Will there be a 4th Edition SRD?

[Conners]

I don't really know much about why the SRD was made for 3.5ED, but I'm wondering if 4thED will eventually gain one for ease of use.

(3.5ED SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm)

[Zeful]

If it does it won't be legal, as the 4th ed SRD is just a reference for 3rd party publishers not a way to play for free.

[Tyrmatt]

From my understanding, WotC are in the process of setting one up so it can be licenced out to other groups who want to make systems and adventure packs. I've heard October as a potential release time, but it may be out before then or even have launched already to coincide.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm wondering if 4thED will eventually gain one for ease of use.

According to the last rumors I've heard, no, it won't (allegedly because Hasbro thinks it'll harm sales). Then again, I'd like to hear this confirmed or denied from an actual source.

[Azerian Kelimon]

According to the last official press release on the subject, the SRD will come out next year, the same day the books were released.

[Duke of URL]

The SRD was due out on Friday, the 6th. Latest news says "early this week".
(http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20080606a)
GSL-licensed products cannot be published until October 1, this year.

By all accounts, the SRD will not be like the 3rd edition versions, but rather just an index of content 3rd-party developers can reference.

[Conners]

The SRD was due out on Friday, the 6th. Latest news says "early this week".
(http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20080606a)
GSL-licensed products cannot be published until October 1, this year.

By all accounts, the SRD will not be like the 3rd edition versions, but rather just an index of content 3rd-party developers can reference. I'm rather confused... So, the SRD was due on the sixth of this month (June), but won't come out for about four months?

[RTGoodman]

I'm rather confused... So, the SRD was due on the sixth of this month (June), but won't come out for about four months?

Not quite. The SRD was due out on 6 June, the same day as the books, but because of some delay they pushed it back to sometime early this week.

Third-party publishers who use material from the SRD (who are the real reason there IS an SRD) can access it whenever others can, but non-WotC material utilizing information and mechanics and such in the 4E SRD can't be published until October.

Or, at least, I think that's how it's supposed to work.

[Conners]

Not quite. The SRD was due out on 6 June, the same day as the books, but because of some delay they pushed it back to sometime early this week.

Third-party publishers who use material from the SRD (who are the real reason there IS an SRD) can access it whenever others can, but non-WotC material utilizing information and mechanics and such in the 4E SRD can't be published until October.

Or, at least, I think that's how it's supposed to work. Ah, I see now (what's a "GSL-Licence" then...?). So it will be coming out soon? Great! I hate searching through rulebooks...

Thanks for that.

[RTGoodman]

Ah, I see now (what's a "GSL-Licence" then...?). So it will be coming out soon? Great! I hate searching through rulebooks...

Thanks for that.

The GSL is the Game System License. From what I can tell, it's like the OGL (Open Gaming License) which is basically just the legal mumbo-jumbo that lets third-party publishers use the stuff from the SRD, as long as they put the GSL information in their work.

According to the link Duke of URL posted, the GSL will be accompanied by the SRD itself, a confirmation card that you have to fill out and send to WotC by mail if you plan on publishing stuff as a third-party company, the compatibility logo (which will probably need to be displayed on a products, just like the old d20 one), and the FAQ.

Also, and this is on interest to homebrewers that aren't official game publishers, the link says that WotC is "also working on a new fan site policy, to be made public at a later date." Hopefully they don't do something stupid and make the policy, 'You can't homebrew' or something like that.

[TempusCCK]

Except WotC is greedy to a fault and 4e it the unholy culmination of all the vileness, so I wouldn't be surprised if we never see an SRD like the one we have now. Which is pretty terrible, because that'd be the only way alot of people would try out the system before buying it.

[Conners]

Except WotC is greedy to a fault and 4e it the unholy culmination of all the vileness, so I wouldn't be surprised if we never see an SRD like the one we have now. Which is pretty terrible, because that'd be the only way alot of people would try out the system before buying it. Well, from what I've heard, 4thED seems to be a lot more fun. You should listen to the Penny-Arcade podcast of them playing 4thED, you can find it at the wizards of the coast website.

One of the main things I'm looking forward to: Is monsters are much stronger... Heck, three adventurers were having trouble with two goblins, just because they weren't rolling too well. With this, I can have more realistic 1st level adventures, where even four goblins against six adventurers isn't a straight-forward slaughter :smallamused:.
Also, throw in a couple of minions indistinguishable from the rest, secretly. This way you can put in the real feel of battle, where it takes a hard struggle to beat this goblin, but a lucky strike kills the one who was supposedly just as good.

[ShadowSiege]

Except WotC is greedy to a fault and 4e it the unholy culmination of all the vileness, so I wouldn't be surprised if we never see an SRD like the one we have now. Which is pretty terrible, because that'd be the only way alot of people would try out the system before buying it.

Wow. Do you actually think that Wizards of the Coast is greedy because they want fair compensation for their work and access to their intellectual property? Seriously?

I would say that the 3rd Edition SRD did harm sales (although perhaps only by a very small margin) because I've read of people all using the SRD except for one guy that actually bought the books. Wizards loses out on 4+ PHB sales alone in a typical group (1 DM, 4 players) if this is the case.

[Talic]

The SRD is a tool designed to encourage developers to make things for D&D. It's designed to get more product on the shelf, and more popularity in the product.

Now, wizards has a developed fan base, and the new system is designed to be simple and easy to pick up. It is likely that the legal protections for the new SRD will be different than the old, as the 3rd ed OGL has to be forsaken to get access to the new 4th ed stuff early. So likely, legal protections have changed, in a more restrictive sense.

Still, it's likely there will be a rules source, as well as an official rulings source. These make the game more easily understood, and are a positive mark for the game. In short, the SRD is a selling point. It may change, but it won't go away.

[turkishproverb]

Wow. Do you actually think that Wizards of the Coast is greedy because they want fair compensation for their work and access to their intellectual property? Seriously?

I would say that the 3rd Edition SRD did harm sales (although perhaps only by a very small margin) because I've read of people all using the SRD except for one guy that actually bought the books. Wizards loses out on 4+ PHB sales alone in a typical group (1 DM, 4 players) if this is the case.

Ah, dude. U.S. law says you can't copyright/own rules, just how they are expressed. That was one of the origional justifications for the OGL (to allow people things so there wouldn't be costly legal battles to decide if what was done was legit)

Furthermore Wizards also origionally cited the collapse of the old RPG market as being partly due to all hte "incompatable games" that existed, and claimed this was to be a barrier.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Wow. Do you actually think that Wizards of the Coast is greedy because they want fair compensation for their work and access to their intellectual property? Seriously?

It's pretty hilarious, considering WotC was the first company to publish a SRD, and is still - to my knowledge - one of two companies to do so (the other being Mongoose, who published a RuneQuest SRD; which was a great idea, since RuneQuest sells with Glorantha sourcebooks anyway).

[Turcano]

Wow. Do you actually think that Wizards of the Coast is greedy because they want fair compensation for their work and access to their intellectual property? Seriously?

I would say that the 3rd Edition SRD did harm sales (although perhaps only by a very small margin) because I've read of people all using the SRD except for one guy that actually bought the books. Wizards loses out on 4+ PHB sales alone in a typical group (1 DM, 4 players) if this is the case.

It made a customer out of me.

[turkishproverb]

It's pretty hilarious, considering WotC was the first company to publish a SRD, and is still - to my knowledge - one of two companies to do so (the other being Mongoose, who published a RuneQuest SRD; which was a great idea, since RuneQuest sells with Glorantha sourcebooks anyway).

guardians of order put out srd's for its d20 products (like Mecha d20)

[Uthug]

From what I've read about the 4E SRD it seems unlikely that it will be possible to play 4E just using it alone. It seems to be just a reference for 3rd party publishers so that they know what materials from 4E they are allowed to use in their work.

[AKA_Bait]

Also, and this is on interest to homebrewers that aren't official game publishers, the link says that WotC is "also working on a new fan site policy, to be made public at a later date." Hopefully they don't do something stupid and make the policy, 'You can't homebrew' or something like that.

What I expect them to do is "homebrew all you like and if we like ittoo , we will publish it! No compensation will be given to the creators of material posted on the fan site and later published by WotC."

[Person_Man]

You know, WotC really shot themselves in the foot on this issue. Fully searchable PDF copies of 4th ed were available a week before the book came out (perhaps sooner - my internet skills are severely lacking). They've made a huge deal about new licenses and protected content and whatnot. This had the effect of pissing off a lot of publishers and horrible gossip mongering about the rules, because no one had an "official" RAW source they could point to. And it deterred precisely 0 people from stealing a free copy of the rules.

Terrible marketing. They could have just set up a 4th ed SRD, said "here are the basic rules. Please copy edit them for us and suggest changes." Then in one months they could have re-balanced things, sent the mistake free books to the printer, and released them enclosed in a box set with power cards, miniatures, maps, and dice for $100, and they would sell like pancakes. A month later they could release the individual books for non-hard core fans who didn't want to buy the box set, but wanted a physical copy of the rules.

[/rant]

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Wow. Do you actually think that Wizards of the Coast is greedy because they want fair compensation for their work and access to their intellectual property? Seriously?

I would say that the 3rd Edition SRD did harm sales (although perhaps only by a very small margin) because I've read of people all using the SRD except for one guy that actually bought the books. Wizards loses out on 4+ PHB sales alone in a typical group (1 DM, 4 players) if this is the case.

Actually, no. It didn't loose them 4+ sales, it GAINED them one sale, for the one individual to purchase the books for the rules that were not in the SRD, otherwise they'd have likely never started gaming it in the process. And really, it just saved them all a lot of time with a scanner/copier, since they'd have likely just copied the relevant parts for their characters anyways from the one copy they would have purchased, if they bothered with the system in the first place.

The SRD was a masterful stroke of advertisement. It gave people a taste of the system, enough to get them interested enough to purchase.

Not having a 4th Ed SRD will loose them a lot of sales. For example, I'm not going to go out and purchase any 4e materials until I get a chance to look at an *official* layout of how the new rules work. Not necessarily the details, just how the system works. If it's a system I'm willing to run with, I'll likely get a book. If I don't like the system, I won't be buying the book.

Either way, not publishing a 4e SRD will make WOTC look very ugly, and will likely convince me that I never want to do business with them EVER again. That includes any other sources of revenue they might have gotten from me (such as my friend who keeps trying to get me to go back to M:TG).

SRD, in the shape and form of the 3.5 SRD currently out, is a good thing. It lets people get a feel for how the system works, and enables them to write 3rd party materials for it, which require the basic books to function completely. It's advertisement, folks. And good publicity. Start looking like Bill Gates, and I'll boycot them just like I do Microsoft (LINUX FTW!).

[GoC]

Well if there's no SRD looks like I'll have to go to the pirate atoll and get all the fluff in addition to the mechanics I got with the 3.5e SRD.
Admittedly I have an excuse for my behavior. Namely: unavailability.
WotC needs to expand their market to Latin American countries!
How am I expected to buy their products legally if I can't find them anywhere?

[AslanCross]

Except WotC is greedy to a fault and 4e it the unholy culmination of all the vileness, so I wouldn't be surprised if we never see an SRD like the one we have now. Which is pretty terrible, because that'd be the only way alot of people would try out the system before buying it.

I still do not understand this "new product = greed" mentality. How else are they supposed to earn money? They're a gaming corporation based in a capitalist country. It's a business, not charity.

As for the SRD and pirated copies, I have to admit that I started there. I was genuinely interested in the game and didn't think there were rulebooks available locally. When I found them here (and of course set aside some dispensable income), I went ahead and bought what I could afford. The SRD is very helpful, and many of my students became interested in the game due to the easily-accessible rules.