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Xyk
2008-06-09, 10:20 PM
Your sorcerer spells and favored soul spells are combined into one list.

Prerequisites:
Sorcerer level 1, Favored Soul level 1

Benefit:
Your favored soul spell list and your sorcerer spell list are combined into one super-list. Your spells per day from each class are added together and cast from this super-list.



Whaddya think, guys? overpowered, underpowered?

JoshuaZ
2008-06-09, 11:16 PM
Your sorcerer spells and favored soul spells are combined into one list.

Prerequisites:
Sorcerer level 1, Favored Soul level 1

Benefit:
Your favored soul spell list and your sorcerer spell list are combined into one super-list. Your spells per day from each class are added together and cast from this super-list.



Whaddya think, guys? overpowered, underpowered?

It isn't well-defined. I see a multitide of possible meanings: do you mean you can use your spell slots from either class to cast spells for one or do you just mean that you can use either spell list when choosing new spells known? Or do you mean both?

Xyk
2008-06-10, 11:39 AM
Here's an example. Jack is playing a 8th level sorcerer but wants to get some divine casting. He takes a level of favored soul and takes spell slicing. Now he has 9 first level spells per day and those can be cast off of either of his spells known. Without the feat he would have 3 spells per day for his divine spells and 6 for his first level arcane spells.

You still have to choose spells from the appropriate class when you level up.

Norr
2008-06-10, 12:00 PM
So the feat would look something like this:

Spell Splicing
Your divine blessing has mingled with your arcane blood.

Prerequisites:
Able to spontaneously cast 1-st level arcane spells, able to spontaneously cast 1-st level divine spells (altered as per Kd7sov's suggestion)

Benefit:
You no longer distinguish between Favored Soul spell slots and Sorcerer spell slots. You instead gain a spell slot pool for every spell level containg a number of spell slots equal to the number of spell slots gained from Favored Soul levels and the number of spell slots gained from Sorcerer levels. You may use these spell slots to spontaneously cast spells from both your Favored soul spells known and your Sorcerer spells known.
Example: a 4th level sorcerer/2nd level Favored Soul would have 12 0-level slots, 10 1st-level slots and 3 2nd-level slots. He can use these slots to cast any spell he knows of the appropriate level.

Spells known are selected as normal upon advancement in the relevant class.
Example: A Sorcerer 1/Favored Soul 1 that gains an additional level of Sorcerer may select one additional cantrip rom the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list.

Also, just because I feel like putting it into text:
The caster levels of your arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class stack for purposes of spell effects based on caster level. If you have more than one spontaneous arcane spellcasting class or spontaneous divine spellcasting class, you must choose which one(s) to apply this bonus to when selecting this feat. Once the choice has been made, it cannot be changed.
Example: A Favored Soul 3/Sorcerer 1 will have a caster level of 4 when determining level-dependent variables like damage, range and duration. A magic missile cast by this character would produce two missiles rather than one.

Note that this text might be interpreted by ryles lawyers as allowing you to go sorcerer 1/Dread necro 1/Favored soul 1 and apply the stacking-caster-level-bonus to the sorc and dreadie. I'll just say this right now, it's not in the spirit of this feat and is not allowed.

Xyk
2008-06-11, 12:44 AM
Thank you for the wording, it looks great and the multi-classing for spell level puts it about on par with the other multi-classing feats.

Kd7sov
2008-06-11, 10:55 AM
Were I you, I would change the prerequisites to "Able to spontaneously cast first-level arcane and divine spells", based largely on the fact that, if I recall correctly, the DMG advises against requiring levels of specific classes for prestige classes. I realize that this is a feat, but I also seem to recall the Paladin and Monk multiclassing feats in Complete Adventurer going by class features rather than levels.

RTGoodman
2008-06-11, 02:40 PM
As Norr has it written, this seems WAY too powerful. I mean, I could take 19 levels of Sorcerer and one level of Favored Soul and being able to cast 9th level Divine spells. That's not even close to balanced.

Add in something that says, "You can only use spell slots for each class of up to the highest level spell slot you would normally be able to for that class. A Sorcerer 14/Favored Soul 6, for instance, could only use slots up to 3rd level for his Favored Soul spells, since a normal 6th level Favored Soul could only cast up to 3rd level spells."

That way, you'll still have a LOT of slots, but you'd not automatically gain the ability to use high level arcane AND divine spells by taking one feat.

Norr
2008-06-12, 06:26 AM
As Norr has it written, this seems WAY too powerful. I mean, I could take 19 levels of Sorcerer and one level of Favored Soul and being able to cast 9th level Divine spells. That's not even close to balanced.

Add in something that says, "You can only use spell slots for each class of up to the highest level spell slot you would normally be able to for that class. A Sorcerer 14/Favored Soul 6, for instance, could only use slots up to 3rd level for his Favored Soul spells, since a normal 6th level Favored Soul could only cast up to 3rd level spells."

That way, you'll still have a LOT of slots, but you'd not automatically gain the ability to use high level arcane AND divine spells by taking one feat.

Actually, you are wrong in that regard. a 19th level sorcerer/1st level Favored Soul would have the combined spell slots for the two classes, but only the divine spells the FS learned due to its 1st level. Remember, favored souls learn spells like a sorcerer, not like a cleric. They do not automatically know every spell on their list.
If the additional feature of caster level was included, it would mean the favored soul 1/sorcerer19 would have caster level 20 for its sorcerer spells and caster level 20 for its three 1st-level favored soul spells and known cantrips. I don't see that as overpowered as, if you go sorcerer 16/favored soul 4 to add a couple of 2nd-level divine spells to your repertoire, you would never gain access to your 9th level sorcerer spells and spell slots.

EDIT: However, it would be possible for a sorc 19/FS 1 to cast a 9th level divine spell if the character could somehow learn it. However, a 1st level favored soul cannot learn 9th level divine spells and a 19th level sorcerer cannot learn 9th level divine spells, this feat don't change that.

RTGoodman
2008-06-12, 01:26 PM
Remember, favored souls learn spells like a sorcerer, not like a cleric. They do not automatically know every spell on their list.

Ah, right. Carry on, then. :smalltongue:


(Guess that's what I get for never playing spontaneous casters...)

Yakk
2008-06-12, 07:53 PM
[Feat] Spontaneous Spell Splicing
Requirements: Two classes that can cast spontaneous spells.

Effect: Pick two spontaneous spell casting classes. You may now use spells/day from either of the two classes to cast spells from the other. In addition, your caster level from the two classes add (this cannot cause your caster level to exceed your character level).

Note, however, that this does not give you access to spells known from either class any earlier.

Spells cast are considered to be from the class that provided spell knowledge, not from the class that provided the spell/day.

---

How is that? It now also allows a Sorcerer to splice spells with a Bard. I don't see a reason to limit it to Divine/Arcane splicing.

We could go even further, and have a boost to your spells known somehow.

Pie Guy
2008-06-12, 09:35 PM
Actually, I heard that sorcs could "research" a spell from any spell list and learn it.

Siosilvar
2008-06-12, 09:47 PM
Actually, I heard that sorcs could "research" a spell from any spell list and learn it.

These new spells can be common spells chosen from the wizard/sorcerer spell list or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some knowledge of by study. For example... scroll or spellbook detailing an unusual sorcerer/wizard spell...
That wording is a little vague... I think it's supposed to mean that you can research custom spells (as a wizard, see the DMG for information on that) and add them to your spells known like any other spell (if you succeed). It also appears sorcerers can learn spells from scrolls, as long as they don't go over their spells known maximum.

Innis Cabal
2008-06-12, 09:48 PM
for the first, and re-write, way to powerful. As for the second, i dont see anyone taking it, its not that is overpowerful, its just....not a very good feat, viable only for duel class PrC class's...and there are far better feats to take.

All in all.....while well made, they are hardly viable in even the weakest of mix/mash caster builds. The second also makes said PrC's more powerful, as a level 10/10 wizard(sorcerer)/Cleric(Favored Soul) will only have access as a 10th level of each, instead of the 13(14)/13(14) they would otherwise have. All it would help would be HD and even then not so much

Norr
2008-06-13, 02:45 PM
for the first, and re-write, way to powerful.

Can you point out exactly why you think they are too powerful? It's easier to fix stuff if you know what's wrong with it.

Innis Cabal
2008-06-13, 06:52 PM
i think the rest of my post details what i think is wrong with these feats, the idea of them etc. But to put it in better terms...the concept is just broken in general. Sharing spells is, besides a rather pointless ability, between class's is just to powerful. There is a reason why they have those sorts of rules in place. Curcumventing them is just silly and broken.

Norr
2008-06-14, 02:06 PM
I see what you're playing at, and I won't contradict you since you are right for the most part. This feat is (as far as I can tell) meant for those who want a few spells out of the divine list for their sorcerer and vice versa. I mean, if you have an inefficient party healer you might just want the ability to cure light wounds on yourself. Also, if you want to keep your ability to gain 9th level arcane spells, you can never gain 2nd level divine spells and vice versa. I think it's a viable alternative to the Mystic Theurge, since it gives a small amount of divine or arcane capability with an equally small amount of investment.

Also, everything is subject to DM approval, even core rules. Who would allow this feat? I don't know, but it doesn't prevent people from making it :smallwink: