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View Full Version : [4e] Artifacts: "Moving On"



Enlong
2008-06-10, 08:58 PM
In 4th Edition, it's made perfectly clear that one of the most important things about Artifacts is that they are temporary, and that they eventually leave the user. However, I'm having trouble figuring out when the artifact is supposed to "move on". The Axe of the Dwarven Lords and the armor both state "when the user next gains a level" as the exact moment when they move on if they're ready to, but doesn't mention when they're ready to. And the Hand and Eye of Vecna give even less description, not even an "upon next level up". So, is it just plot-based? DM's discretion? If so, anyone have any early rules-of-thumb?

I sort of have an idea for the Hand and Eye. It moves on after the completion of a Ritual used by a Vecna Cult to restore the items back to Vecna. It'd be the final resolution of a plot where a PC decends into madness after claiming the Hand and/or Eye.

Cybren
2008-06-10, 09:03 PM
That doesn't even really make sense to me; an artifact is a DM plot device. A suggestion to their use is one thing but out right 'rules' concerning them seems to be contrary to their function.

Enlong
2008-06-10, 09:10 PM
That doesn't even really make sense to me; an artifact is a DM plot device. A suggestion to their use is one thing but out right 'rules' concerning them seems to be contrary to their function.They really only give you mechanical guidelines about how an Artifact's powers function, as well as introducing you to the mechanic of concordance, which is essentially a numeric representation of how pleased the item is with its user. It outright tells the DM that the artifacts are plot points and that the DM decides if and when the PCs get access to them. Now that I've said that, I've pretty much answered my own question, haven't I? The Artifact Moves On when the plot says it does. I guess I was just a bit worried since the Hand and the Eye kill their user upon Moving On.

Zrinfael
2008-06-10, 09:15 PM
Given the nature of artifacts, incredibly powerful and sentient items with intelligence designed to fulfill a single goal to the exclusion of all else, anyone in possession of one is undoubtedly waist deep in a plot involving the furthering of said artifact's goal. The artifact will be ready to move on precisely when the one who bears it is no longer working to the same ends as the artifact. The artifacts that have a specific move on "date and time" are the good or nice artifacts. You might consider this a sort of grace period the artifact is giving the wielder, tying up loose ends, saying goodbyes, what-have-you. The artifact letting the character make plans for its departure rather than suddenly leaving him weapon/armorless. I imagine the hand and eye of Vecna simply consume their wielder where he stands the moment they no longer wish to be borne by that person.

edit: ninja'd by the OP!

Enlong
2008-06-10, 09:21 PM
Mmmhmmm. That sounds good. I would also think that the item would also Move On once its bearer fulfills its goals for the time being. The Vecna Items were the ones that scared me the most, because how lame would it be for the DM to say "OK, the Eye feels that you've done all it wants of you, so... it leaves to join Vecna again and you die on the spot." when he feels like it? Hence the "Cult of Vecna" plot with a magic ritual that releases the item.

Zrinfael
2008-06-10, 09:33 PM
Ah, well, playing with fire, selling your soul to the devil and all that.

From a player's perspective it does kinda smack of rocks fall, everybody dies, however, we're talking about the body parts of an evil god of death here. I would have to wonder what exactly one would expect to happen when it's done with you. At any rate, I certainly wouldn't allow the player to have the power to refuse the hand or eye the ability to return to Vecna because they don't want to perform a ritual (die).

Enlong
2008-06-10, 09:53 PM
Eh. Well, I'll figure out some form of storyline thing for the Vecna parts if I ever need to use them. Maybe... oh! Maybe upon them attempting to claim some object of ultimate power in the name of Vecna... or something. I need to do something to make the parts Move On without it seeming arbitrary.

bosssmiley
2008-06-11, 07:57 AM
Artefact: "So-and-so is vanquished/imprisoned/freed/restored. My work here is done." (fade out)

Now I have the image of the Axe of the Dwarven Lords checking its diary and hopping merrily off down the road on its way to the next hero.

(Can you believe it? There's no tvtropes page for "My work here is done" :smallconfused:)

black dragoon
2008-06-11, 08:05 AM
Yeah, I really don't like that concept honestly I've seen players make artifacts by simply buffing them up and forming there own religion.:smalltongue:

leperkhaun
2008-06-11, 08:46 AM
Yeah, I really don't like that concept honestly I've seen players make artifacts by simply buffing them up and forming there own religion.:smalltongue:

Thats the DM's fault for allowing it to happen, not the systems. As in 3.5 there werent any guidelines for creating an artifact, any DM that allows a player to do so, is obviously ok with it, and as such its not a big deal.

Artifacts tend to be rather powerful, and most gaming groups never got a hold of them, as they has to DM it away in most cases. In 4E, however players start with the understanding that such items are TEMPORARY, so at least for a little bit you get to use it.

Daracaex
2008-06-11, 09:50 AM
Eh. Well, I'll figure out some form of storyline thing for the Vecna parts if I ever need to use them. Maybe... oh! Maybe upon them attempting to claim some object of ultimate power in the name of Vecna... or something. I need to do something to make the parts Move On without it seeming arbitrary.

Or, since it is an evil item, give it to one of the main villains. Then, just when the party is about to kill the villain, the artifacts intervene and leave him, taking his life with them. Just make sure you do it at a point where the PCs already know they've won so they don't protest that an artifact stole their kill.

Waffles
2008-06-11, 10:20 AM
I personally find mummified remnants of gods in caves and other dark places(such as Wal-Mart) all the time. I'm not connected to any crazy cults either.