsternomicon is that it's written by one of the characters in the setting, Professor Viktor Pendrake, an Adventuring Scholar, so all of the information in it, could be in game knowledge.

Privateer also makes a wargame based in the IK called Warmachine that features lots of steam powered Warjacks beating the crap out of eachother and Gish like characters called Warcasters leading the armies.

All ye who see this, go forth and play Iron Kingdoms, for it is good.

zaei
2008-06-04, 08:39 PM
I concur. IK is freaking awesome. The setting is fantastic, and just oozes flavor, and the mechanics that PP have added are perfect. Definitely my setting of choice, in D&D or out of it.

SurlySeraph
2008-06-04, 08:44 PM
I've never been a big fan of steampunk, but even I have to admit that magical steam-powered powered armor is awesome. Yeah, Iron Kingdoms is great.

EDIT: Oh, and robot liches. Robot liches are awesome.

Nebo_
2008-06-04, 09:04 PM
mechanics that PP have added are perfect.

I disagree there, but what they lack in mechanics, they make up for in pure awesome.

@Cyclone231: There is a lot more information on Toruk and Cryx in general in the Warmachine books.

Cyclone231
2008-06-04, 10:20 PM
I disagree there, but what they lack in mechanics, they make up for in pure awesome.

@Cyclone231: There is a lot more information on Toruk and Cryx in general in the Warmachine books.Hmm. Do the Warmachine books contain significantly more than I can get about Cryx from the World Guide?

I just don't know about purchasing a miniatures book for my obsession with the Dragonfather. I might end up playing Cryx.

Morandir Nailo
2008-06-04, 10:59 PM
I always loved the Monsternomicon, even though I despise steampunk. Iron Liches are cool and I loved the way the book was written by an NPC.

I'd never seen that part about dragons though; I'm totally ganking that for my 4e game. I've always wanted a good in-game reason for dragons to be rare and secretive, and I think I just found it. Dragons gaining power by eating other dragons' souls...that's perfect.

Mor

Jerthanis
2008-06-04, 11:01 PM
Iron Kingdoms is neat, but sometimes I don't think its own flavor meshes well with its own flavor.

At times it seems to be going for a gritty setting of dispair, coal-blackened skies and starving orphans living on streets which belch steam into the night.

Other times the PCs are wielding Crossbows that shoot gears.

It gets points for being a lot like Thief: The Dark Project, but honestly, Thief did it better.

zaei
2008-06-04, 11:01 PM
Dragons gaining power by eating other dragons' souls...that's perfect.

Mor

I learned Japanese in a similar manner.

zaei
2008-06-04, 11:02 PM
Iron Kingdoms is neat, but sometimes I don't think its own flavor meshes well with its own flavor.

At times it seems to be going for a gritty setting of dispair, coal-blackened skies and starving orphans living on streets which belch steam into the night.

Other times the PCs are wielding Crossbows that shoot gears.

It gets points for being a lot like Thief: The Dark Project, but honestly, Thief did it better.

The PCs are too poor to buy actual crossbow bolts.

Dragonmuncher
2008-06-04, 11:05 PM
What's so great about the mechanics?

Nebo_
2008-06-04, 11:16 PM
Iron Kingdoms is neat, but sometimes I don't think its own flavor meshes well with its own flavor.

At times it seems to be going for a gritty setting of dispair, coal-blackened skies and starving orphans living on streets which belch steam into the night.

Other times the PCs are wielding Crossbows that shoot gears.

It gets points for being a lot like Thief: The Dark Project, but honestly, Thief did it better.

I'm not seeing how mechanika doesn't mesh with a dark world. It really depends on how the DM runs it, I suppose, but from what I've played, it all fits in very nicely.


What's so great about the mechanics?

Nothing, really. The rules for guns, while cool, are lackluster compared to bows; they take far too long to reload, so you're better off buying a heap of them. The classes are weak, but easily fixed.

What is good, however, is Mechanika. Magic mixed with technology gives life to many options for items and weaponry.

jcsw
2008-06-05, 01:08 AM
What's so great about the mechanics?

I see what you did there.

---

I don't have Iron Kingdoms, but from what I hear, sounds really fun, although I'm just a fan of steampunk i guess.

Behold_the_Void
2008-06-05, 01:47 AM
I've been interested in this setting for quite some time. Is it going to be seeing a 4e release?

Cyclone231
2008-06-05, 06:32 PM
I've been interested in this setting for quite some time. Is it going to be seeing a 4e release?

It's unknown at this point.

sonofzeal
2008-06-05, 06:44 PM
The fluff is awesome, but the mechanics are generally poor, imo - a lot of the special options available are generally unbalanced in one direction or the other. For example, there's absolutely no reason I can see why anyone short of a Monk wouldn't wear an Armored Greatcoat (+2 armor AC that stacks with whatever you wear under it, and DR 5/bludgeoning, all for pocketchange). On the other hand, the classes themselves are pretty lackluster. My experience is limited though, and I've yet to see a character attempt to use Mechanika in practice.

zaei
2008-06-05, 07:10 PM
I really like the rules for healing and other restrictions on magic in the setting. The rules for magic item creation are also neat. I'm not sure how well it keeps wizards and such in check, but it really does help support the flavor of the setting.

Reinboom
2008-06-05, 07:14 PM
The fluff is awesome, but the mechanics are generally poor, imo - a lot of the special options available are generally unbalanced in one direction or the other. For example, there's absolutely no reason I can see why anyone short of a Monk wouldn't wear an Armored Greatcoat (+2 armor AC that stacks with whatever you wear under it, and DR 5/bludgeoning, all for pocketchange). On the other hand, the classes themselves are pretty lackluster. My experience is limited though, and I've yet to see a character attempt to use Mechanika in practice.

Given this is Privateer Press and, specifically, Warmachine's setting.. the only thing I would like to add to this statement is to say to please read page 5 of the Warmachine Prime: Remix book.

:smalltongue:

sonofzeal
2008-06-05, 07:23 PM
Given this is Privateer Press and, specifically, Warmachine's setting.. the only thing I would like to add to this statement is to say to please read page 5 of the Warmachine Prime: Remix book.

:smalltongue:
All I have is "Iron Kingdoms - Character Guide". Summary?

Cyclone231
2008-06-05, 07:47 PM
All I have is "Iron Kingdoms - Character Guide". Summary?

"Play like you've got a pair!"

sonofzeal
2008-06-05, 08:06 PM
"Play like you've got a pair!"
I'm not sure I understand the relevance. The mechanics just don't seem to be that great, in my experience. I don't see what that has to do with whether or not I "have a pair".

Reinboom
2008-06-05, 08:12 PM
All I have is "Iron Kingdoms - Character Guide". Summary?

Basically..


If you are the type to ever make the statement "that is too powerful", then this game is not for you.

Add in a lengthy (but very well done, and 'artful') description why, a bit of crude language, and constant reinforcement that you are a "pansy".

sonofzeal
2008-06-05, 08:23 PM
Basically..


If you are the type to ever make the statement "that is too powerful", then this game is not for you.

Add in a lengthy (but very well done, and 'artful') description why, a bit of crude language, and constant reinforcement that you are a "pansy".
My problem isn't that it's powerful, it's that it virtually invalidates any other choice. Anyone who can wear Light armor (and most of those who can't) are categorically better off with an Armored Greatcoat, and anybody who isn't wearing one is a total noob and should be laughed at. That, to me, is bad balancing - or rather, it's not balancing at ALL because there's nothing even close to the other end of the scale. Remove the DR and raise the ACP to -3, and it's still good but at least there'd be reasons not to wear it.

Seriously, I like high powered games, but any option that's so ludicrously good that no other comparable choice comes to mind (Devotion feats, Bracers of True Strike, and Create Water inside someone's lungs, are in this category IMO) are, well, a flaw. I haven't read Iron Kingdoms extensively, but I can't imagine any sane DM allowing that particular item in a normal game.

Reinboom
2008-06-05, 08:46 PM
My problem isn't that it's powerful, it's that it virtually invalidates any other choice. Anyone who can wear Light armor (and most of those who can't) are categorically better off with an Armored Greatcoat, and anybody who isn't wearing one is a total noob and should be laughed at. That, to me, is bad balancing - or rather, it's not balancing at ALL because there's nothing even close to the other end of the scale. Remove the DR and raise the ACP to -3, and it's still good but at least there'd be reasons not to wear it.

Seriously, I like high powered games, but any option that's so ludicrously good that no other comparable choice comes to mind (Devotion feats, Bracers of True Strike, and Create Water inside someone's lungs, are in this category IMO) are, well, a flaw. I haven't read Iron Kingdoms extensively, but I can't imagine any sane DM allowing that particular item in a normal game.

Yes, it does sound silly.
However, my original comment was a joke that was in hope that you were a warmachine player.

sonofzeal
2008-06-05, 08:51 PM
Yes, it does sound silly.
However, my original comment was a joke that was in hope that you were a warmachine player.
Ah. Carry on then. :smallcool:

Nebo_
2008-06-05, 08:52 PM
The fluff is awesome, but the mechanics are generally poor, imo - a lot of the special options available are generally unbalanced in one direction or the other. For example, there's absolutely no reason I can see why anyone short of a Monk wouldn't wear an Armored Greatcoat (+2 armor AC that stacks with whatever you wear under it, and DR 5/bludgeoning, all for pocketchange). On the other hand, the classes themselves are pretty lackluster. My experience is limited though, and I've yet to see a character attempt to use Mechanika in practice.

I'm pretty sure the point of that is to make everyone wear greatcoats. Greatcoats are just plain cool, so if the mechaincs are good, then people will be more likely to wear them. I'm also about 70% sure that they were errata'd to DR 3/Bludgeoning.

sonofzeal
2008-06-05, 09:06 PM
I'm pretty sure the point of that is to make everyone wear greatcoats. Greatcoats are just plain cool, so if the mechaincs are good, then people will be more likely to wear them. I'm also about 70% sure that they were errata'd to DR 3/Bludgeoning.
Are you thinking of Reinforced Greatcoats, which have DR "3/Bludgeoning or Slashing"?

In any case, they ARE pretty cool, but "coolness" is usually its own motivation to use things like that. Personally, if I was making them I'd leave it at a basic one that gives +1 armor for -2 ACP. That's a fair trade for most characters.

Anywho, yeah, tangent. Iron Kingdoms gets a 9.5/10 from me for Fluff, and 5/10 for Crunch - mediocre but salvagable. All in all I think it's one of the better 3rd Party Settings/Suppliments I've seen (still loses out to Kestrel's BoEF for sheer "omg this is all now CANON in any game I run" factor). I'd like to see a full Iron Kingdoms campaign eventually - all I've seen so far is a custom setting that uses some IK gear/mechanika and one PC who's a Bodger.

Nebo_
2008-06-05, 09:22 PM
Anywho, yeah, tangent. Iron Kingdoms gets a 9.5/10 from me for Fluff, and 5/10 for Crunch - mediocre but salvagable.

Yeah, I can agree to that. I'm not sure if it's made by the same people who did the d20, but the wargame that PP makes has both fluff and crunch in extremely hight quality. It's a shame the d20 version couldn't be the same.

Cyclone231
2008-06-05, 09:37 PM
I have an important question - why do they bother putting in the stats of dragons? I mean, Jesus, Scaefang's got a CR of sixty. Who's going to take their adventuring party against him?

Nebo_
2008-06-05, 10:01 PM
I have an important question - why do they bother putting in the stats of dragons? I mean, Jesus, Scaefang's got a CR of sixty. Who's going to take their adventuring party against him?

The adventurers might mess with a dragon's plans, but I can't see them going up against a dragon unless they're well into the epic levels. But at that point, the dragons will need to be restatted, because the CRs listed are far, far too high.

As an aside, I love the picture of Toruk in the Monsternomicon.