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Zeta Kai
2008-06-10, 11:46 AM
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/8336/gon3va9.png
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3521/goncopyxu4.png

NOTE (7/3/'08): This thread is dedicated to discussion about Abraxes, the Eastern Continent (also known as the Continent of Mystery). For discussion concerning the Southern Continent, Terasul, please go HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84602). For discussion concerning the Northern Continent, Oderike, please go HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84633).


Premise
People at the other 4E GitP World-Building thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82487) have expressed interest in the creation of a second collaborative campaign setting, one that is more upbeat & positive in outlook & attitude. Now this is not normally my forte (I seem to have been the one responsible for sending that thread in a post-apocalyptic direction, for better or for worse), but I figured that since no one had created a thread for this, then it was up to me.

This thread is to discuss the themes & ideas of a new campaign setting, one created by the members of this forum. Anyone & everyone is invited to contribute any idea that they wish. Just remember, if your idea is bleak, violent, or otherwise dark, please go to the other world-building thread (see link above); this world is for light-hearted, exciting adventure.


Maps of Neve
(credit to tsuuga for original concept & layout)
This one is completely unlabeled:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/zetakai/GearsofNeve7.jpg
And this one is labeled with preliminary racial distribution:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/zetakai/GearsofNeve8.jpg


Map of Abraxas
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/zetakai/GoN-Abraxas3.jpg


The World of Neve
The First Sighting of Abraxas
The first sighting of Abraxas by the peoples of Oderike & Terasul was by a Principal League trader crewed by goblins. Blown of course by a freak gale, the strongly religious hobgoblin captain kept a strict diary of the happenings. It was clear to them that they would fall of the edge of the world. They were blown all around the place, for months, forced to survive on fish and drained saltwater. Indeed, they were close to following of the edge at times; the lookout had a heart-attack upon viewing it. However, the winds always changed, and blew them the other way. Every day, the captain would measure there position, using the stars and the sun, and mark down where they were. There first sight of land in 2 months was huge mountains in the distance. None of the crew had ever seen, or heard of anything like it. They were blown closer, and for a whole week, were off the coast of this wondrous land, all thick jungle and towering mountains, with storm clouds ever gathering near the shrouded peaks. Then they were adrift again in the open sea, and eventually made shore in the Draconic Empire. There, they were taken in, and there boat repaired, and they were sent back to Oderike. There, neither of there home countries believed there stories, but the Imperial Alliance thought it enough to warrant further investigation.

The First Expeditions to Abraxas
Two men signed up to lead expeditions east. These two men were as different as could be.

The young Sir Frederick Wallan was always known as an adventurous rogue: the third son of a minor nobleman, he somehow managed to earn money as fast as he spent it. The amount of money he spent on this expedition was unthought of; most though nobody would even except the offer of land and money for almost certain death. No matter, he bought himself a cog, and hired a crew of 15 sailors, with 5 soldiers, and brought them, along with his mistress Joanna and his personal bodyguard, Hernan, and set sail on Midsummers eve, for the unknown. Some say he never reached Abraxas. Some say he died on the journey. Some say he was killed by natives. Others, that he decided to join the natives and never come back. No matter the reason, he disappeared.

Not to be outdone, the venerable 64 year old Lord Victor of Umbroke sponsored no less than 3 fully manned caravels,, and the quickest ship in all the land, the Ghost, led by well known explorer Jel Thomsu, the very same man who opened negotiations with the Draconic Empire. With no less than 40 soldiers, and a crew of 60 sailors, they sighted land early in August, but could find no place suitable to spend a winter. On the 10th of September, they managed to find an area of land that was only lightly wooded, and drew the ships up on the pebbly beach. (They had made land only 4 other times, and collected samples of plant life.) They chopped down trees, and built a group of cabins, and a tower, surrounded by a palisade. They wintered there, and then sent back the Ghost with news that they had landed, and survived. The messengers words will go down in history as marking one of the most important changes in history.

"Man, Dwarf, Halfling and Goblin-kind! Long have we lived in this land, plowing the same soil, living and dying, and being buried in the same crypt as your fathers, and your fathers fathers. But now, we live in a new land! No longer the land of our ancestors, we have discovered the Land of the Descendants!"

Though the name Land of Descendants never caught on, people leaving the Old World are often playfully said to be 'Leaving the Bones', a reference to that first, and very important declaration.

The Edge of the World
From afar, the border looks like a mist, hanging in the air, the mist from the water plunging off of the edge. None have seen the edge close up and lived, though, so none can say for sure what lies beyond.

In other words, they think they've seen it. What have they seen, they don't know. Maybe it is the edge? Maybe not...

The New Imperial Colonies

Halflings: a lost tribe that entered from the north, went over the mountains, & were never seen again.
Draconic Empire: settling in the southern peninsula & the southern bay
Principal League: landed on the central west peninsula & the southwest bay




Races of Abraxas
Eladrin

Elves
Forgoth was a tiefling merchant, ejected from his land in the city of Gahundar for fraud, and unable to change loyalties, as his enemies had slandered his name all over the continent of Terasul. So, he he used what was left of his money to hire an Eladrin boat to take him to the continent of Odrike. During this time, he became enamored with the the Eladrin and there ways. He had heard of them, and knew that they came not from either continent he knew of, but from a mysterious land, somewhere. The thing with the Eladrin is that when not needed, they are always at the background, it is only when they are handy do they spring to mind.

When Forgoth heard of Abraxas, all of a sudden, everything became crystal clear. THIS was where they came from. And THIS was where he needed to go. He became obsessed. He waited eagerly for news of settlements in the New World. When the next ship was to leave for Portton, the capital of the colonies, he booked a spot. He endured the journey, as perilous as any sea journey is, and as uncomfortable, the entire time thinking only of finding the homeland of the Eladrin.

What he ended up finding would shock the world even more.

When he arrived, he wasted no time in setting out into the jungle. Alone, unprotected, armed only with his own conviction, he walked through the palisade gates, and into the grand unknown. If he had known he would join the ranks of his most admired discoverers, who knows what he might have done.

Forgoth was soon lost. Well, if you can call it lost. Can you be lost if you have no destination? He wandered for days, living off of what scarce plant life he could recognize, and a lot he could not. He saw many strange and wonderful beasts, but kept no log of them, as he was not an explorer, but merely a merchant who fancies himself an explorer.

He became faint, and tired, as one is wont to feel after several days with no sleep and scarce meals, and soon it came to pass that he fell unconscious on the jungle floor.
When he woke up, he was surrounded by a sort of Eldarin, except different. They were shorter, but still extraordinarily tall. Where the Eldarin were mysterious,these people were wild, strong, and hardy. They were the Elves.

The Elven tribe nursed Forgoth back to health, and he spent many months with them, and learned their language. They had watched the newcomers carefully for 2 years now, and had been fearful at there coming. From Forgoth, they learned where the strange people came from. From the Elves, Forgoth learned how to live in this land. However, after a time, Forgoth grew weary, and sought the company of his own people. His adoptive tribe led him back to Portton, now much larger, and, as soon as the walls came into sight, disappeared. Forgoth told everyone of the wondrous natives, the 'Noble Savages', and for a while was happy, but then, once again, longed for their company, and slipped out one day to rejoin them. Doubtless, he is with them now.

Half-Elves

Illithids
A sparse cluster of somewhat-savage brain-eating tribes. They were once a mighty & terrible empire, but a plague spread through their vast territory, carried by infected brains. This caused their monstrous empire to collapse, killed most of them off. Those that remain eek out a simple tribal life amidst the ruins of their grisly fallen metropolises, primarily preying on Elves, Oaves, & other nearby sentient inhabitants. These victims are invariably sacrificed to their venerated ancestors (&, of course, the brains are harvested).

Oaves
“Nature’s attempt at the epitome of laziness, the Oaves are a race of clumsy & carefree foragers.”

Average Height: 6’8” – 8’2”
Average Weight: 200lbs. – 400lbs.


Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Medium (see Oversized, below)
Speed: 6 Squares
Vision: Normal

Languages: Common, Oavish
Skill Bonus: Nature +4
Disease Resistance: +5 racial bonus to saving throws against poison
Adept Thrower: +2 racial bonus to attack and damage rolls when throwing heavy thrown weapons
Oversized: This creature may use equipment designed for creatures one size larger than it
Forager's Resilience: +2 to Fortitude defense

Play an Oaf if you want:

To be lazy to a fault
To throw big weapons
To be a member of a race that favors the Fighter, Ranger and Warlock classes


Oavish Feats
Heroic Tier
Thickheaded [Oaf]
+2 to Will defense

Overpower [Oaf]
Prerequisites: Strength 15
When you hit an enemy with a melee basic attack, you deal additional damage equal to your Constitution Modifier

Paragon Tier
Improved Overpower [Oaf]
Prerequisites: Overpower, Strength 17
When you would deal bonus damage with Overpower, you may instead knock the opponent prone

Epic Tier
Master Overpower [Oaf]
Prerequisites: Improved Overpower, Strength 19
When you would deal bonus damage or knock and enemy prone with Improved Overpower, you can do both

Yuan-ti
Degenerate elves who began to worship a dark serpentine god and practice twisted rituals.

The temple pyramids were built buy some long-gone-and-forgotten civilization (And I mean this from the natives' perspective). Obviously evil, maybe they wiped themselves out (or whatever). Both the mind-flayers and the Yuan-ti moved in after this, and have a long lasting rivalry over who actually gets to own, and live in, the pyramids. Some pyramids belong to the Yuan-ti, some to the mind-flayers, some havent been discovered yet, others are sealed for mysterious (and possibly evil!) reasons. In any case there's treasure and magical secrets to be had a-plenty inside these things. Season with ancient horrors to taste.

This brings me to a possible origin for the Yuan-ti: tribe/group of elves (mostly, because they've been living on Abraxas longer) investigate one of these sealed temples and discover some ancient entity, start worshipping it and get transformed into what they are now. Said entity (god, demon, whatever) might not necessarily be evil, could be neutral or even benign.


Things Left To Do

Write-up on the New Imperial Colonies
Write-up on the Eladrin of Abraxas
Write-up on the Elves
Write-up on the Half-Elves
Write-up on the Illithids
Write-up on the Oaves (culture)
Write-up on the Yuan-ti
Nailing down the scale of the world
Adding a coordinate grid to the map

Zeta Kai
2008-06-10, 12:01 PM
Now, to kick things off, I have a suggestion for a possible world-concept. No one is obligated to use it, but I feel like I should start with something. Here it goes:

A little over 50 years ago, sailors from the Western Empire discovered a new continent, located halfway across the globe to the east. This new land was seemingly uninhabited, & settlers from the empire have now come to live along the westernmost shore of this large & fertile land. They have started to prosper here in the New Empire, living off the land & (so far) building a successful string of colonies along the coastline.

But the new colonists wish to expand, & first they must explore the new land. A tall mountain chain has so far prevented all but the most rugged individuals from crossing over into the rest of the continent. Of those who have, all report fantastic sights, strange places, & stranger beasts. No one so far has even claimed to see a sentient native, but the many wild stories the first explorers brought back tell of endless tangled forests, fountains of light, bizarre rock formations, seas of whispering grasses, & other such wonders.

The colonies are now willing to pay large sums to anyone brave enough to cross the formidable mountains, gather information, & return with it. They're willing to pay a great deal more for those few who can lead a team of colonist further inland, in the great unknown.

PEACH

Mewtarthio
2008-06-10, 08:42 PM
Now, to kick things off, I have a suggestion for a possible world-concept. No one is obligated to use it, but I feel like I should start with something. Here it goes:

To be honest, it seems a touch ill-defined. I like the Age of Discovery aspects, but I don't see why the entire community should be devoting resources to something which is essentially "anything can happen because nobody knows what's out there."

I'd like the main Imperial continent to consist of only a small handful of races, while the new continent is populated by a diverse number of sentient races. The reason that the Old World reached the New World first instead of vice versa is that the Old World's dominant race (I'm thinking humans) are relatively united: While the Elves and Dwarves expend resources fighting each other, the Humans have resources to spare constructing ships to the New World.

For the Old World races, I'm thinking humans, kobolds, and dragonborn. Kobolds mostly live in caves and tunnels where humans prefer not to settle, so the two races mostly compete over mining tunnels, with neither trying to completely conquer or exterminate the other. I haven't quite discovered how the dragonborn fit in (possibly seen as valuable slaves by both humans and kobolds), but I'd like to have more than one PHB race in there, and dragonborn seem like a good pick since I've already thrown in the kobolds.

Lastly, I'd like to advance this a generation or two, so there's still plenty of conflict between the two worlds, but you could still feasibly have humans and elves adventuring together.

ArmorArmadillo
2008-06-10, 09:10 PM
Hmm...upbeat is good. I'm immediately reminded of Skies of Arcadia, both in the happy outlook and the focus on exploration.

I think the new world would be a good place to incorporate a homebrew race, that would be discovered by the players early on.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-11, 09:41 PM
Good ideas. I'd like to focus on the geographic aspects of this, so heres what I've inferred from the previous several posts.

The world isn't that big. There are only two main continents, and they aren't that huge. Everything else... well, nobody knows what everything else is because up till recently, people thought that the world ended a few miles out from shore. The two continents are separated by about a weeks worth of water; the reason no ones tried to traverse this before is because it never acured to anyone. The first continent, the larger one, is populated by humans as a dominant race, who have formed two competing empires, and countless small baronies. There aren't any major wars, but there are quite a few minor scuffles. Centuries ago, one of the smaller baronies made a pact with Orcus, and for a few years, one of his priests rules nearly half the continent, and he suddenly vanished, perhaps to join his god. In his wake he left thousands of mutated humanoids, the Teiflings. They are dispersed throughout society, and have formed several exclusive baronies. Dragonborn are the other major race that occupy the first continent, and they have a large kingdom separated from the humans by a large mountain range. Those mountains are inhabited by all manner of goblin, kobold, and dragon, and make traversing the range dangerous. Nonetheless, there are several large and well defended passes that the have been carved out. The humans and dragonborn are quite friendly, but it is not unknown for a dragonborn in human lands to be discriminated against as a freak or mutant. Other races that live exlussivly one continet one are Bugbears, Doppelgangers, Gnomes, Goblins, Hobbs, Kobolds, and Warforged.

Well, I'm all dried up. If anyone can expand to that description, fell free. I'll do continent two tomorrow.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-12, 06:14 PM
Huh, there doesn't appear to be much interest in this setting. Remember guys, were trying to make the successor to ToB. We need more than three actual posts.

gareth
2008-06-13, 02:01 AM
I've tried to reply twice, but I kept getting timed out. Perhaps we could encourage more interest with a discussion of what we mean by "positive". My view starts with the opposite of a positive setting. Someone once complained about "backswing" settings in science fiction - where millions of people have died and whole civilisations have been ground to dust merely to provide more room for the hero's backswing. One extreme example of this is S.M. Stirling's Dies the Fire series, where six billion people starve to death in a few months. The aftermath is the perfect setting for cool medieval warfare, but for most of humanity it's as bad as it can get. I like the books myself, but the whole idea of big disasters to generate a setting for adventures is getting a little musty. As someone pointed out on the other thread it's the basis for Eberron, Tears of Blood, and the default Fourth Edition setting. Although in the latter the disasters were in the distant past. So maybe this is the basis of the positive setting: Bad things won't happen just to create opportunities for adventuring. The world will exist on its own terms, and will contain advanced, prosperous societies that don't need adventurers to survive. Although obviously they'll sometimes be useful.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-13, 06:53 AM
Indeed. Here's my take on what we mean with positive:

Basically, in most settings, heroes are underdogs. They're fighting against Da Man, who is in power, monsters seem to await just out of the city walls, and there seems to be an excessive number of sinners with no saints to compensate. En short, it seems like every setting is some cheap Song of Ice and Fire ripoff.

What I propose we do with this setting is a REconstruction of the classic RPG world. Leaders are good. Heroes are not rejected by the common man as if they were mutants. Magic is a powerful force harnessed for the good of civilization. We want something a bit closer to Star Wars, only without the card carrying villains and with a possibility of failure.

Now, to the crunchy bits of the fluff: I disagree with the idea of two small continents. That means a small world. I'm in favor of, at the very least, three continents, which amount at the very least to a landmass equal to Eurasia. We'll start with the "main" continent, the one from which most PC races come from. So, the big question: WHICH races live there?

My vote goes to Humans, Halflings, dwarves (who will have some steampunkish technology, and some rennaissance tech), Gnomes, Doppelgangers, Goblins, and Kobolds. En shorte, the most city-based and organized races, which are more likely to create or live in big organized societies. The more nature oriented or savage races (With the exception of gnomes, who'll be in the main continent, and tieflings and dragonborn, who will hail from other continents), such as elves, eladrin, gnolls, or bugbears, would live in some other continent. How does it sound?

Zeta Kai
2008-06-13, 07:39 AM
So far, that sounds great. I'd like to see most of the emphasis of this settling focused on the New Empire continent. We can assume that the land of the Western Empire is a small-but-civilized corner of the world, something akin to an idealized Europe (perhaps more like Europe is today, as opposed to its bloody, barbaric past). Here are some thoughts:

All of the PC races come from the Western Empire. The New Empire continent has no known sentient races, but the occasional odd rumor from the few previous explorers hints at a native people.
The Western Empire was somewhat small, about the size of Europe or Australia. It was surrounded by other strong nation-states, which is why they decided to sent explorers & settlers out to sea. Lastly, I propose that they be many thousands of miles from the New Empire, about halfway across the globe; that way, they can be as pleasant & helpful as they wish to be, but they are simply too far away to bail out the colonists if/when they run into trouble. The New Imperials are on their own in this unknown land, & they will have to deal with their own problems.
Obviously, most players are going to want a race of natives to interact with. I suggest that we create not just one such homebrewed race, but several, & leave it up to the DM to decide just which one they want in their campaign. This'll be sort of a Choose You Own Adventure NPC race. Options include: arborial "noble savages," benevolent/ambivalent dragons (they've got to be somewhere in this setting), subterranean gnomes (that's why their not in the PHB), or something even more bizarre like Chaotic Good illithids (that'll surprise a PC party). We could craft the various optional cultures, & the DM chooses which one (or ones) to include.
Lastly, we need to make sure that this setting is truly positive. Sure, there will be danger, conflict & even the occasional BBEG. But this should be a world full of excitement, wonder & upbeat adventure. Famine, cannibalism, genocide, racism, slavery, rape, torture, & other such atrocities should be rare & abhorent, sickeningly distasteful to all sentient peoples. Even the most blood-thirsty orcish warlord would rather just bash someone's skull & avoid the messy business of doing something more sadistic to his captives. If this is going to be a positive campaign setting, we need to design both crunch & fluff to maintain that theme of our setting.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Violent disputes? PEACH away.

tsuuga
2008-06-13, 08:39 AM
Let's skip the "Ruins of a more advanced ancient civilization" theme entirely on this one.

A week apart sounds like a good distance to me. Long sea voyages are boring at best, and depressing or riddled with sickness at worst. Maybe this world has only just developed deep-keeled boats suited to leaving coastal waters, or perhaps the huge sea-beast who has claimed the waters between the two continents for the last thousand years finally met his Captain Ahab.

In keeping with the theme, I think the setting should explicitly support a mode of play other than "kill monsters, take their stuff, then save the world". A "Land Grab" campaign, for instance... where the players are hired as troubleshooters by a NPC patron (or a party member) to protect and grow his fledgling settlement on the frontier. If you've got one or more detail oriented PCs, give them a lot of control over the growth of the settlement. It provides a home base for the PCs, something to get attached to in the new world, a reason to parlay with (or fight off) the natives, a population of NPCs to whom the PCs are their personal heroes, and a way to get the PCs money and items on a continent that's never seen civilization(In addition to their salary, the players are given cuts of the profits on their discoveries and enterprises, like that iron mine, stream full of gold nuggets, or that herd of dire buffalo they captured... which works out to approximately WBL. Magic items can be gifts from their sponsor, or simply ordered from back home). Once the city is established, the characters may be inclined to make expeditions farther afield, searching for the City of Gold, Fountain of Youth, or Gumdrop Forest.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-13, 08:59 AM
So far, that sounds great. I'd like to see most of the emphasis of this settling focused on the New Empire continent. We can assume that the land of the Western Empire is a small-but-civilized corner of the world, something akin to an idealized Europe (perhaps more like Europe is today, as opposed to its bloody, barbaric past). Here are some thoughts:

All of the PC races come from the Western Empire. The New Empire continent has no known sentient races, but the occasional odd rumor from the few previous explorers hints at a native people.
The Western Empire was somewhat small, about the size of Europe or Australia. It was surrounded by other strong nation-states, which is why they decided to sent explorers & settlers out to sea. Lastly, I propose that they be many thousands of miles from the New Empire, about halfway across the globe; that way, they can be as pleasant & helpful as they wish to be, but they are simply too far away to bail out the colonists if/when they run into trouble. The New Imperials are on their own in this unknown land, & they will have to deal with their own problems.
Obviously, most players are going to want a race of natives to interact with. I suggest that we create not just one such homebrewed race, but several, & leave it up to the DM to decide just which one they want in their campaign. This'll be sort of a Choose You Own Adventure NPC race. Options include: arborial "noble savages," benevolent/ambivalent dragons (they've got to be somewhere in this setting), subterranean gnomes (that's why their not in the PHB), or something even more bizarre like Chaotic Good illithids (that'll surprise a PC party). We could craft the various optional cultures, & the DM chooses which one (or ones) to include.
Lastly, we need to make sure that this setting is truly positive. Sure, there will be danger, conflict & even the occasional BBEG. But this should be a world full of excitement, wonder & upbeat adventure. Famine, cannibalism, genocide, racism, slavery, rape, torture, & other such atrocities should be rare & abhorent, sickeningly distasteful to all sentient peoples. Even the most blood-thirsty orcish warlord would rather just bash someone's skull & avoid the messy business of doing something more sadistic to his captives. If this is going to be a positive campaign setting, we need to design both crunch & fluff to maintain that theme of our setting.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Violent disputes? PEACH away.

Sounds interesting. Here's my opinions on everything, going in order:

Let's say all of the citylike PC races (All the ones I listed, sans gnomes, possibly) come from one of three empires: A small but thriving empire, which would be the one you mentioned, a theo or magocratic tiefling/eladrin society (Not necessarily ruled by mages, the magocracy. Could be ruled by warlocks too), and a big, massive dragonborn empire, with them as a sort of elder race.

This sounds about right. Let's make it so that the Western Empire is like an idealized Spain. It sends tools and materials to the colonists and expects tributes from them, but otherwise lets them be.

That's a nice idea. I like that my idea of Illithids as a good race is taking off. That said, I think I can make a little list:

Noble jungle savages: Elves. Was there any doubt? They're tailormade for it.

Desert race: A homebrewed race. I'm thinking of something like giantkin.

Dominant race: Homebrewed race. Something as versatile as humans, but with different looks and stats.

Water race: We need some kind of tritons or sirens!

Mountain race: Maybe the CG illithids that we want?

As for dragons... let's make them some sort of manifestation, much like it seems scourge dragons are going to work. A gold dragon nest, for example, would be a breeding ground for righteousness, while an ancient red dragon would be a perfect embodiment of greed. They'd be all-round the world, and some could even be citizens of the empires.

This last point I'm not okay with. It should be allowed to make truly vile, repugnant villains, the ones that have their way with children and eat babies for dinner. My opinion is, though, that they're a rarity, not the normal thing. Most people are good, and the leaders of the empires are big time Epic people, over level 30, who want only the best for their people. In short, there ARE horrible people, but there's always going to be a hero ready to fight them.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-13, 09:36 PM
Alright, here goes my description of the world: take two. Lets say there are three islands: two that are settled, and the new world. I think that we should keep the standard 4e cosmology and pantheon, I like those. However, Melora is a creator goddess. Just go with it, m'kay?

When the world was created by the primordials and gods, there were two gates open to the energies left over from the world settling: the Feywild and the Shadowfell. These gates were closed long ago, but there influence is still felt by those who look for it. The two gates allowed earth to enter the world, and the first two continents arose. On the Feytouched continent, Humans, Dwarves, Halflings, and Goblinoids emerged. On the other arose Tieflings, Dragonborn, Elves, Kobolds, Orcs, and Shifters.

Continent 1
The humans, dwarves, and halflings formed a large, friendly alliance after a period of tribal primitivism, and developed a large, well developed culture. While the humans where plains dwellers, the Dwarves stayed in the mountains, and the halfling preferred the coasts, they were equally integrated, for the most part, in most of the cities. The continent was large enough to allow for exploration for a time, and the high mountains and deep forests provided generations of time before the alliance had settled most of the continent. However, the fourth race of the continent refused to cooperate or join the alliance: the violent goblinoids, who had formed a small empire. The groups warred for several years, but eventually the war was stopped because both groups realized it's futility. The alliance and empire were connected only by several land bridges, so the two groups agreed to stay out of each other's way. Several fortifications were built by the alliance to keep out any rogue Bugbear warlords. The alliance turned inward for a time, and began a period of great discovery and progress, which lasts to this day.

Continent 2
Unlike it's sister continent, this continent's races were slightly more firmly segregated. The great Dragonborn Empire (think the 40k empire, only done right.), lead by an immortal exarch of Bahamut, rules over a sizable portion of the continent, in a state of peace and progress. The elves, who long ago split into their three subraces, originally formed a small kingdom, but both the Drow and the Elves eventually left. The drow formed their own subterranean kingdom in the colossal cavern network that lies several miles under the earth, and the Elves set off on a vast fleet of ships, never to be heard of again. The Eladrin allied with the Tieflings and created a small republic on a large peninsula, a few days away from the Dragonborn empire. The Kobolds formed a huge nation of their own, based out of a gargantuan mountain of almost ten miles. The kobolds keep to themselves, occasionally attacking a peaceful settlement, but they are generally kept under control by the Dragonborn. The orcs, however, are what keeps the two nations on their toes: the orc empire is gigantic, but vastly isolated. Dragonborn and Eladrin armies are constantly off in distant lands fighting the orcs, and the war is so ancient, and the allies so successful, that war is rarely on the mind of the two nations, and there haven't been civilian casualties in centuries.

The two continents are friendly, with the alliance trading with the two empires, and sending the occasional army to help with the war. There is peace and unity throughout the world.

You guys can fluff up continent three. The only thing I supplied is that the elves live there. (Also, if you guys catch any spilleng ur gramar mastekes, please feel free to point them out. no doubt I made some in this megapost, and theyre embaerrasing. :smallyuk: )

Zeta Kai
2008-06-13, 11:49 PM
A week apart sounds like a good distance to me. Long sea voyages are boring at best, and depressing or riddled with sickness at worst. Maybe this world has only just developed deep-keeled boats suited to leaving coastal waters, or perhaps the huge sea-beast who has claimed the waters between the two continents for the last thousand years finally met his Captain Ahab.

Alright, this is an idea that has to die, lest it poison the entire setting set up so far. Listen, oceanic voyages take time. They just do, & wishing they didn't take time is not only wasteful, but it is harmful to the setting's believability.

Let's say we go with idea that the Western Empire & the New Empire colonies are really just a week's trip by boat. For the average boat speed, I'll use the 3.5E book Stormwrack as a basis for determining ocean travel (if anyone has more accurate numbers regarding average vessel speed, please provide better numbers). Table 5-2: Boats & Ships (page 97) gives vessel speeds ranging from ˝MPH for a barge to 4MPH for an elven wingship. To be fair, we'll say that the average speed is 2MPH, about the speed of a cog, a fast galley, a fast longship. Now, in an average wind (light wind), these ships travel 15-20 feet per round. According to the section regarding a day's progress (pages 24 & 25), a ship in open waters travels a number of miles in a day equal to twice its feet per round. That works out to an average distance of 30-40 miles traveled per day. So a week-long voyage for your average ship would be 210-280 miles.

Do you see the problem with this yet?

For those who say "So what?", let me explain: 280 miles is NOTHING on this planet. That is about the width of Pennsylvania. This isn't even sufficient to divide 2 nations over land without them both at least knowing the other's existence. If 2 continents were divided by only 280 miles, you have cross-continental contact since prehistoric times. People would cross that little of a gap via canoes. You'd need a much larger distance to ensure that the peoples of the Western Empire would only have found the New Empire within recent times. Otherwise, what's been preventing them from sending explorers & settlers before? And don't say famine or war, because those are against the theme. We already have multiple classic examples of distance colonists (pilgrims in New England, conquistadors in South America), & idealized, benevolent versions of those are what this settling is based on thus far.

Look, you need the distance between the 2 continents to be large. If the homeland was less than 1,000 miles away, then there's too much focus on the Empire. The New Empire continent & its colonists are where the campaign is set; the Empire should be no more than a distant background detail, half a world way. Sure, you have ships hailing from the motherland arriving every few months in the largest port cities, but they would bring new settlers, news from the homeland, the odd exotic trinket & little else. But to be so close they would undoubtedly exert too much influence on the settlers & too easily allow for PC's to leave the New Empire & go the the motherland, which spoils the exploration concept. Explaining away these troublesome details would most likely require disasters or massive magical intervention, neither of which is fitting within the basic themes already laid out.

To allow for a much closer motherland would shift focus away from the setting's primary region, dilute the feel, & strain verisimilitude. I've said my peace.

chiasaur11
2008-06-14, 12:27 AM
Hmm....
Too close might be a bad thing.
If you're within a month of home, then explorers come all the time. No reason for royals and such not to take active leadership. If it's further away, then the players can be given authority in the name of their local rulers. Or at least legal claim to whatever they can keep.

Why not have an Oregon style gentlemen's agreement between two of the races that whoever colonizes more of the land owns it?

horngeek
2008-06-14, 02:30 AM
The great Dragonborn Empire (think the 40k empire, only done right.), lead by an immortal exarch of Bahamut, rules over a sizable portion of the continent, in a state of peace and progress.

It's possible to do the Imperium right?

That said, this is a great idea, guys. It'll be interesting to see what gets come up with.

EDIT: Also, is adventures on the main continent nessecarially a bad thing? C'mon, political intrigue is great!

gareth
2008-06-14, 03:53 AM
Since this setting is meant to be used with the Fourth Edition rules, it might be worth thinking about paladins. In 3.5, they had a strict code of behaviour. If they broke it, they lost their powers. In 4, they can start stomping kittens straight after the rituals are done, and keep all of their powers. For a positive setting, I propose that we reintroduce a code of behaviour. Break it, and the paladin loses all powers. Skills and weapon proficiencies stay the same, and the character can retrain as some other class. I'd also suggest that all paladins are required to be Lawful Good.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-14, 09:51 AM
Since this setting is meant to be used with the Fourth Edition rules, it might be worth thinking about paladins. In 3.5, they had a strict code of behaviour. If they broke it, they lost their powers. In 4, they can start stomping kittens straight after the rituals are done, and keep all of their powers. For a positive setting, I propose that we reintroduce a code of behaviour. Break it, and the paladin loses all powers. Skills and weapon proficiencies stay the same, and the character can retrain as some other class. I'd also suggest that all paladins are required to be Lawful Good.

Sounds good, but how about only gor Palies of good/lawful good gods?

Zeta Kai, you have convinced me. Let us say about two months by boat? And I have this idea of huge, nay, gargantuan ships capable of transporting an entire town across the ocean. That way, there can be settlements of decent size along the coast of the new world, I'm thinking of about two or three thousand people. One of the underlying goals of the PCs is to locate a good place for a permenant settlement. In addition, I think that the new world should actually be a huge group of islands, with hundreds of small ones and several larger ones. Thats all I have for now; after I get some input,I'll do another megapost.

Zeta Kai
2008-06-14, 11:15 AM
I like the idea of restricting Paladin's to a code of honor, but I don't think that we should go back to the old 3.5 system of doing things, which led to many paladins acting as the PC-police. No, let's instead make a code of honor, but it would have social consequence if broken. They wouldn't lose any powers, but any violation of their oath would cause an aura of sin to emanate from them until they properly atone for their transgression (atonement varies by the sin). This aura would confer penalties to attack, defense, etc. & make NPC's react unfavorably. Also, perhaps paladins in our setting should be any Good: it's a tighter restriction than 4E, but it's looser than 3E.

I like the idea of city-barges, but keep in mind that they would be as slow (or even slower) than a normal-sized barge. According to Stormwrack (page 98), barges only move 5' per round, which works out to 10 miles per day. A 2 month (60 day) voyage for an average-speed vehicle would be 1,800-2,400 miles (which sounds like a good distance between the continents to me). This would take a barge between 180-240 days (6-8 months) to complete. Granted, a city barge would be a lot more comfortable than a standard seacraft, & have a lot more amenities, such as full kitchens, toiletries, livestock, etc. Seasickness would be less of an issue, as a vessel that large wouldn't rock very easily. Protection from the elements would need considerable consideration, though.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-14, 11:40 AM
Um, were did I say barge? :smalltongue:

I was thinking something like a run of the mill medieval ship, only about five times larger in every dimension. After all, this is epic fantasy, is it not? Or, if that is a little too epic, possibly having gigantic fleets would be an interesting substitution. Perhaps orc or goblinoid pirates have sprung up?

I think that the PCs should start in the old world, board a gigantic ship/fleet, spend a few sessions on board, and then emerge with the rest of the passengers.

Recaiden
2008-06-14, 04:12 PM
I thought the difference for this world was the lack of a decline or huge disaster that destroyed everything. Three continents about 2000+ miles apart sounds good. The idea of islands ould be useful. Maybe the third continent is made up of lots of smaller islands? I think that magic should be common, but not overpowered.

gareth
2008-06-14, 04:22 PM
OK, paladins can be any Good, and can worship any Good god, although the alignments still have to be identical. Any penalty for misbehaviour can be removed by atonement, but some acts are so evil that the atonement has to be self-sacrifice. Think Darth Vader's death here. As for what the penalty is, an aura of sin seems like it would be too complex. Removing powers is simpler and also fits a consistent fluff explanation - the paladin's god provides the powers directly and takes them away to punish him. Maybe small transgressions remove daily powers, larger ones encounter powers, and even larger ones at-will powers. To avoid the PC police thing, specifiy that only the paladin's behaviour affects his powers. The other PCs can do all kinds of questionable things as long as he doesn't participate in them. In a positive setting there will be limits on how bad the other PCs are anyway.

wodan46
2008-06-14, 07:11 PM
I've actually been thinking about the concept of an Age of Discovery as a good setting for D&D/any fantasy RPG. It allows the DM a good amount of control, as there can always be another hidden civilization located behind the next valley.

For the setting you've described so far, here's some ideas:

1. The 2 continents, while within a few hundred miles of each other, were magically obscured from each other for over a millennia, to the point that the inhabitants of each continent are mythical legends to the other, except by a rare few in the know.
2. Why the continents were obscured from each other in the first place, and are no longer, are both huge questions. Perhaps to ensure that the scattered pieces of an artifact never meet...
3. The PC's home continent is divided into rival nations eager to explore the new region and claim its land and resources for themselves. Players will have to deal with rival adventuring parties who represent more "evil" nations, simple mercs in it for their own gain, and more morally grey agents who may help your party 1 day and steal their treasure the next.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-14, 07:35 PM
I have some more ideaas building on my previous posts, but I'd like to see what Zeta and Azerian think of them, first.

Yakk
2008-06-14, 08:42 PM
I've seen this in another bit of world building, and I think it adds to the fun fantasy of the situation.

Instead of boats and continents, floating rocks and airships.

World:
The World is a bunch of huge Earth domains, floating in the Air. When you are above an Earth domain, you fall downward towards the Earth. This fades off as you go upwards -- but it also causes nasty air currents in the area above an Earth domain.

In the Air domain, Water's natural form is Cloud. When it approaches an Earth Domain, it tends to become Rain, and fall on the Earth Domain.

The bottom of an Earth Domain is craig-like rock. The Rock has no need to fall any further (as it is the bottom of the Earth Domain), and if you fall off you float in the air. Civilized areas (Dwarves live down here) at the bottom of an Earth Domain have netting extending outwards to catch people who fall off.

The sides of an Earth Domain tend to have lots of waterfalls. These fall off the Earth Domain, and the water converts back into Clouds as it stays in the Air Domain. This makes travelling "under" an Earth Domain not very viable -- the water, clouds and the air currents generated are chaotic. The dwarves have engaged in large-scale Waterworks that have allowed limited approaches to their underground docks at the bottom of the Domain, with the added benefit that the Dwarves can open the plugs and shut down their own Harbors.

If you "fall" outside of an Earth Domain, you just float. There is nothing pulling you down.

As Clouds are relatively common in the Air Domain, lines of sight over large Air distances are limited.

The ability to travel short ranges over the Air has been developing over time. Cloud-farmers has been around for centuries, where you launch a farm that lives off the water in the Clouds. Fishing the air is also profitable, as there are flying creatures that can be harvested from them.

Airships use treated EarthWood to produce a downward pull on things on the ship -- this means you don't have to tie everything down, and risk it floating off. Prior to the development of the Astral Keel, ships where at the mercy of the wind, with very little control (crank-ships, that turned large rotating fans, could move against the wind: but these had extremely short range, due to the raw effort it takes to move a ship).

The Astral Keel allows the ship to tack against the wind (much as a Keel allows a ship to tack in our universe). Ships with Astral Keels have started an age of Discovery, as long air-trips are now viable.

There are other geographic features in the air. Storms (theorized to be around Water domains -- but reports of what is actually inside a Storm is mostly mythological) exist, and are serious hazards. They sometimes pass near Continents (Earth Domains) and create massive weather issues.

The Sun travels in a large circle around the world. So the underside of a continent gets daylight at different times than the topside.

Stars are believed to be Fire Domains, floating in the Air. Only a handful are nearby. Approaching them on a Ship is suicide. There have been a handful of close encounters with Stars in recorded history, and they generally led to massive drought, fires, and collapse of empires.

Continents tend not to move relative to each other. There are three continents in that exist in a small constellation near the Imperial continent. Travel between them has always been possible.

The age of discovery has found a number of reasonably far-away continents and constellations. These are populated with strange beings and cultures...

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-06-14, 08:43 PM
How advanced is technology going to be?
I find it hard to imagine anything much different from the norm of the Spanish Conquistadors, which is simple one piece helmet, 2 piece breastplates, matchlock muskets, swords, crossbows.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-14, 09:15 PM
-snip-

Huh. This is pretty interesting... I'm not sure if its in keeping with the rest, but the idea that air travel became viable recently is pretty cool. And, as everyone knows, Dirigibles spell awesome. I envisioned a good level of steampunk for this setting, so that would be in place... However, there are some aspects of that that are a little off the wall, and this is intended as a fairly generic setting.

Zeta Kai
2008-06-14, 11:16 PM
...The World is...

These are all great ideas, but I think that they would be better used here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78733), where they fit the theme a lot more.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-15, 11:04 AM
I have some ideas for the setting that involve prominent use of steampunk tropes. Before I write them up, can we agree that steampunk, at least the tech, fits this setting?

Lappy9000
2008-06-15, 12:18 PM
Huh, this is a really good idea. The whole reason why I never got interested in ToB was due to the mood of the setting.

I don't own anything 4th edition as of yet, but I will be glad to contribute fluff.


I have some ideas for the setting that involve prominent use of steampunk tropes. Before I write them up, can we agree that steampunk, at least the tech, fits this setting?

Steampunk technology? Yes. Steakpunk itself? Maybe not. Something along the lines of "glasslamp fantasy" coined by Girl Genius with a more upbeat take on steampunk may be a bit more suitable.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, Chaotic Good Illithids = Win

Yakk
2008-06-15, 04:43 PM
No worries. :) Just thought I'd toss out some evocative images that have been rattling around.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-15, 04:57 PM
I have some ideas for the setting that involve prominent use of steampunk tropes. Before I write them up, can we agree that steampunk, at least the tech, fits this setting?

Of course. I'm already designing an "Anti gravity generator" for personal use to make flying ships. And then there's the question of what happens when someone realizes the killing they can make with Everlasting Provisions.

Zeta Kai
2008-06-15, 07:36 PM
I have no issues with elements of steampunk appearing from time to time. It would grant this project a unique flavor. It probably shouldn't become Wild Wild West meets Shadowrun, but some elements of steampunk can't hurt.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-15, 07:54 PM
That's okay. I'm thinking of something more in the style of Wild Arms, with a slight tone down.

tsuuga
2008-06-16, 11:47 AM
Zeta Kai, I too am convinced.

And I have this idea of huge, nay, gargantuan ships capable of transporting an entire town across the ocean. That way, there can be settlements of decent size along the coast of the new world, I'm thinking of about two or three thousand people.

Wooden boats that huge are, unfortunately, technically unfeasible. Large ships become more flexible, allowing water to seep in. The largest ships on this list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world's_largest_wooden_ships) required pumps running 24/7 to deal with it. It's much more feasible to take a fleet of 20 or so ships carrying people and manufactured goods, and log to build your houses when you arrive. Or even disassemble your ships for materials. A steamship could carry that much stuff, or that many people - but they're too fast. The Lusitania (A very large steamship) had a top speed of 28.8 MPH - it could go 41,000 miles in a two month voyage (Of course, it would need enough coal)


In addition, I think that the new world should actually be a huge group of islands, with hundreds of small ones and several larger ones.

I think the new world should be primarily a large continent - but there's no reason not to have one or several large archipelagos. It's just my opinion that island-hopping all the time would make the setting a bit... nautical.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-06-16, 09:02 PM
We're all forgetting the most important thing...

When are we getting the pretty banners :P

chiasaur11
2008-06-16, 09:53 PM
Hmm...
Huge seas, boat travel, lots of money...
One word:
Yarrr...

Zeta Kai
2008-06-16, 11:41 PM
Western Steampunk = :smallcool:

Pirates in the Positive Campaign = :smalleek:

tsuuga
2008-06-17, 12:20 AM
Because you (i.e. nobody!) asked for it: I'm working on some maps based on what Moff Chumley said earlier.

Continent 1 with the humans, dwarves, halflings, and goblinoids is on the lower left. Continent 2 with dragonborn, eladrin, tieflings and orcs is on the upper left. The new world is on the right. What follows is the raw output of my coastline generation process; if there's any geographical features you want to change, now is the time. Since it looks a bit like someone threw up on your monitor in monochrome, I'm also including a cleaned-up version of continent 2 to show what the coastline will actually look like.

Linked cause they're pretty darn big:
Randomized coastline (http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2222/basicmapoutline3copyal7.png)
Cleaned Continent (http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7650/basicmapoutline3copy2fa7.png)

I plan to do an overall topographical map, some partial maps suitable to give to players, and perhaps some regional or political maps.

tsuuga
2008-06-17, 12:39 AM
We're all forgetting the most important thing...

When are we getting the pretty banners :P

Ask and ye shall receive!

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7533/positivesettingscopyjw8.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7533/positivesettingscopyjw8.jpg

Hmm... it looks kinda large to me, now that I see it in context... but I've got to be up in about 5 hours. Oh well... we'll need a new one once this setting acquires a name anyhow.

AmadeusWindfall
2008-06-17, 03:32 AM
Pirates in the Positive Campaign = :smalleek:

Pirates don't have to be negative. We could go for an idealised version: swashbucklers sailing about the seas between the two continents, attacking the ships of evil people who only want to get a land of their own to oppress others.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-17, 06:59 AM
Indeed. The idea of The Black Corsair and Sandokan going toe to toe with Captain Flint and John Silver has all the air of "epic" that we want to give to this campaign.

However, I propose we first focus on the initial continent. I say we have four empires there:

A) Humans, of course.

B) Dwarves, steampunkish flavor, please.

C) Dragonborn, Proud Warrior Race Guys.

D) Halflings, the good equivalent of a bigger Mortal Engines world, with cities appearing and disappearing miles away. Basically, a nomad empire, which is the reason the little guys prospered, since it's hard to target an empire whose towns are all constantly moving.

I propose we take a race and give them all a different theme. If at all possible, I'd like to claim the Dragonborn and give them a norseish flavor, with them occupying the frozen norths of the continent. Someone else could do the steampunk flavor of the Dwarves and, to a lesser extent, humans, another group could make the Halfling Empire, and one last group could craft the history of the human empire.

Tsuuga: Could you give us another banner? Something in the style of Ragnarok Online would fit with our upbeat theme, but it shouldn't be so chibi.

tsuuga
2008-06-17, 10:28 AM
There's certainly room for pirates in the setting, particularly the catch-and-release variety("Why would I kill him or take his ship? This way I can rob him again next year."). I just don't think they should be the focus of the campaign. Besides, upbeat pirates makes me think of The Pirate Song (by Ray Stevens)


I say we have four empires there:

A) Humans, of course.

B) Dwarves, steampunkish flavor, please.

C) Dragonborn, Proud Warrior Race Guys.

D) Halflings, the good equivalent of a bigger Mortal Engines world, with cities appearing and disappearing miles away. Basically, a nomad empire, which is the reason the little guys prospered, since it's hard to target an empire whose towns are all constantly moving.

This is mostly fine with me. Are Tieflings and Eladrin lumped in with humans? Also, I feel that a motorized city ala Mortal Engines is, well, too steampunk. I would totally support them being elusive nomads who can pack up camp and disappear in a heartbeat, or living in colonies on the bodies of immense animals.


Tsuuga: Could you give us another banner? Something in the style of Ragnarok Online would fit with our upbeat theme, but it shouldn't be so chibi.

:smalleek: I am really not much of an artist... World and dungeon maps is pretty much the extent of my abilities >_<

Cyclone231
2008-06-17, 12:50 PM
Man, when did positive mean "zero villains ever"? Jeez guys, I thought this setting was to avoid the endless grit of Tears of Blood and the decline of every setting ever made, not to be a happy-perfect world where everyone gets along and nobody is mean. Conan had unrepentant villains. Lord of the Rings had unrepentant villains. In fact, one of the big signs of a cinematic, "light" fantasy setting is one with clear villains.

Zeta Kai
2008-06-17, 01:59 PM
Man, when did positive mean "zero villains ever"? Jeez guys, I thought this setting was to avoid the endless grit of Tears of Blood and the decline of every setting ever made, not to be a happy-perfect world where everyone gets along and nobody is mean. Conan had unrepentant villains. Lord of the Rings had unrepentant villains. In fact, one of the big signs of a cinematic, "light" fantasy setting is one with clear villains.

No one said there are no villains in this campaign. I've already though of many appropriate BBEGs for this setting. We're just trying to avoid the kind of setting where the racist gang-raping psychopath isn't just a common character, but is practically the average citizen (I was in a V:tM chronicle for over a year where this kind of character was the norm; the first thing I did when I became storyteller was burn the city to the ground).

When I think of this campaign, I am starting to liken it to Final Fantasy, Wild Arms, Trigun, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc. Each of which have plenty of vibrant, dastardly villains.

Cyclone231
2008-06-17, 07:23 PM
No one said there are no villains in this campaign. I've already though of many appropriate BBEGs for this setting. We're just trying to avoid the kind of setting where the racist gang-raping psychopath isn't just a common character, but is practically the average citizen (I was in a V:tM chronicle for over a year where this kind of character was the norm; the first thing I did when I became storyteller was burn the city to the ground).

When I think of this campaign, I am starting to liken it to Final Fantasy, Wild Arms, Trigun, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc. Each of which have plenty of vibrant, dastardly villains.
Pirates are vibrant, dastardly villains who are not the average citizen. So why are they bad for a positive setting?

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-17, 07:25 PM
Pirates are vibrant, dastardly villains who are not the average citizen. So why are they bad for a positive setting?

They aren't. Pirates are in, in fact.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-18, 06:11 PM
YES! Pirates in, Steampunk tech in. This makes Chumley happpy. :smallbiggrin: Tsuuga, those maps look terrific. However, would it be possible to add more islands and archipelagos and such to the third continent?

Dibs on the dwarves. I'm going to give them a very un-Tolkien flavor: they are ruled by a large corporation-government, which, while slightly secretive, isn't evil or oppressive. I'll give this more thought later.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-18, 06:29 PM
YES! Pirates in, Steampunk tech in. This makes Chumley happpy. :smallbiggrin: Tsuuga, those maps look terrific. However, would it be possible to add more islands and archipelagos and such to the third continent?

Dibs on the dwarves. I'm going to give them a very un-Tolkien flavor: they are ruled by a large corporation-government, which, while slightly secretive, isn't evil or oppressive. I'll give this more thought later.

So, you're gonna make them Sullustans from Star Wars? Awesome.

In case you don't know who they are, Sullustans are This guys. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sullustan) Their planet is run by SoroSuub, a megacompany that rules the planet, but is not cruel and oppresive, but rather is quite benevolent.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-18, 10:02 PM
So, you're gonna make them Sullustans from Star Wars? Awesome.

In case you don't know who they are, Sullustans are This guys. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sullustan) Their planet is run by SoroSuub, a megacompany that rules the planet, but is not cruel and oppresive, but rather is quite benevolent.

Chumley's random musings and brainstorming:
Huh, in retrospect, I did steal from the Sullustans a bit, didn't I? However, to screw up the analogy a bit, I'ma gonna make them Chinese. That way, the leader of their government can be called chairman Bao, or something to that effect. :smallbiggrin: On second thought, thats probably going to be more trouble than its worth... How about making the Eladrin oriental and keeping the Dwarves eastern european. Maybe Jewish. Yes, I think we shall make our dwarves Jewish. On second thought, that doesn't really fit with the default fluff, and I don't want to change much of that. So, lets just keep the dwarves pretty ordinary, maybe a bit of Glasslamp Fantasy. Or hell, why not a lot of it? Can't hurt.

What Chumley actually posts:
I like the Sullustan analogy, lets combine that with some glasslamp fantasy and generic dwarfiness and call it a day. To further the Sullustan analogy, lets have them be tied heavily to humungous airships. I love the idea of a dwarvin metropolis set up in an inactive volcano with a huge airship positioned under the caldera under construction by hundreds of dwarven mechanics.

I, personally, have nothing wrong with pirates and nauticalness. And, if we make Eldarin Japanese and Dwarves steampunkish, that means we get Cowboys, Ninjas, Robots, and Pirates in the same setting, and I don't think we can really do much better than that.

tsuuga
2008-06-19, 12:21 AM
Tsuuga, those maps look terrific. However, would it be possible to add more islands and archipelagos and such to the third continent?

That was my intention... I really should have mentioned that in the post. I'll need to generate them separately anyway... the method I use to make coastlines won't make lots of islands and continents on the same run-through.


Sullustans

*looks at the picture*
Gah, those guys! I don't know what it is about Han's Copilot I hated so much...


humungous airships

I'm wary of airships... they would make it somewhat trivial to map out the new, *unexplored* continent.

Wait, what am I thinking, this is steampunk. Everything runs on coal. Good luck exploring a continent on one blimpload of coal. Or even crossing the ocean.

... Carry on then!

(Wikipedia, some math, and an old newspaper article tells me that, working with coal power, a WWI era zeppelin would be able to carry about 500 miles worth of fuel in coal. A thousand if you didn't bring a crew or whatnot.)

Lappy9000
2008-06-19, 10:32 AM
D) Halflings, the good equivalent of a bigger Mortal Engines world, with cities appearing and disappearing miles away. Basically, a nomad empire, which is the reason the little guys prospered, since it's hard to target an empire whose towns are all constantly moving.

Mwa...
http://www.otaku-j.jp/jpmovie/anime2/ghibli/hawl.jpg


I, personally, have nothing wrong with pirates and nauticalness. And, if we make Eldarin Japanese and Dwarves steampunkish, that means we get Cowboys, Ninjas, Robots, and Pirates in the same setting, and I don't think we can really do much better than that.

That covers some niches for most characters, but that still means we need a niche for berserkers (though I guess some could eaisly be pirates). I think we should avoid nordic or celtic barbarians; they're just too cliche. How about sophistimucated berserkers? Sure they fly into a bloody battlelust, but that doesn't have to mean that they lack class.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-19, 12:38 PM
Mwa...
http://www.otaku-j.jp/jpmovie/anime2/ghibli/hawl.jpg



That covers some niches for most characters, but that still means we need a niche for berserkers (though I guess some could eaisly be pirates). I think we should avoid nordic or celtic barbarians; they're just too cliche. How about sophistimucated berserkers? Sure they fly into a bloody battlelust, but that doesn't have to mean that they lack class.

Doesn't work. A race of Conan's is too close to a race of Marty Stus, as not everyone must be "TEH KIKAZZORZ WARRI0RZ!"

That said, if you want to try making them, I suggest Bugbears.

chiasaur11
2008-06-19, 03:17 PM
Doesn't work. A race of Conan's is too close to a race of Marty Stus, as not everyone must be "TEH KIKAZZORZ WARRI0RZ!"

That said, if you want to try making them, I suggest Bugbears.

Maybe they could be like Beserker from 8bit. You know, alternating between crush-kill-destroy and wearing monacles while eating scones with their tea.

horngeek
2008-06-19, 05:23 PM
For flying airships in that kind of setting, see the movie Stardust, specifically the flying pirate ship. Also a good model for the kind of pirates you want. Act nasty, but are really nice guy deep down.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-19, 05:46 PM
Maybe they could be like Beserker from 8bit. You know, alternating between crush-kill-destroy and wearing monacles while eating scones with their tea.

NO, PLEASE! Just imagine it. A WHOLE RACE of insane bloodlusty loonies? No way, that is both unbelievable AND clashes with the setting.

Horne: I've already got the idea. Basically, enormous wands of Fly functioning as generators powering up the ships. As for pirates, aren't pretty much ALL of the good pirates either like that?

Moff Chumley
2008-06-19, 07:07 PM
Slackers... I expect mega posts! Progress! :smallwink:

So, after I settle in a bit (just got in after a pretty chaotic party that involved shooting glasses with a 500 fps airsoft sniper. :smallamused:) I'll do a dwarfy megapost. Any advice or suggestions have about thirty minutes to work their way in.

tsuuga
2008-06-19, 09:12 PM
500 fps airsoft sniper.
... 500 Frames Per Second?:smallwink: sounds like fun!

I don't agree with the use of wands of fly for airships - It's hardly steampunk, and quite possible without them.

Nordic barbarians are cliche? ... Your standard fantasy barbarian is Native American, and maybe has a Norse name or Norse god. Nordic bugbears is a concept that appeals to me. They've got their own civilization, but their god has given them free reign to take other's stuff, and they make use of it. But honestly... the setting doesn't need barbarians. There's not even a class to attempt to mechanically support =P

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-19, 09:17 PM
The setting doesn't need barbarians. There's not even a class to attempt to mechanically support =P

:smallamused:

Wanna place bets on the time it takes me to get it down pat with some help?

Moff Chumley
2008-06-19, 09:48 PM
...
I lied. No megapost for you. I can't think of anything decent, and I'm going on vacation tomorrow morning. :smallfrown: I shall return in a week, and I expect you guys to keep this world alive. :annoyed:

Now if you'll exuse me, I have to go wrangle a pair of guinea pigs...

DIRE GUINEA PIGS! Yes...

tsuuga
2008-06-19, 09:56 PM
Wanna place bets on the time it takes me to get it down pat with some help?

I've got 17 cents that says "Four hours".

chiasaur11
2008-06-22, 09:55 PM
So, we gonna have warforged?

tsuuga
2008-06-22, 11:27 PM
So, we gonna have warforged?

Preliminarily... I don't think so. They're kind of a cruel concept. Making war-robots so real people don't have to die? Sure. Making sentient war robots so real people don't have to die? Sadistic.

In any case, being so steampunkish, they'll probably be with the dwarves - and Moff Chumley called dibs =P
[/LIST]

chiasaur11
2008-06-23, 12:41 PM
Preliminarily... I don't think so. They're kind of a cruel concept. Making war-robots so real people don't have to die? Sure. Making sentient war robots so real people don't have to die? Sadistic.

In any case, being so steampunkish, they'll probably be with the dwarves - and Moff Chumley called dibs =P
[/LIST]

Yeah, probably true.
I mean, even if they were made for something else, in large numbers they'd kinda be slaves which doesn't really fit the upbeat theme.

On the other hand, Dinosaurs do. We need Dinosaurs in the new world.

vegetalss4
2008-06-24, 10:54 AM
we could have warforged not as slaves or soldiers but as something like the Elan. you know some people transform into another creature in order to gain immortallity, just using technomancy (meaning magical technology) instead of psionics.
also i second the dinosuars

chiasaur11
2008-06-24, 11:52 AM
we could have warforged not as slaves or soldiers but as something like the Elan. you know some people transform into another creature in order to gain immortallity, just using technomancy (meaning magical technology) instead of psionics.
also i second the dinosuars

Maybe, maybe.
Hey, what about a kind of non-evil Necron?
You know, some ancient being, long forgotten by man, saved a pre-human civilisation in metal shells in caves throughout the world, who are slowly awaking to productively join society...
Not neccesarily a great idea, but it is technically an idea.

So, we decided on the gods of the setting? Because if we could include Pun-Pun as a Kobold god of noninterference...

Tormsskull
2008-06-24, 11:56 AM
Hey guys,

I have a really hard time designing things with so many hands in the pot, but I like the idea of this project. I'd be happy to design a small chunk of the world, or perhaps a isolated city or an underwater civilization, or some other type of cut-off-from-the-rest-of-the-world type of group, if you guys need it.

Zeta Kai
2008-06-24, 01:26 PM
1) Pun-Pun is not a valid build (if he ever was) in 4E rules. If you really want him around as a Kobold patron god, perhaps some tale could be woven about him coming from "the World that Was" in a time before "the World that Is" or some other such cryptic mysticism.

2) I like the Warforged, & seeing as they are now in 4E, I say we throw them into the mix. Their fluff origins, though, are distastfully dark, so I propose the following change to their backstory:

The Com-Bots (Combat Robots), now known as the Warforged, were originally created by the dwarves as non-sentient war machines, but the war never came. In the ensuing peace, the dwarves sought ways to get some use out of their substancial resource investments, so they put the former com-bots to works in the mines & warrens. They tirelessly toiled in the darkness, until something happened. One by one, they stopped their work & emerged from the mines, confused & without direction. The dwarves, almost as confused as the com-bots themselves, nevertheless respected their newfound intelligence & took them in. The two races now work to learn from one another, as well as teach the world what can be accomplished when they work together.

3) So far we seem to have a setting full of exploration & discovery, populated with steampunk, cowboy explorers, jolly pirates, jollier Vikings, & probably dinosaurs (who doesn't love dinosaurs?). So far, so good, I don't see why we can't integrate all of this into a cohesive campaign world. It's a big place, with plenty of room for diversity. But I think we should focus on fleshing out what we've got, & put a moratorium on new additions, at least until we have a handle on the elements that are already here. From an organizational standpoint, we risk critical dilution of the project as a whole with each new major addition of material. We should contrate on the key elements, & only add other elements once we have the core concepts down pat. That way we can guarantee a sensible fit for all implemented ideas.

4) Airships make exploration far too easy, & they feel far too high-tech. They should either be eliminated entirely, or (for those who just can't let things go) they should nerfed 8 ways to hell. Ceiling altitudes, prohibitively expensive/heavy fuel, engines prone to explosion, etc. I'm not saying that they can't work at all, but they should be extremely limited in utility & scope, otherwise, the first core concept is endangered before we begin.

5) Some people have mentioned that they would like a more formal name for the project. As such, I have a few ideas:

Gears & Guides. This emphasizes two core concepts: the steampunk flavor & the exploration angle, as the explorers from the New Empire colonies will need guides to find their way. Also, I like the abbreviation (G&G).
Maps & Mystery. Another alliterative title (M&M), this one focusing solely on the explorers-of-the-unknown idea.
Coasts & Colonies. Not my favorite, but it is serviceable, has more alliteration (C&C), & plays up the slightly nautical bent this project has acquired.

6) I propose that for structure purposes, we allow members to claim certain aspects of the campaign for themselves, such as Moff Chumley taking control of the dwarves (although the warforged probably should have their own person). Everybody lay claim to a race, group, or other setting aspect, such as:

Elves
Warforged
Eladrin
Tieflings
Halflings
Dragonborn
The Western Empire
The New Empire Colonies
The Jolly Pirates
The "Vikings"
Dinosaurs
Mysteries & the Unknown
Steam-Tech

Multiple people can work together on one aspect, as long as they agree to work together. Who ever is left over, or doesn't want to work on specifics, can work on the Integration Team. The Integrators can take the elements created by the Aspect Teams & wedge them into the world, connecting them & embellishing as necessary. The Integrators should have oversight of the material coming out of the Aspect Teams, but only insomuch as is necessary to maintain a coherent world (for instance, if an aspect team started saying that the Teiflings explored the New Continent thousands of years ago, & they have detailed maps of the whole land, they would have to be overridden by the Integrators, lest they trample over the Mystery team). Any volunteers?

chiasaur11
2008-06-24, 03:03 PM
1) Pun-Pun is not a valid build (if he ever was) in 4E rules. If you really want him around as a Kobold patron god, perhaps some tale could be woven about him coming from "the World that Was" in a time before "the World that Is" or some other such cryptic mysticism.

2) I like the Warforged, & seeing as they are now in 4E, I say we throw them into the mix. Their fluff origins, though, are distastfully dark, so I propose the following change to their backstory:

The Com-Bots (Combat Robots), now known as the Warforged, were originally created by the dwarves as non-sentient war machines, but the war never came. In the ensuing peace, the dwarves sought ways to get some use out of their substancial resource investments, so they put the former com-bots to works in the mines & warrens. They tirelessly toiled in the darkness, until something happened. One by one, they stopped their work & emerged from the mines, confused & without direction. The dwarves, almost as confused as the com-bots themselves, nevertheless respected their newfound intelligence & took them in. The two races now work to learn from one another, as well as teach the world what can be accomplished when they work together.

3) So far we seem to have a setting full of exploration & discovery, populated with steampunk, cowboy explorers, jolly pirates, jollier Vikings, & probably dinosaurs (who doesn't love dinosaurs?). So far, so good, I don't see why we can't integrate all of this into a cohesive campaign world. It's a big place, with plenty of room for diversity. But I think we should focus on fleshing out what we've got, & put a moratorium on new additions, at least until we have a handle on the elements that are already here. From an organizational standpoint, we risk critical dilution of the project as a whole with each new major addition of material. We should contrate on the key elements, & only add other elements once we have the core concepts down pat. That way we can guarantee a sensible fit for all implemented ideas.

4) Airships make exploration far too easy, & they feel far too high-tech. They should either be eliminated entirely, or (for those who just can't let things go) they should nerfed 8 ways to hell. Ceiling altitudes, prohibitively expensive/heavy fuel, engines prone to explosion, etc. I'm not saying that they can't work at all, but they should be extremely limited in utility & scope, otherwise, the first core concept is endangered before we begin.

5) Some people have mentioned that they would like a more formal name for the project. As such, I have a few ideas:

Gears & Guides. This emphasizes two core concepts: the steampunk flavor & the exploration angle, as the explorers from the New Empire colonies will need guides to find their way. Also, I like the abbreviation (G&G).
Maps & Mystery. Another alliterative title (M&M), this one focusing solely on the explorers-of-the-unknown idea.
Coasts & Colonies. Not my favorite, but it is serviceable, has more alliteration (C&C), & plays up the slightly nautical bent this project has acquired.

6) I propose that for structure purposes, we allow members to claim certain aspects of the campaign for themselves, such as Moff Chumley taking control of the dwarves (although the warforged probably should have their own person). Everybody lay claim to a race, group, or other setting aspect, such as:

Elves
Warforged
Eladrin
Tieflings
Halflings
Dragonborn
The Western Empire
The New Empire Colonies
The Jolly Pirates
The "Vikings"
Dinosaurs
Mysteries & the Unknown
Steam-Tech

Multiple people can work together on one aspect, as long as they agree to work together. Who ever is left over, or doesn't want to work on specifics, can work on the Integration Team. The Integrators can take the elements created by the Aspect Teams & wedge them into the world, connecting them & embellishing as necessary. The Integrators should have oversight of the material coming out of the Aspect Teams, but only insomuch as is necessary to maintain a coherent world (for instance, if an aspect team started saying that the Teiflings explored the New Continent thousands of years ago, & they have detailed maps of the whole land, they would have to be overridden by the Integrators, lest they trample over the Mystery team). Any volunteers?

Nice Warforged. Upbeat.
I was thinking Pun-Pun as a minor gag. As the guy in charge of non-interference, his total lack of actions, evidence, or historical records PROVES he exists, because if he didn't, he would have interfered by now.

The moratorium makes sense. We already got Dinos, Ninjas, pirates, vikings, dragon men, cowboys, and robots, maybe even airships. Anything else is gravy. On a bacon sandwitch. With Ice cream instead of bread.

I'm not too good at the homebrew stuff, but I might be able to do a couple of dinosaur things.

TheStagesmith
2008-06-24, 10:34 PM
*lurk, lurk, lurk*

!!

*/lurk*

Me likee. Me much likee.

Now, I've never actually homebrewed something (or at least, nothing I've put up on these boards), but I've lurked here for a very, very long time (on my friend's computer before I made an account). I like this idea a lot, and would love to help out in any way possible. Due to a busy schedule I'm not quite sure I'd be able to take on an entire section myself, but I would love to try my hand at
Quality Control
Fixing Your Terrible Mistakes
Integration! :biggrin:

Also, this thread is going to get mighty small rather quickly. Anyone know if (once we get this thing well off the ground and at an altitude where one can safely use portable electronic devices) we can somehow get a subforum for this project? Or can we at least figure out a system so we don't have bits and pieces from every far corner of the project thrown into one spot?

ZeraiDaimah
2008-06-25, 05:35 PM
*/lurk* seconded

Another long-time lurker that can't let this go :smallbiggrin: after all, its got steampunk and dinosaurs, what's not to like?

Hmm, right now i don't wan't to get into one of the aspects (maybe the tech, after the dwarves are more detailed), now for the points.

- Warforged: Well, it's better if they become intelligent without a war, but i think they could be some kind of mechanics that the dwarves designed to go to dangerous places (maybe with different resistances or something? just throwing ideas)

- Halflings: I remember something about halflings being a nomad race, that didn't stay long at most places, since we've got to have dinosaurs (because they're awesome) what do you think about the halflings using the bigger dinosaurs as homes and the smaller ones as mounts? this also gives a justification for being nomadic (most big dinosaurs need to eat a lot of green)

- Citybarges: This idea was on the first posts on the thread and i love it :smallbiggrin: i think the best way would be a ship (or more!) like an oil tanker, with the colony for the other continent already built in it, with a mage tower as the bridge, they send the ship, search for a suitable location (Quest!!, Moff Chumley idea) and then ram the ship there, beaching it and with the city already built.

Stagesmith, i suppose the idea is to get it to grow enought so it gets a subforum like ToB, but for that we need more people and more posts, so post, post, post!:wink:

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-06-25, 07:48 PM
I'm stealing elves. I've always liked elves. My favourite elves were in the Land of Green, but considering they were cannabilistic savages, I don't think that'll work here.

So instead I'll make them into, as Azerion suggested, the 'noble savage'.

tsuuga
2008-06-25, 11:58 PM
Too tired to respond to posts at the moment, but be warned! I shall return tomorrow morning, armed with caffeine.

Here's the (scant :smallannoyed:) progress on the map - hope the archipelago is satisfactory.

Updated Map (http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/5845/updatedmapcopyej0.png)

I'd like to put it in spoiler tags, but, well... it's 380k and breaks tables at a whopping 2000 pixels square =P

Oh, and for setting name - I favor Manifest Destiny.

tsuuga
2008-06-26, 08:13 AM
Com-Bots
I like the new warforged fluff :smallbiggrin:

Airships make exploration far too easy
I agree that airships shouldn't be a big part of exploring the new world, but I think airships work out OK with a realistically limited range. I redid my calculations on a coal-powered airship's range would be more like 200-250 miles. Since you can't just land and go mine some more coal, an airship is really only going to get you 100 miles from a city, and in two hours instead of two days. Maybe some ill-advised entrepreneurs have brought over an airship expecting to hire it out, but they're sure not seeing much business. Even in the old world, airships are primarily either aerial battleships, transports of the rich, and express mail carriers.

That said, no airships is my preference as well.


Some people have mentioned that they would like a more formal name for the project

As for a setting title, I rather like Manifest Destiny. Of course, it just had to be used as an excuse for kicking out the natives... grumble grumble.

Mysteries & the Unknown
I definitely want in on this one. I think I'd also like to work on the warforged background.

. . .can we at least figure out a system so we don't have bits and pieces from every far corner of the project thrown into one spot?
Back when I was working on Cataclysm of Green, we discussed topics in the body of each post, and used spoiler tags to indicate a section of completed material. Lord Tataraus would collect the spoilered info and repost it in the second post as a kind of index. It worked out pretty well.

Citybarges: This idea was on the first posts on the thread and i love it :smallbiggrin: i think the best way would be a ship (or more!) like an oil tanker, with the colony for the other continent already built in it, with a mage tower as the bridge, they send the ship, search for a suitable location (Quest!!, Moff Chumley idea) and then ram the ship there, beaching it and with the city already built.
City-barges still bother me. It's a colossal waste of effort. A Nimitz-class aircraft carrier has a deck area of only 4.5 acres - 70% of a new york city block. , or 4 football fields (excluding endzones). The largest ship ever, the Knock Nevis, has a deck area of 7.8 acres. Ships that large cost billions of dollars - and tend to run on nuclear power. Let's stick with wind-powered, wooden ships, and just build some houses when we get there, eh?
On the other hand, I do like the idea of a pirate city of floating ships moored together.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-06-26, 11:17 AM
For the map, have we decided which continent is which yet?

I am favouring the Eastern continent and archipelago as being the New World, with the Southwestern continent being the "Old World Imperial".

tsuuga
2008-06-26, 11:20 AM
That was indeed my intention :smallcool:

Moff Chumley
2008-06-26, 12:16 PM
Don't ya just hate internet cafes? :smallannoyed:

When I get home, I'll be more able to read and comment on all of your ideas, but in the mean time, I have to say, Manifest Destiny is not high on list as far as names go. I'd prefer something more like Gears & Guides, but lests find something else for Guides, 'kay? I like the warforged idea, but I don't think they should be so closely tied to dwarves. I'll think of something for that later... Also, a feat or so would be in order to duplicate the Gnome Artificer class, in my oppinion, or beter yet, a non-magical varient on rituals. I think that that would acomplish the steam tech thing well and simply. Thanks for keeping this thread afloat while I was gone, by the way.

horngeek
2008-06-26, 05:35 PM
It is possible to have airships where there is an air of exploration, probably where there is not enough fuel and/or somone keeps shooting the airships down.

They would be good for this kind of setting.

tsuuga
2008-06-26, 06:05 PM
Manifest Destiny is not high on list as far as names go. I'd prefer something more like Gears & Guides, but lests find something else for Guides, 'kay?
Heh. Names of the X1&X2 format always bother me... Reminds me of Mazes and Monsters, and pretty much every TV show, book, and movie that wanted to reference D&D.


I like the warforged idea, but I don't think they should be so closely tied to dwarves.
Built by dwarves, yes. Tied to dwarves, not so much. Warforged height: 6'0"-6'6". Dwarf height: 4'3"-4'9". Ceilings will be an issue =P.

Warforged Fluff

The Com-Bots (Combat Robots), now known as the Warforged, were originally created by the dwarves as non-sentient war machines, but the war never came. In the ensuing peace, the dwarves sought ways to get some use out of their substantial resource investments, so they put the former com-bots to works in the mines & warrens. They tirelessly toiled in the darkness, until something happened. One by one, they stopped their work & emerged from the mines, confused & without direction.
When the dwarves realized what was happening, hospices were set up outside the major warforged-operated mines. There, the dwarves teach the newly-awakened automatons about the world, install voiceboxes, and replace weapons with hands. (The warforged are capable of understanding speech, but were not given voices. Instead, they have simple whistles, and communicate among themselves with a binary code of staccato chirps. The whistle is easily heard over battlefield noise. In the event that it's whistle is heavily damaged or stealth is required, a warforged can communicate by tapping its armor plating. The whistle is replaced by the voicebox, but warforged automatically get Warforged as a starting language.)
Having seen little but the inside of a warehouse, and then the inside of a mine, warforged are eager to see the world, thus, most warforged set out on their own after about a month of instruction. Most warforged do settle down eventually, resulting in a fairly even distribution.

Newly awakened warforged refer to themselves by the ID stamped on their breastplate (generally an indicator of their position in a formation, for instance 3I72 {Third infantry, seventh rank, position two}), and are advised not to choose a final name until they know themselves better. However, used to being tools, most name themselves after tools (Hammer, Adze) or the profession they choose to pursue (Farmer, Smith, Tinker). The others tend to name themselves after someone they admire.

Though Warforged have been awakening for approximated a decade, they are still an uncommon sight. More than half have not yet awoken, and are still working in the mines - neither dwarves nor warforged are sure what causes them to awaken, and aren't going to change anything. A few warforged have declined to go out into the world, and instead spend most of their time down in the mines, to guide the newly awakened out into the light. Many of the first to awaken continued to mine for months or perhaps even years, simply because an alternative didn't occur to them.

chiasaur11
2008-06-27, 12:14 PM
So, Dinosaurs.
Big ones should be new world exclusive, as nothing says "wow" like your sauropods. Maybe some bones and tiny little dinosaurs (you know, compsognathus sized critters, one or two pterasaurs)(I know they're not dinosaurs, but they fit the same niche) so the new world has creatures long dead and passed into legend. Also, we could have more herbavores near the coast at first, and your big threats (T Rex, Utahraptors) in the unexplored central jungles as tales told by adventurers.

In fact, if we have most of the bigger threats near the center of the new world, we have a naturally scaling encounter system, and the fun of shopkeepers, ect. thinking adventurers are exaggerating in the style of age of exploration sailors. Which would sometimes happen.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-28, 09:15 PM
Basic Assumptions of the Positive Setting

The World Is a Fantastic Place
Hell yes. Perhaps even more so that in default, fantastical and steam punk elements are large parts of everyday life.

The World Is Ancient
Not really. Possibly twenty thousand years old, recorded history extends back about three millennia for most races. (Elves migrated in from the far realm at about this time, or something like that, so we can get around the age problem. Perhaps they came from Greyhawk? :smalltongue: )

The World Is Mysterious
The settled world, for the most part, is not at all mysterious. Most of the old world is mapped out thoroughly, expect for the domains of the hostile races. However, the new world is completely unexplored.

Monsters Are Everywhere
Some types of monsters are domesticated, but there are very few truly dangerous beasts in the old world. However, there have been sightings of huge monstrosities in the new world...

Adventurers Are Exceptional
For the most part, yes.

The Civilized Races Band Together
Yes. There are plenty of integrated settlements throughout the world.

Magic Is Not Everyday, but it Is Natural
As written, but the presence of steam punk adds a second element to this.

Gods and Primordials Shaped the World
Lets stick with the standard cosmology.

Gods Are Distant
I have a few ideas here that I'd like to only reveal when I finish... >.> <.<

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-06-28, 09:33 PM
I just realised that I can't do any crunch, because I don't have 4e yet...

EvilElitest
2008-06-29, 09:02 AM
Lastly, we need to make sure that this setting is truly positive. Sure, there will be danger, conflict & even the occasional BBEG. But this should be a world full of excitement, wonder & upbeat adventure. Famine, cannibalism, genocide, racism, slavery, rape, torture, & other such atrocities should be rare & abhorent, sickeningly distasteful to all sentient peoples. Even the most blood-thirsty orcish warlord would rather just bash someone's skull & avoid the messy business of doing something more sadistic to his captives. If this is going to be a positive campaign setting, we need to design both crunch & fluff to maintain that theme of our setting.
Meh, i don't think that is a good direction for a world design, i mean all of those things happen all the time in the real world (except cannibalism). I think a better approach to the whole positive thing would be to set it in the Grand old age


you know how in many games there are references to the grand old lost past golden age where everything was great, magic was powerful and the empire that is currently lost was at its peak. People are well fed and things are going well
from
EE

Moff Chumley
2008-06-29, 11:14 AM
you know how in many games there are references to the grand old lost past golden age where everything was great, magic was powerful and the empire that is currently lost was at its peak. People are well fed and things are going well
from
EE

Yes, um, that's what this is.

Szilard
2008-06-29, 11:15 AM
So, Pirates, steampunk and the unknown? I'm in.:smalltongue:

Zeta Kai
2008-06-29, 12:00 PM
I think a better approach to the whole positive thing would be to set it in the Grand old age

you know how in many games there are references to the grand old lost past golden age where everything was great, magic was powerful and the empire that is currently lost was at its peak. People are well fed and things are going well

Yeah, that's essentially what we have going on in the Western Empire. The New Imperial colonies are half a world away, on a vast new frontier, but the Western Empire is a fully built-up magical nation at its height, with neighboring states of near-equal power.

tsuuga
2008-06-29, 01:08 PM
Completed coastal maps. Upcoming: Mountains and rivers.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/7619/mapfancyns2.th.png (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapfancyns2.png)
Fancy version

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6491/mapreadableea0.th.png (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapreadableea0.png)
Contrast

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6568/mapprintfriendlyes1.th.png (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapprintfriendlyes1.png)
Printer Friendly

Moff Chumley
2008-06-29, 01:42 PM
Shweet. What software are you using?

EvilElitest
2008-06-29, 05:18 PM
Yeah, that's essentially what we have going on in the Western Empire. The New Imperial colonies are half a world away, on a vast new frontier, but the Western Empire is a fully built-up magical nation at its height, with neighboring states of near-equal power.

alright, didn't read the rest of the thread, through you've apperently added steam punk. I"m just saying that the cruelties that you mentioned shouldn't be somehow impossible, just civilization is at its height.
from
EE

Tough_Tonka
2008-06-29, 08:10 PM
Western Steampunk = :smallcool:

Pirates in the Positive Campaign = :smalleek:

A positive setting doesn't translate to a perfect world, just one were things are getting better.

tsuuga
2008-06-29, 08:55 PM
Shweet. What software are you using?

I'm using GIMP.

first, I generated a very large flatland pattern (Xtns > pattern > flatland).
Then I used the magic wand tool to select regions of land or water, and filled them with black on a new layer, and used those blobs to assemble rough continents. Then, I used those shapes to generate coastlines using this method (http://forum.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=874). And finally, this (http://www.santharia.com/workshop/maps_2.htm) is the method I use to edge continents, and add in forests/rivers/towns/mountains.


Why do people assume we're generating a setting to match the thread title; when the thread title is intended to describe the setting? :smallyuk:

Tough_Tonka
2008-06-29, 09:13 PM
Completed coastal maps. Upcoming: Mountains and rivers.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/7619/mapfancyns2.th.png (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapfancyns2.png)
Fancy version

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6491/mapreadableea0.th.png (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapreadableea0.png)
Contrast

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6568/mapprintfriendlyes1.th.png (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapprintfriendlyes1.png)
Printer Friendly

Super rad maps, any idea about which continent is which? I'd recommend the top left continent as the European continent and bottom left one as the Asia/Africa equivalent. Then of course, the big right continent representing the new world.

tsuuga
2008-06-29, 09:20 PM
The Eastern continent is, indeed the new world. As for the western continents, it could go either way.

:smallredface: about the compliments on the maps, by the way

EDIT: Oh, and:
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8229/gearsandguidesrx4.png (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82861), if Gears and Guides does end up being the name.

Zeta Kai
2008-06-29, 09:28 PM
alright, didn't read the rest of the thread, through you've apperently added steam punk. I"m just saying that the cruelties that you mentioned shouldn't be somehow impossible, just civilization is at its height.
from
EE

I'm not saying that despicable acts should be impossible by any means. What I'm suggesting (& I'm pretty sure I've stated this before) is that this setting should emphasize, above practically all else, that heinous acts are rare & aberrant in the extreme. They should not be the norm, as they are in some darker settings (I'm not naming names), & PCs in this setting should be discouraged via crunch & fluff from committing such crimes.

I've also said before that I'm not against pirates completely, but historically pirates were not the bright & cheerful Disney version we've come to know & love (or loathe, as I'm sure some do). If they're gonna be in this setting though, those pirates are going to have to behave better, & should therefore be closer to the Pirates of the Caribbean than the real thing.

The same goes for Vikings, ninjas, cowboys, dinosaurs, & all the other crazy stuff people wanna throw in this setting. I'm not saying any of it is bad at all; I like each & every one of those things as much as the next person (perhaps even more so). But the name of this place (so far, anyway) is The Positive Setting, & we have to abide by that. Populating the place with marauding rapists, as "cool" as that may be, is anathema to the core concept, & therefore cannot occur, lest we poison & adulterate that which we are trying to create. To that end, we must be careful to emphasize the positive aspects of a group such as pirates, while explicitly downplaying the negative characteristics of said group.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-29, 10:12 PM
Hear hear. Possibly add a disclaimer like that to the first post, to avoid mistakes like EE's.
Before I go into detail about Dwarves, here's an overview so people can correct any of my more stupid mistakes.

The Dwarven people dwell within the gigantic mountains of the Southern Continent. Two hundred years ago, a council was held at the largest mountain of them all, [insert name hear]. The leader of every Dwarven mountain was in attendance, and with Human and Halfling ambassadors on the scene, the Dwarves founded a huge, race-spanning alliance from the enrichment, mostly literally, of the Dwarven people. To this end, every Dwarven mountain joined the [insert name here], a group that to outsiders, represented a cooperation in every sense. Since then, their have been two types of Dwarves: the workers and the beauracrats.

Sorry for the abrupt stop, but I'll finish tomorrow. A major annoyance has come up that I have to deal with...

Tough_Tonka
2008-06-29, 10:43 PM
Its probably too soon to work on any definite time line for this campaign but I have some ideas. Feel free to take what you like and toss what you don't.

Note: these assume the map follows my suggestions in the previous post.

Era I:The Empires of Men:

This era is a rough equivalent of the Greco-Roman period of history.

On the north west-continent empire from the southern coast rises to claim the continent (similar to the Roman Empire). This empire has a very good mastery of magic and a pretty good mastery of technology. Around the same an empire forms in the south-west (similar to the China) in the northern desserts of the south continent there exist a group of simi-allied city states and kingdoms (Middle-East/India).

For a reason lost to history the empire comes to war with some of the coastal city states in the dessert of the southern continent. For a period of a few hundred years the north empire and the dessert kingdoms are satisfied with this arrangement, until the north empire start to expand its territories into neighboring inland kingdoms. Eventually the kingdoms untie to stop this invasion and enlist the aid of the China-like empire, which fears this expansion might reach them in time. The dessert kingdoms are reclaimed and a few forces are even sent to the north continent. The strain of this war leads to the collapse of the north continent's empire. Leading to the second era.

Era II: The Dark Ages

On the north continent the old empire breaks into a vast number of city-states and feudal kingdoms. The only organization that really keeps the majority of its power is the church of the empire. While the church even grows in power, the arcane institutions evens of the old empire eventually fall into ruin. Some of the southern ports of the continent are even conquered by the dessert kingdoms.

On the south continent, without the fear of a common enemy, the alliance of dessert kingdoms eventually breaks apart. Eventually one of the larger dessert kingdoms starts to conquer the weaker states until it rules the dessert coast. The china like empire changes very little over this period.

Era III: The Current Age

In the north continent this era is marked by four events.

The rise of nations: about 2 to 4 of the feudal kingdoms eventually expanded to ruling most of the continent. While there are still dozens of small kingdoms pretty much every one of them is allied with one of these big nations. The southern nation have even reclaimed the lost territories from the dessert empire.

The Political decline of the Church: With the rise of powerful nations the church no longer controls the continent. It has become a separate organization form most of the nations (perhaps it still has dominance over one of them).

The rediscovery of Technology and Magic: While most of the knowledge of old empire has been lost the nations of the north continent are relearning the arcane arts. They have even made advancements in technology that rival and in some areas surpass the old empire.

The discovery of the New World: None of the nations on the continent are any stronger than each other and none of them really desire to see war on the continent. With the discovery of the new world these nations now have a golden opportunity to expand their influence. The church has also invested colonies in the new world.


All post some more of this time line latter if anyone likes it.

I'm not sure about races for these empires, but for the Oriental Empire I'd suggest using the Eladrin. The idea behind this empire is that it was one of the greatest forces of the first era and remains just as strong. However, through this time it has barely progressed in any field and is now starting to see the limits of there perfect timeless empire. Elves would be the equivalent of the Mongols in this setting. They'd live in steppes of the south continent, also during the war of empires elf mercenaries might have been sent to the north continent and decided to settle there.

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 01:14 AM
I would like to jump in and help out with this. If possible I would like to work on the Dragonborn, Halflings or Pirates if thats alright.:smallsmile:

Zeta Kai
2008-06-30, 08:31 AM
Here's my cartographic contribution (taken from Tsuuga's great efforts, & embellished extensively):
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/zetakai/PositiveSetting.jpg

Also, on another note, unless anyone wishes to voice an objection, I'd like to rename the project Gears & Guides. I will wait 48 hours, to allow for people to respond. Other options have been discussed already, but I'm still open to suggestions.

Lastly, once the name is chosen, I plan to request that this thread be expanded into a sub-forum of it's own, like Tears of Blood. Wish us luck.

Szilard
2008-06-30, 11:24 AM
I'm fine with Gears and Guides.:smallsmile:

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 11:48 AM
I like Gears & Guides too. I say we go with it.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-06-30, 12:02 PM
I'm fine with Gears and Guides.

Nice map, by the way.

I like most of Tonka's suggestions. That will give us 2 main empires, on different continents; the 'Europe', and the 'China' Empires. The New World is mostly unexplored, with 'Europe' having several colonies on the coast, and 'China' just starting a rival colony on the peninsula.
I feel that Elves should be the native allies of the 'Europe' empire, the only playable race from the New Continent.
Speaking of playable races on the New Continent, why would the races be there?

Humans: Conquest, Gold, basically the reasons why the Conquistadores came, except idealised.
Halflings: They roam, it's what they do.
Dwarves: Maybe brought with Human's, for the Human's benefit? I'm not so sure on this one...
Warforged: Search for enlightenment
Eladrin/'China': Attempt to equal the Human/Halfling/Dwarf Alliance.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-30, 12:12 PM
Gears and Guides, to me, isn't ideal. The Gears is fine, but I find Guides a bit misleading. Aren't the PCs trying to discover the new world for themselves? Also, I'd prefer something more along the lines of Ravenloft or Eberron, one where the name doesn't dictate what the setting is, but gives a vauge impression of it's character. I like Abraxas, which is Greek for mystical world; Arcus, which I just made up; Alteriel, which I don't know the meaning of at all, and Neve, which is Gaelic for radiance.

I like Tonka's idea, but lets replace Eladrin with Dragonborn, and fit the Eladrin in elsewhere in the southern continent.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-06-30, 12:38 PM
Dragonborn, knew I forgot something...

I think that Eladrin fit the 'China' mold perfectly, and Dragonborn can be fit more easily into the Steppe Peoples mold that Tonka has Elves.

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 01:13 PM
I disagree here. I think the Dragonborn fit the China mold very well while the Eladrin I think are more like the Steppe People or maybe something in the colonies. But thats just what I think.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-30, 01:32 PM
Any thoughts on my names?

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 01:45 PM
I like Abraxas. Maybe take that and a diffrent gears meaning or something and combine the two. Like take Zahnrad(german for gear) and Abraxas and make i dunno Zahnrabrax.

TheStagesmith
2008-06-30, 01:48 PM
Gears and Guides, to me, isn't ideal. The Gears is fine, but I find Guides a bit misleading. Aren't the PCs trying to discover the new world for themselves? Also, I'd prefer something more along the lines of Ravenloft or Eberron, one where the name doesn't dictate what the setting is, but gives a vauge impression of it's character. I like Abraxas, which is Greek for mystical world; Arcus, which I just made up; Alteriel, which I don't know the meaning of at all, and Neve, which is Gaelic for radiance. <snippage>

I like this idea, but just one word like that seems a bit... bland, maybe? The gears bit is nice, since it not only gives an idea of the steampunk-ish nature of the setting, it also seems (to me, at least) to carry the connotation that something is being driven or moved forward. I think that "Gears of Neve" would be a good name for this setting. Any thoughts?

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 01:53 PM
I kinda like it. Maybe Gears of Abraxas would work better because it has gears and the mysterious world which this is what is seems to becoming.

TheStagesmith
2008-06-30, 01:59 PM
I kinda like it. Maybe Gears of Abraxas would work better because it has gears and the mysterious world which this is what is seems to becoming.

I like that, too. I never pay much attention to foreign-language names for stuff, since the majority of people out there don't know all those languages. So I just went with what I thought sounded coolest. But yeah, I like that, too. :smallsmile:

Moff Chumley
2008-06-30, 02:16 PM
I like Gears of Neve, personally. Kind of best of both worlds. Maybe we can call the new world Abraxas?

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 02:24 PM
So the actual world would be Abraxas and the thread name/ the setting would be Gears of Neve. :smallbiggrin:

Moff Chumley
2008-06-30, 02:57 PM
Right. How does that sound?

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 03:05 PM
This sounds good to me. Any objections?

tsuuga
2008-06-30, 03:39 PM
Gears of Neve gets my vote, too.

Szilard
2008-06-30, 03:50 PM
I'm switching my vote to Gears of Neve.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-30, 04:05 PM
Cool. Lets wait for Zeta to weigh in and then get a banner. Also, if the mods don't let us have a subforum here, maybe we can get one off site.

tsuuga
2008-06-30, 04:28 PM
Here's my cartographic contribution (taken from Tsuuga's great efforts, & embellished extensively)Holy crap, that's pretty.

And some banners. Take your pick.
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7079/gon1dl1.pnghttp://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1396/gon2ic6.pnghttp://img397.imageshack.us/img397/8336/gon3va9.pnghttp://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1635/gon4hl5.png

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 04:34 PM
I like the 3rd one.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-30, 04:54 PM
I'm taking the fourth one. However, I don't love the background. I'm not complaining, but if there are any other good backgrounds you can think up, could you show us? Thanks a lot, though.

Szilard
2008-06-30, 04:57 PM
I'm likeing the fourth one, though I may just make my own banner.

Zeta Kai
2008-06-30, 05:30 PM
Cool. Lets wait for Zeta to weigh in and then get a banner. Also, if the mods don't let us have a subforum here, maybe we can get one off site.

Ol' Zeta has no more clout than a Pixie here in our egalitarian society, but I do agree that Gears of Neve is a very nice name. It gets my vote. I will wait 24 hours for more feedback, & if there are no major objections, I'll change the thread's name & apply for sub-forum status.

Tsuuga, I couldn't have done the map without your layout. Great job. Also, I like the 3rd banner best.

I like the name Abraxas, & I think it'll a great name for the New World continent. I'd like suggestions for names for the other continents.

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 05:36 PM
Maybe Zahnrad for the Old world because its more of the gears. Or maybe something along those lines I think. Suggestions?

ZeraiDaimah
2008-06-30, 05:40 PM
i like Abraxas for the new world, i also think that the guides part isn't really adecuate (after all, WE are the explorers) but i don't know about neve..., well, i don't really mind :smallredface:.

I like the G of the 3-4, but do we need a subtitle? maybe i look to much to gaming websites, but i'm really tired of giving subtitles to everything, also, we would get a cleaner (or shorter) banner.

Let's see, we've got to make some division for creating (at least when (not if, when:smallwink:) we get the sub-forum, i recommend after getting the races at every place, we separate in three sections, one for the northern continent, one for the southern and one for the new world, more or less like the OOTS gods (and no snarl creating!:smalleek:).

Also, we need a way of explaining the discovery of the new world, in the real world was the search of a better route to india, but i don't think the maps will be good for this here (sorry tsuuga, i still think the maps are the best ^^) so, what motive made ships go in THAT direction?

Tonka, since the technology of the first age is actually lost, what about giving it to the "chinese" empire, so we get a feeling of two different tech styles, one more oriental, with old and arcane (not magical!, simply obscure procedures) ideas, and the new, dwarf produced systems, with a more modern-eastern feeling.

Can't wait to see more of the setting ^^, also, as a PD, keep safe the maps tsuuga, we'll need to edit them when we make the close-by maps.

Szilard
2008-06-30, 05:54 PM
The new world continent will be called Bob named by the person who first saw this continent, or New Abraxas if they first found it.
Cookie for the referance.

Moff Chumley
2008-06-30, 05:56 PM
Only reason I said that is, as a major contributor to the project, I wanted your opinion. Woulda done the same for any other consistant contributor to the thread. It's nothing anti-pixie; I'm still a pixie in my mind... :smallcool:

Edit: Quadruple ninja, my comment was directed at Zeta.

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 06:02 PM
I think the reason they have just now found Abraxas was because internal struggle and lack of the technology to go that far was stopping them.

I like the idea of the southern continent having a arcana look at things while the north has the steampunk, com-bot stuff.

Szilard
2008-06-30, 06:29 PM
I still vote Bob for the new continent.:smalltongue:

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 07:16 PM
I think Abraxas is good for the New world, but we still need something for the Old world and south continent. Ideas?

chiasaur11
2008-06-30, 08:27 PM
The new world continent will be called Bob named by the person who first saw this continent, or New Abraxas if they first found it.
Cookie for the referance.

The Joss Whedon movie with the energy beings and cancelled playstation game?

Tough_Tonka
2008-06-30, 08:33 PM
My Votes for Gears of Neve

But I'd like to say I'd seriously think there should be more diversity in the Western Continent, having it ruled by a single empire just sounds kind of white bread. Also it would seriously limit the sense of scope of competition in this campaign if there was only two empires, a western and an oriental one, races to claim this new world.

I would suggest instead of using a Western Empire having a Western Alliance 3 or 4 nations. One might rule the southern coast and have a Mediterranean feel to it. One might be a cold northern kingdom similar to Russia. One or two might rule the central lands and have sort of France German rivalry between them.

In keeping with the positive nature of this campaign these nations would have formed a peaceful alliance in order to end the bloodshed of the previous dark age.

Each country might have its own system of government, one might be a kingdom, the other a theocracy and the other a magocracy. However, these nations are all ruled by a senate of representatives from each kingdom. The size and wealth of each country might determine the amount of representatives so its in each countries best interest to claim as much land for there nation.

Or instead of being ruled by a senate this alliance chooses an Over King or emperor from the nation with the greatest most resources or people every generation. At the beginning of the campaign it seems that the current Emperor is going to retire within the next few years so the race is on between these countries to see who can acquire to most resources form the new world.

What do you guys think?

tsuuga
2008-06-30, 08:40 PM
Moff: behold, a new sig image!
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3521/goncopyxu4.png (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82861)

Zerai: behold, a new sig image without a subtitle!
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6701/gonnowordscz3.png (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82861)

And the full and halfsize versions, in case you want that for some reason:
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7620/gonfullsizelk0.th.png (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gonfullsizelk0.png)http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/32/gonhalfsizenr1.th.png (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gonhalfsizenr1.png)

Zeta: :smallredface:

As for "why hasn't anyone gone out that way before", well... I'd like to re-suggest what I did earlier. Them's the hunting grounds of <Insert Huge Nasty Sea-Beast>, who was only recently slain by <Captain Ahab>, opening the way for ships.

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 08:44 PM
Yea that sounds like a pretty good idea. Im thinking the North is the alliance and the south is just one big kingdom something like china with maybe some nomads in there.

The North could have a the dwarf kingdom, human kingdom, and halfling nomads.

While the south is Dragonborn and Eladrin.

Something along those lines I think.

Also I like those new banners tsuuga.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-06-30, 09:06 PM
My take on the Old World Order:

There are two main groups: The Imperial Alliance, and the Principle League.

Do you see on the map where there's a semi-enclosed bay? That's where the Principle League resides, made up of around 15 city-states, each lead by a monarch who goes by the title of Prince. Originally simply a trading alliance between like states, they have now become almost completely joined together, in all matters, not only economic but military as well. Each Prince has a seat on the Council, where they decide on matters involving all of the states. Think a cross between the Italian city-states and the Hansean League. The Principle League is almost all human.

North of the Principle League is the Imperial Alliance, which is less loosely held together than the other. The Imperial Alliance is a military alliance, much like NATO is today. They are made up of 7 states. 2 are almost entirely human kingdoms, the furthest to the south, adjacent to the Principle League; it was their power that forced the Principle League into being. 2 more kingdoms are mostly human, but with a good amount of dwarven population. These are to the North and North/East, with a fully joint Human/dwarven kingdom to the East, ruled by 2 kings, one human one dwarven. The last 2 are Halfling 'kingdoms', in the loosest sense of the word, with no feudal system with land, but merely with fealty.

To the south, I'm not sure.

Someone can purdy up my map to make it fit Zeta's a bit more.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/Gwyn_ap_Nud/PoliticalMapGearsofNeve.jpg?t=1214878047

Edit1:Fixing Picture linky.
Edit2: I just noticed that Zeta's map doesn't have a mountain range where his description says it does. It says that a high mountain range is blocking passage further into the mainland, but no mountain range is on the map.

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 09:17 PM
Its more of a rough copy i guess than the final map.

Also I think the halflings shouldn't have a kingdom I think there nomads. Aren't they?

tsuuga
2008-06-30, 10:16 PM
It's no Zeta Kai treatment, but it is a bit prettier:
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/8820/politicalmapdj5.th.png (http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=politicalmapdj5.png)

Apeoflight: Even nomads claim territory. They may not live in one spot permanently, but most nomads return to the same spot from year to year.

GwynApNud: I believe it would be PrinciPAL league - a nation run by a prince is a principality :smalltongue:

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 10:35 PM
Ok I see your point and I like the map. Now we just need to figure out who lives in that south part.

Mmmmhhhh maybe the elves and eladrin and the south continent is the dragon born?

Recaiden
2008-06-30, 10:41 PM
Gears of Neve. I think that humans, dwarves, warforged, and dragonborn should live in the north, with eladrin and tieflings(? maybe) in the south, and halflings on both the western continents. Elves and any other races could be in the west, although i think some others should be in the south.

tsuuga
2008-06-30, 11:00 PM
I believe that at one time, there were empires of monstrous humanoids on both continents, in a tenuous peace with the inhabitants.

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 11:27 PM
You mean like giants? then what happened to them?

tsuuga
2008-06-30, 11:31 PM
Goblinoids and Kobolds, I believe... Giants weren't mentioned (or at least not spelled correctly). As to what happened to them... well... I've had my nose buried in maps, don't ask me :smalltongue:

ApeofLight
2008-06-30, 11:45 PM
I don't remember anything about giants but I think there was a mention of goblinoids and kobolds being some of the dominant species. I think it was in the southern continent. But I think we should have the Dragonborn as the dominant species there.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-01, 08:12 AM
That first map is just a preliminary version, something pretty to inspire commentary & bolster the troops. You're right, Gwyn, that mountain range needs to be added. Now that we've accomplished that, we'll need a breakdown of the geography the Gears of Neve world. I'm working on a higher-resolution version of the map, but without geography, I'm flying blind & making it up as I go along.

So any ideas about what mountain ranges, forests, rivers, etc are required & where they go would be appreciated. Keep in mind that the continent of Abraxas (the land of the New Imperial colonies) is completely unexplored, so anything beyond the mountains (which I still need to include) is completely unknown, so ideas should be concentrated on the Civilized World of the western continents.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-01, 09:29 AM
Alright, here are some new maps, sans clouds (PEACH):
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/zetakai/GearsofNeve7.jpg

And this one is labeled with preliminary racial distribution:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/zetakai/GearsofNeve8.jpg

I'm happy with the way this one turned out. I like the geography a lot more, & it has much more detail. Thanks again to Tsuuga for his cartographic contributions & great banner work.

If I don't here any major qualms with the name by the end of the day, then I will change the thread name to Gears of Neve: a 4E World-Building Project. Any suggestions for either the map or the name?

TheStagesmith
2008-07-01, 09:44 AM
In the words of a certain blond-haired desperado: Yay! I'm participating! :elan:

I have one question about the racial distribution: how are we justifying the presence of half-elves? Are we saying that maybe they are 'elves,' but not 'full' elves? It seems rather difficult to have half-elves when humans just recently discovered elves (even considering the relative rapidity of human reproduction).

EDIT: It also struck me that since this is a steampunk-ish world and the humans and dwarves are near it, the isthmus in the Principal Legue would be a prime spot for a canal. Why take forever to sail all the way around the continent when you can go right through it? Since I'm assuming that the League is mostly human and dwarf (they are the races nearest it), they could have easily taken it upon themselves to construct such a structure.
Thoughts?

ApeofLight
2008-07-01, 12:30 PM
Yea I like the distrubtion of the races there. I'm thinking that the elves are living in a heavily forested area there and that there might be some primitive human tribes in Abraxas that have friendly relation with the elves.

I think the Eladrin have a pretty cool setup there. They proably have master of short range boats and have very diffrent cultures on each island because of the seperation.

And one last thing it looks like the Dragonborn/Tieflings have little interaction with the kobolds and goblinoids because of the mountain range.

I have to say I really like the maps.

Moff Chumley
2008-07-01, 02:23 PM
Yay! This is all really cool, guys. My thoughts, however, are thus: on Zeta's map, remove halflings and in their place put Goblinoids. Make there be either more mountains or more waterways seperating them.Their is a tenous peace between the Allied Nations (an extremely loose allience of all of the PHB races sans elves) and the goblinoid empire, with the exeption of the isolated Bugbear raid that is dealt with by both Hobgoblin and Warforged border gaurds. The Halflings are dispersed throughout the northern continent. Other than that, though, terrific map. Thanks. (More comments in a few hours.)

Siegel
2008-07-01, 03:28 PM
Greetings

I'm just newly registerd to maybe constribute a bit to this awesome setting idea.

I looked at the map and realised that halflings will maybee be in the northern part of the contintent so it will be cold and snowy and stuff right ? Why don't make halflings a saami / mongolian like culture, especialy saami like (saami are a minority livling in northern norway, sweden in finnland)

I would more dig the Eldarin on the southern continent as the "Asian Empire leaders", not since they seem to fit that setting as high cultivated as they are.

It's late here and i am quite bad at my englisch this evenying so
more to come in the next few days. Greetings from germany.

puppyavenger
2008-07-01, 04:18 PM
since I find this interesting....

are we going to have elves and eldarine related? if so, than how are we going to explain them being on separate continents? personally, I like them on the archipelago.
also, where will the dragons go? I'd say put the metallics as living gods on the Asian continent and the rest somewhere in the new world.

ApeofLight
2008-07-01, 04:23 PM
That sounds pretty good to me. In fact if the dragons are gods on the south continent that helps explains why the dragonborn are there.

puppyavenger
2008-07-01, 04:37 PM
for the Asian Continent, is it going to be a number of kingdoms, a caste-based Empire (which seems to an integral part of an Asian civilization for some people) or a egalitarian empire?

Moff Chumley
2008-07-01, 04:46 PM
Well, my vision for the Southern continent was the huge Dragonborn empire, surrounded by Eladrin and Tiefling principalaties that remain mostly at piece with each other. Of course, the Eladrin city-states are relatively arogant and the tieflings tend towards hedonism (a tiefling city being the least benevolent civilized place in the world; however, this isn't saying much.) All three groups are fighting a distant and ongoing war against the kobolds and drow, the kobolds being led by chromatic dragons and other dragon-themed people. However, the war is very distant, and doesn't really affect the lives of civilians. Comments?

ApeofLight
2008-07-01, 04:56 PM
I think it might be reversed there. I kinda agree on the tieflings. I think its the dragonborn that are trying to get rid of the "lesser" dragon race if you will. And I think the southern continent for the most part is just one big empire kinda like china. Also I think the eladrin should be on the islands.

Moff Chumley
2008-07-01, 05:03 PM
Ooh, I had a brilliant idea! How about, two (or more) generations ago, most of the Eladrin departed the southern continent in search of this new land for some mysterious reason and settled on the islands? :smallsmile:

ZeraiDaimah
2008-07-01, 05:07 PM
Very cool with the maps Zeta! let's see, i'm ok with the name as is, about the maps, i would add a little area enclosed by mountains in the new continent, as that's the kind of thing that gives misterious areas (it's not easy to pass mountains, even with steampunk tech) also, we need more dwarf mountains, and seaside cliffs (ok, that's simply my preference:smallbiggrin:).

Hmm, i seem to have missed it, but are elfs and half-elfs going to be a playable race? i understand the need to have some kind of organized race in abraxas, but i don't know if should be a tipically player race, and i don't think it will fit well with the discovery theme if they are supposed to have a new continent, but already knew of the races there.

Lil' final point, if the Stagesmith canal is made, that would be a good oportunity to make the warforged as robot labour, that then becomes inteligent (maybe i'm too focused in this, but i still can't see them as primarily designed as weapons, even if mindless)

ApeofLight
2008-07-01, 05:20 PM
I kinda like the idea of the Eladrin going away like a century ago(or a hundred depending on the generation).

Also they only discovered the elves because they got people over there and established contact with them. Also there might be other races we don't know about on Abraxas.

Moff Chumley
2008-07-01, 05:37 PM
And if there are, they are most definately evil... mwa ha ha. :smallamused:

puppyavenger
2008-07-01, 05:42 PM
for the Asian Continent (which needs a name), maybe the remaining Eladrin are the traders and the only inhabitants with any significant exposure to the Northern Continent.

For the Empire, maybe some of the kobolds launched a revolution and live underground in a cold war state. The probably are the main resource suppliers to the tiefling cities.

Qwernt
2008-07-01, 05:49 PM
Sorry to step in with a Random thought...

I didn't see conclusion to the discussion about why the new continent was suddenly accessible. My random thought (properly stolen from a good ENWorld story), the God(s) of the sea from one continent and the God(s) of the sea from the other didn't get along, but have recently come to "peaceful" compromise.

puppyavenger
2008-07-01, 05:53 PM
Sorry to step in with a Random thought...

I didn't see conclusion to the discussion about why the new continent was suddenly accessible. My random thought (properly stolen from a good ENWorld story), the God(s) of the sea from one continent and the God(s) of the sea from the other didn't get along, but have recently come to "peaceful" compromise.

or they just has something the size of the Atlantic ocean between them

ApeofLight
2008-07-01, 06:10 PM
Yea thats pretty much is what it is.

puppyavenger
2008-07-01, 06:22 PM
So what do you think of my idea for the Asian continent?
also, race origins, my idea's:
humans, halfling, dwarves, goblins original races, created by the gods, or whatever life was created by.
dragonborn, kobolds. Changed from other life( I don't know, maybe Elderin, they're already there) by the dragons to act as guardians/servant/people to shine treasure and hunt.
elves/eldarin. exiled from feywyld.far realm, with varying degrees of time spent away.
on a completely different note, why do they spell feywyld with a y?

ApeofLight
2008-07-01, 06:32 PM
You know maybe the Dragonborn where made to be like guardians of the dragons and the kobolds where servants but then the dragons became fewer and rarer and they where able to free themselves. But the kobolds dont like the Dragonborn for being above them in the begining. Eeh?

Zeta Kai
2008-07-01, 06:33 PM
Then again, we need an explanation for why the civilized folk never went WEST (IE around the other way, to the other side of Abraxas). This can be solved one of two ways:

We can either construct some mystical fiat, wherein some oceanic threat made all oceanic travel impossible up until recently, & now only passage going west from the Civilized lands is blocked.
We assume that the continents portrayed here are somewhat smaller than one would assume by looking at the map; maybe more like Australia-sized, rather than Asia-sized. That would enable us to make the Outer Sea larger than the Pacific, & the Inner Sea somewhat smaller than the Atlantic.

On another note, nobody seems to have a problem with Gears of Neve, so I'm changing the name of the thread.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-01, 06:43 PM
Or, maybe if they keep on going, they'll fall of the edge?

Actually, we could have that as the reason nobody tried going EAST either, until some poor sod was blown of course, and landed near the elves.

ApeofLight
2008-07-01, 06:43 PM
Yea I'm kinda thinking it of that the west way is just way to big and the east way is just being traveled now.

Recaiden
2008-07-01, 07:02 PM
I assumed that there was more water and possibly some land near the poles that was not included in the map. The world could even be much bigger, and this is just the central portion, Like Forgotten realms, although i think there should only be these 3 continents.
@apeofflight: That is a good idea for the kobolds and dragonborn. I don't think that either should be assumed to be the bad guys.

puppyavenger
2008-07-01, 07:04 PM
You know maybe the Dragonborn where made to be like guardians of the dragons and the kobolds where servants but then the dragons became fewer and rarer and they where able to free themselves. But the kobolds dont like the Dragonborn for being above them in the begining. Eeh?

sure, explains why kobolds are more comfortable underground( they lived in the dragons caverns)

So as the dragons killed each other went into eternal sleeps, the high-level dragonborn set up a sort of government, assuming the kobolds would just follow their orders. In general, the dragonborn goverment is run like a army, with high command ruling the country. Anyone serving a still-living dragon is treated as a holy man, and any dragon is treated as a god.

A large minority of the kobolds meanwhile, decided to see how they did for themselves, and seized a large part of a mountain range as their own. As fighting a war against kobolds when the kobolds are on their mountainous home turf is somewhat suicidal, a sort of cold-war has set in kobolds on both sides serving as spies.

The tieflings are pretty insuler, not really caring what goes on outside their city-states as long as their supply of goods and luxuries is uninterrupted. As they are willing to pay, all the other powers are willing to allow them to glut themselves.

The elderin and just traders and go-betweens. they are quite mercenary and willing to do a lot for a piece of magical lore.

ApeofLight
2008-07-01, 07:13 PM
Yea the Eladrin are very mysteries and no one knows exactly where they come from... until now.

But the Tieflings need some sort of service that can allow them to live there while not becoming involved with anything. Ideas?

puppyavenger
2008-07-01, 07:15 PM
Yea the Eladrin are very mysteries and no one knows exactly where they come from... until now.

But the Tieflings need some sort of service that can allow them to live there while not becoming involved with anything. Ideas?

while the continent seems pretty magic-centric, if tieflings are fiend tainted humans, than maybe they have a bunch of obscure rituals that allow them to produce wealth.
or maybe they have a lot of maps, I don't know.

also, divinity, we should decide on the pantheon about now, also, would something like dragon or ancestor worship allow you to become a cleric?

ApeofLight
2008-07-01, 07:19 PM
I think we are using just the normal pantheon from 4e.

Moff Chumley
2008-07-01, 07:42 PM
I think we are using just the normal pantheon from 4e.

Yah, I was thinking of sticking to the default 4e cosmology, gods included.

I like all of the above ideas; if anyone has the time for a large megapost, that'll move the setting by leaps and bounds. Don't worry about disapproval, pretty much whatever you say in a megapost becomes law.


Yea the Eladrin are very mysteries and no one knows exactly where they come from... until now.

But the Tieflings need some sort of service that can allow them to live there while not becoming involved with anything. Ideas?

Arrogance. And laziness. However, there are still several tieflings who interested in warfare who join the Dragonborn military, and some high level tiefling warlocks set up strongholds in the mountains.

puppyavenger
2008-07-01, 07:42 PM
I think we are using just the normal pantheon from 4e.

gah, forum ate my post..

anyway, we should make it so different gods have followers on different continents, to drive home the point that they're separated.

so, would idol worship grant you powers?

EDIT. So for map changes, maybe the large peninsula is full of mountains and where the separatist kobolds are, the tip near the northern continent is populated by the few pots the eldarin claim as their own. Below them is the dragonborn empire and between it and the kobolds is a thin line of tiefling city states (another reason why a war is avoided)

Moff Chumley
2008-07-01, 08:29 PM
I think that there should be tiefling enclaves throughout the northern half of the continent, even within the dragonborn empire.

Anyway, here's an idea I had for racial creation: doing it backwards. Every god created one major species on the planet.
Avandra: Halflings
Bahamut: Dragonborn
Corelon: Eladrin
Erathis: Humans
Ioun: Gnomes
Kord: Shifters
Melora: Elves
Moradin: Dwarves
Pelor: Half Elves (I vote we rename them)
The Raven Queen: Shadar-Kai
Sehanine: Doppelgangers (They aren't evil. They have the same range of dispositions as humans.)
Asmodeus: Tieflings
Bane: Goblins
Gruumsh: Orcs
Lolth: Drow
Tiamat: Kobolds
Torog: Minotaur
Vecna: Mind Flayers
Zehir: Yuan-Ti

Making this list, of course, calls to mind the races we forgot, so I'll run down the list:
Gnomes: Northern continent nomads, very loose alliance with the other species, quite mysterious, kill you if you mix them up with halflings.
Shifters: New world, tribal.
Half-Elves: With a rename, I vote we put them in the southern continent as close allies with the dragonborn.
Shadar-Kai: Shadar-Kai caravans appear outside towns, stay for a few weeks, and then disappear.
Doppelgangers: Extremely rare as a species, native to the southern continent. Being a doppelganger has about the same social repercussions as being gay.
Orcs: I say southern continent, in roving war bands. The Dragonborn empire has huge magical walls of course, so they aren't much of a threat.
Drow: Underdark dwellers; I think we should change Lolth to plain evil and have Drow society be much more stable. They dwell very far under both continents, and have tenuous trading relationships with Eladrin, Gnomes, and Tieflings.
Minotaurs: Native to the archipelgo, in a ancient greek sort of society. [Cough cough]
Mind Flayers: Also Underdark dwellers, they live under the ocean and come into very rare contact with other beings.
Yuan-ti: Abraxas dwellers.

Thoughts? (I'm predicting... four ninjas?)

Edit: What?!? No ninjas? You guys are such slackers... :smallwink:

ApeofLight
2008-07-01, 08:36 PM
I don't think the gnomes shouldn be nomads. Just personal prefrence. I like them as the kind of gnomes from the dragonlance chronicles. Just a personal prefrence though.

puppyavenger
2008-07-01, 09:09 PM
I think that there should be tiefling enclaves throughout the northern half of the continent, even within the dragonborn empire.
agreed

Anyway, here's an idea I had for racial creation: doing it backwards. Every god created one major species on the planet.
Avandra: Halflings
Bahamut: Dragonborn
Corelon: Eladrin
Erathis: Humans
Ioun: Gnomes
Kord: Shifters
Melora: Elves
Moradin: Dwarves
Pelor: Half Elves (I vote we rename them)
The Raven Queen: Shadar-Kai
Sehanine: Doppelgangers (They aren't evil. They have the same range of dispositions as humans.)
Asmodeus: Tieflings
Bane: Goblins
Gruumsh: Orcs
Lolth: Drow
Tiamat: Kobolds
Torog: Minotaur
Vecna: Mind Flayers
Zehir: Yuan-Ti
no acsess to 4e books, but a few things on the ones I understand.
eldarin/elves I'd like to keep the origins as extra-planar exile's
dragonborn, Why would a LG diety create a race of soildiers for a bunch of supercompetitive dragons?
kobolds, again, why?
tieflings, perhapse they were a power-hungy member of the principality league who made a pact wit Asmodeus and were driven away.

Making this list, of course, calls to mind the races we forgot, so I'll run down the list:
Gnomes: Northern continent nomads, very loose alliance with the other species, quite mysterious, kill you if you mix them up with halflings.
sure why not
Shifters: New world, tribal.
are't they descended from dopplegangers or something?, anyway, their abilities would provide them a massive edge in regionel dominance
Half-Elves: With a rename, I vote we put them in the southern continent as close allies with the dragonborn.
I don't know, I like he idea of hem being like te metis
Shadar-Kai: Shadar-Kai caravans appear outside towns, stay for a few weeks, and then disappear.
so like the gypsies? I'd imagine that people looking to ge far away really fast would try and join up with them
Doppelgangers: Extremely rare as a species, native to the southern continent. Being a doppelganger has about the same social repercussions as being gay.
that anolagy is incredibly vage, what time period? and I'd imagine that people would have a bit more of a violent responce to something that can replace you for the rest of your natural life with no-one noticing
Orcs: I say southern continent, in roving war bands. The Dragonborn empire has huge magical walls of course, so they aren't much of a threat.
maybe we should make a small tip of the contnent where they have pretty much complete control
Drow: Underdark dwellers; I think we should change Lolth to plain evil and have Drow society be much more stable. They dwell very far under both continents, and have tenuous trading relationships with Eladrin, Gnomes, and Tieflings.
this brings up an impotent point, do we need an underdark? We already have a large piece of unknown and unexplored land.
Minotaurs: Native to the archipelgo, in a ancient greek sort of society. [Cough cough]
a`place for shipwrecks to go to? what would their relaationship be with the island elderin?
Mind Flayers: Also Underdark dwellers, they live under the ocean and come into very rare contact with other beings.
than how do they eat?
Yuan-ti: Abraxas dwellers.
thats new world? sre, how about an amaxon-rainforst like place to put them?
Thoughts? (I'm predicting... four ninjas?)

Edit: What?!? No ninjas? You guys are such slackers... :smallwink:

comments in bold.

also. Do we neeed an Underdark? discuss

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-01, 09:18 PM
I don't think we need an underdark. We can put Drow under the mountains, and mindflayers in the jungles of the New World.

puppyavenger
2008-07-01, 09:31 PM
I don't think we need an underdark. We can put Drow under the mountains, and mindflayers in the jungles of the New World.

ooh, primitive tribes sacrificing people ot aztec like mind flayers.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-01, 09:47 PM
ooh, primitive tribes sacrificing people ot aztec like mind flayers.

I like that idea quite a bit.

BTW, I've formally requested sub-forum status for this project from one of the moderators, a rather pleasant chap who's been kind to me in the past. Wish us all luck folks.

Recaiden
2008-07-01, 09:49 PM
Maybe Tiamat created the dragonborn as soldiers for the dragons.
In 3.5, from Races of the Dragon, kobolds' motivation for being evil was revenge against Garl Glittergold and gnomes. Kobolds son't really seem to fit Bahamut, could some gods have created 2 races?

As i understand it, Dopplegangers are basically 3.5 changelings. They could be slightly uncommon, and some people would acept them, others wouldn't.

An underdark doesn't really seem necessary. There can be caves in certain areas, but the races can mainly be reflavored to live elsewhere. Underdark adventuring has a different feel to it.
Agree with everything else Moff Chumley said.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-01, 11:16 PM
As i understand it, Dopplegangers are basically 3.5 changelings. They could be slightly uncommon, and some people would acept them, others wouldn't.

Actually, Changelings are descended from Dopplegangers, & are a PC race of Eberron.


An underdark doesn't really seem necessary. There can be caves in certain areas, but the races can mainly be reflavored to live elsewhere. Underdark adventuring has a different feel to it.

Yes, it does indeed, & I don't think that it would be appropriate here. The Underdark is a unique creation of the Forgotten Realms setting, & doesn't fit the upbeat mood that we're shooting for, really.

BTW, I'd like to do an informal roll call to add to the first post, under the maps & banners (thanks again, Tsuuga). Any objections?

Zeta Kai
2008-07-01, 11:38 PM
I have some news about getting sub-forum status for this project. Below are all direct, unedited quotes.

Here's my request from earlier today:
Originally Posted by Zeta Kai
Hello (Again),

The 4th Edition World-Building Project now known as Gears of Neve seems to be taking off, gathering a lot of interest & collecting a dedicated following of homebrewers, several of which have added Gears of Neve banners to their signatures. The energy on this thread is pleasantly surprising, to say the least.

As the OP for the project, I wish to request that this thread be given sub-forum status, like Tears of Blood, the 3.5 world-building project. This will allow us to expand our nascent ideas & address issues in separate threads, rather than all in one chaotic single thread. We have a number of topics to fill a sub-forum, such as cartography/geography, history, races, technology, etc.

Gears of Neve actually branched off of another 4E setting project, but despite my efforts, I haven't been able to generate as much interest in that one as this one is receiving. I'm not complaining, of course; I'm just emphasizing the need we have for a space of our own, where we can collect & focus our thoughts & ideas into a cohesive whole.

Is this even possible? Is there room for another sub-forum? I would like to think so. If this is the case, could you please grant us this favor? We would all greatly appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

Zeta Kai

And here's what the moderator, Roland St. Jude, said in return (posted with permission from the moderator, as it's generally very bad form to post PMs without permission):
Originally Posted by Roland St. Jude
Hi,

Interesting proposition. I'll pass it along to the group and we'll discuss it. If it happens, it's unlikely to happen soon. I know we're generally against starting new sub-forums because of the adminstrative and technical issues, but this seems like a good reason to have one. We'll have to hash all this out and see if it's something we can do.

In the meantime, you have my permission to start a couple extra threads (say three 4e world-building threads max), for the time being. If you don't hear back from us in a while, feel free to follow up by PM.

~Roland

Here's what I wrote back:
Originally Posted by Zeta Kai
Thank you for your consideration. I appreciate the seriousness with which you have taken my proposal. My only question is this: Would you mind if I post your response below in the thread publicly, so that the other thread contributors see that progress is being made in this direction? I feel that it will help if they are informed of ongoing developments. If you say no, that's fine, I can paraphrase the report. I would just prefer a direct quote, if possible, so I don't put words in your mouth. Thanks again, & I hope that it may go in out favor.

Zeta Kai

And lastly, here's how he responded:
Originally Posted by Roland St. Jude
That would be fine. Just be sure to note that it's posted with permission as it's generally very bad form to post PMs without permission. Creating a new subforum is a major deal on our end, so it may take a while. And there may be issues in doing so that I'm unaware of. But to the extent that I can, I'll keep you apprised. As I said, we have a 3e worldbuilding sections, so a 4e one makes sense to me.

~Roland

So, bottom line? No sub-forum for us just yet, but it is being seriously considered, & it is possible that it could be in our favor. That's about the best one could hope for, & we weren't shot down immediately. I urge that we be patient & respectfully await their decision.

They did, however, give us even more good news: we have explicit permission to start other Gears of Neve threads (3 total maximum). I'd say our next order of business should be to decide which of our many topics of discussion should we spin off into a separate thread. My idea is to have a thread for each continent: this main one for Abraxas, & 2 new ones for the other continents (Civilized Lands North & South).

Any thoughts? Reactions? Questions? Concerns?

ApeofLight
2008-07-01, 11:52 PM
Yea I think it is good that where being considered for sub forum. Also I think splitting it up into the three continents is good for now.

TheCheshireHat
2008-07-02, 07:42 AM
*de-lurks*

I've been following this thread for a while now, and I really like the concept and ideas for this setting :smallsmile:

I have little experience with D&D, but I think I can contribute with a few ideas.

Dragonborn empire: How about a caste system with an emphasis to how each caste is different in function, but is regarded as equal in utility? So a high priest would be equal in terms of actual power to a general and to a guildmaster/master artisan. To go with this idea, they could have a merit-based society, where individuals are judged by their skills and accomplishments.
This would work quite well if the Dragonborn are oviparous (are they? I seem to recall that it was the case) as communal hatching grounds dealies are easier/more justifiable for egg-laying creatures, and would tie in to the "proud" thing the dragonborn seem to have going.

Thoughts?

I'll try read through the tread again and see what else I can come up with

puppyavenger
2008-07-02, 09:29 AM
Maybe Tiamat created the dragonborn as soldiers for the dragons.
In 3.5, from Races of the Dragon, kobolds' motivation for being evil was revenge against Garl Glittergold and gnomes. Kobolds son't really seem to fit Bahamut, could some gods have created 2 races?
.

I honestly prefer the idea that the (lomg-dead, or sleeping) dragon created them. Gives an idea for epic advenures oo.
so, here's a summery of thngs in the Eastern Landmass.
Elve's are the main race west of the mountains.
There's an Amazon Rainforst type area that houses Yaun-ta and Maindflayers
Everyone else is just knd of vaugl defined.

However, first lets answer this question, where are the goblins?

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-02, 10:17 AM
The Northern Continent is already heavily populated, except the south part.

Aha! Goblinoids live in the southern half of the Northern Continent, in a very uneasy peace with the Principal League.

Edit: As for the other threads, I agree, one for every continent would be good.

puppyavenger
2008-07-02, 10:39 AM
The Northern Continent is already heavily populated, except the south part.

Aha! Goblinoids live in the southern half of the Northern Continent, in a very uneasy peace with the Principal League.

Edit: As for the other threads, I agree, one for every continent would be good.

well, if no-one objects, lets make this the Northern Continent Thread, I'll make one for the Southern Continent and someone else can make a Abraxes thread.

TheStagesmith
2008-07-02, 12:13 PM
Elve's are the main race west of the mountains.
There's an Amazon Rainforst type area that houses Yaun-ta and Maindflayers
Everyone else is just knd of vaugl defined.

However, first lets answer this question, where are the goblins?

I thought that elves were going to be our rainforest savages? Perhaps the Illithids are a slightly more civilized society that lives underneath the forest, among the roots of the great trees. They could be reclusive, shunning active contact with outsiders, but not bearing any ill will towards them.

I like the idea of the goblins being in the southern part of the northern continent. Now, what is their society like? What gives them the power to be able to survive contemporarily with the other nations of that continent? (since those other nations/alliances don't seem like the most friendly of people) Hmm..
Perhaps the goblins are the ones that first perfected real sea travel, and thus are a bit like Holland during the 1500s: the shipbuilders of the world, therefore holding a kind of monopoly on large-scale exploration. Thoughts?

puppyavenger
2008-07-02, 01:39 PM
I thought that elves were going to be our rainforest savages? Perhaps the Illithids are a slightly more civilized society that lives underneath the forest, among the roots of the great trees. They could be reclusive, shunning active contact with outsiders, but not bearing any ill will towards them.
1. Why are the elves on the other side of the mountains?
2. how does a mindflayer civilization live without contact with outsiders?
3. I though elves were the ones with the most contact with the colonies.

ApeofLight
2008-07-02, 01:50 PM
No Eladrin have the most contact.

Szilard
2008-07-02, 01:52 PM
I saw someone say caste system for the dragonborn, to expand on this idea, maybe the caste system is based on the scale color of the dragonborn? Like maybe red is a warrior, gray is a religion offical, gold is royal and so on.

TheStagesmith
2008-07-02, 02:14 PM
2. how does a mindflayer civilization live without contact with outsiders?


I don't know. Maybe they've figured out a way of dealing with the 'body snatchers' method of reproduction without going out and killing people? Just thought it was an interesting idea and threw it out there.

puppyavenger
2008-07-02, 04:27 PM
No Eladrin have the most contact.

umm.. do you mean the Southern Continent Eldarin (who don't really count as New-Worlders) or the island Elderin( who are on a different landmass than the colonies)

So, does anyone have any objections to the " a continent per thread" idea?

Moff Chumley
2008-07-02, 05:46 PM
Well, it doesn't fell perfect for me, but then, I can't think of anything better, so go ahead. :smallsmile: I'll work on the northern continent, and I'm taking Tsuuga and his/her map making skillz with me!


(I am SO exited that we might get a sunforum. :smallbiggrin: )

puppyavenger
2008-07-02, 05:53 PM
Well, it doesn't fell perfect for me, but then, I can't think of anything better, so go ahead. :smallsmile: I'll work on the northern continent, and I'm taking Tsuuga and his/her map making skillz with me!


(I am SO exited that we might get a sunforum. :smallbiggrin: )

hmm, I don't suppose there's any way we could work out a time share?
if not, anyone else any good at map making?

I'll set up the Southern continent thread at a bit before midnight if no-one objects.

ApeofLight
2008-07-02, 06:07 PM
You know I think the Eladrin have contacts just about every where except maybe with the elves but know one knew where they where coming from until we discovered the new continent.

puppyavenger
2008-07-02, 06:24 PM
You know I think the Eladrin have contacts just about every where except maybe with the elves but know one knew where they where coming from until we discovered the new continent.

I honestly like them on the archipelago better, explains why they got good at shipbuilding.
maybe they've known about Abraxes for a long time, but since they lacked the manpower to start a colony and there was no-one to trade with on the coast, they just ignored it.

Vadin
2008-07-02, 07:33 PM
Perhaps the goblins are the ones that first perfected real sea travel, and thus are a bit like Holland during the 1500s: the shipbuilders of the world, therefore holding a kind of monopoly on large-scale exploration. Thoughts?

Not a bad idea, and it should be remembered that being the best shipbuilders and sailors doesn't mean that they'll explore the most if they aren't that organized (like the Spaniards were, with everyone working for the Crown, basically) or its more profitable to sell their skills.

puppyavenger
2008-07-02, 10:30 PM
okay, well here's the Southern Continent thread
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4525830#post4525830

ApeofLight
2008-07-02, 11:36 PM
So is this the thread for Abraxas? Then we need to make a thread for the North continent.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-02, 11:40 PM
Yes, I propose the this be the Abraxas thread; I can rename it, if necessary. Are there any volunteers for starting the Northern Continent thread? PuppyAvenger seems to have started the Southern Continent thread well, by re-capping what we know of it, & adding a few choice details.

puppyavenger
2008-07-03, 09:03 AM
Yes, I propose the this be the Abraxas thread; I can rename it, if necessary. Are there any volunteers for starting the Northern Continent thread? PuppyAvenger seems to have started the Southern Continent thread well, by re-capping what we know of it, & adding a few choice details.

Sounds good.

also,`I figured it would be easier than getting people to go through the entire thread.

TheStagesmith
2008-07-03, 10:37 AM
Yes, I propose the this be the Abraxas thread; I can rename it, if necessary. Are there any volunteers for starting the Northern Continent thread? PuppyAvenger seems to have started the Southern Continent thread well, by re-capping what we know of it, & adding a few choice details.

I can start it off. Give me a bit of time to get all the information together, but expect it to be up tonight.

puppyavenger
2008-07-03, 10:48 AM
Hurray, only one continent left to name!
for Abraxes, what power groups will have colonies? also, what level of civilization do the native cultures have? the elderin are quite soiphisticated and have good boat making skills obviously, but they're on a completely different landmass (same continent though)
I still say Aztec Mindflayers.

Moff Chumley
2008-07-03, 11:12 AM
I agree on the Aztec Mindflayers thing. Also, as far as I know, every race has a presence in the new world.

TheStagesmith
2008-07-03, 11:18 AM
Hey, I had an unexpected chunk of free time, so I used it to get the Northern Continent thread up and running. Here's the link.

Recaiden
2008-07-03, 11:19 AM
Maybe mind flayers steal elves' bodies to reproduce, since humans only recently arrived. Or they could be different from normal mind flayers. I agree on the aztec ruler mind flayers.
I think that humans have a slight majority over the other races in Abraxas, but all of them are there in some part, more than in the previous continents. An exception would be tieflings and possibly goblins, who would have less reason or ability to leave.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-03, 11:57 AM
The "main" thread has had its name changed to Gears of Neve: a 4E World-Building Project Abraxas, to reflex its new status as the dedicated Abraxas discussion thread.

Links to the Southern Continent thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84602)& the Northern Continent thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84633)have been added to the first post in the Abraxas thread.

puppyavenger
2008-07-03, 12:13 PM
Maybe mind flayers steal elves' bodies to reproduce, since humans only recently arrived. Or they could be different from normal mind flayers. I agree on the aztec ruler mind flayers.
I think that humans have a slight majority over the other races in Abraxas, but all of them are there in some part, more than in the previous continents. An exception would be tieflings and possibly goblins, who would have less reason or ability to leave.

so lets steal a central area of the continent for Amazon land, okay?
if so, lets make the main inhabitants changelings (since I think elves are all on the western side of the mountains.) with a sizable population of yaun-ta and a group of Aztec mindflayer.

that's in increasing order of civility.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-03, 02:30 PM
Elves and Changelings are the main population groups, with Mindflayers being quite seperate, and preying on the Changelings, and the Yuan-ti being hidden legends.

Edit: For the colonies, I think that the Imperial Alliance should have a near monopoly, with the others just starting, in different places. The Imperial Alliance colonies are mostly human, with a reasonable amount of goblins, and some dwarves. The halflings I think are more individual, and would want to set up there own colonies. They wouldn't even be proper colonies.

I have an Idea! (Yes with a capital). Remember how there were 2 separate halfling "Kingdoms"? What if a third tribe decided they didn't want to live under either's rule, and went to the Abraxas? They could have landed in the North, on the other side of the Mountains, and disappeared from view...

The Eldarin are not interested, other than being used by the Dragonborn the same way the others are using the goblins.

Hmm...

I need a map.
I'll finish this thought once I finish my map.

Recaiden
2008-07-03, 02:31 PM
if so, lets make the main inhabitants changelings (since I think elves are all on the western side of the mountains.)

Do you mean Dopplegangers, shifters, or something else?

I think that Yuan-ti should be at least as common as mind flayers. And are yuan-ti still descended from humans?

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-03, 02:39 PM
Yuan-ti are descended from Elves now instead.

Edit: I won't have any maps up until tomorrow, sadly, but I'll finish my though anyways.

So we have a halfling lost tribe that entered from the north, on the other side of the mountains.

Do you see how there are two bay like things? The North one is where the Imperial Alliance colonies are. These colonies, we're going to have to figure out what they look and feel like.

The Draconic Empire and the Principal League are just beginning to send out expeditionary forces, the Draconic Empire to the Archipelago and Southern Peninsula, and the Principal League to the Southern Bay, and the base of the Southern Peninsula.


For the feel of the colonies, here's my visual. Forgive my double post, but I want a new post for this.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-03, 04:11 PM
First Sighting

The first sighting of Abraxas by a (Person from northern continent) was a Principal League trader crewed by goblins. Blown of course by a freak gale, the strongly religious hobgoblin captain kept a strict diary of the happenings. (I'll work on this later.) It was clear to them that they would fall of the edge of the world. They were blown all around the place, for months, forced to survive on fish and drained saltwater. Indeed, they were close to following of the edge at times; the lookout had a heart-attack upon viewing it. However, the winds always changed, and blew them the other way. Every day, the captain would measure there position, using the stars and the sun, and mark down where they were. There first sight of land in 2 months was huge mountains in the distance. None of the crew had ever seen, or heard of anything like it. They were blown closer, and for a whole week, were off the coast of this wondrous land, all thick jungle and towering mountains, with storm clouds ever gathering near the shrouded peaks. Then they were adrift again in the open sea, and eventually made shore in the Draconic Empire. There, they were taken in, and there boat repaired, and they were sent back to (Northern Continent). There, neither of there home countries believed there stories, but the Imperial Alliance thought it enough to warrant further investigation.

The First Expeditions

2 men signed up to lead expeditions east. These two men were as different as could be.

The young Sir Frederick Wallan was always known as an adventurous rogue: the third son of a minor nobleman, he somehow managed to earn money as fast as he spent it. The amount of money he spent on this expedition was unthought of; most though nobody would even except the offer of land and money for almost certain death. No matter, he bought himself a cog (http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/771/556903.JPG), and hired a crew of 15 sailors, with 5 soldiers, and brought them, along with his mistress Joanna and his personal bodyguard, Hernan, and set sail on Midsummers eve, for the unknown. Some say he never reached Abraxas. Some say he died on the journey. Some say he was killed by natives. Others, that he decided to join the natives and never come back. No matter the reason, he disappeared.

Not to be outdone, the venerable 64 year old Lord Victor of Umbroke sponsored no less than 3 fully manned caravels, (http://www.kwabs.com/columbusship4.jpg), and the quickest ship in all the land, the Ghost, led by well known explorer Jel Thomsu, the very same man who opened negotiations with the Draconic Empire. With no less than 40 soldiers, and a crew of 60 sailors, they sighted land early in August, but could find no place suitable to spend a winter. On the 10th of September, they managed to find an area of land that was only lightly wooded, and drew the ships up on the pebbly beach. (They had made land only 4 other times, and collected samples of plant life.) They chopped down trees, and built a group of cabins, and a tower, surrounded by a palisade. They wintered there, and then sent back the Ghost with news that they had landed, and survived. The messengers words will go down in history as marking one of the most important changes in history.

"Man, Dwarf, Halfling and Goblin-kind! Long have we lived in this land, plowing the same soil, living and dying, and being buried in the same crypt as your fathers, and your fathers fathers. But now, we live in a new land! No longer the land of our ancestors, we have discovered the Land of the Descendants!"

Though the name Land of Descendants never caught on, people leaving the Old World are often playfully said to be 'Leaving the Bones', a reference to that first, and very important declaration.

puppyavenger
2008-07-03, 05:43 PM
Do you mean Dopplegangers, shifters, or something else?

I think that Yuan-ti should be at least as common as mind flayers. And are yuan-ti still descended from humans?

1. changing, there an Eberon race, though t they were in the monster manual.
2.I'm really fine either way.

ZeraiDaimah
2008-07-03, 06:08 PM
While i don't know a lot of how the mind-flayers work, i suppose from what has been posted that they need a humanoid to use for reproduction, so, instead of reproduction, make it a symbiosis, also with this, simply make longer life and reproductive cycles if you wan't to reduce the number, and this way only a few chosen get "iluminated" as illithids, this being a voluntary process, of course, this is if we want the Good illithids, if where going with the evil ones, disregard all this :smallamused:

Gwyn, just a little question about the voyages, while they fear the fall from the border (and who doesn't?) have they seen the border or not? this is mostly questioning if the world is flat and finite, infinite or spherical (or any wacky other kind).

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-03, 06:47 PM
From afar, the border looks like a mist, hanging in the air, the mist from the water plunging off of the edge. None have seen the edge close too, and lived.

In other words, they think they've seen it. What have the seen, I don't know. Maybe it is the edge? Maybe not.

puppyavenger
2008-07-03, 07:02 PM
While i don't know a lot of how the mind-flayers work, i suppose from what has been posted that they need a humanoid to use for reproduction, so, instead of reproduction, make it a symbiosis, also with this, simply make longer life and reproductive cycles if you wan't to reduce the number, and this way only a few chosen get "iluminated" as illithids, this being a voluntary process, of course, this is if we want the Good illithids, if where going with the evil ones, disregard all this :smallamused:


I like brain eating, its pretty much an integral part of the mindflayer image.
ooh, maybe they're nocturnal, and live under Aztec type pyramids? and there's a tribe of changlings who use it as a temple and leave sacrifices there at dusk. the mind flayers obviously don't mind

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-03, 07:04 PM
I think that's beginning to veer a bit to much to the dark side for our purposes.

puppyavenger
2008-07-03, 07:08 PM
I think that's beginning to veer a bit to much to the dark side for our purposes.

ah well then, I still think that we should keep brain-eating mind flayers.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-03, 07:20 PM
On second thought, it might be a refreshing break to have something like that, so keep it.

puppyavenger
2008-07-03, 07:30 PM
On second thought, it might be a refreshing break to have something like that, so keep it.

always nice to have something to kill without regrets, plus it acidentaly signing up for being a sacrifice is always fun:smallwink:

ApeofLight
2008-07-03, 08:16 PM
Something I just came up with.

The discovery of elves.

Hearing of the new world a rich tiefling merchant got and idea. What if this new continent was where the Eladrin where coming from. Spending a good amount of his fortune buying a boat and hiring crew.

Setting off the ship had a pretty uneventful voyage. Unfortunately they where way more north than they thought the Eladrin would be. When they disembarked and explored it was not long before they came upon a group of people that looked much like the Eladrin. Fortunatly the language of Elves and Eladrin are very close. The Tiefling then returned home with stories of the newly discovered race.

TheCheshireHat
2008-07-03, 08:44 PM
Yeah, keep the brain-eating aztec mind-flayers. Upbeat is one thing, utter lack of evil is another. Adventurers always need evil stuff to smite, and being set up as a sacrifice is waaay to traditional in adventure movies/books to let go :smallbiggrin:


From afar, the border looks like a mist, hanging in the air, the mist from the water plunging off of the edge. None have seen the edge close too, and lived.

In other words, they think they've seen it. What have the seen, I don't know. Maybe it is the edge? Maybe not.

hmmm... interesting. Maybe ships that try to strike west from the Old World(s) really just fall off the edge :smallamused:



The Yuan-ti are supposed to be corrupted elves/humans that got turned into snake people, right? Personally, I'd go with elves, mainly because they've been on the continent for longer. As an idea, a group of elves stumbled on some long-abandoned temple and got cursed. Somehow. Okay, got something that might work:

The "aztec" temple pyramids were built buy some long-gone-and-forgotten civilization (And I mean this from the natives' perspective). Obviously evil, maybe they wiped themselves out (or whatever). Both the mind-flayers and the Yuan-ti moved in after this, and have a long lasting rivalry over who actually gets to own, and live in, the pyramids. Some pyramids belong to the Yuan-ti, some to the mind-flayers, some havent been discovered yet, others are sealed for mysterious (and possibly evil!) reasons. In any case there's treasure and magical secrets to be had a-plenty inside these things. Season with ancient horrors to taste.

This brings me to a possible origin for the Yuan-ti: tribe/group of elves (mostly, because they've been living on Abraxas longer) investigate one of these sealed temples and discover some ancient entity, start worshipping it and get transformed into what they are now. Said entity (god, demon, whatever) might not necessarily be evil, could be neutral or even benign. That depends on what we decide to make of the Yuan-ti.

Sorry if this is post is not entirely coherent, m'kinda tired :smallcool:

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-03, 08:59 PM
How about an exiled Tiefling merchant. That way it's more likely for him to be 'in the know'.

*THIS PART IS NOT IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER WITH THE REST OF THE STORY. I'LL PUT IT IN PLACE LATER*

Forgoth was a tiefling merchant, ejected from his land in the city of Gahundar for fraud, and unable to change loyalties, as his enemies had slandered his name all over the continent of Terasul. So, he he used what was left of his money to hire an Eladrin boat to take him to the continent of Odrike. During this time, he became enamored with the the Eladrin and there ways. He had heard of them, and knew that they came not from either continent he knew of, but from a mysterious land, somewhere. The thing with the Eladrin is that when not needed, they are always at the background, it is only when they are handy do they spring to mind.

When Forgoth heard of Abraxas, all of a sudden, everything became crystal clear. THIS was where they came from. And THIS was where he needed to go. He became obsessed. He waited eagerly for news of settlements in the New World. When the next ship was to leave for Portton, the capital of the colonies, he booked a spot. He endured the journey, as perilous as any sea journey is, and as uncomfortable, the entire time thinking only of finding the homeland of the Eladrin.

What he ended up finding would shock the world even more.

When he arrived, he wasted no time in setting out into the jungle. Alone, unprotected, armed only with his own conviction, he walked through the palisade gates, and into the grand unknown. If he had known he would join the ranks of his most admired discoverers, who knows what he might have done.

After spending days lost in the jungle, he was saved by elves, daddadi, I'll finish later.

puppyavenger
2008-07-03, 10:43 PM
Yeah, keep the brain-eating aztec mind-flayers. Upbeat is one thing, utter lack of evil is another. Adventurers always need evil stuff to smite, and being set up as a sacrifice is waaay to traditional in adventure movies/books to let go :smallbiggrin:
maybe some of them follow that old plot of the sacrficee being treaed lke a god for a few months


The Yuan-ti are supposed to be corrupted elves/humans that got turned into snake people, right? Personally, I'd go with elves, mainly because they've been on the continent for longer. As an idea, a group of elves stumbled on some long-abandoned temple and got cursed. Somehow. Okay, got something that might work:

I'd go with changelings, but that's just because I like elves as pseudo-North American native, with the yaun-ta more Meso-American


The "aztec" temple pyramids were built buy some long-gone-and-forgotten civilization (And I mean this from the natives' perspective). Obviously evil, maybe they wiped themselves out (or whatever). Both the mind-flayers and the Yuan-ti moved in after this, and have a long lasting rivalry over who actually gets to own, and live in, the pyramids. Some pyramids belong to the Yuan-ti, some to the mind-flayers, some havent been discovered yet, others are sealed for mysterious (and possibly evil!) reasons. In any case there's treasure and magical secrets to be had a-plenty inside these things. Season with ancient horrors to taste.

hmm, maybe if somethings sacrificed at all the temples at the same time, something from the (insert whatever the war between gods and primordials is). anyway, I approve, we need somewhere to hide all the ancient artifacts.


This brings me to a possible origin for the Yuan-ti: tribe/group of elves (mostly, because they've been living on Abraxas longer) investigate one of these sealed temples and discover some ancient entity, start worshipping it and get transformed into what they are now. Said entity (god, demon, whatever) might not necessarily be evil, could be neutral or even benign. That depends on what we decide to make of the Yuan-ti.


Maybe a chained primordial? doesn't even doesn't even have to be evil
[quote]Sorry if this is post is not entirely coherent, m'kinda tired :smallcool:
wimp, I'm posting at 12:43

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-04, 10:01 AM
continuing my story of the discovery of the elves.

Forgoth was soon lost. Well, if you can call it lost. Can you be lost if you have no destination? He wandered for days, living off of what scarce plant life he could recognize, and a lot he could not. He saw many strange and wonderful beasts, but kept no log of them, as he was not an explorer, but merely a merchant who fancies himself an explorer.
He became faint, and tired, as one is wont to feel after several days with no sleep and scarce meals, and soon it came to pass that he fell unconscious on the jungle floor.
When he woke up, he was surrounded by a sort of Eldarin, except different. They were shorter, but still extraordinarily tall. Where the Eldarin were mysterious,these people were wild, strong, and hardy. They were the Elves.

The Elven tribe nursed Forgoth back to health, and he spent many months with them, and learned their language. They had watched the newcomers carefully for 2 years now, and had been fearful at there coming. From Forgoth, they learned where the strange people came from. From the Elves, Forgoth learned how to live in this land. However, after a time, Forgoth grew weary, and sought the company of his own people. His adoptive tribe led him back to Portton, now much larger, and, as soon as the walls came into sight, disappeared. Forgoth told everyone of the wondrous natives, the 'Noble Savages', and for a while was happy, but then, once again, longed for their company, and slipped out one day to rejoin them. Doubtless, he is with them now.

ApeofLight
2008-07-05, 01:16 PM
Maybe the Yuan-ti are elves that started worshiping a snake god thing and eventually turned into snake people.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-05, 04:08 PM
So we have 2 main ideas for the Yuan-ti.

Either Elves cursed by serpentine demons, or
Elves gifted by benevolent snake-goddesses. (Nagaa!)

ApeofLight
2008-07-05, 06:29 PM
Yea thats basically it for the Yuan-ti. We should proably keep them a savage race.

Moff Chumley
2008-07-06, 06:51 PM
Well, I think that the Yuan-Ti should be akin to Dark Eldar from 40k: degenerate elves who began to worship a dark god and practice twisted rituals.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-06, 07:39 PM
Well, I think that the Yuan-Ti should be akin to Dark Eldar from 40k: degenerate elves who began to worship a dark god and practice twisted rituals.

Not too degenerate or twisted; we must remember the core theme is that this place is Upbeat & Positive.

ApeofLight
2008-07-06, 08:13 PM
Well yea they just kinda found this new god started to worship and a few thousand years later they started to be snake people.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-06, 08:57 PM
We should have one post compiling everything we have. It would make it much easier to see where we are at the moment.

ApeofLight
2008-07-06, 09:00 PM
Perhaps the Oderike thread is where we will post all the stuff we come up with on the other threads. Maybe ever week someone goes and updates what we came up with.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-06, 10:57 PM
If someone would compile an objective periodic recap, feel free to PM me with it. I can put it up in post #1, for ease of use.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-07, 10:17 AM
I was thinking that we had roughly equal numbers on each continent. On Abraxas, the divide would be something like 70% Elf, 20% Eldarin, 5% Yuan-ti, 5% Mindflayer.

On Oderike, something like 40% Human, 15% Goblin, 20% Halfling, 20% Dwarf, 5% Gnome.

On Terasul, something like 50% Kobold, 40% Dragonborn, 10% Tiefling.

Leaving a total hierarchy of quantity as follows.

Elf>Kobold>Human=Dragonborn>Halfling=Dwarf=Eldarin>Goblin>Tiefling>Gnome=Mindflayer=Yuan-ti

Carrying over notes on other thread.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-07, 11:23 AM
Carrying over notes on other thread.

I tentatively approve of the above racial demographics. I am also awaiting a Bene Samaritani to PM me a compilation of the (mostly) agreed-to setting info. I'd do it myself, but I have no time in the forseeable future.

EDIT: I was wondering if anyone would object to the inclusion of the Oaves (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37855) into this campaign setting, somewhere in the remote jungles & plains of Abraxas. I've been wanting to use them in a campaign, & I think they would fit the savage continent nicely, while still keeping the setting upbeat & light-hearted.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-07, 12:38 PM
I'll put together the thing, I'll have it done tonight, as I am not actually on my own computer at the moment.

And no, I think that Oaves are most welcome.

puppyavenger
2008-07-07, 05:25 PM
Carrying over notes on other thread.

what about the elderin on Tersul? and I think dragon born would be a bit closer to kobolds.

Moff Chumley
2008-07-07, 06:07 PM
EDIT: I was wondering if anyone would object to the inclusion of the Oaves (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37855) into this campaign setting, somewhere in the remote jungles & plains of Abraxas. I've been wanting to use them in a campaign, & I think they would fit the savage continent nicely, while still keeping the setting upbeat & light-hearted.

What do they add?

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-07, 09:04 PM
@puppyavenger
There are very few eladrin on Terasul. They barely even figure.

@Moff Chumley
They're sorta fun. Really, that's the main reason for putting them in.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-07, 10:06 PM
What do they add?

Well, for one thing, not every player has read the Oaves entry in the PH forwards & backwards, so we can have a race with a level of meta-game mystery that even the mind-flayers cannot compete with. Also, they are a race that is in no danger of violating the positive, upbeat core theme, in & of itself. Lastly, I wrote a ridiculous amount of info on them (see the Oaves thread for copious examples). The only real detriment to them is that the crunch is written for 3.5, & I don't have enough practical experience with 4E to even begin to attempt a conversion. Most of what's written though is fluff, so I still consider them a viable option.

Oh, & for the record, double-whatcha, Moff.

ApeofLight
2008-07-07, 10:23 PM
I kinda like the idea of the oaves being a race on abraxas but i think we have enough races proably. Goblin, gnome, human, dwarf, warforged, halfling, dragonborn, kobold, tiefling, elves, eladrin and yuan-ti and mindflayers and oaves i dont think anymore is necasary.

Moff Chumley
2008-07-08, 06:45 PM
I agree with Apeoflight. If we find a role for them, that's fine, but otherwise, I think we should suspend the decision.

(@Zeta: I'm ignoring you. :smalltongue: )

ApeofLight
2008-07-09, 04:33 AM
No I think we should have them but add nothing else new. NO NEW RACES.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-09, 07:24 AM
No I think we should have them but add nothing else new. NO NEW RACES.

I agree, no new races after the Oaves. That way, we can concentrate on taking the races that we have & making compelling, unique cultures with them, interacting with each other in a myriad of ways.

As is evidenced here in the real world, culture has a larger influence than race (although, to be fair, none of our races differ from each other nearly as much as the separate species found in D&D). We should look at each separate culture in the world of Neve & use that culture to explore debates on philosophy, equality, economy, patriotism, ideals, xenophobia, etc. I think, if we actually, try, we can make each nation on Neve a unique & interesting place, while still maintaining our core themes of positivity & exploration.

Oh, & Moff: I'm ignoring you, too :smallbiggrin: (j/k).

Moff Chumley
2008-07-09, 06:05 PM
I think the easiest and most faux-creative way to go about this is by combining two existing cultures to make a new one.

Dragonborn: Chinese/Egyptian
Dwarves: Russian/Japanese
Eladrin: Southeast Asian/Aztec
Elves: Native American (Southwest)/Greek
Halflings: Gypsy/Native American (Northeast)
Human: Roman/1700 English

Someone else can finish.

Zeta Kai
2008-07-09, 06:40 PM
I think the easiest and most faux-creative way to go about this is by combining two existing cultures to make a new one.

Dragonborn: Chinese/Egyptian
Dwarves: Russian/Japanese
Eladrin: Southeast Asian/Aztec
Elves: Native American (Southwest)/Greek
Halflings: Gypsy/Native American (Northeast)
Human: Roman/1700 English

Someone else can finish.

Although I like this method very much (especially these examples), I was thinking of racial sub-cultures. What I mean is this: not all nations populated by the same race should be alike in social composition. Dwarven Kingdom A may be Russian/Japanese, but Dwarven Rupublic B may be Viking/Thai. The Dragonborn Empire may be Chinese/Egyptian (a great combo, Moff), but some Dragonborn seperatist groups may be Mongol/Babylonian.

This will allow for uniquely-flavored cultures, while providing a myriad of easily-constructed combinations. All you need to do is take 2 cultures (probably from before the early 1800's) from different parts of the world &/or different time periods, & blend them them together as thoroughly as possible, until they form a cohesive whole. I've used similar methods to create game cultures on the fly; it has the benefits of easy description without the detriments of sounding like it's just Halflings in Silly Hats.

ApeofLight
2008-07-10, 07:21 PM
I understand what your saying but I don't think it is that drastic. Example is that dwarven kingdom A is rusian/japanse while dwarven republic B is japanse/viking.

Moff Chumley
2008-07-10, 08:28 PM
I agree with AoL. To separate different nations or cultures, we should keep one aspect from the bass combination, and change the other to something similar but distinct.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-07-10, 09:22 PM
Dragonborn: Chinese/Egyptian << That, is awesome. I wholeheartedly agree.
Dwarves: Russian/Japanese << This, I'm not too sure. What we have so far with the dwarves is basically the stereotypical dwarf, including steampunk and stuff, which really does not fit with this. With the dwarves, I think that we can keep the stereotypical culture, which is not based off of two different RL cultures.
Eladrin: Southeast Asian/Aztec << Again, not too sure. South-east Asian in dress and manner, but Aztec in architecture and stuff? Might work...
Elves: Native American (Southwest)/Greek << How are you envisioning the Greek part to fit in? I have trouble imagining this, though not because I don't like it, I simply can't seem to fit the pieces together in my head.
Halflings: Gypsy/Native American (Northeast) << If by Northeast you mean Great Lakes Region, then maybe. I myself think that a Great Plains aspect would be more fitting.
Human: Roman/1700 English << Oh completely.

Moff Chumley
2008-07-19, 08:07 PM
((Woo, we get our forum back. :smallbiggrin:))
I envisioned the elves having a Greek take on religion and philosophy.