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AKA_Bait
2008-06-09, 04:25 PM
Off the bat, let me admit that I have limited experience with PbP games. The little experience I do have has yielded the following conclusion: Combat takes a lot longer PbP.

Obviously, that's because in many games a round can take 1-2 days depending upon the rate of posting. For 3.x this wasn't really a problem. For 4e, I wonder that it might be. The more dynamic nature of combat in 4e, with Warlords granting actions out of iniative order and everyone being more mobile, seems as though it might actually dramatically increase the burden of running a PbP combat.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Indon
2008-06-09, 04:48 PM
I imagine it may be possible for people to more put their characters on autopilot. "I use X power if this happens, if it doesn't I use Y. If something else comes up, then wait for me to post."

Zrinfael
2008-06-09, 05:04 PM
It is a legitimate concern, though I'm in a pbp 4e game atm and we're on day 5 for 3 rounds of combat. Not terrific, but not too much worse than the average. Though it is an issue it certainly isn't insurmountable, we just need to adjust a little to compensate.

Off the top of my head, we could do what Indon suggests and declare the actions we'd like to take given extra rounds in advance. More useful, but it'd require some degree of trust, we could let the player of the character who gives us extra actions declare what we do with those actions. Finally, we could tweak the rules a little bit and just give everyone the extra action on the next pass of their normal turn. That takes some of the depth out of the tactical aspect of granting extra actions, but it does seem to be the simplest way to streamline.

The Necroswanso
2008-06-09, 05:18 PM
I've had the same thoughts. And from what I can tell, yes, it overcomplicates combat in a PBP.
However, I don't think 4ed was designed with pbp in mind. :smalltongue:

sonofzeal
2008-06-09, 06:57 PM
I'm not a PbP person, but I do a lot of D&D over instant chat programs like MSN and IRC, and it's definitelly going to screw with us there, what with how much more important positioning is now (from what I've heard). I really want to give 4e a try, but my online groups are likely going to stick with 3.x if that's the case.

The Necroswanso
2008-06-09, 07:16 PM
Well they have that crazy online thingy if you're able to pay.

Zrinfael
2008-06-09, 07:26 PM
Give the folks over at openrpg a few weeks and they'll have something serviceable floating around for a free (and far more customizable) option. I would recommend against trying 4e without some sort of visual map, whether you share a picture of the map you're using and have everyone follow along, or use a built in drawing/sharing thing. Without the visual you're playing chess while blindfolded.

Vikingkingq
2008-06-09, 09:05 PM
Yeah, I would agree that the main problem seems to be the need for some kind of online battlemap.

Randel
2008-06-09, 09:28 PM
play 4th edition pbp using ASCII!


you open the door
the orc spots you
the goblin spots you...

######+######
#$...ggg....#
#...........#
#...g.......#
#..........@#
#...o......@@
#.o.........#
#...........#
#############

Chronicled
2008-06-09, 10:52 PM
Without the visual you're playing chess while blindfolded.

:smallconfused: You say that like there's something wrong with it.

Okay, okay. It took me a little while to be able to do more than openings. It really doesn't take that much practice, though.

Jack Mann
2008-06-09, 11:52 PM
Meh. 3rd was supposed to be impossible to play without minis either, and my group managed just fine. I don't see 4e being any harder in that regard.

Duke of URL
2008-06-10, 07:20 AM
play 4th edition pbp using ASCII!


you open the door
the orc spots you
the goblin spots you...

######+######
#$...ggg....#
#...........#
#...g.......#
#..........@#
#...o......@@
#.o.........#
#...........#
#############

You win the thread. Oh, how I loved to play moria, nethack, and the like...

sonofzeal
2008-06-10, 08:35 AM
You win the thread. Oh, how I loved to play moria, nethack, and the like...
Bah, ADOM pwned them all. :smallwink:

That still doesn't help me on IRC where you can't enter multiple lines of text at once, and depends on having a fixed width font in MSN, of which I believe there's only one (Fixedsys). Still, it would definitelly help for PbP game.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-10, 08:44 AM
I've found that PbP is very difficult with 4e... there is too much going on in the battlefield to make it worthwhile.

It moves slightly faster on a chat program with a map program... but still not perfect.

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-06-10, 11:27 AM
I imagine it may be possible for people to more put their characters on autopilot. "I use X power if this happens, if it doesn't I use Y. If something else comes up, then wait for me to post."
That's how I've always had to handle immediate actions and, to a lesser extent, AoOs.

Sounds like there may have to be a whole ton of other "if->then->else" clauses, though, if there are a lot more options in that way.

InaVegt
2008-06-10, 11:35 AM
Bah, ADOM pwned them all. :smallwink:

That still doesn't help me on IRC where you can't enter multiple lines of text at once, and depends on having a fixed width font in MSN, of which I believe there's only one (Fixedsys). Still, it would definitelly help for PbP game.

My IRC client allows me to type multiple lines of text at once, and they get fired very quickly after another.

Just use an externel text editor (like notepad) to keep up with the map.

For example, the map for my first combat was:


0 |A....~~......|
1 |.....~~......|
2-----.............|
3..........~~......|
4..ES...TH----.....----
5~~~~~~.~~| |~~.~~~~~~
6~~~~~~.~~| |~~.~~~~~~
7.........----.........
8..........~~....**....
9------....~~....**....
0 |................
1 |....~~.---------
2 |....~~.|
3 |....~~.|
4 |....~~.|
0123456789012356789012

Myatar_Panwar
2008-06-10, 11:36 AM
What about that new thing WotC introduced? On D&D insider they were showing a virtual game table. I know that there are other site's with RPG implements such as that one, thats just the only one I know of specifically. Has it been released? Anyone try it? Do you have to pay for it?

I guess the problem with those types of things though, is getting the whole group online at once to play a session. Looks like it could be pretty convenient though, maybe your group always plays one hour at the same time every night or something.

elliott20
2008-06-10, 02:57 PM
In games that is this details intensive, PbP is going to be hard no matter what. I once played in a game where 3 rounds took the better part of a week to resolve. And the game promptly died when one of the players ended up getting his internet shut off.

PbP games are by nature very hard to sustain due to it's reliance on prompt player replies.

cross that with the fact that a lot of actions in D&D require a lot of rolling back and forth it makes it even more difficult at times.

I'd say you'd do better with scheduling some online game time and using OpenRPG instead.