How would this work? (basically a red mage)

[HomocidalWizard]

So, I was reading through some old twinkin' out with red mage articles on http://nuklearpower.com/ (just in case on the off chance you DON'T know about it yet) and i thought, how would i make a red mage?

Sosa said mystic theurge is the best candidate (with his own twists of course, but mine isn't a RM from the comic) so i came up with this).

It's 3 lvls. Sorcerer,3 lvls. Cleric (of pelor) 4 lvls. Mystic Theurge and 10 levels fighter, So you cast spells as a 7th level cleric and sorcerer, have 13 feats (14 if human), base attack of 15/10/5 and a d8 hit die at level 20.

I know it seems like a LOT of multiclassing, but my DM might make it a base class, if there's any criticism try to make it as constructive as possible.

[Behold_the_Void]

It's really not that strong a build is the problem. Your casting is low, you have no ability to cast in armor making you really squishy, and your BAB doesn't make you a terribly good frontline combatant. While dabbling in everything works in theory, in this case you'll just end up being not very good at anything. Proper spell selection can help as far as buffs is concerned, but you're still not looking at having a good time of it.

At the very least I'd go Eldritch Knight or Knight Phantom or SOMETHING to get your Arcane casting up higher.

[Crow]

I think a Bard would make a good red mage.

[monty]

Isn't there already a Red Mage class somewhere?

[Draz74]

Isn't there already a Red Mage class somewhere?

Only homebrews.

I heartily recommend Chameleon as the way to make a Red Mage, though. Bard/Chameleon, Factotum/Chameleon, Binder/Chameleon, whatever.

[HomocidalWizard]

I think a Bard would make a good red mage.

I know that seems like a good choice (and in fact it was said in the articles) it doesn't come with that much offense which is what I was going for since our wizard barred evocation.

I was also wondering if a warmage would be better, that way I could use light armor with no penalty (i have a dexterity of 18 anyway so it's about as good as full plate unless flatfooted).

[HomocidalWizard]

Only homebrews.

I heartily recommend Chameleon as the way to make a Red Mage, though. Bard/Chameleon, Factotum/Chameleon, Binder/Chameleon, whatever.

I find that to be pretty funny because it reminds me of how red mage always swaps his stats, but thanks that sounds like an interesting class, I'll have to try and find the races of destiny book.

[quiet1mi]

Factorum
Q.E.D

[Silence]

I would make a new class.

Try spellcasting like a cleric, d1O HP, prof in martial, simple, medium, light, and sheilds.

Throw out a few random swankey class features, and you just made a great class in 15 minutes flat.

[Chronos]

it doesn't come with that much offense which is what I was going for since our wizard barred evocation. Evocation also doesn't come with that much offense. The only reason it looks like it does is that it has even less of everything else.

[Nebo_]

Factorum
Q.E.D

Factotum. With a T.



I was also wondering if a warmage would be better, that way I could use light armor with no penalty (i have a dexterity of 18 anyway so it's about as good as full plate unless flatfooted).

Unless you plan on blowing goats, don't touch the Warmage. See if you can get precociuos apprentice allowed so you don't gimp your casting getting into Mystic Theurge.

[Draz74]

I find that to be pretty funny because it reminds me of how red mage always swaps his stats, but thanks that sounds like an interesting class, I'll have to try and find the races of destiny book.

Or read all about the class here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b)

It does change its abilities around from day to day like Red Mage. But, in case you misunderstood me, the other classes I listed weren't classes it can "copy" exactly; rather, they were ideas for base classes you can take to get ready to go into Chameleon (which is a PrC).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If we recall our old FF games, we also see that Red Mage can also equip a large number of weapons and use them skillfully. So, how about this as a build?

Warmage/Ranbow Servant/Abjurant Champion

In brief, gets good BAB, clerical ability from Rainbow Servant (and because Red Mage is such a min-maxer, let's say he convinced the GM to go by text rather than by table to make it a full casting class), and combat ability.

Sound about right? Can spontaniously cast most boom-chuck spells, any cleric spell, and can mix it up in melee.

[Temp.]

At high levels 16+, Shneekey's build catures the Red Mage perfectly.

And don't listen to anything Sosa says in terms of optimization. Laugh with him about superhero geekery or whatever, but don't take his D&D advice. He consistantly cheats and he still somehow comes out with horrible builds. (Case in point: Sorcerer 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge X. I don't think he's using Earth Spell here. Even if he were, he's split his caster levels too much to be effective. The Fighter's cohort will be casting higher-level spells than he will.)

But for a lower-level build, how about straight Cleric?
It competently casts Defensive and Cure Spells.
It competently fights in melee combat.
It competently does some blasting. (A Cleric with the Fire Domain, and Energy Substitutions for Electricity and Cold would probably be a better fit to the concept. A Cleric with the Magic and Spell Domains would probably be more effective.)

[drengnikrafe]

If I remember my FF I correctly (and I do, since I played it less then a week ago) Red Mage's whole point is the fact that they can cast anything, although less effectively then Black or White Mage, and they decent at combat, although not as good as the Fighter. Thus, you should make a new class. Give it slowed spellcasting progression, simple and martial weapon proficiencies, REDUCED spell failure chance (Red Mages couldn't run around in Diamond Plate, it just wasn't allowed. The best way I can see this working is reduced SFC, like take away the first 20% or something), and parts of the spell lists. They should not get 9th level spells, and 8th level spells should probably be a 19th or 20th level thing. 3/4ths BAB progression. Also, give them a list of feats they can pick from, and slowly give them those feats (Red Mages can do almost anything, so they deserve bonus feats).

This is my opinion. Do with it what you will

[HydwenPrydain]

You probably don't have access to it as it's not WotC, but the Mage Blade from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed would make a very good Red Mage. D8 HD, can cast in medium armor eventually, 3/4ths BAB, up to 7th level spells from a versatile list (including heals, buffs, utility, and some damage, and you can change your spells known from day to day), and some special abilties that enhance your attacks and magic defenses. They're probably pretty weak compared to a standard D&D character, though, since AU spells are mostly weaker than in D&D. With a few more skill points per level or access to more spells, though...

[AslanCross]

I think a Bard would make a good red mage.

I agree. Instead of getting cleric buff spells, you get bardic music. You're not really a blaster, but you have a lot of utility spells. You also aren't that bad in a slugfest. I think it approximates the Red Mage well enough.

[Fizban]

Possibilities include:
Bard
Factotum
Bard or Factotum leading into Chameleon
Cleric with Fire and Cold domains/energy substitutions (that's clever)
Warmage into rainbow servant (also clever, I never thought of that for Red Mage)
Battle Sorcerer with Arcane Disciple or Domain Sorcerer (Arcane Disciple: feat from Complete Divine, allows you to learn spells from a domain, but you need high wisdom to cast them. Domain Sorcerer: variant from Complete Champion, allows you to cast each spell from the domain once per day, but you lose spells known; however you don't need wisdom); This will net you d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, 9th level sorcerer spells and up to 9th from one domain (depending on which hoops you jump through).
Homebrew:
A Bard with access to all cleric and wizard spells, d8 HD, and cast in medium armor, in exchange for losing bardic music. Go ahead and reduce skill points back down to 3.0's 4+int.

[Solo]

I know that seems like a good choice (and in fact it was said in the articles) it doesn't come with that much offense which is what I was going for since our wizard barred evocation.


Not enough offense? (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=55571)

[LoneGamer]

I made a Mystic Knight base class, as a heavily modified bard. I never had the opportunity to playtest it, however.

Things of note about the class:
* d8 HD
* 3/4 Base Attack
* Good REF and WILL
* Mystic Lore (bardic knowledge but focusing on magic rather than trivia)
* Armoured casting in medium armour and with light shields
* Rapid Metamagic as a bonus feat
* Doublecast
* Spells mostly about single-target buffs and debuffs, though healing and nuking spells are on the list.
* +1 spell/day of each level, relative to Bard.

If anyone's interested, I can find somewhere to throw it up online. It's a PDF.

[Innis Cabal]

The Savant Class, Dragon 140, or the Dragon Compendium page 45. Perfect. A little cleric casting, a little arcane casting, skill assists, trap finding, sneak attack, and a d8 HD