Extremly dissapointed in Google, need contact information for them

[sikyon]

http://www.google.com/logos/velasquez.gif

I am extremely disappointed with Google that they chose not to honour the brave soilders who fought and died in D-Day for the freedom we enjoy today. Does anyone know where I might be able to send this complaint to google? I tried looking for an email address but I couldn't find one. If I still can't later today then I'll send them a letter.

What are your opinions on this?

[Gygaxphobia]

Totally agree.
I hope they at least considered it and discarded the idea for some reason.

It's also unfortunate that many people's opinion of what is important is formed by Google's front page.

[The Rose Dragon]

Wait, what is D-Day?

Also, you spelled "disappointed" wrong.

[RTGoodman]

I was a little disappointed, but I think in the past they've done stuff for D-Day. Just remember - it's not the only thing that happened on June 6th. I'm pretty sure they've also honored our troops on other days, too.

If you want to contact them, you might want to click the "About Google" link, and then look at the "Contact Us" area. That seems to be what you're looking for.

EDIT: Rose, not sure if you're joking or not, but information on the term D-Day is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Day); now, though, it mostly refers to a specific D-Day - June 6, 1944, when the Allies in WWII began Operation Overlord and landed at Normandy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Normandy).

[rubakhin]

The less honor they give to holidays of a military nature, the better. I never understood all the fanfare and parades, the smiling faces.

[sikyon]

The less honor they give to holidays of a military nature, the better. I never understood all the fanfare and parades, the smiling faces.

It's about honouring the troops. The fact is, the world is dark and gritty and for us to have our sunny, happy lives there have to be people who will sacrifice their own sunny, happy lives to let us enjoy our own. I think we should honour their sacrifices and celebrate their efforts. Sometimes people forget all the benefits we reap from the sacrifices of our soilders.


I was a little disappointed, but I think in the past they've done stuff for D-Day. Just remember - it's not the only thing that happened on June 6th. I'm pretty sure they've also honored our troops on other days, too.

If you want to contact them, you might want to click the "About Google" link, and then look at the "Contact Us" area. That seems to be what you're looking for.

If they've done it before, then I'm OK with it. Have they? Contact Us doesn't lead to anything relevant for this. It's all buisness contacts.

[Griever]

Well, sikyon basically posted what I was about to, so read above for my thoughts on why we should honor military holidays.


As to contacting google, the best I can find is here. (http://www.google.com/support/contact/bin/request.py?press=1) Might not get too far, but it is something.

[RTGoodman]

If they've done it before, then I'm OK with it. Have they? Contact Us doesn't lead to anything relevant for this. It's all buisness contacts.

Well, I know they do stuff for every Veteran's Day, Memorial Day, and stuff like that, and I'm pretty sure I remember the graphic from last June 6th being about the Normandy invasion. Or, at least, I remember them having some sort of graphic that related to WWII - it might have been on some other day, though.

Also, I looked around - there doesn't seem to be a non-business related e-mail, but their address is at the bottom of the page here (http://www.google.com/intl/en/contact/index.html).

[Om]

Forgive me sikyon but I can't find your posts complaining that Google had failed to celebrate the anniversaries of the Battle of Kursk or Stalingrad. Could you please direct me to them?

[sikyon]

Well, sikyon basically posted what I was about to, so read above for my thoughts on why we should honor military holidays.


As to contacting google, the best I can find is here. (http://www.google.com/support/contact/bin/request.py?press=1) Might not get too far, but it is something.

Thanks Greiver, how did you find that? I've spent 40 minutes looking for something like that!

[Skippy]

The problem here is, this discussion can be easily turned into a politics matter. I understand Rubakhin's point of view, sharing it myself. Maybe it's because D-Day is mostly an American commemoration. I know what happened then, and I am aware that perhaps the world as we know it today wouldn't be the same if those men hadn't given their lives to protect some ideals. However, in most of the countries (or so I'd like to think) we don't commemorate those who lost their life, in that way.

Diego Velazquez, a great painter, was born on a June 6th, too. The way I see it, in Google they preferred to commemorate something more... universal, and valuable in a way, than remember the people who died in a conflict that is a dark page in history of Mankind.

Said this, I just want to apologize if in any way this post offends someone. It's not my intention. I suppose this day must be really important to some, I respect and understand it.

[sikyon]

The problem here is, this discussion can be easily turned into a politics matter. I understand Rubakhin's point of view, sharing it myself. Maybe it's because D-Day is mostly an American commemoration. I know what happened then, and I am aware that perhaps the world as we know it today wouldn't be the same if those men hadn't given their lives to protect some ideals. However, in most of the countries (or so I'd like to think) we don't commemorate those who lost their life, in that way.

Diego Velazquez, a great painter, was born on a June 6th, too. The way I see it, in Google they preferred to commemorate something more... universal, and valuable in a way, than remember the people who died in a conflict that is a dark page in history of Mankind.

Said this, I just want to apologize if in any way this post offends someone. It's not my intention. I suppose this day must be really important to some, I respect and understand it.

I don't think it's mostly american, I'm fairly sure it's celebrated in britain and france and Canada (I live in cananda). Yes, I agree art might be more universal but really can anyone say that they wanted the axis powers to win? I can't think of a single country today that would have the opinion that they wanted the Nazi's to rule the world.

[Griever]

Thanks Greiver, how did you find that? I've spent 40 minutes looking for something like that!


Gr -ie- ver, first off :smalltongue:

And the link was on the right side of this page. (http://www.google.com/press/index.html)

And it all depends on your point of view, radikal, I come from a family that had 4 men fighting all in D-Day, so I was raised celebrating it.

[SurlySeraph]

D-Day is not an official government holiday. It would be no less reasonable to demand that Google commemorate Sneak Some Zucchini onto Your Neighbors' Porch Day (http://www.wellcat.com/august/sneak_some_zucchini_onto_your_ne.htm).

[sikyon]

D-Day is not an official government holiday. It would be no less reasonable to demand that Google commemorate Sneak Some Zucchini onto Your Neighbors' Porch Day (http://www.wellcat.com/august/sneak_some_zucchini_onto_your_ne.htm).

Really, it would be no less reasonable?

[Skippy]

I don't think it's mostly american, I'm fairly sure it's celebrated in britain and france and Canada (I live in cananda). Yes, I agree art might be more universal but really can anyone say that they wanted the axis powers to win? I can't think of a single country today that would have the opinion that they wanted the Nazi's to rule the world.

No, I didn't say that. As I said, I am completely aware of the historic importance of D-Day. I respect that. However, the whole WWII is something I am ashamed of, as a member of the human race. I agree that the Nazi regime was a mistake, and I am glad the Axis lost the war. I wish, however, that none of that would have happened. That so many lives were lost. That the Atomic Bomb had to be used. That the world had to be torn apart the way it was torn.

The way I see it, I prefer to embrace all the goodness Mankind has created. All forms of art, anything that gives us hope in ourselves, rather than anything that reminds us of a day when men had to rise and kill each other because of a megalomaniac's crazy ideas.

Edit: Griever, I am sorry to hear about that. Luckily, I don't think I had any family member fight in WWII, and I can't understand what's it like, to have someone in a situation like that.

But wouldn't you agree, it would have been better if none of that had happened?

[WalkingTarget]

I don't know if the lists they provide are complete, but I didn't see any other June 6 banners here (http://www.google.com/intl/en/holidaylogos.html).

I think the general idea is that they don't seem to bring up much military stuff at all besides Veteran's/Armistice day, and that wasn't until last year.

[sikyon]

No, I didn't say that. As I said, I am completely aware of the historic importance of D-Day. I respect that. However, the whole WWII is something I am ashamed of, as a member of the human race. I agree that the Nazi regime was a mistake, and I am glad the Axis lost the war. I wish, however, that none of that would have happened. That so many lives were lost. That the Atomic Bomb had to be used. That the world had to be torn apart the way it was torn.

The way I see it, I prefer to embrace all the goodness Mankind has created. All forms of art, anything that gives us hope in ourselves, rather than anything that reminds us of a day when men had to rise and kill each other because of a megalomaniac's crazy ideas.

Edit: Griever, I am sorry to hear about that. Luckily, I don't think I had any family member fight in WWII, and I can't understand what's it like, to have someone in a situation like that.

But wouldn't you agree, it would have been better if none of that had happened?

Yes, but that's unrealistic, and trying to handwave it away is just lying, right? I mean look at Japenese textbook revisionism. The world is wrong, but shouldn't we remember the people who made it right? We're celebrating the victory of freedom over oppression here, not the fight itself.

[rubakhin]

It's about honouring the troops. The fact is, the world is dark and gritty and for us to have our sunny, happy lives there have to be people who will sacrifice their own sunny, happy lives to let us enjoy our own. I think we should honour their sacrifices and celebrate their efforts. Sometimes people forget all the benefits we reap from the sacrifices of our soilders.


Look at the Chechen flag in my sig and tell me what a sunny, happy life war won for me, my brother. Tell me how I've forgotten about sacrifice.

I don't know. I don't like it, I don't like the happiness and mirth of these celebrations. But I myself don't have any better solution to suggest. I grieve for everyone's sacrifices, but that's what I do, I grieve. I don't feel right celebrating it. At the same time, there's a pain in my heart for the soldiers ... I don't know what to do for them. I just don't know. But somehow, I find the glorification and romanticism of these holidays to be in poor taste, to be a mockery, almost. Maybe it's a more correct and healthy attitude. I don't know.

[Skippy]

Yes, but that's unrealistic, and trying to handwave it away is just lying, right? I mean look at Japenese textbook revisionism. The world is wrong, but shouldn't we remember the people who made it right? We're celebrating the victory of freedom over oppression here, not the fight itself.

I kinda disagree with that. If that was the celebration, then it would be commemorated on the day the fight ended, and not the day the fight started.

And yes, I am aware the end of the war is celebrated, too. And yes, too, I know the war didn't start on D-Day. However, I don't like the idea of celebrating this kind of events. I agree with Google mentioning other important events, that talk about the hope in Mankind, rather than bloody pages of our history.

[sikyon]

I kinda disagree with that. If that was the celebration, then it would be commemorated on the day the fight ended, and not the day the fight started.

And yes, I am aware the end of the war is celebrated, too. And yes, too, I know the war didn't start on D-Day. However, I don't like the idea of celebrating this kind of events. I agree with Google mentioning other important events, that talk about the hope in Mankind, rather than bloody pages of our history.

But isn't this hope in it's purest form? How can you have hope without oppression? How you know love without hate, courage without fear?


Look at the Chechen flag in my sig and tell me what a sunny, happy life war won for me, my brother. Tell me how I've forgotten about sacrifice.

I don't know. I don't like it, I don't like the happiness and mirth of these celebrations. But I myself don't have any better solution to suggest. I grieve for everyone's sacrifices, but that's what I do, I grieve. I don't feel right celebrating it. At the same time, there's a pain in my heart for the soldiers ... I don't know what to do for them. I just don't know. But somehow, I find the glorification and romanticism of these holidays to be in poor taste, to be a mockery, almost. Maybe it's a more correct and healthy attitude. I don't know.

I don't think that it's really a celebration, I think it's moe of a rememberance. The end of the war should probably be a celebration though, as the fighting has ended.

[Skippy]

But isn't this hope in it's purest form? How can you have hope without oppression? How you know love without hate, courage without fear?


I can have hope when I know that Mankind can be better. When I know that everything we can do today, we can do it better tomorrow. When I know that people care about each other and know that people works together to accomplish goals that will make next generations live better. When I listen to Beethoven's Ninth or see the Mona Lisa, when I see that people care about science and understanding why are we here, instead of slaughtering each other. I agree that you can't have courage without fear, I just don't understand why we must have fear of each other.

Edit: I think I missed my point. The Universe is too big, we are too small. We have opression. We have limitations. Humans are fragile. Life is beautiful and we've spent thousands of years trying to understand why are we here and what's our purpose. We've learned that we are a privileged species, and that the chances of us being here at all was so minimal that it's ridiculous. If we are so weak, so unprotected against this huge universe, what's the point in celebrating the times when we had to fight each other, instead of celebrating the times when we showed ourselves our aptitudes and will to make ourselves a better species?

[Raiser Blade]

Look at the Chechen flag in my sig and tell me what a sunny, happy life war won for me, my brother. Tell me how I've forgotten about sacrifice.

I don't know. I don't like it, I don't like the happiness and mirth of these celebrations. But I myself don't have any better solution to suggest. I grieve for everyone's sacrifices, but that's what I do, I grieve. I don't feel right celebrating it. At the same time, there's a pain in my heart for the soldiers ... I don't know what to do for them. I just don't know. But somehow, I find the glorification and romanticism of these holidays to be in poor taste, to be a mockery, almost. Maybe it's a more correct and healthy attitude. I don't know.

I don't see it as being in poor taste at all. I can't even understand how a day meant to honor and remember soldiers can be concieved as a mockery.

[sikyon]

I can have hope when I know that Mankind can be better. When I know that everything we can do today, we can do it better tomorrow. When I know that people care about each other and know that people works together to accomplish goals that will make next generations live better. When I listen to Beethoven's Ninth or see the Mona Lisa, when I see that people care about science and understanding why are we here, instead of slaughtering each other. I agree that you can't have courage without fear, I just don't understand why we must have fear of each other.

Edit: I think I missed my point. The Universe is too big, we are too small. We have opression. We have limitations. Humans are fragile. Life is beautiful and we've spent thousands of years trying to understand why are we here and what's our purpose. We've learned that we are a privileged species, and that the chances of us being here at all was so minimal that it's ridiculous. If we are so weak, so unprotected against this huge universe, what's the point in celebrating the times when we had to fight each other, instead of celebrating the times when we showed ourselves our aptitudes and will to make ourselves a better species?

We're celebrating the times when people who have tried to fight each other have failed.

The sad fact is that humans are at their best when fighting each other. War is a supreme catalyst of technology; necessity is the mother of invention and war is her most powerful aspect. As a whole we actually grow stronger as the individuals compete. Many must die so that the best may grow, it's fundamental even to evolution.

[Telonius]

My great uncle drove an ammunition truck on D-Day.

I'm fairly certain he's not rolling in his grave because of what Google did.

64 years is long enough, time to move on. There have been other wars since then, other disasters and triumphs. One date - no matter how wonderful or awful - can't be seared into everybody's minds forever.

[Mauve Shirt]

I have no opinions on celebrating/commemorating D-day, but I think it's ridiculous to care. There's no point in contacting them to complain that they're not celebrating the right thing, it's their site and they can decorate it how they want when they want. It's just not worth being upset over.

[Om]

The sad fact is that humans are at their best when fighting each other. War is a supreme catalyst of technology; necessity is the mother of invention and war is her most powerful aspect. As a whole we actually grow stronger as the individuals compete. Many must die so that the best may grow, it's fundamental even to evolution.Please include this statement in your complaint to Google

[sikyon]

I have no opinions on celebrating/commemorating D-day, but I think it's ridiculous to care. There's no point in contacting them to complain that they're not celebrating the right thing, it's their site and they can decorate it how they want when they want. It's just not worth being upset over.

Yeah, companies really shouldn't have any public responsibility. Who gives a crap if you can dump radioactive waste but through the clever use of legal loopholes make it legal, amiright?

[RTGoodman]

This was the one I was thinking of earlier, but it was for Veteran's Day, not June 6th.

http://www.google.com/intl/en/logos/veterans07.gif

[Skippy]

We're celebrating the times when people who have tried to fight each other have failed.

The sad fact is that humans are at their best when fighting each other. War is a supreme catalyst of technology; necessity is the mother of invention and war is her most powerful aspect. As a whole we actually grow stronger as the individuals compete. Many must die so that the best may grow, it's fundamental even to evolution.

Yes, I know. The day when an anthropoid found out he could kill another anthropoid with a rock, instead of killing the leopard that was threatening him, was a sad day. And I am sad that science and technology must find in war a way to grow.

However, I still think that this is not the only way in which we can grow. Mankind can be better and evolve in other ways, and better, if we try to focus our energy in other things that are not slaughtering each other with bigger and bigger weapons.

[SDF]

I don't think it's mostly american, I'm fairly sure it's celebrated in britain and france and Canada (I live in cananda). Yes, I agree art might be more universal but really can anyone say that they wanted the axis powers to win? I can't think of a single country today that would have the opinion that they wanted the Nazi's to rule the world.

Of course not. Nazis are the epitome of pulp villains. The only people that would like them are hate groups and the off rebellious youth that discovers Nazi mysticism. When you try to counter that argument physics breaks down, and you have to rely on Godwin's Law. That isn't the point. Google is a multinational corporation, servicing numerous countries that had no hand in the war. Anyone living in a country that did should be writing letters to the board of education if they don't know about D-Day, not Google. On the other hand how many people know about Diego Velázquez and his work? I can see getting upset if the company bashed the fighters of the war, but making a fuss because they mention something else that happened to occur on that date is silly.

[Skippy]

Of course not. Nazis are the epitome of pulp villains. The only people that would like them are hate groups and the off rebellious youth that discovers Nazi mysticism. When you try to counter that argument physics breaks down, and you have to rely on Godwin's Law. That isn't the point. Google is a multinational corporation, servicing numerous countries that had no hand in the war. Anyone living in a country that did should be writing letters to the board of education if they don't know about D-Day, not Google. On the other hand how many people know about Diego Velázquez and his work? I can see getting upset if the company bashed the fighters of the war, but making a fuss because they mention something else that happened to occur on that date is silly.

Thanks for illustrating my point in a clearer way. I think my short usage of English didn't allow me to say what you just said.

[FdL]

I'm sure they've done it before another year.

That said, I agree with Rubahkin.

I also think that the OP's concern is a great exaggeration.

[Raiser Blade]

That said, I agree with Rubahkin.


You also feel that D-Day is a mockery? Could you please explain because I am very confused at how one could feel that way about a day honoring and remembering soldiers.

[Mauve Shirt]

Yeah, companies really shouldn't have any public responsibility. Who gives a crap if you can dump radioactive waste but through the clever use of legal loopholes make it legal, amiright?

But it's Google. Their choice of what to celebrate isn't harming anyone. I'm sure there are better things to be offended at than what google does or doesn't do for June 6th.

This is like being upset that Rich didn't make an announcement on the News page about D-day.

[Athaniar]

Google is a search engine. Why in the world should Google, of all places, have a D-Day memorial announcement? D-Day shouldn't even be celebrated, it was a neccesary evil (don't misunderstand me, it eventually led to the end of one of mankind's darkest periods of history). We shouldn't celebrate killing, no matter the results. I, personally, didn't know you celebrated D-Day. Americans and their military.

[Player_Zero]

Google can do what it wants; I don't think that Giantitp.com had a update about it either and you're not complaining about that, huh? It's an independant website and doesn't have to listen to you.

[potatocubed]

See, the armed forces kill people. It's what they do. It's what they're for.

This means that you can see a celebration of a military conflict either as an honouring of the men and women who risk their lives in the pursuit of national interest, or as a celebration that 'hooray, thousands of people have died'.

[Zar Peter]

Google is a search engine. Why in the world should Google, of all places, have a D-Day memorial announcement? D-Day shouldn't even be celebrated, it was a neccesary evil (don't misunderstand me, it eventually led to the end of one of mankind's darkest periods of history). We shouldn't celebrate killing, no matter the results. I, personally, didn't know you celebrated D-Day. Americans and their military. Wouldn't surprise me if you celebrate the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, too.

First part: Totally agree with, thank you for expressing this.
Second part: No necessity for this, very close to flaming.

[Player_Zero]

On the subject of celebrating:

I think the point was to remember D-Day, so that it never has to happen again, not to revel in the deaths of many people.

[Athaniar]

No flaming intended, just curious. And tired. Sorry, I'm usually like that when I'm tired.

[Johnny Blade]

Look at the Chechen flag in my sig and tell me what a sunny, happy life war won for me, my brother. Tell me how I've forgotten about sacrifice.

I don't know. I don't like it, I don't like the happiness and mirth of these celebrations. But I myself don't have any better solution to suggest. I grieve for everyone's sacrifices, but that's what I do, I grieve. I don't feel right celebrating it. At the same time, there's a pain in my heart for the soldiers ... I don't know what to do for them. I just don't know. But somehow, I find the glorification and romanticism of these holidays to be in poor taste, to be a mockery, almost. Maybe it's a more correct and healthy attitude. I don't know.
See, I'm German. The soldiers who fought and died on D-Day 64 years ago actually did die for my freedom in a way, and for the lives of many, too.
They weren't the only ones, though.

And I do not want to celebrate the memory of this day in any way, as I see it as a mockery, too.

I mean, I'm lucky enough to never have seen a real war or military conflict or whatever name one should give it myself, but I think I've heard enough. From my grandparents as well as from people from Bosnia or Sudan.

What they told me had nothing to do with heroism and glory, to say the least.

This is why I see these holidays as a mockery: they turn the realities of war, of the soldiers fighting in them, into something romantic, into a polished version, into songs, ****ing songs about bravery and courage.
It turns war from a tragedy into a terrible necessity, into something that has to be done and is done by those of uncommon valor.
Who of course would never come home as broken and on the verge of insanity.
Nah, those holidays are for pretty boys who die for something meaningful, whatever they say that is right now, not for the average guy that doesn't know what to do after high school, signs up to join the military, sees all the terrors of war and shoots himself in the head 2 years and 5 therapies after he has returned home.


Oh, and by the way, I mourn the casualties and other consequences of any war or conflict.
That's another thing that "always" bothered me. Does anyone around here celebrate/remember February 2nd each year, which is the end of the battle for Stalingrad?
I guess not. I mean, I actually had to look that date up.
Dates are remembered because history ascribes importance to them and vindicates (or sometimes condemns) them.
And not everyone has the power to write history.

[Jack Squat]

Ok, before I start the actual post; rtg0922, those are helmets from WWI, not WWII, simple mistake if you're not all that interested in military history.

Now, onto the point.

I really don't care that Google decided to mention some artist that I've never heard of instead of D-Day. I know they've done D-Day before...I believe it may have been for the 60th anniversary, but I've got a horrible sense of time, so don't quote me on that.

No, the invasion of Normandy is not something that needs to be forgotten, but it's also not something we need to make the priority of our lives. Both my grandparents served in the military (one in the navy in WWII, the other in the Air Force in Korea), and I definitely understand the importance of showing respect to the military, but I don't get outraged that none of my neighbors put up a flag for Memorial Day (I actually didn't get a chance to this year because our pole mount broke the day before...still need to fix that), or that some people don't stand for the pledge.


On "military celebrations", which I'm taking to include D-Day, Veteran's Day, Memorial Day, and probably another one or two in the US that I'm forgetting about. It's not about celebrating what soldiers do, because we (meaning most of us sensible people) know they commit evils every day that we can't fathom. It's not about celebrating that so many people died, or mourning that so many on our side did. It's not about celebration at all. These days are meant to show support for the people who have the cajones to jump into battle in order to protect the ideals of millions of people they don't know, whether it was one specific event (D-Day), or just in general (Memorial Day, Veteran's Day). I may not always agree with why our men are sent off to where they are (be it now or 150 years ago), but I have the utmost respect for them for doing it.

*steps off soapbox*

carry on with your conversation now.

[Illiterate Scribe]

I think that the issue lies in the selectivity. Are we going to make the same furore and be 'extremely disappointed' when Google neglects to remember the dead of the Rwandan Genocide? The anniversary of its ending is but a month away, and I suspect that we won't.

As such, the concern is that one issue - a war - is being seen as somehow 'more worthy of remembering' than one of the most terrible genocides in history, which occurred less than 15 years ago. If we remember things with 'never again' in our hearts, then why pick and choose some over others? Of course, this touches on the entire problem with anniversaries, special days/weeks/months - they give us a nice comfortable way of feeling that we're doing good, when in reality it's a token gesture.


Also, in before lock.

[NikkTheTrick]

Yeah, companies really shouldn't have any public responsibility. Who gives a crap if you can dump radioactive waste but through the clever use of legal loopholes make it legal, amiright?
There is a BIG difference between not doing something in the first place (not celebrating) and doing actual harm (dumping radioactive waste).

Forcing companies or individuals to celebrate national holidays is... dangerous... Sounds too 1984 to me.

If you are so upset about it, stop using google. You can contact them, but most you will get is "what we celebrate or don't celebrate is none of your buisness" in a polite manner.

[Johnny Blade]

On "military celebrations", which I'm taking to include D-Day, Veteran's Day, Memorial Day, and probably another one or two in the US that I'm forgetting about. It's not about celebrating what soldiers do, because we (meaning most of us sensible people) know they commit evils every day that we can't fathom. It's not about celebrating that so many people died, or mourning that so many on our side did. It's not about celebration at all. These days are meant to show support for the people who have the cajones to jump into battle in order to protect the ideals of millions of people they don't know, whether it was one specific event (D-Day), or just in general (Memorial Day, Veteran's Day). I may not always agree with why our men are sent off to where they are (be it now or 150 years ago), but I have the utmost respect for them for doing it.
See...I kinda agree. I have the utmost respect for any person that has to endure a war, be it a soldier or a civilian.

It's just that I think we should remember them quietly. A holiday lends itself to propagandistic exploitation way too easily.
I mean, it takes war and de-humanizes it in a sense: it takes the actual human experiences out of it and instead turns a war or whatever is remembered into an idealized image.
I hope it's understandable what I mean.

That's where the issue Illiterate Scribe - And me! Me too! - raised comes into play: There's always someone who decides what is remembered.
I'd go even further: as soon as holidays are established, there also always is the danger of someone deciding what it is remembered for.

Of course, we are lucky enough to be free from the propaganda that's used in certain other countries or was used in ours in past decades. But it's still easy enough to manipulate people.
I don't even think those behind this "manipulation" always intend to do it - it just happens, as they, like everyone else, have their opinions, only that theirs are published or find their way into their speeches somehow.

Anyway, that's why I think those holidays at least border on being tasteless. First, they (often) mark certain events, certain deaths as more important than others.
And they idealize what is remembered and open it up for interpretation, which may or may not lead to propagandistic abuse.


*steps off soapbox*
Pretty unimportant sidenote: Why do people always think that self-deprecation is a necessity when talking about such issues? :smalltongue:

[Jack Squat]

See...I kinda agree. I have the utmost respect for any person that has to endure a war, be it a soldier or a civilian.

It's just that I think we should remember them quietly. A holiday lends itself to propagandistic exploitation way too easily.
I mean, it takes war and de-humanizes it in a sense: it takes the actual human experiences out of it and instead turns a war or whatever is remembered into an idealized image.
I hope it's understandable what I mean.

I completely understand what you're saying, and to a point I agree. But being one of those kids who grew up watching the History Channel, I say any reason to get people to maybe get the urge to look back in to history and see why we have these holidays is a good thing. Knowledge is power and all that.


Also, this thread is at the very least bordering on poilitical. Any further conversation's probably best to be through PM or An alternative site (http://z12.invisionfree.com/The_Veritas_Sanctum/index.php?act=idx).


Pretty unimportant sidenote: Why do people always think that self-deprecation is a necessity when talking about such issues? :smalltongue:

If you've ever ran into (or in my case, mocked) those people shouting in the streets about whatever, you'd see the (however slight) resembelences. Also, I was listening to Supertramp's A Soapbox Opera, so it seemed like a good idea at the time.

[Johnny Blade]

If you've ever ran into (or in my case, mocked) those people shouting in the streets about whatever, you'd see the (however slight) resembelences. Also, I was listening to Supertramp's A Soapbox Opera, so it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Oh, I was aware of ... well, the first reason, at least. :smallwink:
It's just that it always irritates me when people do this. To me, it somehow feels like selling yourself short, although the intent is often an entirely different one. Could just be me, though.

Anyway, you're right. This is at least bordering on a forum rule violation.
I'll send you a PM tomorrow, as I'm too tired to express my thoughts in a coherent way now. If you're interested in a further discussion, that is.

[Jack Squat]

Oh, I was aware of ... well, the first reason, at least. :smallwink:
It's just that it always irritates me when people do this. To me, it somehow feels like selling yourself short, although the intent is often an entirely different one. Could just be me, though.

A Soapbox Opera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OypGg5qTW8E)...not really relevant at all, but it's been stuck in my head for awhile.


Anyway, you're right. This is at least bordering on a forum rule violation.
I'll send you a PM tomorrow, as I'm too tired to express my thoughts in a coherent way now. If you're interested in a further discussion, that is.

Sure, my PM box is always open for discussions (no seriously...it's got like 5 in it)

[Renegade Paladin]

No, I didn't say that. As I said, I am completely aware of the historic importance of D-Day. I respect that. However, the whole WWII is something I am ashamed of, as a member of the human race. I agree that the Nazi regime was a mistake, and I am glad the Axis lost the war. I wish, however, that none of that would have happened. That so many lives were lost. That the Atomic Bomb had to be used. That the world had to be torn apart the way it was torn.

The way I see it, I prefer to embrace all the goodness Mankind has created. All forms of art, anything that gives us hope in ourselves, rather than anything that reminds us of a day when men had to rise and kill each other because of a megalomaniac's crazy ideas.
We all wish that, but it's beside the point. At the end of the day, it happened, and no amount of wishing will make it not have happened. And for the West to stick its collective head in the sand and pretend it wasn't happening rather than going to war to stop it would have been utterly disastrous. And the day may come again when men will have to rise and fight to stop a megalomaniac's crazy ideas.

History is a harsh and thorough teacher, and is all too willing to repeat lessons if they are forgotten. I'd rather that be one we don't have to learn again.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

On the subject of celebrating:

I think the point was to remember D-Day, so that it never has to happen again, not to revel in the deaths of many people.

My post is a little tardy, but I think this is important.

Who knows exactly what the person had in mind when they put D-Day decorations on the Google page. You can give them the benefit of the doubt, or assume the worst.

I can understand why some people might think we are celebrating war on D-Day, when festive cookouts are the norm on Memorial Day (which should be a solemn occasion, rather than a start-of-summertime celebration), and some of those who have lived through the horrors of war may not be very interested in going to a military parade on Veteran's Day, feeling that giving honor (glory?) to warriors is tantamount to condoning war.

But as far as my personal feelings on D-Day, I think Player_Zero was right on. I might celebrate "V-E Day," but I don't "celebrate" D-Day, I "commemorate" it. I commemorate the loss of life on both sides. I also honor the incredible bravery it took to make an amphibious landing while your comrades left and right are being killed, though I understand how some can debate that as being glorification of war (I certainly don't wish more of such battles upon anyone). If I do celebrate D-Day at all, it is because it is considered by some to be the beginning of the end of World War II, which also put an end to Hitler's machinations.

I subscribe to several professional military periodicals, and many of the articles describe events where veterans from previously opposing armies meet at the site of their battle to talk and share what they have in common and grieve the reasons that they had to come together and fight.

I'm curious - does anyone know if Google has commemorated Pearl Harbor Day, or the sinking of the Lusitania? Or perhaps some other tragedies... I don't want to get specific here because of the obvious sensitivity of the subject, but there have been many events in history that were considered "battles" by one side and "massacres" by the other.