View Full Version : 4e: Temporary Healing Surges

2008-06-10, 07:10 PM
Here's a concept I've been thinking about. Healing Surges granted by Powers and Second Wind should give temporary HP like Sacred Flame, though Surge temp HP stacks with regular temp HP. You can only have 1 set of temporary HP from a surge at a time.

In the mean time, outside of combat, 5 minute rests should grant regular amounts of surge HP, but you can't use Clerical and Warlord powers outside of combat in order to double the effective value of the surges.

This system would limit the overall power of Healing Surges in that they don't make your characters have ridiculous endurances, and reduce dependency on Clerics without weakening the actual bonus they give during combat. Clerics can block a ton of damage in combat, but they can't be used to effectively double the power of your surges, making them indispensable, and rendering your party invincible so long as they're conscious.

2008-06-10, 08:19 PM
Have you run into any particular problems with Healing Surges in combat?

2008-06-10, 08:26 PM
Can't you only use healing surges once per fight, and otherwise, not at all, except for powers? Or are they treated as enounter powers?

2008-06-10, 08:55 PM
You can use as many surges outside of combat as you'd like to and may surge inside of combat whenever an ability allows you to, up to your daily limit. Second Wind is the once per encounter ability that lets you surge.

I'll second Mewtarthio's question. I'd be interested in what experience made you feel such a change is necessary.

2008-06-10, 09:10 PM
While I like that Level 1 heroes are more durable, so long as you have a Cleric in your party to to cast Healing Word and Healing Strike, your party is in no real danger of death unless you foolishly let the Cleric knocked unconscious, unless you are in an encounter at least 3 levels you regular encounter level or more.

See, a Level 1 Cleric will be able to trigger 3 healing surges per combat, and furthermore, Healing Lore means that those Surges will grant about twice as much HP then when triggered by second winds or 5 minute rests. Worse, outside of combat Clerics can cast Healing Word freely, meaning that Surges are practically worth twice as much in a party with a Cleric (or 1.5 times as much with a Warlord) than in a party without one. In combat, its rare to even need to use a second wind more than every other encounter, with the Cleric handy.

You know what, on second thought, how about this: Powers and Second Wind give temporary HP, while Surges outside of combat give regular HP, but prohibit the use of Surge trigger powers outside of combat.

2008-06-10, 09:15 PM
Was there a problem in there somewhere? I'm confused.

2008-06-10, 09:27 PM
Was there a problem in there somewhere? I'm confused.Maybe he's gripping that the cleric is really still a walking box of bandage in 4E?

2008-06-10, 09:43 PM
No, the Cleric is quite capable of frontline combat. In ADDITION to DOUBLING your party's effective hit points.

Take a fighter with 12 surges and 32 HP, not uncommon. A Cleric with 18 wisdom will give 8+4+1d6 HP on average per surge, or 15.5 average heal. That means that the fighter will have 186 HP healed on average.

In my proposal, Clerics can still block a ton of damage, and do it using minor actions or as part of a power rather than the standard action second wind that heals half as much (though it gives defense...), but they can't give your party a massive increase in effective HP. They can keep your characters going until the end of combat, but after that your characters will have to pull themselves together. They can still take a full rest to heal back to full HP and full surges.

2008-06-11, 02:14 AM
Was there a problem in there somewhere? I'm confused.
I am also alittle confused, but I would guess, mostly from the title and first post, that he wants an OK to stack normal healing from Burst in combat with temporary healing so that it wont go to waste while in combat.

Fighter has 24 HP max. A surge is 6 HP heal. With a healer triggering it it would heal for abit more.
Fighter fights a tough opponent but by luck only damaged 8 points. Now a Healing Surge on his own would make full use of the 6 Hp healed. But his buddy, a healer spends a minor action triggering it for him and he would heal 6 + another 6 HP (arbitrary number picked). That would mean 4 HP of that heal are wasted.

The suggestion (as I am guessing) those 4 HP would stack with the fully healed HP of the Fighter so he is supercharged with 24 + 4 temp HP until the encounter is over or he gets damaged (subtracting temp HP first as always) When the encounter is over everyone heals to full and in this case down to 24 HP if he still has temp HP's.

Or maybe that is my idea that I made up and Im just smoothly inserting it. Who knows. :smallwink: