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Jayngfet
2008-06-11, 05:33 PM
Idle thought brought me two questions about the tarrasqe.

Sirst, what happens if you cut it in half?

Second, can you wake it up to eat you're enemies with wish or miracle?

brian c
2008-06-11, 05:45 PM
First, what happens if you cut it in half?

It has regeneration, so I suppose the larger half (or the one with more brain) would regenerate and the smaller half would shrivel up. This is just my interpretation, I don't believe there are any specific rules dealing with this so it would be up to the DM.


Second, can you wake it up to eat you're enemies with wish or miracle?

I don't really understand what you're asking, but I think you mean, can you use a Wish or Miracle spell to wake up the Tarrasque from its slumber (as described in the Monster Manual). That sort of usage of Wish or Miracle would depend entirely on the DM; it seems reasonable to me, but keep in mind you'd need to find the Tarrasque's lair first.

marjan
2008-06-11, 05:45 PM
Sirst, what happens if you cut it in half?


Just out of curiosity: How are you planing on doing that?


Regeneration

Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away. The creature’s description includes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.

Creatures with regeneration can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts. Severed parts die if they are not reattached.

Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.

Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage ignore regeneration.

An attack that can cause instant death only threatens the creature with death if it is delivered by weapons that deal it lethal damage.

A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

I hope this answers your question. Basically, one part dies, other is regenerated if the attachment is not possible.



Second, can you wake it up to eat you're enemies with wish or miracle?

DM decision. And I don't think it will be favorable.

marjan
2008-06-11, 05:53 PM
but keep in mind you'd need to find the Tarrasque's lair first.

You don't need to find it's lair. It will probably soften up DM a bit, but it isn't requirement. And even with a soft DM I don't actually see it working.

Innis Cabal
2008-06-11, 05:56 PM
waking it up wont just mean it eats your enemies, it eats everything, you, your enemies, every living screaming thing in the area......id say sure, and then let it kill you and your party for going about things in an illogical and "win button" manner

Frosty
2008-06-11, 05:58 PM
Forget cutting it in half. Terrqasques don't have that big of a Will save do they? Dominate it!!!

ZipZipskins
2008-06-11, 06:00 PM
As a DM, I would absolutely allow that, just for the hilarity of watching it step on the PCs.

Jack Mann
2008-06-11, 06:04 PM
I think most DMs would let you wake up the Tarrasque. No, that's not a problem. The problem is how do you keep it from eating you too (along with those parts of the countryside you'd rather remained).

chiasaur11
2008-06-11, 06:05 PM
Could you make an enlarged decanter of endless soup to keep one of those things fed to prevent it from eating people?

Jayngfet
2008-06-11, 06:06 PM
Alright, lets assume someone with a magic blade big enough and sharp enough makes and int, str, and dex check with lead dice set to 20(completely hypothetical), and cuts it dead center, neither side is discernibly bigger, not even the gods could tell you if you want a high level cleric to ask.

Frosty
2008-06-11, 06:12 PM
Then the gods flip a coin.

weenie
2008-06-11, 06:15 PM
Alright, lets assume someone with a magic blade big enough and sharp enough makes and int, str, and dex check with lead dice set to 20(completely hypothetical), and cuts it dead center, neither side is discernibly bigger, not even the gods could tell you if you want a high level cleric to ask.

Both sides would regenerate. :smalleek:

No, seriously. The thing is magical. the piece to regenerate would be probably chosen at random or something. I must say this somewhat reminds me of collision protocols though.

marjan
2008-06-11, 06:35 PM
Alright, lets assume someone with a magic blade big enough and sharp enough makes and int, str, and dex check with lead dice set to 20(completely hypothetical), and cuts it dead center, neither side is discernibly bigger, not even the gods could tell you if you want a high level cleric to ask.

The regeneration description doesn't even state that the larger part of the body gets to be regenerated, which means it will regenerate the same part as when they are not equal - random part I believe.

monty
2008-06-11, 07:02 PM
Alright, lets assume someone with a magic blade big enough and sharp enough makes and int, str, and dex check with lead dice set to 20(completely hypothetical), and cuts it dead center, neither side is discernibly bigger, not even the gods could tell you if you want a high level cleric to ask.

Living things aren't perfectly symmetrical. Pick whichever side has more vital organs and whatnot.

Admiral Squish
2008-06-11, 07:03 PM
If you were to lop off an arm, then disintegrate the rest, would the arm become a new tarrasque if left alone?

ArmorArmadillo
2008-06-11, 07:05 PM
Well, if it behaves like similar real-world animals, both sides would regenerate into a new tarrasque.

Starfish have been known to grow into two complete animals if bisected.

Collin152
2008-06-11, 07:09 PM
Well, if it behaves like similar real-world animals, both sides would regenerate into a new tarrasque.

Starfish have been known to grow into two complete animals if bisected.

Thus discrediting the idea of Starfish minds. Or souls. Well, it disproves something.

monty
2008-06-11, 07:09 PM
If you were to lop off an arm, then disintegrate the rest, would the arm become a new tarrasque if left alone?

Detached appendages wither and die, if I remember right.

Innis Cabal
2008-06-11, 07:11 PM
The world explodes....

monty
2008-06-11, 07:15 PM
I seem to remember something a while ago about using a device to keep the Tarrasque perpetually unconscious and cut off parts of it to sell as food.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-06-11, 07:42 PM
If you were to lop off an arm, then disintegrate the rest, would the arm become a new tarrasque if left alone?

Couple of problems with that:

1)
Carapace (Ex)
The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.
So you've got basically a 1 in 3 chance of disintegrating yourself.

2)
spell resistance 32. Okay, this is do-able, if you've got ways to cheeze CL, but still...

3)
Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability. Emphasis mine. Disintegrate doesn't destroy it.

Innis Cabal
2008-06-11, 07:45 PM
Couple of problems with that:

1)
So you've got basically a 1 in 3 chance of disintegrating yourself.

2) . Okay, this is do-able, if you've got ways to cheeze CL, but still...

3) Emphasis mine. Disintegrate doesn't destroy it.

@ number 2, all you need to do is roll a 12.....thats it...

SilentNight
2008-06-11, 07:54 PM
Forget cutting it in half. Terrqasques don't have that big of a Will save do they? Dominate it!!!

'Cept for the carapace. You've got a 1 in 3 chance of it dominating you. :smalltongue:

monty
2008-06-11, 08:00 PM
'Cept for the carapace. You've got a 1 in 3 chance of it dominating you. :smalltongue:

Am I the only one that immediately thought, "In Soviet Russia..." when I saw that?

Anyway, I assume you're talking about this carapace:

The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.

Dominate is not a ray, line, cone, or magic missile; therefore, it is not reflected.

marjan
2008-06-11, 08:07 PM
Dominate is not magic missile

Though I would like to see someone dominated with MM. :smallbiggrin:

shadowdemon_lord
2008-06-11, 08:21 PM
I can see it now.

Wizard: don't eat me!
Tarrasque: gets a new save, fails.
Wizard: don't eat the fighter either.
Tarrasque: gets a save.
Wizard: no don't eat that house.
Tarrasque: gets a save.

Stupid "can't go against it's nature without a save" clause in the dominate effect.

Chronos
2008-06-11, 08:28 PM
The regeneration description doesn't even state that the larger part of the body gets to be regenerated, which means it will regenerate the same part as when they are not equal - random part I believe.I can just see it... The mighty adventurer, after a long and grueling fight, finally manages to slay the Tarrasque. He cuts off the tip of one of its horns, and takes it home as a trophy. A few days later, it finishes regenerating back, and eats him in his sleep.

marjan
2008-06-11, 08:38 PM
I can just see it... The mighty adventurer, after a long and grueling fight, finally manages to slay the Tarrasque. He cuts off the tip of one of its horns, and takes it home as a trophy. A few days later, it finishes regenerating back, and eats him in his sleep.

I can see your players hating you. :smallcool:

RS14
2008-06-11, 08:40 PM
Both sides would regenerate. :smalleek:

No, seriously. The thing is magical. the piece to regenerate would be probably chosen at random or something. I must say this somewhat reminds me of collision protocols though.

This got me thinking... How about a 50% chance of each half regenerating? By cutting it in half, you've got a 25% chance of duplicating it, a 25% chance of killing it permanently, and a 50% chance of only one half regenerating.

Jack Mann
2008-06-11, 09:39 PM
I seem to remember something a while ago about using a device to keep the Tarrasque perpetually unconscious and cut off parts of it to sell as food.

Yep! Two ways to do this. One is to wrestle it down and secure it, in the classic example with huge rods enchanted to act as immovable rods set through the tarrasque's body. The other is to use allips to drain its wisdom. Doesn't take too long, and pretty soon it's comatose, so long as no one tries casting restoration on it.

As far as dominate monster goes, the tarrasque has a +20 will save. Granted, that's its weak save, but it still has a fair chance against most casters. The spell resistance, honestly, isn't that much for any caster capable of casting dominate monster. Just add in an assay spell resistance, and you'll probably make it through.

tugrulbuyukisik
2008-06-11, 10:25 PM
if a very intelligent species(dragon,titan,all brainiacs) could cut it in half by absolut symmetry,
both parts would die(i think) because there could be only 1 tarrasque
no need for wish :D
i mean cutting in half at an atomic degree only done by 40+ int-creatures(ancienty dragon)
-------------------------------------------------
ok im sorry about that planescape. i know from old monsters manual 3.0 or 3.5 i cant remember, there could be only 1 tarrasque in time(idk planescape sorry)

Mewtarthio
2008-06-11, 10:35 PM
I seem to remember something a while ago about using a device to keep the Tarrasque perpetually unconscious and cut off parts of it to sell as food.

You talking about "The city built around the Tarrasque" (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=261519)?


if a very intelligent species(dragon,titan,all brainiacs) could cut it in half by absolut symmetry,
both parts would die(i think) because there could be only 1 tarrasque
no need for wish :D
i mean cutting in half at an atomic degree only done by 40+ int-creatures(ancienty dragon)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Planescape have an entire Planet of the Tarrasques?

Also, if the Tarrasque is cut precisely in half, time immediately freezes, and Tarrasquiar, the Tarrasque God of the Tarrasques, is summoned to decided which half regenerates. Since Tarrasquiar is himself a Tarrasque, he just eats the offending planet and carries on as usual.

Collin152
2008-06-11, 10:44 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Planescape have an entire Planet of the Tarrasques?


I will refrain from a planet of the apes joke.

But, with that, Tarrasque becomes a valid Shapechange form.

Mewtarthio
2008-06-11, 10:55 PM
But, with that, Tarrasque becomes a valid Shapechange form.

Sure, if you can get around the 48 HD. Even if you could get that kind of caster level pre-epic, shapechange has a hard 25 HD cap.

Collin152
2008-06-11, 10:59 PM
Sure, if you can get around the 48 HD. Even if you could get that kind of caster level pre-epic, shapechange has a hard 25 HD cap.

Dang.
All I ever needed to care about was the "no unique creatures" thing...

tugrulbuyukisik
2008-06-11, 11:04 PM
if tarrasque has a heart and it is on the left, then attackers from left of it should get bonus critical threat range bonus otherwise the tarrasque must be symmetric.

Occasional Sage
2008-06-11, 11:09 PM
if tarrasque has a heart and it is on the left, then attackers from left of it should get bonus critical threat range bonus otherwise the tarrasque must be symmetric.

But Jupiter being in the Third House right now cancels that effect. Unless Unicorns are wild, in which case the combatant to the North automatically...

Myth references aside, that's not D&D combat. At least, not in any rules set I've seen. D&D abstracts things waaaay more than that, as do *most* RPGs.

marjan
2008-06-11, 11:12 PM
if tarrasque has a heart and it is on the left, then attackers from left of it should get bonus critical threat range bonus otherwise the tarrasque must be symmetric.

And which one would be on the left side?

tugrulbuyukisik
2008-06-11, 11:22 PM
and i also wonder if someone could cast an enlarge spell when in its cave, does it stuck with same shape? or just shape-change in to a cave-worm-like creature because of pressure?

Uthug
2008-06-11, 11:25 PM
How would you go about cutting the tarrasqe in half in the first place? I don't think there are rules for that but never-mind. In the case of the guy cutting off its horn, well it would just be his own fault for not using wish to finish it off in the first place.

monty
2008-06-11, 11:59 PM
if tarrasque has a heart and it is on the left, then attackers from left of it should get bonus critical threat range bonus otherwise the tarrasque must be symmetric.

D&D DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!:smallbiggrin:

If you assumed that, then wouldn't the same be true for humans (probably other species as well, but I don't know anything about dwarven anatomy)?

Jack Mann
2008-06-12, 02:29 AM
if tarrasque has a heart and it is on the left, then attackers from left of it should get bonus critical threat range bonus otherwise the tarrasque must be symmetric.

Reductio absurdum. A fallacy. To disprove this logic under D&D, consider that a human's heart is demonstrably on the left side. However, if I were to stab at you from your left, I would receive no such bonus to critical hits under 3.5 rules. Of course, this ignores the fact that there is no facing, and thus I cannot, as a practical matter, stand to your left. Instead, there is an equal probability that I stand on any given side of you, until the waveform is collapsed, typically by you trying to smack me. Or else when I set you on fire and you run, flailing about wildly in hopes of extinguishing the flames that consume you.


and i also wonder if someone could cast an enlarge spell when in its cave, does it stuck with same shape? or just shape-change in to a cave-worm-like creature because of pressure?

Enlarge, and effects like it, cannot harm a creature in this fashion. Either it bursts out of the cave with a strength check, or it grows no larger.

Eldariel
2008-06-12, 05:51 AM
Average 20th level caster has: 18+5+5+6=34 primary casting stat (+2 potentially from race and maybe +1-+2 from age). That makes for +31 Will-saves on 9th level spells. And that's before any focus-feats and the sort. It's easy enough to Dominate a Tarrasque with enough levels.

Of course, since an average 9th level party is perfectly capable of slaying the beast, the benefits of dominating it are quite questionable.

By the way, turns out the Tarrasque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tarasque_float_(front).jpg) is actually Lavos (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/84/Lavos_shell.jpg)! Now we just need to give it the Spike Attack and it'll be a legimate threat!

Heliomance
2008-06-12, 06:58 AM
How does one go about subduing the tarrasque? In our party, we have a dwarven fighter who will eventually be picking up a particular homebrewed feat. This feat requires being a 20th level dwarf, but allows you to forge abstract concepts. The upshot of this is that if we can get the tarrasque helpless beside a forge, he can forge its regeneration, carapace, DR, immunities, etc into a suit of armour. So what's the best way of doing this?

bosssmiley
2008-06-12, 07:09 AM
How does one go about subduing the tarrasque?

Didn't someone (either here, or on ENWorld) spec out a Tarrasque Wrangler build with an effective grapple mod of >+100? Ah ha! Tarrasque Rodeo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19834)

And Tarrasque-burg was a great idea. :smallcool:

DigoDragon
2008-06-12, 07:52 AM
Hmm... If my players figured out a way to cleave the Tarrasque in half I'd be more worried about what their next victim would be. :smallbiggrin:

PCs: "Yes, we cleaved the Terrasque in half with one blow!"
DM: "... If I give you all the EXP now, will you promise not to do that again?"

But if I had to vote on an answer I'd say only half regenerates. Which half? Eh, I'd flip a coin. Keep it simple, right?

hamishspence
2008-06-12, 07:59 AM
separated bits regenerating was in pre-3rd ed novels, but disappeared in 3rd ed (for good reasons). Specifically, in book 3 of the second Moonshae trilogy, the troll repeatedly chops off his fingers with a magical weapon (ouch!) and they grow into young trolls. The Crystal Shard and subsequent books suggested that severed limbs could still attack you.