4E GitP World-Building: Basic Setting and Themes

[Cyclone231]

Over the course of time, the Tears of Blood setting has become gradually more and more well-defined (a good thing) and a lot more inactive (a bad thing). I've attempted a couple times to start a new one, but it had the disadvantage of lacking a broad base like ToB in its early days. Since the release of Fourth Edition to the general public today, I feel this is the best time to begin anew. Another major flaw was the lack of a clear direction early on in both those threads. As such, this thread will be for discussion of themes, the key setting elements, and so forth until (or if) a significant amount of discussion has happened, whereupon it will be put to a vote. These elements really helped define the ToB setting early on and gave it a concrete vision.


If a settin is to be anything beyond a collection of idiosyncratic preferences, it needs a guiding Tone (and/or Theme). I propose we establish such a theme so that our varied efforts feel thematically whole when combined.

Topics of discussion:
How common should magic be in the setting?

How powerful should magic be in the setting?

How close to the historical real-world should the setting's politics be?

What themes and setting elements should part to the setting, and what ones shouldn't?

I have a list of tones/themes/setting elements that could be used, though I'm certain that I've missed plenty. Feel free to make further suggestions, or offer more specific versions of current suggestions (a new ice age for Apocalypse, fallen empire for Change, a cabal of vampires are in charge for Underdogs, et cetera)
Grim: Day-to-day survival is a question, death is common, and societal infrastructure is frequently malicious.

Safe: Beyond the occasional scare, the average citizen is well protected and secure in their livelihood.

Unknown: The world at large is an enigma. Either the humanity has never bothered exploring it, or it has lost knowledge of its contents.

War: There is a war on between major powers, and while it may not strike at the homes of the average civilian, it certainly provides a backdrop for adventure.

Enemy Within: Though humanity may be well fortified (or not), there are many who live within its borders and want to destroy it.

Cold War: Two nations are in conflict, but have not engaged in open war due to its inherent risks. The possibility of an open war is always in the air, and the players can easily get wrapped up in something much bigger than themselves.

Morally Ambiguous: Villains are common and powerful, and they are frequently indistinguishable from "heroes".

Apocalyptic: The world is ending, or has ended. The old methods of life are outmoded, and change is necessary to survival.

Morally Clear: Villains are insidious and obvious by their mindless malice, skull-adorned clothing and nihilistic suicidal tendencies, the heroes are clear and the good guys always win.

Underdogs: The heroes are up against the status quo, with villainous leaders. They may be rebels, or they may just be looking to survive.

Change: A major, world-altering change has happened fairly recently, and the world will never be the same. It might be a political change (revolution, breaking of an empire), a scientific or industrial change (the discovery of arcane magic, the development of the assembly line) or a religious change (schism, death of a god). This change need not directly effect the whole world - just where the cradle of adventuring (like how the Industrial Revolution of Iron Kingdoms has only really effected the human kingdoms in Western Immoren).

My personal thought is that an interesting Change would be that until very recently, humanity has been organized into tribes and bands, and then the Grand Empire (human, undead, elven or whatever) came along and absorbed all their tribes and bands into itself.

[Vadin]

My vote goes for arcane magic being uncommon, but much more common than divine magic.

Magic shouldn't really be all that much more powerful than other things, but it should focus on doing really different things.

No vote on the historical politics thing. That could work any way at all.

Some themes I would be all for are Safe, War, Morally Ambiguous, Underdogs, and Change.

Building on that idea about tribes you mentioned, the new empire is recruiting a few youths at a time from every sufficiently large village. The youths supposedly go off to fight a 'brutal war'. Apparently, most of them die. Though everyone knows someone who knows someone whose son has come back and told about how terrible the war is, no one knows any of these kids personally. Everyone agrees, however, that the men in charge must know what they're doing, and the children are certainly fighting for a good cause. Maybe they'll be back in a few years or so. More likely, though, is that they'll give their lives 'fighting the good fight'.

Why are the leaders of this new empire demanding war? Where are the kids going when they get recruited? And who, exactly, are they fighting against?

[Cyclone231]

My votes go for:
Magic is rarely powerful, but low powered magic is pretty common (not to Eberron levels or anything - it's still "magical," and isn't treated as something commonplace or "normal;" it's special and deserving of respect).

Low-to-no fidelity social structures. Devils, undead, dragons and mages can be in charge, but portrayed in a reasonable way.

In terms of themes, I like Grim, Unknown, Cold War, Apocalyptic, Change.


Building on that idea about tribes you mentioned, the new empire is recruiting a few youths at a time from every sufficiently large village. The youths supposedly go off to fight a 'brutal war'. Apparently, most of them die. Though everyone knows someone who knows someone whose son has come back and told about how terrible the war is, no one knows any of these kids personally. Everyone agrees, however, that the men in charge must know what they're doing, and the children are certainly fighting for a good cause. Maybe they'll be back in a few years or so. More likely, though, is that they'll give their lives 'fighting the good fight'.

Why are the leaders of this new empire demanding war? Where are the kids going when they get recruited? And who, exactly, are they fighting against?I don't know... feels too much like an over-arching mystery. I mean, in plenty of settings there are mysteries (what happened to Cyre? What slew the elven gods save Scyrah and Nyssor?), but this seems pretty damn central to a campaign. Hard to imagine much of a campaign set in the area that doesn't spend some significant amount of time on the subject and it is a setting rather than a single campaign, so you can't really build much around it.

[Eerie]

I have several ideas that you might find interesting.

1. A world where rapid progress is taking place, either technological or magical (in the end, it is the same thing). Something like... today. :smallsmile:

2. A world where absolutely everyone can use some magic.

[Vadin]

Hard to imagine much of a campaign set in the area that doesn't spend some significant amount of time on the subject and it is a setting rather than a single campaign, so you can't really build much around it.

Yes, I see. Its the kind of thing that could fit into a world where powerful beings run societies, too. It could happen in a small kingdom recently taken over by powerful vampire lords. But yeah, thats a campaign thing, not a setting thing.

So...yeah. Powerful beings rule the less powerful races, but not offensively so. After it happened several times, the dragons and demons realized that, while they might ultimately win, massive rebel uprisings were really just too much trouble to deal with.

Also, Aztecan eladrin. It totally works. I can see eladrin as a race split between the Fae Empire loyals and refugees who oppose their brutal tactics, cast out of the Empire, left alive to spread tales of its horrible deeds.

Also, semi-unrelated, but are elves half-human, half-eladrin? And does that make half-elves quarter-eladrin?

[Eerie]

Also, semi-unrelated, but are elves half-human, half-eladrin? And does that make half-elves quarter-eladrin?

Here is another suggestion: setting with realistic biology.

All races are actually one species with a huge dispersion of the gene pool. Hence, everyone can mate with everyone, and no such stupid terms as half-carrot exists. If human mates with a dragonspawn, the child can be any one of the millions of possible combinations.

[Eerie]

Mau I point you to another idea of mine: Monster Ghetto (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3665128&posted=1#post3665128).

[Zeta Kai]

How common should magic be in the setting?

How powerful should magic be in the setting?

How close to the historical real-world should the setting's politics be?

What themes and setting elements should part to the setting, and what ones shouldn't?

Magic should be rare, but very powerful where it is encountered. It should mostly be represented as relics of a past era that is long past.

The setting's politics should be original, but loosely based on historical events, so that believable reactions can take place (example: king dies without an heir -> squabble for the throne among the nobles -> civil war -> part of the nation conquered by opportunistic barbarians).

As far as themes, here's a chiched concept, with an interesting twist:

Decades ago, a massive disaster nearly destroyed the world. Nearly all sentient life was wiped out (non-sentient flora & fauna were unharmed). Only tiny pockets of sentients remain, protected by powerful anti-magic obelisks. These obelisks (which emit antimagic fields 1d10X500' in diameter) originally were built by a massive empire to mark the borders of their domain. The empire was wiped out in the Cataclysm, but their obelisks remained, saving the lucky survivors from certain death.

The Human pocket has thrived & prospered since the cataclysm, but its growth is now spreading beyond the edge of antimagic protection; their leaders have commissioned explorers to seek out other surviving zones. The nearby Elven pocket is in turmoil: their obelisk is failing, & although the Cataclysm was a one-time disaster, they still fear the lack of protection, & so they too seek shelter elsewhere.

No one remembers how many obelisks there were, or if other means existed to weather the Cataclysm, or what caused the disaster in the first place, but for those who dare to brave the wilderness, the answers lie hidden in shadows...

This is a typical "after the fall" kind of campaign concept, but there are a few twists on the idea: the survivors don't need to struggle to survive, the pockets are few & far between, the land between has fallen into ruin, but life still thrives everywhere so mostly the old cities are affected, & there is a strong incentive to explore & leave the safety of the obelisks. Also, magic is non-existant within the safety zones, but is possible elsewhere, so low-magic campaigns are enforced by the separation.

PEACH

[Azerian Kelimon]

My take on how the setting should be:

1) Magic should be common. Very common. MAYBE not to the "magic is cheap" level of 3.5, but people who haven't lived in a tupperware should have heard of it and seen it, and arcanists and clerics are respected and accepted members of society.

2) Magic should be as powerful as presented in the new PHB, no more, and no less.

3) As close as it is necessary. Which is to say, the setting should have it's own politics, divorced from those of the real world. Whatever similarities happen should be coincidences.

4) The themes should be Safe (There is law enforcement made of reasonably high leveled characters, and the rulers who didn't inherit the throne should be off the charts in power, as fits someone who made it to the top), Cold War (But not among ALL the nations, just a few), Change (We could use it to introduce the Dragonborn as major players, or to explain the rise to prominence of the tieflings), and my own little theme, Practical. A world with Practical would be one where the rulers actually looked at what magic can do and said "Hey, why are we wasting so much land on farming? We could mass produce items of food creation and eliminate famine forever!", for example. It's ridiculous that the governments never try to get some use out of magic, when anyone reasonably intelligent will have noticed what can be done with it.

[gareth]

Here's some suggestions:
Monotheism All divine powers come from a single god. Other gods are worshipped, but they don't exist and don't grant powers. Characters with divine power can't fight each other.

Civilisation All the productive parts of the world are under the control of a handful of large, highly organised states. There are wildernesses and lawless areas, but only in very unproductive areas like the interior of jungles, deserts, and tundra. Of course there's plenty of crime and intrigue inside the states.

Monsters are rare. The civilisations have tried very hard to exterminate monsters within their territory, and mostly succeeded.

Behaviour matters. Several classes require codes of behaviour from the characters. Violation of the codes stops the class powers from working, either temporarily or permanently.

[InaVegt]

I like Zeta Kai's idea, with a few twists and ideas.

1. Sentient life wasn't destroyed outside the obelisks, just twisted. Doing the following:

Humans were twisted into Orcs
Elves were twisted into Drow
Halflings were twisted into Goblins
Dragonborn were twisted into Kobolds

Need to find more matches for the other races though. Drorcs shouldn't exist though.

2. While the monoliths protected the people inside the antimagic, their power was undone by the cataclyst.

3. The old empire was a magocracy, as such, people fear magic was to blame for the cataclysm. Magic is feared and distrusted.

4. After the cataclysm, the gods didn't help the people, making worship of them much rarer.

5. The twisted races are much more numerous than the 'pure' races, however, they battle eachother and are unorganized too much to have any interest in doing more than half baked attempts to conquer such small plots of land as the save pockets.

[Sequinox]

I agree with Zeta Kai and Gezina, but somewhere in between. For example, some life was twisted and some just killed. But I like the idea that eve though its a after the fall world, most of the major cities are still inhabited.

Let this world become gitp's next Tears of Blood!

[Zeta Kai]

I like Zeta Kai's idea, with a few twists and ideas.

Good counter-thoughts, Gezina; very creative notions. I just have a few notes:

1) I think the twisting, idea that you have. That's brilliant. Although I do agree with Sequinox that the Cataclysm should have been largely fatal, & those few (1-5%) who actually managed to live through the hellish storms became warped into evil fiends. Perhaps a simple template could be devised for transforming a pre-Cataclysm creature into its fiendish counterpart.

2) I like the idea of some obelisks being damaged by the Cataclysm, but I'm not sure if they should have been utterly broken by it. Otherwise, what would the incentive be for the survivors to remain within their anti-magic influence while they rebuild? Fear of the fiends outside & a possible second Cataclysm may not be enough.

3) A magic-infused Old Empire is exactly what I had in mind. Tons of magical items & artifacts would be left behind, along with many wondrous locations which could slowly be falling into ruin. Magical libraries & crypts could even hold secrets, which could in turn provide clues to what caused the Cataclysm (or bring about a new one if uncovered).

This also provides a rationale for the obelisks: they were placed on the borders of the Old Empire to keep their equally magical enemies at bay. The Cataclysm could have been caused by a war between magocratic states, or an epic magical accident, or a terrorist act out of control. Think of the entire continent like the Mournland in Eberron, but without the healing suppression.

4) This is also a great idea. This prevents divine magic from filing the power vacuum left behind by the fear of arcane magic. No magic works within range of the obelisks, & the people fear magic of all sources. The gods didn't save the people, nor did the arcane might of the Old Empire; simple fate did. And so magic won't be trusted in any form.

5) I dunno if the fiends should be more numerous than the Survivors. They should of course be far more dangerous, & I agree that they should fight each other as much as (if not more than) the Survivors, but I feel like the Cataclysm loses its punch if so many creatures live through it (no matter how twisted).

[Cyclone231]

2) Magic should be as powerful as presented in the new PHB, no more, and no less.Well, obviously, but what power level should be the typical mage? Is the typical mage an aged arcanist with access to ancient secrets and a challenge to a level twenty party or is he a young professional who can get beat up with ease by a handful of hoodlums? Is the typical magic item an ancient weapon touched by the gods themselves, or a mass-produced piece of mystical junk?

On the "post-Cataclysm" idea, how about there being surviving external (though distant) civilizations? As in, while the Empire was vast, it wasn't the only civilization around.

[Zeta Kai]

On the "post-Cataclysm" idea, how about there being surviving external (though distant) civilizations? As in, while the Empire was vast, it wasn't the only civilization around.

Well, I suppose that'd be fine, as long as they were distant enough to avoid major intervention & frequent contact with the human/elven/etc Survivors. Too much contact would dilute the "Rebuilding the World" theme, & major intervention would probably beg the question of why the unharmed civilization hasn't tried to conquer &/or plunder the devastated former empire.

Distant untouched civilizations would add a nice variety to the setting, radically different from the tone of campaigning on the main continent. That's a good thing, as long as it doesn't adulterate the main themes. Why? What distant civilizations are you suggesting? An island of Raptorans? A mind flayer slave nation in the southern seas? An Oriental Adventures type continent on the other side of the globe? A fae-folk land of mists & shadows?

[Cyclone231]

Well, I suppose that'd be fine, as long as they were distant enough to avoid major intervention & frequent contact with the human/elven/etc Survivors. Too much contact would dilute the "Rebuilding the World" theme, & major intervention would probably beg the question of why the unharmed civilization hasn't tried to conquer &/or plunder the devastated former empire.

Distant untouched civilizations would add a nice variety to the setting, radically different from the tone of campaigning on the main continent. That's a good thing, as long as it doesn't adulterate the main themes. Why? What distant civilizations are you suggesting? An island of Raptorans? A mind flayer slave nation in the southern seas? An Oriental Adventures type continent on the other side of the globe? A fae-folk land of mists & shadows?I was thinking more along the lines of distant dwarven isolationists in the far eastern mountain range or gnome sorcerer tribes in the harsh north. Something that might not feel too off as a main civilization/ethnic group in another setting, but one of those ones that doesn't interact much with the mainlands other than occasionally spitting up a couple adventurers/villains.

[InaVegt]

Good counter-thoughts, Gezina; very creative notions. I just have a few notes:

1) I think the twisting, idea that you have. That's brilliant. Although I do agree with Sequinox that the Cataclysm should have been largely fatal, & those few (1-5%) who actually managed to live through the hellish storms became warped into evil fiends. Perhaps a simple template could be devised for transforming a pre-Cataclysm creature into its fiendish counterpart.
Would certainly be a good possibility.

2) I like the idea of some obelisks being damaged by the Cataclysm, but I'm not sure if they should have been utterly broken by it. Otherwise, what would the incentive be for the survivors to remain within their anti-magic influence while they rebuild? Fear of the fiends outside & a possible second Cataclysm may not be enough.
I wouldn't mind the obelisks having some effect, as long as players will be able to use magic inside the obelisk's influence, otherwise nobody will play a magic user.

3) A magic-infused Old Empire is exactly what I had in mind. Tons of magical items & artifacts would be left behind, along with many wondrous locations which could slowly be falling into ruin. Magical libraries & crypts could even hold secrets, which could in turn provide clues to what caused the Cataclysm (or bring about a new one if uncovered).
Exactly my idea.

This also provides a rationale for the obelisks: they were placed on the borders of the Old Empire to keep their equally magical enemies at bay. The Cataclysm could have been caused by a war between magocratic states, or an epic magical accident, or a terrorist act out of control. Think of the entire continent like the Mournland in Eberron, but without the healing suppression.
I like an epic magical accident (details to be worked out)

4) This is also a great idea. This prevents divine magic from filing the power vacuum left behind by the fear of arcane magic. No magic works within range of the obelisks, & the people fear magic of all sources. The gods didn't save the people, nor did the arcane might of the Old Empire; simple fate did. And so magic won't be trusted in any form.
Except for magic not working, my idea.

5) I dunno if the fiends should be more numerous than the Survivors. They should of course be far more dangerous, & I agree that they should fight each other as much as (if not more than) the Survivors, but I feel like the Cataclysm loses its punch if so many creatures live through it (no matter how twisted).
Let's say 1% of the empire's inhabitants lived near the obelisks. And there was roughly a 5% chance to survive the cataclysm. That means there are roughly (not precisely) 5 times as many fiends as the people of the standard races.

5% chance to survive, on a large scale, is massive.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Well, obviously, but what power level should be the typical mage? Is the typical mage an aged arcanist with access to ancient secrets and a challenge to a level twenty party or is he a young professional who can get beat up with ease by a handful of hoodlums? Is the typical magic item an ancient weapon touched by the gods themselves, or a mass-produced piece of mystical junk?

On the "post-Cataclysm" idea, how about there being surviving external (though distant) civilizations? As in, while the Empire was vast, it wasn't the only civilization around.

The whole range. The typical arcanist is probably someone studying in a wizards guild, climbing up the ranks and learning many arcane secrets with no practical use. The beginners are weak and could be messed up by hoodlums, but the freelance advanturers who have seen it all are suitably epic.

Also, I'll throw an idea for a distant civilization: A mindflayer empire that has found a way to get brains without having to make cattle out of other races.

[Maroon]

The 'massive war, large areas uninhabitable, life twisted into strange and terrifying forms' really reminds me of the setting of "This Immortal" by Zelazny. Basically, on a future earth, every major landmass has been nuked, and humanity is living on the fringes, mainly untouched coastlines and islands (and also as second-class immigrants on other planets). Any place that doesn't consist entirely of radioactive mud is populated by mutants, either animal in origin or not-quite-human. Strangely, some of these mutants resemble mythical creatures, to the extend that mainland Greece is filled with fauns and pegasi and stuff.

Now replace 'nuke' with 'magical obelisk'. The obelisks were designed to protect the empire, but something went wrong and they warped the surrounding lands, or just blew up. Humanity is safe outside of the field of influence of the obelisks, but once they come too close something unpleasant happens, even if it's just being attacked by warped creatures. Maybe one obelisk shifted a city to the elemental plane of fire, while another simply exploded and scattered 'radioactive' chunks of magic crystal/metal/concrete across the countryside, and yet another plunged a large island into the ocean. Maybe there are still 'warp storms' raging around the larger obelisks. Humans affected by the obelisk are not necessarily evil, but most are rather 'off' compared to untouched humans, and are maybe more than a little distrustful towards the people that made them that way. Others are really just out to kill you, and others aren't really human but are just pretending to be, again, to kill you. Then there are the huge amounts of warped animals who are just really, really hungry. Possibly, most magical ability is a direct result of being exposed to the magical obelisks, and 'pure' humans are not natively able to do magic, and, somewhat rightly, fear it. Some newly established (island) nations simply refuse to allow anything magical to cross their borders, while others have little option but to endorse it to defend against magical enemies.

So we have humans living in remote areas, being disliked by the majority of the demihumans, hunted by monsters and fearing magic. Most of the continent is really dangerous, or outright lethal. Adventurers instead seek out these dangers to get their hands on magical items and arcane secrets. It sort of goes along with the 'points of light' shtick of 4E, but it goes a little deeper than 'outside is scary, there's, like, monsters and stuff'.

[Mewtarthio]

I like an epic magical accident (details to be worked out)

One possibility: As the empire grew decadent, residuum and magic items were taxed away from the outlying territories as brought to the capital city. Here, they were used to make extravagant magical wonders for the corrupt nobles, or else simply horded by a miserly emperor. Eventually, however, the large amount of magic (in items and residuum) reached a critical mass, and the capital became a sort of powder keg. There could be one particular event that triggered the Cataclysm (say, magic in the area simply became more dangerous--though magic items remained perfectly safe--until someone launched a very large and nasty spell at the capital, which wound up getting amplified a thousand fold), or it could just be that one day everything simply ended.

[Azerian Kelimon]

One possibility: As the empire grew decadent, residuum and magic items were taxed away from the outlying territories as brought to the capital city. Here, they were used to make extravagant magical wonders for the corrupt nobles, or else simply horded by a miserly emperor. Eventually, however, the large amount of magic (in items and residuum) reached a critical mass, and the capital became a sort of powder keg. There could be one particular event that triggered the Cataclysm (say, magic in the area simply became more dangerous--though magic items remained perfectly safe--until someone launched a very large and nasty spell at the capital, which wound up getting amplified a thousand fold), or it could just be that one day everything simply ended.

Hmm...reminds me of Rifts.

Hey, THAT would be an excellent idea for a cataclysm. Taking what you said, let's imagine, for example, that each hamlet had an arcanist or cleric, even if it was a low leveled one. One day, in the capital or some other population center, an experiment with residuum went horribly wrong, turning the residuum into a really powerful bomb. The explosion caused a chain reaction, which swept across the countryside.

However, that was only the beginning. The areas where a residuum bomb went off acquired some...properties. Possibly, staying long enough in them snuffs the life out of people, or they're dead to any kind of magic, or, etc.

Of course, this would limit the effects to a single continent. So, what happens to the survivors? Do they emigrate into an island or a new continent? Do they stay and try to survive in the magical wasteland?

[Draz74]

Mau I point you to another idea of mine: Monster Ghetto (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3665128&posted=1#post3665128).

I guess I'm a little late (6 months) to say so, but I like it.

On the topic of this thread, I think I like the idea that the Obelisks (originally to guard the Empire's border) protected the people from a worldwide disaster, rather than the Obelisks or a Residuum chain reaction being the disaster.

Remember that the culture that has grown up around the Obelisks in the post-apocalyptic setting would be started by the kinds of people who would have lived near the Empire's borders before. Mostly pioneering farmers and adventurers (some of them criminals), with a few soldiers too.

I'm in favor of the Obelisks still having some kind of anti-magic powers remaining. It will be difficult to make sure spellcasting PCs aren't too weak for parts of the campaign, but IMHO it's worth it because it makes the setting so distinctive. I've never before heard of an otherwise high-magic (i.e., normal D&D levels) world, where large areas of important locations were in Antimagic Fields. That would certainly prevent an Eberron-esque "magic as technology" society from springing up! And it would give spellcasters, including PCs, a strong motivation to get out of civilized lands and adventure (and to be careful to avoid violent conflict when they do have to go into the Obelisk-centered communities).

In fact, I really like the idea that the few arcane academies and temples that have been (re-)founded since the Cataclysm would have to be founded outside the "safe zone." They would have to be veritable fortresses, constantly on the defense against the monsters that now roam these territories. And the casters' isolationist tendency could further explain the normal people's distrust of magic.

Maybe, in some communities, the spellcasters have even managed to conceal the fact that they can't do magic near the Obelisks. So they are under a constant quest to keep that a secret and intimidate everyone into thinking they are mighty casters with no weaknesses. I would love to see a tyrant Warlock who rules his town solely on the basis of his arcane might ... but has to hide the fact that he has to leave town to use any of his magic power.

[Moff Chumley]

I have a gripe with the developing setting: more or less every setting I have ever seen is either in decline or post decline. Ebberon, Forgotten Realms (about eight times over), assumed 4e setting, and ToB. It's just not realistic, and it's rather cliche. I propose a setting in all its glory, at full power, with several large nations and countless smaller ones, with wars and strained alliances the world over, and magic in its various forms about half as common and twice as feared as the arts of martial combat. I think this is quite a bit more original than yet another post decline setting.

Or, to be more productive, we could use the ideas for the developing setting, but progress it by several generations, where there are several relatively powerful nations in an arms race to acquire the old nation's magic, and several dozen small colonies.

[Azerian Kelimon]

I have a gripe with the developing setting: more or less every setting I have ever seen is either in decline or post decline. Ebberon, Forgotten Realms (about eight times over), assumed 4e setting, and ToB. It's just not realistic, and it's rather cliche. I propose a setting in all its glory, at full power, with several large nations and countless smaller ones, with wars and strained alliances the world over, and magic in its various forms about half as common and twice as feared as the arts of martial combat. I think this is quite a bit more original than yet another post decline setting.

Or, to be more productive, we could use the ideas for the developing setting, but progress it by several generations, where there are several relatively powerful nations in an arms race to acquire the old nation's magic, and several dozen small colonies.

+1'ed. Riftslike settings are nice, but when they're not pulled off with tons of style they're very cliché. Meanwhile, adventures in a place where everything is okay, nice and clean, and not GRIMDARK just to follow the leader would be a very refreshing concept, and it would have an air of Reconstruction.

[Arakune]

How common should magic be in the setting?
Common and rare. The common type of magic are things you can buy in the ol' magic shop (healing potions and such) that is run by a low level, middle level retired wizard. Rare things are world shattering apocalyptic prophetic ritual things (like the Gate or Planar Binding line spells) that need special places/time/sacrifices in order to activate.

How powerful should magic be in the setting?
For the common side part of magic, things that imitate technology: lighters, etc. For the apocalyptic line, it's multiverse chaos and carnage.

How close to the historical real-world should the setting's politics be?
Depends on the theme, but since people will be always people, some closeness to RL politics could be nice.

THEMES:

Grim (it's iron-dark ages), Unknown (for the vast majority of the common folk and even some famous adventures), War/Cold War (because it must), Morally Ambiguous (same as before, but more common in the upper end of the politics), Underdogs THEN Change.

[Cyclone231]

I have a gripe with the developing setting: more or less every setting I have ever seen is either in decline or post decline. Ebberon, Forgotten Realms (about eight times over), assumed 4e setting, and ToB. It's just not realistic, and it's rather cliche. I propose a setting in all its glory, at full power, with several large nations and countless smaller ones, with wars and strained alliances the world over, and magic in its various forms about half as common and twice as feared as the arts of martial combat. I think this is quite a bit more original than yet another post decline setting.How about this for an "incline" setting: The Grand Empire (or empires) comes in, spreading its civilized ways into once-savage lands. Could be something akin to the European Age of Discovery, or to the Roman Empire's expansion or something else.

[Sequinox]

I like both ideas that are being used right now, and whoever-it-was had a good point: decline/post apocalyptic are overdone. Stephen King did it right in the Dark Tower: How about the areas in the obelisks range are fertile and permit only low leveled spells (if they exist in 4e. Stupid Amazon for not getting me the books yet...) and out of the range of the obelisks are dead lands with cracked, dry soil and the ruined cities are like Lud from the Dark Tower 3. Without the dead bodies on lightposts. Or a suicidal train. Actually, we could do that: A train that goes to Topeka (a city on the other side of the world that didn't get affected by the Cataclysm) but will kill the party in a suicide gone wrong unless they beat it in a riddling competition?

By telling it the one about the dead baby stapled to the chicken

And the evil inhabitants of the cities are the twisted races (duergar, drow, kobolds, etc.) and the humans evil opposites are humans? But very evil and twisted?

And for the magic, how about done in secret in towers or dungeons run by guilds of wizards/clerics/other casters?

*phew* that makes two megaposts in one day...

[Sequinox]

I like both ideas that are being used right now, and whoever-it-was had a good point: decline/post apocalyptic are overdone. Stephen King did it right in the Dark Tower: How about the areas in the obelisks range are fertile and permit only low leveled spells (if they exist in 4e. Stupid Amazon for not getting me the books yet...) and out of the range of the obelisks are dead lands with cracked, dry soil and the ruined cities are like Lud from the Dark Tower 3. Without the dead bodies on lightposts. Or a suicidal train. Actually, we could do that: A train that goes to Topeka (a city on the other side of the world that didn't get affected by the Cataclysm) but will kill the party in a suicide gone wrong unless they beat it in a riddling competition?

By telling it the one about the dead baby stapled to the chicken

And the evil inhabitants of the cities are the twisted races (duergar, drow, kobolds, etc.) and the humans evil opposites are humans? But very evil and twisted?

And for the magic, how about done in secret in towers or dungeons run by guilds of wizards/clerics/other casters?

*phew* that makes two megaposts in one day...

[Moff Chumley]

+1'ed. Riftslike settings are nice, but when they're not pulled off with tons of style they're very cliché. Meanwhile, adventures in a place where everything is okay, nice and clean, and not GRIMDARK just to follow the leader would be a very refreshing concept, and it would have an air of Reconstruction.

Yay, I'm not crazy. Maybe we should start a new thread to avoid hijacking this one?

[Azerian Kelimon]

Yay, I'm not crazy. Maybe we should start a new thread to avoid hijacking this one?

Please. It would be interesting to have two successors for Tears of Blood. One with an upbeat tone, and another one to be a bit darker.

[Altharis]

Two great ideas on this great thread, but I suck with upbeat settings so I'll keep my comments to the post-Cataclysm setting.

Now, y'see if I was running this, I'd make it very Call of DnD-thulu. I'd have the following facts as canon:

The Obelisks were created to defend one great nation of wizards from another. There are Obelisks on BOTH sides of the border. The Obelisks are built in rows, going further and further into the heart of both countries. (Borders change, people!) The two nations have been in a Cold War-style stalemate for years, with both nations generating magical weapon after magical weapon, until finally the motherlode was created: A magical ritual that merge a section of (I'd use the Far Realms, but you can use anything. The Abyss maybe?) a plane with a city-sized chunk of this plane. Both sides sprang into action quickly, hoping to gain the advantage of surprise. The end result was that all the energies being formed combined and amplified, causing the entire continent to become merged with the Far Realms.

So the adventurers would be explorers, slowly venturing deeper and deeper into the heart of madness, to eventually come face-to-face with one of the Elder Gods!

Anythoughts on a Warped template or a Sanity mechanic?
Altharis

[Sequinox]

huh. Okay, for Zeta Kai and Gezina, I have an idea.

The obelisks are antimagic fields that were placed to protect a small portion of people from the Cataclysm. The people of the empire had a clue that something was coming, maybe sent by Altharis' other nation. However, only a small few people survived on either side. (Duh.) Around 1 to 5 % were mutated into evil opposites. (Drow, Duergar, Kobolds, etc.) but Humans were mutated into humans.

The cities that were hit weren't physically destroyed... Mostly. Think Lud from the Dark Tower III. Without the dead bodies hanging from lightposts or a suicicdal train... Actually, we could keep him and that would be a train to a faraway land on the other side of the world, Oriental Adventures style, with its capital named Topeka. (To keep with Dark-Tower-ness.)

The areas inside the obelisks are rich and fertile, but the area outside it has dead, cracked soil that is totally unfertile. Inside the obelisks up to lv 3 spells are allowed. If there are spell levels in 4e. I should be getting my books for it tomorrow.

MEGAPOST!

[Moff Chumley]

Woah Azerian, I didn't mean too upbeat. :smallwink: Couldn't be having with that, now, could we? Anyway, I'll make the tthread if I see any interest from the people on this one. I can't make this by myself, you know...

[gareth]

Count me in for the upbeat setting.

[Zeta Kai]

To anyone who is interested, I've started a thread for a more upbeat campaign setting. You can find it here: 4E GitP World-Building: The Positive Setting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82861).

Now, shall we get back to working on the one we've already started making?

[Mewtarthio]

The obelisks are antimagic fields that were placed to protect a small portion of people from the Cataclysm. The people of the empire had a clue that something was coming, maybe sent by Altharis' other nation. However, only a small few people survived on either side. (Duh.) Around 1 to 5 % were mutated into evil opposites. (Drow, Duergar, Kobolds, etc.) but Humans were mutated into humans.

To be honest, I kind of prefer the idea that the obelisks were intended for defense, but nobody saw the Cataclysm coming. If people knew about it far enough in advance to prepare, then the leaders would be in the safe zones, with all sorts of contingency plans, and the setting becomes less about trying to strike out and survive and more about executing preplanned strategies.

I'd also like to have more Obelisks scattered about the map. Obelisks could be used to guard vaults, for instance, as well as a select few summer homes where the wealthy could relax without fear of assassing 'porting in or spies scrying on them (note that these would not be self-sufficient). You'd also have the maximum-security prisons, the asylums, and other places that would have Obelisks just to keep dangerous elements in control.

[Sequinox]

Huh. Good point with that one, Mewtarthio...

That gives me something to think about...

Maybe the country that used the cataclysm as a weapon wasn't expecting it to backfire, and it affected them and killed virtually all of them, while the country that was targeted was taken by surprise and random people who just happened to be inside the Obelisk's area of effect survived?

And the thing about private estates and prisons being in obelisk range would make sense. That gives us plot hooks: Jail breaks are going on and hardened criminals are being let into society, for good (Riddick, later on in pitch black) or bad (more real view on things). Maybe that could even be a campaign start in itself: The players are prisoners that need to break out... Though what would rush them would have to be decided later... A failing obelisk maybe?

And this is one of the awesomest world building threads ever. Just to let you guys know.

I like your idea, but I also like mine... Compromise!

[Zeta Kai]

Okay, so to revive interest in this thread (which I deem to have a good amount of merit) let's review the established “facts” so far mentioned (I will try to include as many consistent ideas as possible, & add a few more of my own):

About 100 years ago, a vast empire dominated a large continent.
This empire was an advanced magocracy, with an absurd amount of powerful magic.
They had extremely widespread use of magic items, & even artifacts would only be somewhat uncommon.
This empire had rival nations on all borders; these enemy states where also high-magic lands.
The empire defended its borders with large obelisks, which projected permanent antimagic fields (1d10×500’ in diameter).
The empire used these obelisks in many other areas, as well, such as near prisons, tombs, vaults, & other remote areas where protection from magic may have been desirable.
The other nation may have used these obelisks as well.
About 50 years ago, the Cataclysm occurred, killing over 95% of all sentient life (Intelligence 3+) on the continent.
Those people that were not killed by the Cataclysm (1%-5%) were twisted, becoming evil or insane (template required); these fiends still plague the land to this day.
The Cataclysm was a deadly wave of hurricane-like storms, composed of pure magical energy.
These spell-storms left inanimate objects mostly untouched, although 50 years of decay have taken their toll.
The cause of the Cataclysm is still unknown to this day, but various theories abound, mostly involving hostilities between the magical nation-states or some sort of epic magical accident.
Anyone within the antimagic field of an obelisk was protected from the Cataclysm, which struck without warning.
Some of the obelisks were damaged by the Cataclysm, while others appear to have been unharmed.
Each area protected by the obelisks held a number of creatures from each PC race, although most safe zones are dominated by one particular race.
Now, 50 years later, some of the survivors wish to leave the sanctuary of the obelisks & travel the wilds of the former empire.
Magic is still widely feared & distrusted by the survivors, as is most religion (as it is commonly thought that the gods let the Cataclysm destroy the empire), leaving most safe zones bleak, gritty places filled with descendents of the “Lucky Ones.”
Dangers in the wild include monsters, twisted creatures, mage-storms (weak remnants of the Cataclysm, which can still be deadly), & survivors from other safe zones.
Possible incentives to travel through the wilds include riches left behind by those killed in the Cataclysm, libraries where the cause of the Cataclysm can be found, other safe zones with allies, aid or information, & of course many magical items & artifacts.
Some magical colleges have been recently founded outside the protection of the obelisks, but they are viewed warily by most survivors as foolish & dangerous, & must be defended constantly from fiends & monsters.
The general themes should be grim & dark: the struggle to survive, the no-win choices, & the ever-present threat of the unknown.
Exploration, cartography, retrieval, diplomacy, & discovery would make common mission motivations.
Other, distant lands, untouched by the Cataclysm, may exist, but they are remote at best.

That’s all we’ve got so far. Anybody wish to add something? Any issues with the “established facts”? Any consequences of the events in the setting so far that have not been addressed? PEACH away.

[horngeek]

To add something-

What is the effect of the Cataclysm on magic itself?
Think about it. You guys are going to have to decide what the nature of magic is to figure out what effect somthing like that would have on magic.

If it's something like the Weave from FR, no prob.
If instead, it's an energy source, you have a problem, because it's conceivable that the Cataclysm affected it in some way. Maybe that's what causes the after-effect storms? (come to think of it, that could be true even if it is like the Weave)

[Mewtarthio]

We don't want to make the Arcane power source any less attractive given that the setting already gives mages a downside (no magic in the most heavily populated areas). If the Cataclysm affected magic at all, then it would be to change it from something else to 4e's system.

[Zeta Kai]

I like the idea of the Cataclysm affecting magic in the continent, horngeek, but Mewtarthio is correct; we should not further penalize spellcasters (who are probably still smarting from the 4E nerfing as is). I propose that we include magic-boosting zones. They would function like an invisible "mist" (visible only with ethereal or magical vision) that would boost the power of magical spells, depending on the concentration of this "mist".

[LurkerInPlayground]

You know what I like about this setting?

There's this irony with the obelisks.

People either fear or don't particularly understand what magic is. But the obelisks themselves presumably operate on magic. So any future hopes or growth is necessarily limited by their understanding and study of magic. After all, they presumably function as environmental-regulators.

There's plenty of meat there for a story.

The obelisks themselves are major artifacts. Their construction didn't happen to be exactly be drama free. Maybe their construction is morally suspect. Creating new ones is a task that interests many people. Of course, to anybody still alive in the new age, the mechanism of operation of the obelisks is an apparent paradox.

In addition, don't forget that the obelisks themselves might very in strength. So caster might still be able to use some of their powers within the field of weaker obelisks.

I can picture a BBEG going around and shattering obelisks. What are his motivations for doing this? What does he know about pre-cataclysm history?

It's a nice mystery.

EDIT:
I'm also partial a culture where the worldly impact of gods are not well-understood.

Are gods merely quaint myths of a person painted over universal principles? Impersonal and cold?
Or are they merely sufficiently advanced beings that have taught select groups of mortals their secrets?
Are they omnipotent or omniscient?
Is atheism a valid philosophical position in this world? Does it even really matter when magic is relatively common?

Having this uncertainty, this debate, might make for an interesting facet of the campaign.

[InaVegt]

I've been thinking about the obelisks a lot, because one thing just kept bothering me.

That is that, as it looks now, some people will be entirely useless within the range of the obelisks.

And, I think that I have found the solution.

You see, the obelisks aren't, and have never been, true antimagic fields. In order to be able to properly defend the empire, the most powerful people of the empire should've been able to use their powers everywhere in the empire. As it was a magocracy, the most powerful people were wizards. As such, the majority of the combat powers of wizards should function within the range of the obelisks.

My proposal is: The obelisks don't stop any power, no matter the power source, from happening. Instead, no ritual can have any effect inside the range of the obelisks.

The thing that destroyed most of the world, would've at the very least been similar enough to a ritual, that the obelisks stopped their effects.

---

What do you think?

[Sequinox]

I like it, Gezina. That would balance the game more too. The only problem would be that, if it only blocked rituals, the nobles in their estates would have no reason to live there, the prisons were pointless, because wizards could bust out pretty easily, and things like teleportation circles wouldn't work there. Here's my idea:

Different Obelisks control different things: Some obelisks have powers that block all past lv 3 powers, some lv 19, some none, but protected against rituals, so it varies. I'll try to draw up a map later to show what I mean (I have an addiction to drawing maps) and post it, bu for now I was wondering what you thought of that.

[tsuuga]

What do you think?
I like it. Mechanically, you could explain it as giving off an antimagic pulse every (conveniently) six seconds, making it child's play to use a power between pulses, but impossible to build up power on the timescale of a ritual (or build the sympathetic magical connection necessary to teleport), and close enough together to dissolve roiling clouds of magic before they made it very far into the radius. For prisons and such, you could simply put multiple obelisks on offset cycles - reducing casting times to a max of 3 seconds (disallowing full-round spells) or minor actions only.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I like it, Gezina. That would balance the game more too. The only problem would be that, if it only blocked rituals, the nobles in their estates would have no reason to live there, the prisons were pointless, because wizards could bust out pretty easily, and things like teleportation circles wouldn't work there. Here's my idea:

Different Obelisks control different things: Some obelisks have powers that block all past lv 3 powers, some lv 19, some none, but protected against rituals, so it varies. I'll try to draw up a map later to show what I mean (I have an addiction to drawing maps) and post it, bu for now I was wondering what you thought of that.
Well, wizards aren't exactly OMGWORLDZAPPING powerful anymore. Binding their hands and gagging them is usually going to keep them from doing very much.

Or if that's not humanitarian enough for the kind of prison you want, blindfolding them or simply putting them in specially-made cells where you can approach them without worrying about line-of-sight, ought to be enough.

Nobles are rich. They can make special arrangements that most people cannot. They might have well-guarded summer homes or a special facility for rituals. And as pointed out, since the obelisks were the artifacts of a magocracy, then it'd be a simple enough affair to have a "blindspot" built-in to the area-of-effect. (Kept mostly secret of course.)

[Paragon Badger]

Hmmm...Reading your basic setting and themes has struck remarkably close to a setting I've been working on (since I got the 4E books, at least :smallwink:) called Deicide. The concept is basically the Gods are all missing, and none have been naturally chosen to replace them. Leading to a world that's very much like the Black Death stretched out over 500 years. Everyone lives in huddled villages for protection. (Legend of Legaia meets Soul Reaver 1 :smalleek:) Fey, Eladrin and most elves have all gone insane because the Nature God is no longer functioning, leading to ecosystems failing as animals no longer intuitively cooperate. People die (or children are born still) for no reason because the Life God is no longer functioning. Dead spirits don't get to their destinations, and sometimes can't be raised because the Death God is no longer functioning (and ghosts are everywhere) And to make things worse, demons and devils have poured into the material realm to take over.

I was going for a mid-apocalypse theme rather than a post-apocalypse. The PCs are directly responsible for saving the world as well, because in 100 years (if nothing changes) all the good races will die out.

Just to let you know that I had this in mind incase you see a thread pop up in a few days and claim I stole your idea. >_> Also, I'm willing to share ideas- might even glue my baby together with yours. :smalltongue:

It's taking alot of time to provide alternatives to the now NPC-only divine casters, though. No gods = no power. (They're NPC because they suck, not because they're rare. Mega penalties.)

[Zeta Kai]

I propose that for structure purposes, we allow members to claim certain aspects of the campaign for themselves. Everybody lay claim to a race, group, or other setting aspect, such as:

The Old Empire
Other magocracies
Obelisks
The Cataclysm
"Clysmist" (random magic-boosting zones)
Ruins & Relics (what's left behind)
Fiend template
Dragonborn survivors
Dwarven survivors
Eladrin survivors
Elven survivors
Halfling survivors
Human survivors
Tiefling survivors
Warforged survivors (if any)
Far-off untouched lands

Multiple people can work together on one aspect, as long as they agree to work together. Who ever is left over, or doesn't want to work on specifics, can work on the Integration Team. The Integrators can take the elements created by the Aspect Teams & wedge them into the world, connecting them & embellishing as necessary. The Integrators should have oversight of the material coming out of the Aspect Teams, but only insomuch as is necessary to maintain a coherent world (for instance, if an aspect team started saying that the Teiflings have found a way to work rituals within the obelisks, they would have to be overridden by the Integrators, lest they trample over the Obelisk team). Any volunteers?

[Tormsskull]

Hmm, an idea for the chopping block:

Is there supposed to be any kind of intercommunication between these pockets of survivors? What if there was a race that was able to travel relatively freely between the pockets?

I suggest, the tieflings take that roll. They would be famous for traveling between the pockets, sharing information and selling odds and ends. They would be mysterious, and people would wonder why they are able to travel between the pockets. Some people would hate them, as their prices would be heavily factored by supply/demand, and many would think they were taking advantage of them.

As for the explanation of why the tieflings are able to do this, it could either be that a tieflings hellish heritage sort of hides them from the creatures, or discourages them from taking or something like that. Or, if that explanation is no good, it could be that they inherited the knowledge of secret tunnels and pathways that allow them to avoid the dangers.

Thoughts?

[InaVegt]

Hmm, an idea for the chopping block:

Is there supposed to be any kind of intercommunication between these pockets of survivors? What if there was a race that was able to travel relatively freely between the pockets?

I suggest, the tieflings take that roll. They would be famous for traveling between the pockets, sharing information and selling odds and ends. They would be mysterious, and people would wonder why they are able to travel between the pockets. Some people would hate them, as their prices would be heavily factored by supply/demand, and many would think they were taking advantage of them.

As for the explanation of why the tieflings are able to do this, it could either be that a tieflings hellish heritage sort of hides them from the creatures, or discourages them from taking or something like that. Or, if that explanation is no good, it could be that they inherited the knowledge of secret tunnels and pathways that allow them to avoid the dangers.

Thoughts?

Or how about that Tieflings are actually some kind of fiend, but a kind that didn't turn on the pocketed races. As such, Tieflings aren't trusted by the pocketed races ("Never trust a Tiefling, my son, they are a dangerous sort."), but they are the prime target of the other fiends. ("Kill Tieflings on sight, young warriors, they associate with the unwarped, as such, they are traitors.") For this reason, Tieflings are constantly on the move, traveling from pocket to pocket, staying in a pocket as long as the pocket's inhabitants will tolerate them.

They don't want to stray out of the pockets, they have to. If they stay in a single pocket too long, they'll be forced to go, in merciful villages.

[Gargor]

Sweet this world seems off to a good start.
just thought i would throw in my 2 cents. For one, i agree that the Obelisks shouldn't just null any magic, it would hurt the game and not really make any sense (who heard of a world ruled by mages who couldn't cast spells?) Also i think it might be interesting if the Obelisk's power sort of faded out the farther you go from them instead of there just being in the Obelisks power range and oout of it. also, maybe the obelisks don't just keep magic out, but also in. what if there are areas where there is massive amounts of magic from the cataclism stuck inside an Obelisk's range. It could create some cool high level dongeuns.
Finally i don't think the corrupted area's should be destroyed, just twisted, filled with fiends, mutants and undead. think less wastelands, and more ddark, haunted forests.
Some ideas for races:
elf/ eldarin: Elfs were one race that lived in the forest. eldarin split off to teach humans magic and eventually got ingrained in their society. Since this knowledge lead to the cataclism, elves have a hatetred of their former kin.
Dwarves: An ancient race dimly remembered in human legends. long ago they left the upper worlds to live in their cities and halls undergrounds. however the cataclism has destroyed much of their world and now there is a mass exodus of dwarves coming to the upper world.
Also i like the idea of tiefling traders who are immune to the cataclism, but trusted by none.
just my random ideas.

[horngeek]

Dwarves: An ancient race dimly remembered in human legends. long ago they left the upper worlds to live in their cities and halls undergrounds. however the cataclism has destroyed much of their world and now there is a mass exodus of dwarves coming to the upper world

This reminds me of the Warhammer Dwarfs, maybe you could stel the grudges? (They are resentful of humans for causing the cataclysm)

[Szilard]

Have I commented on this yet? Because I think this is awesome what you guys are doing here, but I don't really thing I can help untill I get the DMG and the MM.

[Zeta Kai]

Have I commented on this yet? Because I think this is awesome what you guys are doing here, but I don't really thing I can help untill I get the DMG and the MM.

I don't have any 4E books, nor do I plan to in the near future. I'm just working on fluff & organization. I like world-building, & I think community-based projects are fun & beneficial for the community at large (although reach consensus on anything is a hassle).

Any thoughts you may have are appreciated, even if they are uninformed. :smallwink:

[Szilard]

I think the Kobolds should be orange!:smalltongue:

But seriously, I'd have to reveiw most of the information again to think of any tips.

[Szilard]

I propose that for structure purposes, we allow members to claim certain aspects of the campaign for themselves. Everybody lay claim to a race, group, or other setting aspect, such as:

The Old Empire
Other magocracies
Obelisks
The Cataclysm
"Clysmist" (random magic-boosting zones)
Ruins & Relics (what's left behind)
Fiend template
Dragonborn survivors
Dwarven survivors
Eladrin survivors
Elven survivors
Halfling survivors
Human survivors
Tiefling survivors
Warforged survivors (if any)
Far-off untouched lands

Multiple people can work together on one aspect, as long as they agree to work together. Who ever is left over, or doesn't want to work on specifics, can work on the Integration Team. The Integrators can take the elements created by the Aspect Teams & wedge them into the world, connecting them & embellishing as necessary. The Integrators should have oversight of the material coming out of the Aspect Teams, but only insomuch as is necessary to maintain a coherent world (for instance, if an aspect team started saying that the Teiflings have found a way to work rituals within the obelisks, they would have to be overridden by the Integrators, lest they trample over the Obelisk team). Any volunteers?

I think I'll work on the Halfling survivers when I have time.
In the meantime, do we know what the dominant race of the old empire was?

[Sequinox]

I'm giving far off lands a try.

For one, we need to decide WHY the far off and untouched lands are far off and untouched. Is it because of massive mountains? Oceans? Desert? (I'll use ocean for now.)

Then, how hard is it to cross the ocean? Is it dangerous or does it take just a long time?

When the far off lands are finally in question, what happens there? Are they gnome seperatists who left the world because they weren't in 4e? I mean... Because they hated the world or something? An oriental adventures styled continent that would be more upbeat? Wastelands? I could go on for a long time.

So... Where are the far off lands...? I think that we need to start working out definite geography... Ooh, that can't be good.

[Zeta Kai]

You want geography? Here's geography:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/zetakai/4ESetting3.jpg

And here it is again, with obelisk locations:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/zetakai/4ESetting2.jpg
For the latter map, here's the key:

Human (spread evenly all over the world)
Dwarf (mostly in the Eastern Mountains & the Western Hills)
Halfling (clustered around the Central Plains & Inner Sea)
Half-Elf (concentrated in the Western Peninsula)
Elf (all over the western lands)
Eladrin (scattered around the continent, mostly in small remote enclaves)
Dragonborn (located predominately in the Northern Plains)
Tiefling (small pockets along the southern & eastern coasts)


As for the layout, I figure you've got the following facts:

The Old Empire's capital was located around the Inner Sea
It was surrounded on almost all sides by competing magocracies
The obelisks were used as a mutually-assured defense against ritual magic, & therefore found use in a number of different applications, such as watchposts, prisons, palaces, & vaults; the populations of survivors within each one is highly variable (some harbored thousands, some protected only a few dozen)
The Eastern Islands were virtually untouched by the Cataclysm (& the resulting Clysmist), & the people there have grown prosperous & powerful since those dark times

Well, that's my contribution (PEACH). What's yours?

[Siosilvar]

If I can, I'll work with someone on the south peninsula (the one with all the tieflings on it).
Does that qualify as "far-off" lands?

Hmm... I'm kind of liking the idea of it being a jungle, sectioned off from the mainland by a series of wide rivers.

[Sequinox]

Zeta Kai, that's incredible. What program was that, anyway? (The maps)

As for far off lands, I noticed 1 thing in particular: That tiny spot of land in the north that goes off the map. That could be the northern far off lands. Now we need to make it difficult to reach... But as for what is there, I think someone said isolationist gnome sorcerers... That might have been another thread, though. Anyway, that sounds interesting.

Here goes:

Far to the north, in snowy, freezing mountains and fertile valleys in between, gnomes live. They practice arcane magic. Any outsiders are met coldly, if not with hostility. They are borderline xenophobic. There are two major types of gnomes: the ones that live in the mountains and caves (tinkerers: 3.5 flavored) and those that live in the valleys (fey: 4.0 flavored). They are on perfect terms with each other.

Also, the positive thread has a name. That means we need one soon to not become obsolete... I don't have any ideas, though.

[Ceiling009]

Sorry for not actually adding to the thread, but... yes Zeta Kai, what program did the person or you use to make that map? Also, no Warforged?

[Sequinox]

Okay, now, so that I (and others, no doubt) won't have to go back completely through the list of posts: A summarization of everything decided on so far.


The known world was once a great empire, at war with many other great empires.
They were all magocracies and all had innumerable magic items and weapons spread throughout.
One empire used an attack the other and the result almost completely wiped out both. The magic energies involved (for it was a magical attack) got to both empire's vast hoards of magic items and weapons, setting them off like time bombs and killing or mutating all of the people within the area of effect.
The only surviving people were those inside the effect of the obelisks, magical pillars that stop rituals from occurring inside.
There are obelisks scattered across the world.
(Human's Obelisks)
(Elven obelisks)
(Eladrin Obelisks)
(Dwarven obelisks)
(Halfling Obelisks)
(Are we keeping this idea?) Tieflings were once humans, but were mutated by the cataclysm. However, they are more good than the rest of the fiends such as drow and duergar, to name two, and helped the survivors. However, due to their fiendish nature, survivors don't trust them, and due to their mercy on the survivors, all of the other fiends hate them. They are forced to always be on the move.
Rumor has it that far to the north past treacherous oceans a continent exists filled with bizarre, violent, xenophobic short creatures. (Up for debate)


Let me know if I forgot anything.

Oh, and sorry about the double post.

[Zeta Kai]

Well, I used plain ol' Photoshop CS3. I have a secret recipe for large-scale landscape creation that I use for planet-making, & its handy for making pretty maps quickly. Thank you for your appreciation of my work.

As for Warforged, they would make a great addition to this setting. When this was first started, Warforged weren't published by WotC yet, so we weren't sure if they were in, so to speak. Now that they are, we should try & squeeze them in somewhere. Any thoughts?

[Siosilvar]

The warforged are (formerly) autonomous constructs animated by the cataclysm?

[Sequinox]

Yeah sure. That works. Sorry for not helping much in this post, but I have to go.

[Sequinox]

AAAaaaaaaaand we're back, folks!

Catacymised
Cataclymised

The Cataclymised are those who survived the Cataclysm... When they were inside the blast radius. They are horrid, evil creatures, and those who weren't transformed to evil opposite races instead warped to powerful, nightmarish creatures.

Cataclymised Elite Brute
Abberation XP Elite
Defenses +2 Fortitude +2 Will +2 Reflex
Resist 5 Fire 5 Cold Becomes 10 at 18th
level
Saving Throws +2
Action Point 1
Hit points +12 per level + Con score
Powers
Fear (Aura 8)
Cataclymised makes a charisma based
attack on target. If they fail, target
runs 2d4 squares away from combat.
Each turn afterward, repeat until target
passes his save.
Touch of the dead [Touch attack (Encounter)]
Dex based touch attack deals 1d10 cold
damage/every 5 levels.

Is this overpowered? I need advice.

About the map with obelisk locations, think you could make another but with like 2 or 3 obelisk locations for each race? Then I could really get into the world. Oh boy do I have ideas... Around the coastline, if possible.

The Obelisk of Final Hope

Population: 18000 (Rough estimate)
Ruling Person(s): Governed by a Town Council made up of three members. Each controls a small area within. For example, Vallance Kingston is in control of the Merchant quarter (in smaller obelisk zones not in a new city, it would be different (tiny) counties)
Districts and leaders:
Merchant Quarter
Filled with many shops, pubs, and inns. The most pleasant of all of the districts. Littering the streets are tieflings, peddlers who wander the world selling artifacts that may or may not be useful to different Obelisks. The leader of the Merchant Quarter is Vallance Kingston, a wealthy merchant prince who made is way up the political ladder through discretionable valor. He helped those who needed help, but ran when he had to do so to survive, lied about the running, and built up respect. He also is known as Vallance Goldtongue or Vallance Midas for his diplomatic and enterprising abilities.
Notable Establishments in the Merchant Quarter are the Dragon's Flagon, a pub named after a mythical creature reputed to be feared and respected by the old empire. They are famous for their hot wings.
Political District
The city hasn’t been very successful in diversifying its districts, so the Political Quarter isn’t very political. Yes, the official buildings are all here, such as the Congress House, but so are the tieflings and the small shops. However, most of the buildings are a little shady.
The leader of the Political District is a woman named Pahlin Trokna. She is ruthless, cold, and got to power by, well, being a soulless manipulator. She is a backstabber. However, never once has she associated herself with the crime lords that run the “Business District.” She has done it all by herself.
The Congress House is made out of stone, the only building in Final Hope that existed before the Cataclysm. It was once the house of a minor noble, but to see a marble building, exquisitely crafted, is a pride that burns in the heart of almost all Hopers, as the residents of Final Hope are called.
“Business Quarter” (Notice the quotes)
The Business Quarter is a run down section of town. The few people who try to scratch out a living there are extorted mercilessly by the “Gentlemen” of one of the various crime factions. The most prominent Gentleman is Vinny Budgecinno. He runs most of the crime, though there are a few exceptions.
The ‘Leader’ of the “Business Quarter” is Wallace Gelrood. He is Vinny’s puppet. Literally. Vinny has found a ritual that, when casted, forces the victim to do the bidding of the caster for ten years. However, once the ten years are up, they are immune to the effects of the spell. Which means that Wallace may not fare so well once his term is up…
The most prominent establishment is Vinny’s house. It is built from many different materials, all painted white, and crafted together possibly by magic. It was most definitely not a normal building, and looking at it you would have to say that yes, the house was built by magic.

Am I forgetting anything? Please let me know.

[Zeta Kai]

Cool. I'm glad somebody (besides me) remembered this. Since the apparent demise of the Gears of Neve (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82861) project (:smallfrown:), I've been to busy to drag one of these projects back from the brink. Kudos to you for working on this again.

As for the map, are you saying that you want significantly fewer obelisk locations? I'm fine with that (what I illustrated a suggestion, not a stone-setting maneuver); I just need to know your intent. I can redo the map with fewer obelisks, but it'll take a few days. Lemme know if there are other suggestions.

[Sequinox]

Gears died? No! I had been planning on chipping in...

But I guess what I meant by fewer obelisks was that obelisks, as least as far as I understood, weren't everywhere. My vision for them was to be semi-rare, meaning far enough apart to not be a walk in the park to travel too, but close enough to hear word about them every now and then, as opposed to everywhere... If this makes any sense, I guess. Nobody's understood me today.

Me: "blahblahblahblah"
Anybody: "Timmy's trapped in a well?" :smallconfused:

Also, we could always say that those are the ones worth mentioning (there might be some that are too small to be worth mapping; ie. a nobles estate or a prison.

[Zeta Kai]

Yes, Gears of Neve seems to be dead for the moment. However, all it takes to revive such things is a benevolent poster dedicated to contributing. I suggest that if you want to add to it & potentially resurrect it, follow the link above, read that thread & its 2 sibling threads.

As for the map, I will edit it over the weekend & have a new one up by Tuesday.

[ArlEammon]

What about 0 level magic being considered' common"? That way there is precedence for superstition.

Also, I like the Cold War option. The Asian empire(who's name I forget) and the Feldarin Empire sound like they could fight eachother.

[Sequinox]

Okay. Time for another megapost.

The Old Empire (out of Game info; not so much is known to players)
The old empire was a vast nation spread across most of the continent. They had troubles with the other nations, but for the most part they were on top. They had the most powerful mages in the world, and even their clerics were followers of magic itself. They were good and bad, ugly and beautiful, unstable and sane. The members of the nation were, as almost all widespread nations are, very different. There are the jungles of the southwest, where wildmen and natives lived, the stylized Center, where the nobles threw words at each other and fought pettily over small rules, the North, where fishermen journeyed out to get a good haul and spoke an odd dialect, (Ayuh, Jimmy's a goo-wad fish-ah), and spoke of a legendary sea monster, the leviathan. In the Far South, on the islands (Based off of the Caribbean), the island folk lived, pirates plundered, and reggae music was popular.

The other Magocracy
The other magocracy was named Acadia. They too worshiped magic. They lived on the islands in the East, though recently they had begun to conquer into the Empire's territory. Up until then, it had been cold war, nobody wanting to strike for fear of setting off the nukes (or magic assaults). More about this on Cataclysm.
The magocracy's society is simple. There isn't a lot of politics, and even at the highest level, mostly everybody agrees with something or everybody doesn't. This is in part due to the fact that there was only one political party, and thusly not a whole bunch of political party wars.
Their land is the islands in the east, close to the edge of the map, meaning all the Eastern Islands except for the ones close to the Empire.

The Cataclysm
The cold war had been going on for seven years when Acadia first started the real, physical war. They invaded the islands in the East closest to the Empire, which is technically Empire territory. This caused the Empire to start rallying their army. Acadia advanced into the Empire, conquering a small part of the mid east coast, then pushed through, carving a swath through the heartland. Finally they reached the walls of the Empire's capital, Lud (name up for debate), and layed siege. The Empire planned to counterattack magically, which had been avoided until this point, but the Acadians had already put together a massive attack spell. They learned of the assembly of a spell targeted on them, and cast.

They targeted the capital of Lud. Everybody inside was dead in seconds. That was all that it was supposed to do, but - oops - the spell hit some epic magic items, greatly increasing the radius, and the increased radius hit more magic items, and so on until it had stretched across the whole world, destroying even the caster. Something had happened to the spell, though, when it hit an artifact that could cause disease/mutation/whatever, and spread that across, creating the evil opposites that are alive present day.

The only survivors were by the obelisks. That was 40 years ago.

Obelisks
The Obelisks are massive magic pillars that extend into the sky almost as far as the eye can see. They create an anti-ritual field that prevented the spell (actually a ritual) that wiped out the world from killing the people inside the obelisks. They were built hundreds of years ago, and nobody really knows who built them or how. That makes it difficult to fix the ones that are failing...

I had planned to write more about the obelisks, but oh well. That was an hour right there. Now I am thinking. Discuss.
*leans back to not pay attention to audience as he thinks*