Something I've Noticed (3.5 Rules Query)

[KazilDarkeye]

If you have, say a Human Fighter in e.g Full Plate Armour. His base speed is 20 f.t., right.

No problems there.

And in the Rules for Charge, assuming clear terrain, line of sight and nothing in the way, he can move up to 40 f.t. to make one attack against a target.

Fine.

Now here's the thing. If said Fighter is in a party with e.g. a Wizard casting from 40 f.t. back, and the Fighter's in a desperate situation, that Fighter could Charge Attack the Wizard in order to bid a hasty retreat.

Is this allowed per rules? If PC's are allowed to attempt to attack their allies, can they use this in a condition in which they couldn't run?

[Innis Cabal]

there is nothing in the rules that says you cant attack anything on the battlefield. Why you'd want to is the real question, and are you ready to be attacked back?

[KazilDarkeye]

I have a BBEG, a Minotaur Fighter. He is in a dungeon room with 2 golems standing guard by 2 doors 40 f.t. away.

Since he is evil, he could charge attack a Golem in order to move 40 f.t. away as opposed to the normal 20. The Golems wouldn't show any retaliation, and could probably take the damage, but for the Fighter it would mean the difference between getting caught and escaping.

I'm just having a hard time describing this maneuver in not-crazy terms.

[Matthew]

Why don't you just use the withdraw action or run?

[KazilDarkeye]

That's sorta complicated. I designed a magic item for him, which boosts Str and Con, but lowers Dex and prevents him from running.

In retrospect, maybe that's a bad idea.

[Matthew]

Well... withdraw let's you move double your speed. It's not running anymore than charging is.



Withdraw
Withdrawing from melee combat is a full-round action. When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square. (Invisible enemies still get attacks of opportunity against you, and you can’t withdraw from combat if you’re blinded.) You can’t take a 5-foot step during the same round in which you withdraw.

If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal.

You may not withdraw using a form of movement for which you don’t have a listed speed.

Note that despite the name of this action, you don’t actually have to leave combat entirely.

Restricted Withdraw
If you are limited to taking only a standard action each round you can withdraw as a standard action. In this case, you may move up to your speed (rather than up to double your speed).

[monty]

Since you can attack objects, I'd assume you can charge objects as well. Find something in the direction you want to go, and charge it (I charge at that dust particle over there!).

[lord_khaine]

it would be easyer for him to just take a double move action instead.

[KazilDarkeye]

I'm not saying he will do this, all I'm saying is he CAN do it as per the rules. Still thanks for the Withdraw solution.

[Matthew]

No problem. Yep, sure he can; he can probably charge a wall, by the RAW. :smallbiggrin:

[shadow_archmagi]

No problem. Yep, sure he can; he can probably charge a wall, by the RAW. :smallbiggrin:

Now of course, we just have to find a practical use for being able to charge anything.

[Deepblue706]

No problem. Yep, sure he can; he can probably charge a wall, by the RAW. :smallbiggrin:

This thread just finally made me realize what my D&D games have been missing: The Juggernaut!

Let's see...Large Size, some Monk-like unarmed damage, Improved Sunder, Combat Brute...

[Bosaxon]

This thread just finally made me realize what my D&D games have been missing: The Juggernaut!

Let's see...Large Size, some Monk-like unarmed damage, Improved Sunder, Combat Brute...

No. The juggernaunt is the dungeoncrasher fighter variant.

If he bullrushes an enemy into a wall, 4d6+2*STRmod at level 2. At level six, 8d6+3*STRmod. And for this and some other bonuses, you just give up your second and sixth level bonus feats.

Really, the funnest fighter build.

[AslanCross]

it would be easyer for him to just take a double move action instead.

A withdraw action prevents a AOOs, though, so he'd be better off withdrawing.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'd like to note that encumberance from weight or armor does not prevent running or charging. However, things that prevent running also generally prevent charging (such as when you're entangled or fatigued, for example). This is because charging is essentially moving at the same speed as running, only you're not going as far so that you still have time to make an attack.

So I would look into this item you made up and decide whether or not it should really also prohibit charging. Withdrawing is probably the best option.

[Deepblue706]

No. The juggernaunt is the dungeoncrasher fighter variant.

If he bullrushes an enemy into a wall, 4d6+2*STRmod at level 2. At level six, 8d6+3*STRmod. And for this and some other bonuses, you just give up your second and sixth level bonus feats.

Really, the funnest fighter build.

Maybe, as a joke. I can't that that variant seriously in the slightest bit.

[de-trick]

how to explain is

" the minotaur sees the end is near, he facts a swing and turns, before you can blink he charges though the door, with the door stuck on his horns. Then the statues next to the door moves in front of the door blocking it."

[Tsotha-lanti]

wth?

You don't need to run; running is triple speed (in this case). Just double move. It takes the same action (full-round = 2 move actions), and covers the exact same ground. Charge is decidedly inferior, since it's limited by terrain, has to be in a straight line, and inflicts an AC penalty; unless you get some freaky speed bonuses when charging (which you apparently don't, in your example), there's absolutely no reason to charge. Withdraw is even better, since you don't provoke AoOs when moving out of the square you start in (but only that; if you withdraw past other opponents, you will provoke AoOs).

I'm also not sure why the armor is relevant; this would work out just the same with no armor, or with any of various speeds.

Learn the rules, mate.

[Shifty]

No. The juggernaunt is the dungeoncrasher fighter variant.
...
Really, the funnest fighter build.

Where might one find this beast? I want to make a Reaping Mauler/Dungeoncrasher multiclass. I have a vision of a dwarf pinning a wizard against the wall and twisting his arms off.

Edit: With armor spikes. Lots of them. Think about wrestling with a steel porcupine.

[Chronicled]

Where might one find this beast? I want to make a Reaping Mauler/Dungeoncrasher multiclass. I have a vision of a dwarf pinning a wizard against the wall and twisting his arms off.

Edit: With armor spikes. Lots of them. Think about wrestling with a steel porcupine.

It's in Dungeonscape. Which also has the superb Factotum base class.

[brian c]

No problem. Yep, sure he can; he can probably charge a wall, by the RAW. :smallbiggrin:

And get a +2 to hit! Because, you know, walls have a pretty high AC

[KazilDarkeye]

wth?

<snipped>

Learn the rules, mate.

Well that's a bit harsh. All I'm saying in this thread is that he COULD do this as per rules (and he can). Withdrawing completely slipped my mind, but that's doesn't mean I don't know the rules.

[Roderick_BR]

Wait, you are charging the wizard, or [i]moving away[i] from him? I guess you can move the 40ft even without having to attack something.