Battlefleet Gothic

[Lord_Asmodeus]

This a thread for all things Battlefleet Gothic


I was just reconsidering getting back into BFG, and I was curious who else ITP played BFG?

Also, anyone know why the Adeptus Mechanicus cruisers and light cruisers are $20.00 a ship, but regular cruisers are 2 for $15?

P.S. for anyone who doesn't know, this is BFG (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landingArmy.jsp?catId=cat200200&rootCatGameStyle=specialist-games)

[SolkaTruesilver]

Hum.. seems they came up with another way to make money.

It seems.. well, I suppose. I always wanted to simulate Fleet Battle, I'll look it up. Sadly, I guess there are way less players of this than W40k in my city :smallfrown:

I am not sure I am happy with the Tau warship color theme, however. They look like U.N. Starships, or Red Cross ones.

[Bryn]

The miracle of wargames, as opposed to computer strategy, is that you don't have to use any ordained colour scheme, or even models. Paint your Tau in Communist colours if you like, it will sure be fun to meet on the tabletop.

I do not play BFG, because nobody else does in my area and spaceships don't have as many opportunities for conversions and amazing models (though I am considering taking it up). I have read the background parts of the rulebook, however, and I love the look on 40k spaceships - most especially the picture on pages 118-9 of the main WH40k rulebook (seriously, find it, it is worth seeing).

I am a big fan of the background and the wonderful gothic style used by the game, and though I can't say whether or not the rules are any good, I can say that the fluff is good enough that it's inspired me to create and animate them with CGI (submitted for Media Studies, and I'll post it after it's marked).

I would imagine that the price difference is due to different models. I don't know if they're plastic, but I do know that the standard cruiser model is a customisable multi-part kit, which might explain why it is cheaper. Alternatively, the Mechanicus cruisers might just be more detailed or something.

Solka, the Specialist Games, of which Battlefleet Gothic is just one of many, have been around for a while (with the exception of Aeronautica Imperialis). In addition to BFG, check out Epic, Necromunda, and Inquisitor, all of which look to be pretty fun games (and none of which I have the opportunity to play :smallamused:) Also, since it wasn't linked to in the OP, Games Workshop have provided all of the Specialist Games for free (the rulebooks, that is, not the models): look here (http://www.specialist-games.com/games.asp).

[SolkaTruesilver]

Well, thank you! I already noticed that I could download those rulebooks, I certainly shall, to enjoy the whole thing.

I am certain it wouldn't be that hard to create a smalls software to simulate this battle game. Since, there is obviously WAY less items to take care of than vanilla 40k (come on, this game is, what? 10 vs 10 ships? as opposed to 100 models Vs 100).

[Cristo Meyers]

Played it for awhile when it first came out years ago, but lost all my ships. It was fun.

Now though, I'd rather play Full Thrust.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Played it for awhile when it first came out years ago, but lost all my ships. It was fun.

Now though, I'd rather play Full Thrust.

So, the models genuinely blow up when you loose them in battle..?

[Lord_Asmodeus]

No... I lost all my ships too, because my family moved...

[Cristo Meyers]

So, the models genuinely blow up when you loose them in battle..?

*laughs* Don't go giving GW any more ideas...

Nah, same reason as Lord Asmodeus, we moved and they didn't make it.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

What confuses me right now is, why are the Imps and the Chaos, the only fleets who's cruisers are not made of metal, and therefore cheap? I mean yea GW is as greedy as any other capitalist corporation, but thats just sort of stupid, why make something out of more expensive materials, when you would probably make more money by making them cheap?

[SolkaTruesilver]

*laughs* Don't go giving GW any more ideas...

Nah, same reason as Lord Asmodeus, we moved and they didn't make it.

I take it the models are really fragile?

How big is the regular battlecruiser, by the way?

[Lord_Asmodeus]

They aren't really that fragile, its just like with any other small plastic objects, with all the hubbub of moving, they get misplaced and never seen again...

[Were-Sandwich]

Played it for awhile when it first came out years ago, but lost all my ships. It was fun.

Now though, I'd rather play Full Thrust.

Indeed. Full Thrust is a much better game.

[Cristo Meyers]

They aren't really that fragile, its just like with any other small plastic objects, with all the hubbub of moving, they get misplaced and never seen again...

Aye. The cruisers I had were actually pretty durable, as plastic goes. We think the box I had them in just ended up in the "throw away" pile instead of the "to new place" pile.

If'n I remember correctly, the cruisers (the bulk of your fleet, usually) were maybe about 2-3 inches long and the pewter battleships and such could get almost twice that. The little frigates and escorts were like an inch.

Still, my recommendation is buy the models if you want them, but use the Full Thrust rules. BFG was a good game (most of GW's Specialist games are), but Full Thrust is just better.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Never even heard of full thrust, and I like BFG. Right now, I'm thinking of starting an Ad Mech fleet, an Eldar fleet, or an Ork fleet... but I don't know if they're worth the money...

[Cristo Meyers]

Full Thrust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Thrust) by wikipedia

The Rules (http://www.groundzerogames.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=9&id=29&Itemid=50) from Ground Zero Games (Full Thrust and Fleet Books 1 & 2 are all you need)

Rules are a free download and use pretty much use whatever models you have available.

Can't say much about what fleet is worth what in BFG. When I was playing, it was only Imperials, Chaos, some Orks, and some Eldar.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I've been reading the rules and, I don't know about after page 5, but so far it doesn't look that different from BFG, I mean what makes it better than BFG? One of the things I liked about BFG is (for a wargame) its pretty simple.

[Cristo Meyers]

*shrugs* Maybe it's just more a preference thing. Full Thrust has rules for making your own ships. It's not quite I go U go, either. You plot out your orders for each ship ahead of time before determining firing.

Dunno, it's been ages since I've played BFG, so maybe things have changed more than I usually give GW credit for.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Yea... Well, I've decided. I shall collect Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator vessels. And I know how to combine it with a future Chaos fleet... "We shall know all things" :smallamused:

[puppyavenger]

Anyone know where the new speicilist games site is?

[Lord_Asmodeus]

They didn't change it, just the original GW site (http://www.specialist-games.com/)

[puppyavenger]

They didn't change it, just the original GW site (http://www.specialist-games.com/)

I mean the one they talk about here



Regular visitors to the site will have noticed a lack of updates recently. This has been because of some behind-the-scenes changes that are now slowly coming to fruition.

As American readers will probably already know, there’s a brand new Games Workshop website that’s gone live recently. This is just the first stage of a global web launch. As part of that plan Games Workshop’s Specialist Game support will be integrated the new site, giving it a much more prominent status than the range currently has.

There’s also other changes afoot – the recent global range review that has been carried out means that Specialist Games products are now widely available in all parts of the world. A feat that has eluded us until now as the many hobbyists in Australia will attest to. We’re also building the range back up again, with Blood Bowl players being the first to gain with team booster packs that will be coming in July. Theses are 4-man blisters with a selection of positional players allowing you modify your teams. There’ll also be a Goblin Secret Weapons blister for all you cheeky greenskin players. The other Specialist Games will also get similar packs in the future.

The new website has no forum provision, however, as these areas on the current site have developed a community and unique character of their own they are also moving to a new home. Under the guidance of Lex (the head-moderator) and with invaluable help from EpiCom’s Cybershadow the forums will be migrating to a new place with the only difference being a change to the URL. Many of the Moderators and Answer-Mods who look after the forum on a voluntary basis will be also making the move to the Specialist Games forum’s new home. I wish all who post and sail in her well!

So, there’s loads happening for the Specialist Games and more to come in the future. However, this point effectively ends the “Fanatic” era of support. This website will no longer be updated as all future material will be published on the new sites. On behalf of Jervis and myself I’d like to thank all the contributors, Fanatic team members from the past (Steve, you're still remembered), and, most importantly, you – the players of the Specialist Games.

For now,
Andy @ Fanatic

[SolkaTruesilver]

What about StarFleet Battles? Somebody compared it to BFG or Full Trust?

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I mean the one they talk about here


Huh, dunno then.

[Cristo Meyers]

What about StarFleet Battles? Somebody compared it to BFG or Full Trust?

Heard a little about it, though never played it. From what I understand, it plays well, but it can get really overcomplicated. BFG is probably the simplest and Full Thrust is a bit more complicated than BFG.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Anybody know if there are any like, fully completed Battlefleet Gothic mods (for PC games)

[puppyavenger]

Anybody know if there are any like, fully completed Battlefleet Gothic mods (for PC games)

well, I supose you could use sins of a solar empire. Anyone else no any space-fighting games?

[SolkaTruesilver]

well, I supose you could use sins of a solar empire. Anyone else no any space-fighting games?

*slaps puppyavenger*

Homeworld!!!

[Illiterate Scribe]

I mean yea GW is as greedy as any other capitalist corporation, but thats just sort of stupid, why make something out of more expensive materials, when you would probably make more money by making them cheap?

I hear that those communist corporations are beating them out.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Well I mean like ones that are done, I know of a bunch of BFG mods but none of them are DONE :smallannoyed:


I hear that those communist corporations are beating them out.

So we can expect Tau to rise in popularity?

[Stoneburr]

BFG is fun, I only borrowed my friends' fleets, but it was the same sort of awesome as the ground troops, only with less choices.

My favorite moment was when a fairly young eldar player was told by my friend (who played Tyranids) that the nid hive ship actually consumed his favorite capital ship whole. The poor kid got all wide eyed, and starting sniffling. :eek:

[LordVader]

I'm starting it, am going to pick up a crapton of Imperial Fleet at Baltimore Games Day this year.

[LBO]

What confuses me right now is, why are the Imps and the Chaos, the only fleets who's cruisers are not made of metal, and therefore cheap? I mean yea GW is as greedy as any other capitalist corporation, but thats just sort of stupid, why make something out of more expensive materials, when you would probably make more money by making them cheap?
Imperial and Chaos cruisers have the most different options and classes, meaning a multi-part plastic kit is much more effective (you can make any one of tonnes of different cruisers and battlecruisers from the one kit). Everyone else only has a few ship types, with major differences between them, which can be made more cost-effectively (from GW's point of view) with metal blister packs.

[puppyavenger]

Imperial and Chaos cruisers have the most different options and classes, meaning a multi-part plastic kit is much more effective (you can make any one of tonnes of different cruisers and battlecruisers from the one kit). Everyone else only has a few ship types, with major differences between them, which can be made more cost-effectively (from GW's point of view) with metal blister packs.

the nids? they're entiry fleet is based on altering their ships. plus escorts with crab-claws.

[RandomLunatic]

I used to play BFG couple years back-before I discovered the people I played with were a mixture of a-holes and cheaters, with varying degrees of stupid thrown in for good measure. Plus, I dropped my collection several times, breaking about 80% of my ships.

Chaos and Imperial Cruisers/Heavy Cruisers/Battlecruisers are all 10 cm long, stem to stern, not counting the prow rams (or Nova Cannon) on the Imperial ships. This is incredibly handy to remember when trying to guess those Nova Cannon shots...:smallamused: Ork and Eldar ships are about the same size. The others I am not familiar with.

As for SFB vs BFG:

SFB and BFG sit on polar opposite ends of the complexity spectrum. BFG is very beer-and-pretzals-SFB is absolutely not. This is readily apparent in the way ship stats are tracked-BFG uses a couple of numbers, which can all be easily committed to memory (at least for me), and can be fit 5 to a page (even more if you delete all the fancy formatting GW uses for their official fleet rosters). SFB, well, take a gander at this. (http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/tournament/ssd/2005_Tournament_FED.pdf) And that is a slightly simplified SSD for tourney play.

They also are of different scale-BFG takes place at at least the squadron, if not the fleet, level. A one-on-one duel between two like ships is generally pointless, as neither has the firepower to damage the other. SFB, by contrast, is quite usable for a duel (a ship has more than enough firepower to reduce a similarly-sized enemy to space debris), and works ok, if increasingly slowly, up to squadron level. A fleet engagement is not recommended unless you have a lot of spare time to kill.

They play very differently too. BFG ships are fairly clumsy and mount most of their guns on the sides. This tends to lead to battlelines exchanging broadsides Jutland-style. SFB ships are faster, more manueverable, mount most of their firepower facing forward, and have much shorter effective ranges, which results in battles resembling dogfights.

Finally, there is time. Two BFG players can finish a 750 point game and start on a second in the time it takes two SFB players to figure out how badly two ships hurt each other in a short-range exchange (Answer: Very)

Now, do not take this as an attack on either-I enjoy both.

[LBO]

Yeah, but Nids only came out as a fleet under Specialist Games, who don't have the resources to put out plastic kits.

Although way back when Gothicmag was still running, there was an intriguing article on making bug ships out of the (then-new) Gaunt and Warrior sprues.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Yeah, but Nids only came out as a fleet under Specialist Games, who don't have the resources to put out plastic kits.

Although way back when Gothicmag was still running, there was an intriguing article on making bug ships out of the (then-new) Gaunt and Warrior sprues.

Well, the Ad Mech work on the same principle, where theres 3 battleships, like 4-5 cruisers, and like 4-5 light cruisers you can make, but they're still 20$ for a cruiser or light cruiser.

[LBO]

Because Admech were also made under Specialist Games. The original four fleets (Imps, Chaos, Eldar and Orks) were put out when BFG was one of GW's "flagship" (ahaha) products, and the Imperial and Chaos ships got the plastic kit treatment. Specialist Games simply don't have the resources to make multi-part plastic kits.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Hum.. for Star Fleet Battles, what do I need to start playing that game? It sounds nice. Just the idea of being able to do ship duels seems really neat, and the whole complexity also seems nice.

I tried finding sourcebooks on Ebay, but there weren't many. The homepage of SFB is.. err.. kinda blur about it. Do I need to buy models? Or the rulebook? Individual ships?

[RandomLunatic]

Hum.. for Star Fleet Battles, what do I need to start playing that game? It sounds nice. Just the idea of being able to do ship duels seems really neat, and the whole complexity also seems nice.

I tried finding sourcebooks on Ebay, but there weren't many. The homepage of SFB is.. err.. kinda blur about it. Do I need to buy models? Or the rulebook? Individual ships?

To play SFB, all you need is hexgrid, counters, (http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/CadetCounters.pdf) SSDs, (http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/CadetSSDs.pdf) and rules. (http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/CadetHandbook.pdf) These links will help you get started-eventually, you will want to pick up the whole thing, as the cadet rules are very watered-down. You can just pick up the rule books and SSd books and save a bit, or just bite the bullet for counters too.

We now return to your regularly-scheduled BFG discussion.[/derail]

[TheThan]

If you’re interested in a GOOD space strategy game, I would suggest Babylon 5: A call to Arms. (second edition)

But unfortunately it recently died, so good luck finding models for it.

Stupid mongoose and their “ooh shinny syndrome”…

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Well I just got my Adeptus Mechanicus battleship yesterday, but I have yet to figure out what to make. I don't think I want the Emperor class, so either an Oberon, a Retribution, or an Ark Mechanicus would be nice. The Oberon is looking good right now, but I really like the power of the Retributions broadsides, but the Ark Mechanicus is pretty nifty... but the things which make it great can be done about as well as the Oberon, and it gets attack craft as well... I hate being indicisive :smallannoyed:. Any opinions?

[Wizzardman]

Yeah, but Nids only came out as a fleet under Specialist Games, who don't have the resources to put out plastic kits.

Although way back when Gothicmag was still running, there was an intriguing article on making bug ships out of the (then-new) Gaunt and Warrior sprues.

http://www.dysartes.com/model/conversion/hivefleet.php

This'll help.

So, right, Star Fleet games play like dogfights in space (but with bigger ships), and Battlefleet Gothic fleets play like advanced versions of old naval battles (what with their broadside-capabilities and the poor maneuverability of their larger ships). What do Full Thrust games play like?

As for which battleship for the Adeptus Mechanicus: I just built a fleet for it a few weeks ago, and I gotta say that if you aren't going for an Emperor Class (which is still pretty useful with AdMech), I'd say go for the Ark Mechanicus.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I was thinking that too, but I like the Oberon, I don't know why its worth so few points, it seems pretty useful.

[Wizzardman]

I was thinking that too, but I like the Oberon, I don't know why its worth so few points, it seems pretty useful.

The Oberon is a pretty good ship. Its kinda unpopular, though, because of the lack of front plating, the low lance strength, and the low fighter/bomber count. For all around abilities, however, its not too bad. And it does give some nice advantages.

[Breltar]

I looked into both BFG and Full Thrust but ended up with Full Thrust because my conversion and modelling side got the best of me. The ability to design and have rules for any ship you create makes it superior in my opinion. The game is simple enough that even non gamers figure it out easily and doesnt break the bank in the slightest if you build your own ships.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

My god. I started putting together my battleship, and I'm so pissed at GW. Not only does the ****ing thing arrive in like a dozen pieces, a stark contrast to every other model I got for BFG (all of which were at least partly constructed, even the Grand Cruiser and the Battleship. And I mean, this wouldn't have been so bad, but they DON'T GIVE YOU INSTRUCTIONS. They just ship you the goddamn thing and expect you to figure out how the hell to put it together on your own. Needless to say, I am VERY ANGRY :smallfurious:

Edit: And oh, its not just that they don't give you instructions, but the pieces that ARE supposed to fit together (like the engines and the back of your starship, or the mechanicus icons, which no, they do not just put on the main body) or are just broken.

WHAT THE HELL GW?!? WHAT THE HELL?

[Breltar]

WHAT THE HELL GW?!? WHAT THE HELL?

They dont make much money from BFG and only care about Fantasy and 40k. You can find more diverse and visually appealing models in the same scale from a variety of different companies.

[Wizzardman]

They dont make much money from BFG and only care about Fantasy and 40k. You can find more diverse and visually appealing models in the same scale from a variety of different companies.

...Elaborate, please?

I've been somewhat less than pleased with the Battlefleet Gothic ships I have purchased. If you could point me in the directions of some pictures of other potential ship models, I'd be much obliged.

[Were-Sandwich]

Ground Zero Games's starship range (http://www.gtns.co.uk/store1/commerce.cgi?page=ft-fp.html&cart_id=7243618.27402) is massive, very cheap (especially compared to GW) and has a variety of nice looking ships.

[Breltar]

...Elaborate, please?

I've been somewhat less than pleased with the Battlefleet Gothic ships I have purchased. If you could point me in the directions of some pictures of other potential ship models, I'd be much obliged.

Well I will let others show theirs by pointing you at one of the best starship gaming forums/site/news board...

http://www.star-ranger.com/Home.htm

There you should be able to find all sorts, from BFG models, other companies models, or plans and bashed ones that folks made themselves.

Ive kit bashed and homebuilt whole fleets for Full Thrust and had it cost nothing to play a game that is well thought out. For GW to charge what they do for what they do is kinda sad once you look at what others charge for superior products.