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R.O.A.
2008-06-07, 01:04 PM
Ok, within D&D 3.5ed, I would like some clever chaps to help me understand how it works if you have a character with a half-human in thier ancestry (Half-elf, half-orc, whatever). There's quite a lot of halfers around, so surely there's lots of people descended from halves, characters with a fully human pedigree except for his half fiend Grandad for example.

How do you make a 1/8 elf, or a 1/4 orc? :smallconfused:

Thank you!:smallbiggrin:

Szilard
2008-06-07, 01:06 PM
I'm guessing it would influence personality and looks, and maybe favored class, but use human stats.

monty
2008-06-07, 01:15 PM
Half-fiend grandpa would be a tiefling, I assume. However, the blood is probably only strong enough for such a significant effect if it was originally a powerful creature. In most cases, it would probably only affect looks, with maybe a minor skill bonus or something.

If you want to use real-world biology (does that kill catgirls too?), then you might want to do something like randomly pick 1/4 (or whatever fraction) of the original race's traits.

Jayngfet
2008-06-07, 02:02 PM
Half outsiders are planetouched(If you want templates check my sig, I plan to do every type of core outsider)

I guess part humans get 1d4 extera skill points per level or Half dwarves get a saving throw against poison, I may homebrew somesuch after I'm done with planetouched.

puppyavenger
2008-06-07, 02:12 PM
what stats do a 3/4 fiend use?
that is, your fathers a half-fiend and you mothers a succubus.

Guildorn Tanaleth
2008-06-07, 02:27 PM
If you want to use real-world biology (does that kill catgirls too?), then you might want to do something like randomly pick 1/4 (or whatever fraction) of the original race's traits.

Actually, by real-world biology, any cross between two different species is, by definition, sterile. Hence, the only possible hybrid combination (ignoring magic) is a human with a member of another (non-hybrid) race.

Hesquidor
2008-06-07, 03:28 PM
Forgive me if I'm wrong (I'm pretty much a newbie to dnd), but I thought I read somewhere that once a the race tipped the halfway mark they were treated as a full blooded member of the predominant race eg;

Half-Elf + Half-Elf = Half-Elf
Half-Elf + Elf = Elf

---Edit: Turns out I was thinking of a 2nd ed supplement that I found in the attic and got it completely wrong anyways. According to it "Half-elves have at least half elf in their blood; those half-elves that breed back with elves are always considered half-elven reguardless of how long ago the non-elven blood was introduced. Those half-elves who do not breed with elves (thus dilluting the elven strain further) are considered by elves to be totally non-elven. These crosses have none of the abilities normally associated with either elves or half-elves."

Flickerdart
2008-06-07, 03:56 PM
This is probably covered in the Book of Erotic Fantasy or whatever it's called. Anyone sicksilly enough to have read it?

Collin152
2008-06-07, 04:14 PM
what stats do a 3/4 fiend use?
that is, your fathers a half-fiend and you mothers a succubus.

Succubi don't get pregnant.
It inhibits their duties.
Your mother was a half-fiend and your father was an incubus.

Jayngfet
2008-06-07, 04:32 PM
Succubi don't get pregnant.
It inhibits their duties.
Your mother was a half-fiend and your father was an incubus.

I think Aliiza from the war of the spider queen was half succubus.

Guildorn Tanaleth
2008-06-07, 04:33 PM
Forgive me if I'm wrong (I'm pretty much a newbie to dnd), but I thought I read somewhere that once a the race tipped the halfway mark they were treated as a full blooded member of the predominant race eg;

Half-Elf + Half-Elf = Half-Elf
Half-Elf + Elf = Elf

I think you're thinking of the fact that Half-Elves & Half-Orcs (and probably some other half-races) are treated as Elves & Orcs for "any effects related to race," as the SRD states.


Succubi don't get pregnant.
It inhibits their duties.

Or does it make them better?

puppyavenger
2008-06-07, 04:33 PM
Succubi don't get pregnant.
It inhibits their duties.
Your mother was a half-fiend and your father was an incubus.

okay, so anyone know the answer?

Collin152
2008-06-07, 04:37 PM
okay, so anyone know the answer?

Either use a weaker fiend or a half-fiend.
Maybe with some Warlock levels.

Mewtarthio
2008-06-07, 04:49 PM
I think Aliiza from the war of the spider queen was half succubus.

Well, traditionally, succubi didn't get pregnant. They did, however, store their victim's seed, which could later impregnate human women when the demon shifted into incubus form, as I recall.

Thus, there's no weird half-breeding going on here. It's a genetically human child that's been twisted with demonic power.

Jayngfet
2008-06-07, 04:54 PM
Well, traditionally, succubi didn't get pregnant. They did, however, store their victim's seed, which could later impregnate human women when the demon shifted into incubus form, as I recall.

Thus, there's no weird half-breeding going on here. It's a genetically human child that's been twisted with demonic power.

I remember those as mythological succubus, but there is nothing in the MM saying the same thing applies.

Dervag
2008-06-07, 05:25 PM
I remember those as mythological succubus, but there is nothing in the MM saying the same thing applies.On the other hand, there's no reason to assume they don't work like that, either. It's a logical ruling and it has the advantage of being supported in the 'source material' that served as the basis for the monster concept.

Optional, but a good option, if you know what I mean.

Jayngfet
2008-06-07, 05:31 PM
On the other hand, there's no reason to assume they don't work like that, either. It's a logical ruling and it has the advantage of being supported in the 'source material' that served as the basis for the monster concept.

Optional, but a good option, if you know what I mean.

Theres also debate on weather demons are even sterile, and furter debate among those who think so weather children are born as normal kids, stupid and lazy, pure evil, or what have you.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get the mental image of a satanic drag queen trying to seduce me:smalleek:.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-06-07, 05:32 PM
Here's a link to a nice flaw for making a quarter elf:

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Quarter_Elf,all

Something similar could be done with a half orc.

For the 1/8 elf I'd just use a human. Possibly a human with with low light vision and or pointy ears.

For the half fiend grand dad I'd use either a +1 LA Tiefling or a +0 LA Planetouched (Tiefling) from PGtF.

Collin152
2008-06-07, 05:35 PM
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get the mental image of a satanic drag queen trying to seduce me:smalleek:.

Does it speak like a chain-smoker?
It should.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-06-07, 05:55 PM
I think Aliiza from the war of the spider queen was half succubus.

She was an alu-fiend. The parentage isn't very clear; AD&D male half-fiends are called cambions and are all pretty much identical, and female half-fiends are called alu-fiends are all pretty much identical, but very succubus-like.

SurlySeraph
2008-06-07, 06:29 PM
Half outsiders are planetouched(If you want templates check my sig, I plan to do every type of core outsider)

I guess part humans get 1d4 extera skill points per level or Half dwarves get a saving throw against poison, I may homebrew somesuch after I'm done with planetouched.

1d4 extra skill points averages out to 2.5, more than actual humans get.

Personally, I'd say there should be no statistical changes for quarter-elves or quarter-humans or whatnot. Just give them the same stats as full members of whatever race they're closest to and keep the rest as fluff.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-06-07, 10:37 PM
Races of Faerun had the Spellsinger PRC. I thought it was interesting that it required the PC to be at least 1/8 elvish.

Hairb
2008-06-07, 10:53 PM
The Regional feats of Greyhawk series in Dragon featured a feat (possibly called Orc-Blooded or some permutation thereof) that gave the PC have a distant orc ancestor. The crunch benefit was darkvision to 30ft, or something similar. A partially orc human might be forced to take that as his bonus feat and gain bonuses to height and weight.
EDIT: The feat (Orc Blooded) appears in Dragon #315. It gives the character 30ft darkvision and barbarian as a favoured class. It can only be taken at 1st level, obviously

If you want to use real-world biology (does that kill catgirls too?), then you might want to do something like randomly pick 1/4 (or whatever fraction) of the original race's traits.

It kills people who think that they are/were FFVII characters in another life/dimension. That's why my next D&D campaign will feature Linnean classification of all non-outsiders. :smallwink:

CASTLEMIKE
2008-06-08, 02:00 AM
Orc Blooded feat snapshot:
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Orc_Blooded,all

The Extinguisher
2008-06-08, 02:33 AM
It kills people who think that they are/were FFVII characters in another life/dimension. That's why my next D&D campaign will feature Linnean classification of all non-outsiders. :smallwink:

I tried to taxonimize all the different races of D&D, assuming magic is involved for half-breeds and such.
It didn't go so well.

Jayngfet
2008-06-08, 01:04 PM
She was an alu-fiend. The parentage isn't very clear; AD&D male half-fiends are called cambions and are all pretty much identical, and female half-fiends are called alu-fiends are all pretty much identical, but very succubus-like.

She explicitly stated half succubus.

Nikolai_II
2008-06-08, 02:04 PM
Forgive me if I'm wrong (I'm pretty much a newbie to dnd), but I thought I read somewhere that once a the race tipped the halfway mark they were treated as a full blooded member of the predominant race eg;

Half-Elf + Half-Elf = Half-Elf
Half-Elf + Elf = Elf

---Edit: Turns out I was thinking of a 2nd ed supplement that I found in the attic and got it completely wrong anyways. According to it "Half-elves have at least half elf in their blood; those half-elves that breed back with elves are always considered half-elven reguardless of how long ago the non-elven blood was introduced. Those half-elves who do not breed with elves (thus dilluting the elven strain further) are considered by elves to be totally non-elven. These crosses have none of the abilities normally associated with either elves or half-elves."

True. Course, I run it your way anyway.
Another GM I saw let people include random visual traits from other races (like elf ears on a human) without getting anything else from it. (This to symbolize ancient interbreeding)

hamishspence
2008-06-09, 07:15 AM
X-blooded feats mostly cater to sorcerers.

Some 1/4 blood templates exist (draconic means 1/4 or less dragon blood, plus dragonblood feats exist if you want thinner blood)

5/8 demon: cambion from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits (parents: fiend, tiefling)

3/4 demon: Baron/marquis cambion (parents: fiend, 1/2 fiend)

Also there are non-human planetouched: fey-ri (elf/demon) tannaruk (orc/demon) and others.

Patashu
2008-06-09, 07:48 AM
Why is the other half always human, anyway? What, you never see an elf decide to get randy with an orc?

StickMan
2008-06-09, 08:45 AM
Actually, by real-world biology, any cross between two different species is, by definition, sterile. Hence, the only possible hybrid combination (ignoring magic) is a human with a member of another (non-hybrid) race.

This is not actually true some different species can actually interbred without becoming sternal, all the one I know are from the Canidae family. Dogs and Wolfs (Although they are one species technically) as well Wolfs and Coyotes some times breed and reproduce. Red Wolves for instance have large traces of Coyote DNA.
I've always assumed that the different humanoids of DND were closely related like this and as such could reproduce.

alexi
2008-06-09, 10:18 AM
on fertility:

from wikipedea

While male ligers are sterile, female ligers can usually reproduce[citation needed]. Because only female ligers and tigons are fertile, a liger cannot reproduce with another liger or with a tigon. The sterility in males is caused by the fact that because of the unstable genes, male ligers never reach puberty. While they continue to age and grow they do not become sexually mature.[citation needed]

The fertility of hybrid big cat females is well-documented across a number of different hybrids. This is in accordance with Haldane's rule: in hybrids of animals whose gender is determined by sex chromosomes, if one gender is absent, rare or sterile, it is the heterogametic sex (the one with two different sex chromosomes e.g. X and Y).

According to Wild Cats of the World (1975) by C. A. W. Guggisberg, ligers and tigons were long thought to be sterile: In 1943, however, a fifteen-year-old hybrid between a lion and an 'Island' tiger was successfully mated with a lion at the Munich Hellabrunn Zoo. The female cub, although of delicate health, was raised to adulthood.[12]


Several female mules have produced offspring when mated with a purebred horse or donkey. Since 1527 there have been more than 60 documented cases of foals born to female mules around the world. It must be noted that there are no recorded cases of fertile mule stallions. Mules and hinnies have 63 chromosomes that are a mixture of one from each parent. The different structure and number usually prevents the chromosomes from pairing up properly and creating successful embryos. In most fertile mule mares, the mare passes on a complete set of her maternal genes (i.e., from her horse/pony mother) to the foal[citation needed]; a female mule bred to a horse will therefore produce a 100% horse foal[citation needed]. Some examples of recorded fertile mules include:

* Cornevin and Lesbre stated that in 1873 an Arab mule in Africa was bred to a stallion and produced female offspring.[citation needed] The parents and the offspring were sent to the Jardin d'Acclimatation in Paris. The mule produced a second female offspring sired by the same stallion and then two male offspring, one sired by a donkey and the other by a stallion. The female progeny were fertile, but their offspring were feeble and died at birth.
* Cossar Ewart recorded an Indian case in which a female mule gave birth to a male colt[citation needed].
* The best documented fertile mule mare was "Krause" who produced two male offspring when bred back to her own sire (biological father).
* In the 1920s, "Old Beck", a mare mule at Texas A&M, produced a mule daughter called "Kit"[citation needed]. When Old Beck was bred to a horse stallion she produced a horse son (i.e., the horse stallion sired horse foals). When bred to a donkey, she produced mule offspring.
* Likewise, a mare mule in Brazil has produced two 100% horse sons sired by a horse stallion[citation needed].
* In Morocco, a mare mule produced a male foal that was 75% donkey and 25% horse, i.e., she passed on a mixture of genes instead of passing on her maternal chromosomes in the expected way[citation needed].
* There is an unverified case of a mare mule that produced a mule daughter[citation needed]. The daughter was also fertile and produced a horse-like foal with some mule traits; this was dubbed a "hule". There are no reports as to whether the mule was fertile.
* A comparable case is that of a fertile hinny (donkey mother, horse sire - the reverse of a mule) in China[citation needed]. Her offspring, named "Dragon Foal", was sired by a donkey. Scientists expected a donkey foal if the mother had passed on her maternal chromosomes in the same way as a mule. However, Dragon Foal resembles a strange donkey with mule-like features. Her chromosomes and DNA tests confirm that she is a previously undocumented combination.

hamishspence
2008-06-09, 01:32 PM
And fertile species/species hybrids are even commoner among birds: see bird guidebooks.

Herring Gull/Lesser Black Back is an unusual one: while the two species are not fertile together there are intermediate species and subspecies between the two that are fertile: in fact, the two are opposite ends of a spectrum of birds with smoothly graduated intermediaries.

Species boundaries can be blurry, not always hard edged.