Haley's secret

[Jeivar]

I'm sure there have been several threads dedicated to this, but I hope no one minds me starting another one. I think the title speaks for itself: What do you think Haley's biggest secret is? The one not even V knows about? Here's my theory.

Back when she was tossing various secrets at Elan in hopes of gaining her voice back, the last one she tried before being interrupted was "Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call-". Also, there is the whole issue with Sabine being her evil opposite. I don't really see how a shapeshifting demon skilled at seduction is the opposite of a Rogue, so I think that's a strong sign that Haley actually isn't exactly human, but a Planetouched of some sort. An Aasimar would make the whole 'opposite' thing stronger, but I guess her being a Tiefling would make more sense, given that apparently everyone who finds out leaves her. I can't imagine having a freaking angel in your family tree would have that effect. :)

Granted, my theory ignores the fact that we haven't seen her use Daylight or Darkness, when there have been plenty of situations where those would have been useful, but maybe she's just really, really set on keeping her big secret . . .

[Beholder1995]

Boy, I was wondering when the next 'Haley's not human' thread would pop up. :smallwink: I'm not sure, but I understand that there have been multiple discussions on this very subject- indeed, these exact theories. Well, Aasimar at least... not so sure about Tiefling. Actually, Haley being a Tiefling would make sense.... you do have a good point about everyone who found out left her. But wouldn't she have horns? Or red skin? Or wings? Or red eyes? Or... well, any kind of fiendish appearance?

[VForVaarsuvius]

I'm sure there have been several threads dedicated to this, but I hope no one minds me starting another one. I think the title speaks for itself: What do you think Haley's biggest secret is? The one not even V knows about? Here's my theory.

Back when she was tossing various secrets at Elan in hopes of gaining her voice back, the last one she tried before being interrupted was "Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call-". Also, there is the whole issue with Sabine being her evil opposite. I don't really see how a shapeshifting demon skilled at seduction is the opposite of a Rogue, so I think that's a strong sign that Haley actually isn't exactly human, but a Planetouched of some sort. An Aasimar would make the whole 'opposite' thing stronger, but I guess her being a Tiefling would make more sense, given that apparently everyone who finds out leaves her. I can't imagine having a freaking angel in your family tree would have that effect. :)

Granted, my theory ignores the fact that we haven't seen her use Daylight or Darkness, when there have been plenty of situations where those would have been useful, but maybe she's just really, really set on keeping her big secret . . .

... I always thought she was gonna say 'I'm not exactly straight.' since she had just talked about kissing a girl more then once...

[Logalmier]

Boy, I was wondering when the next 'Haley's not human' thread would pop up. :smallwink: I'm not sure, but I understand that there have been multiple discussions on this very subject- indeed, these exact theories. Well, Aasimar at least... not so sure about Tiefling. Actually, Haley being a Tiefling would make sense.... you do have a good point about everyone who found out left her. But wouldn't she have horns? Or red skin? Or wings? Or red eyes? Or... well, any kind of fiendish appearance?

Tieflings don't have to have that apperance, in fact in the MM it actually says that most tieflings DON'T have those characteristics

[T-O-E]

Boy, I was wondering when the next 'Haley's not human' thread would pop up. :smallwink: I'm not sure, but I understand that there have been multiple discussions on this very subject- indeed, these exact theories. Well, Aasimar at least... not so sure about Tiefling. Actually, Haley being a Tiefling would make sense.... you do have a good point about everyone who found out left her. But wouldn't she have horns? Or red skin? Or wings? Or red eyes? Or... well, any kind of fiendish appearance?

Maybe her blood-line's so far dilluted that her fiendish ancestors traits don't manifest?

[Beholder1995]

Tieflings don't have to have that apperance, in fact in the MM it actually says that most tieflings DON'T have those characteristics

Oh. I have been humbled. But whoever heard of a Chaotic Good Tiefling with orange-red hair?

EDIT::: How many generations does it take before you're a Planetouched? One generation would be half-fiend. Two generations would be.... quarter-fiend. And three generations? Eighth-fiend? How many generations does it take before you're just a Tiefling?

[Logalmier]

Oh. I have been humbled. But whoever heard of a Chaotic Good Tiefling with orange-red hair?

...that is actually the biggest flaw in my logic.:smallfrown:

[Jeivar]

Oh. I have been humbled. But whoever heard of a Chaotic Good Tiefling with orange-red hair?

Well, they aren't automatically evil, any more than orcs or drow. They just TEND to fall in that direction. Only undead and full-blooded demons and such are ALWAYS evil.

[Logalmier]

Well, they aren't automatically evil, any more than orcs or drow. They just TEND to fall in that direction. Only undead and full-blooded demons and such are ALWAYS evil.

Thats true, I thought that it was the fact that she was a readhead more than that she's good, 'cause there usually have black hair...I think, oh I don't know!

[Ned the undead]

Well, they aren't automatically evil, any more than orcs or drow. They just TEND to fall in that direction. Only undead and full-blooded demons and such are ALWAYS evil.

Libris Mortis provides examples of non-evil undead such as Mummies and Vampires. It actually says that of the different types of undead Mummies actually have the highest concentration of good aligned members.
And then there are Arch-liches, Scrierlichs, and the occasional atoning Ghost..

[Chronos]

To get the rest of the evidence (vague, weak, and circumstantial though it may be) out of the way:

1: She resembles the celestial guarding Xykon's tower (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0193.html), and who is therefore speculated to possibly be her mother or grandmother.

2: She uses a longbow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0454.html), which is an awfully peculiar weapon for a rogue to waste a feat on (they get shortbows for free, which are almost as good when most of your damage comes from Sneak Attack anyway). But outsiders get proficiency in all martial weapons for free, so if she were an outsider, it would make sense for her to use it.

3: We've never seen any indication of her mother, only her father, so her mother could be anyone. And it's possible that the Giant has deliberately avoided any references to her mother to avoid giving anything away.

[Logalmier]

To get the rest of the evidence (vague, weak, and circumstantial though it may be) out of the way:

1: She resembles the celestial guarding Xykon's tower (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0193.html), and who is therefore speculated to possibly be her mother or grandmother.

2: She uses a longbow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0454.html), which is an awfully peculiar weapon for a rogue to waste a feat on (they get shortbows for free, which are almost as good when most of your damage comes from Sneak Attack anyway). But outsiders get proficiency in all martial weapons for free, so if she were an outsider, it would make sense for her to use it.

3: We've never seen any indication of her mother, only her father, so her mother could be anyone. And it's possible that the Giant has deliberately avoided any references to her mother to avoid giving anything away.

I agree with everything except the mother father part, if she was a tiefling then her mother wouldn't be a fiend, neither would her father, being a tiefling comes from having a fiendish ancestor, if she had a fiendish parent then she would be a half fiend.

[Innis Cabal]

Or she's a princess.

[Trizap]

nah, THAT is way too cliche, even for Rich.

[The Extinguisher]

"Elan, I'm not exactly what you would call a good dancer"

[Innis Cabal]

nah, THAT is way too cliche, even for Rich.

I think thats the point.

[MSK]

Granted, my theory ignores the fact that we haven't seen her use Daylight or Darkness, when there have been plenty of situations where those would have been useful, but maybe she's just really, really set on keeping her big secret . . ."Later that evening..." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0155.html)
Yeah, it's not quite the same, but still.

[Timberboar]

"I'm not exactly what you might call good.

[KillianHawkeye]

She could be distantly related to a Succubus or Erinyes or some other of the more human-looking fiends. They don't all have red skin and horns and wings and breath fire.

[Tingel]

To get the rest of the evidence (vague, weak, and circumstantial though it may be) out of the way:

1: She resembles the celestial guarding Xykon's tower (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0193.html), and who is therefore speculated to possibly be her mother or grandmother.


If the identical haircuts of Haley and the guardian angel imply that they're related, then Pepe is Elan's uncle.

Pepe from strips #226 & #227, that is.

[Solo]

Haley is Iron Man

[kabbor]

Just to throw in that she said that she was "good(ish)" when Nale was suggestion-ing Elan.

Indicating that she is more complex than just CG. This theory has possibilities.

Hmm. It would add flavour to why she found "It is highly unlikely that a proper young lady such as yourself would be capable of enough deception to cause this level of stress" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0303.html) to be so amusing.

[Chronos]

I agree with everything except the mother father part, if she was a tiefling then her mother wouldn't be a fiend, neither would her father, being a tiefling comes from having a fiendish ancestor, if she had a fiendish parent then she would be a half fiend.I never said that she had a fiendish parent. And even if the tower guard is her mother, it's still possible that she (the mother) is herself only half-celestial (they have wings).


If the identical haircuts of Haley and the guardian angel imply that they're related, then Pepe is Elan's uncle.Like I said, the evidence is vague, weak, and circumstantial.

[TroyXavier]

I always figured she was saying she's wasn't what you'd exactly call honest, but that's me.

[LordOfNarf]

I want to know what measuring system makes Haley's bow a longbow. The PH says that a longbow is five to six feet long, which her bow is not. Haley uses a shortbow and in that particular comic took an unbeliviable improbable shot because it was dramatic and funny. Also remember, max range on a shortbow is 600 ft, which is very plausibly how far that shot was

[Kato]

Yey, another 'Haley's an outsider' thread ^^

Okay, I might take the evil opposite arguments... but... argh, I don't think Rich would use such a clichee about the 'secret origin' stuff... Anyway, the secret is - I think - simply the thing about her latent bisexuality... Do I even have to TALK about the 'the guardian is her mother' thing? (Which child looks exactly like her mother????)

[Ceaon]

I want to know what measuring system makes Haley's bow a longbow. The PH says that a longbow is five to six feet long, which her bow is not. Haley uses a shortbow and in that particular comic took an unbeliviable improbable shot because it was dramatic and funny. Also remember, max range on a shortbow is 600 ft, which is very plausibly how far that shot was

Haley specifically states her bow is a longbow.
Second panel of the second page (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0454.html).

[Selene]

It doesn't make any sense for her "big" secret to be her bisexuality. She'd just said that she'd "kissed a girl once. OK, OK, more than once." Plus bisexuality is hardly something she'd hide from V.

[Eric]

She's a post-op.

So can we stop now?

[Red XIV]

Just to throw in that she said that she was "good(ish)" when Nale was suggestion-ing Elan.

Indicating that she is more complex than just CG. This theory has possibilities.

Hmm. It would add flavour to why she found "It is highly unlikely that a proper young lady such as yourself would be capable of enough deception to cause this level of stress" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0303.html) to be so amusing.
She found it so funny because she's a rogue and a thief, not in any way a "proper young lady".

[AceOfFools]

I always assumed that since DnD takes place in a pseudo-medieval European setting sitting across from a naive man, she was going to say "not exactly a virgin."