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View Full Version : [4e] Harbrock Heavyhammer - Cleric of Kord (Suggestions welcome)



SamTheCleric
2008-06-12, 07:40 AM
What was it that the chancellor said in V for Vendetta? "Strength through Unity. Unity through Faith." ?

That is the idea behind my dwarven cleric of Kord, Harbrock of clan Heavyhammer. He is a battle cleric that wades to the front lines and smiting things for great justice, though he's not quite as fanatical as a paladin might be. Wielding a Maul in two hands, chainmail and a few throwing hammers, he makes every dwarf momma proud.

My problem? I'm not 100% satisfied with the stats.

Base: Str 15 Con 13 Dex 10 Int 12 Wis 15 Cha 11

Con becomes 15 and Wisdom 17 from dwarven racial adjustments. I know a lot of people don't like odd numbers... and I'm sort of one of them... but I wanted a good mix between Str, Con and Wisdom. That, and Str and Con both need to be 15 if I eventually want to upgrade to Plate Armor (though Scale may be just fine).

Starting Feat: Dwarven Weapon Training (training with all axes and hammers, +2 feat bonus on damage with said weapons... so my Maul is 2d6+2 before str added in).

Thoughts?

Xefas
2008-06-12, 07:46 AM
Well, you have the Dwarven Alliteration down, so I see no problem with the name.

How long is the game you're using him in going to run for? Do you think you'll get to the Paragon Tier?

Just asking for the sake of Paragon Paths...

SamTheCleric
2008-06-12, 07:46 AM
I'll be using him in Living Forgotten Realms... so... hopefully I'll be playing him a long time.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-06-12, 07:55 AM
How'd you get your stats? If you're using the point-buy I see in the PHB, maybe you should drop your wisdom to 14 and use those two points to buff your strength to 16. Then after modifiers you'll have Con 15 and Wis 16. Use your stat-up on Con and Cha and you'll be all even again.

Otherwise, I'll need to see the system you're using for ability scores to help.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-12, 07:58 AM
I picked the grouping of stats off of the chart in the PHB right after the point buy... :)

Fronko
2008-06-12, 08:00 AM
As for your stats, they seem fine. At level four, increase WIS and either STR or CON (whatever you believe, you need more - resilience or damage). After that, use the two points every four levels to upgrade one even and one odd score.

Myshlaevsky
2008-06-12, 08:01 AM
How'd you get your stats? If you're using the point-buy I see in the PHB, maybe you should drop your wisdom to 14 and use those two points to buff your strength to 16. Then after modifiers you'll have Con 15 and Wis 16. Use your stat-up on Con and Cha and you'll be all even again.

Otherwise, I'll need to see the system you're using for ability scores to help.

This seems like a good idea. Most of your early powers are strength vs. AC anyway.

Charity
2008-06-12, 08:03 AM
What are you planning to do with that Int of 12 Sam?
I would take Dex over Int as it adds to your initiative.

It's two feats to get to plate, that means you will have a stat boost before you need 15's I would go for a 16 and a 14 for the initial benifits.

Also taking toughness as a lvl 1 feat is strong, as you can retrain it at 2nd and get your dwarven weapon bonus, 5HP makes more difference at 1st level than at any other time.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-12, 08:03 AM
Hmm. So it'd be

Str 16
Con 15
Dex 10
Int 12
Wis 16
Cha 11

..

That's doable. I gain +1 to my fort defense that way as well without losing out on my will.

Level 4 could bump both con and charisma to bring them to even numbers... then just focus on increasing str and wis...


What are you planning to do with that Int of 12 Sam?
I would take Dex over Int as it adds to your initiative.

Religion is based off Int and I don't want to kill my party members with a bad roll on a remove disease. :)

Charity
2008-06-12, 08:17 AM
OK, I'd forgotten about that one, though the +5 training will dwarf that bonus (pardon the pun)
Also toughness puts you on the magic divisible by 4 number of HP which is always good.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-12, 08:21 AM
hmm, if I take toughness over dwarven weapon training I gain +5 hit points, but my damage goes down to 1d10+4 (from 2d6+5)...

(Warhammer in two hands vs Maul w/ weapon training)

Average Damages 9.5 vs 12.

Cleric HP is ... 10+con score? So that'd take me up to 31 HP...

*ponders*

Oracle_Hunter
2008-06-12, 08:23 AM
Meh, Dex is relatively useless for a heavy armor cleric. Int's nice for those Knowledge checks you need not just for rituals, but for skill challenges :smallbiggrin:

I'd like to note, that like the PHB says, for a brawlin' cleric Wisdom isn't all it used to be. I think you'd be happier focusing on strength since it's good for hitting and damaging with that nice maul of yours, and most of the WIS powers are ranged, meaning you'll provoke OA's if you try using them while you're in the front line.

For kicks, think about getting Fast Runner: a 7 move dwarf while charging is totally worth the feat!

EDIT: Probably want toughness first, of course. As a front-line guy, you're already 3 behind the base for Defenders, so that +5 is going to help make sure you can take the punishment. Healing Word is your friend, but brawlin' clerics can't make much use of the "support" ranged powers like Sacred Flame quite as well, so healing is going to be left mainly to your leader.

Myshlaevsky
2008-06-12, 08:25 AM
32. It's 12+CON. It's a good idea - the Toughness feat does matter more at 1st level than at any other time, and is probably more valuable than the excess damage at this level. You can retrain it out at 2nd level, too.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-12, 08:26 AM
I'm thinking that I'll also be the primary healer for the group... so the +3 from healer's lore will be good...

There are also a couple of powers that get things based off of wisdom.

Hmm. Its possible to drop wisdom to a 14 (well, 12 base +2 racial).. and not lose too much. I'd lower my Will defense to a 14... maybe jack up Int a bit to get me higher than an 11 reflex defense?

Charity
2008-06-12, 08:29 AM
12+con score I thought sam.
12 + 15 (con) + 5 = 32 bloodied 16 and Healing surge for 8, I understand you'll do less damage, but I figure it will just as often be overkill anyhow...
I'd keep the wisdom to be honest.

A shield could help your reflex sam, and face it somethings gotta give, you'll just have to suck up those reflex hits, though thats even more feats... and I seem to recall you need dex for shields...

Myshlaevsky
2008-06-12, 08:29 AM
If you're grabbing shield training you'll get that as a bonus to your reflex defense. You're not, don't know why I thought that. Still, you don't dodge, you're a dwarf.

I think the stats are good the way they are now. Most of your powers are based off strength, but like you say, the Healer's Lore and later powers mean it's handy to have a good wisdom

Oracle_Hunter
2008-06-12, 08:31 AM
I'm thinking that I'll also be the primary healer for the group... so the +3 from healer's lore will be good...

There are also a couple of powers that get things based off of wisdom.

Hmm. Its possible to drop wisdom to a 14 (well, 12 base +2 racial).. and not lose too much. I'd lower my Will defense to a 14... maybe jack up Int a bit to get me higher than an 11 reflex defense?

If you're going to be the primary healer, you'll need to invest in Sacred Flame. Temporary HP as an At-Will is really, really nice.

But there, you need to re-work your build. It's time to fish or cut bait, really.

Also, think about the Paladin - no longer do they have to be lawful-anything, they're just knights templar for the church of your choice.

EDIT: Paladins are sweet. Divine Challenge makes sure the baddies stay stuck to you, and Bolstering Strike is a CHA attack that does [W]+CHA and gives you WIS bonus Temp HP. Plus they're already proficient with plate :smallbiggrin:

SamTheCleric
2008-06-12, 08:32 AM
Yeah, eventually I'd like shield training.

Hmm. Ok. 16/15/10/12/16/11.

Toughness over Dwarven Weapon Training.

Level 2, retrain out of toughness and pick up light shield proficiency and scale armor proficiency. Switch to wielding the warhammer in one hand.

Not a terrible plan.

Charity
2008-06-12, 08:36 AM
seems like a plan, shield feats > armour feats as they add to two defences.


EDIT: Paladins are sweet. Divine Challenge makes sure the baddies stay stuck to you, and Bolstering Strike is a CHA attack that does [W]+CHA and gives you WIS bonus Temp HP. Plus they're already proficient with plate :smallbiggrin:

Then he has to worry about Cha as well, though he could sod the Cha powers and multiclass into Cleric for a bit of healing, though I don't think he will cut it as the primary healer.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-06-12, 08:39 AM
Yeah, eventually I'd like shield training.

Hmm. Ok. 16/15/10/12/16/11.

Toughness over Dwarven Weapon Training.

Level 2, retrain out of toughness and pick up light shield proficiency and scale armor proficiency. Switch to wielding the warhammer in one hand.

Not a terrible plan.

Bwah? Shield training? Are you a brawler or a defender here? If you're a defender, grab shield training first, swap some more points in CHA from STR for Sacred Flame and play midfield. A Heavy Shield gives you +2 to AC and Reflex, and since you can play "Shift around the Meatshield" you don't need to be taking most of the lumps. Use a warhammer (or battleaxe!) from the start.

If you want to keep with the brawler, stick with your STR, Maul, and Toughness. Start climbing up the armor tree to Plate and then pick up Dwarven Weapon Training somewhere down the line.

Be careful about trying to be everything at once.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-12, 08:40 AM
I was actually planning on taking some Paladin Multiclass feats and the paragon path of Angelic Avenger.

Supah Battle Cleric!

:)

I want to be able to hold my own in melee, be seen as a threat... and pop off the healing word as needed.

Encounter Power: Healing Strike
Daily: Avenging Flames

(Dont remember the name of the two at-wills)

Also... I really like Kord's Channel Divinity, if you or an ally score a critical hit, that person can spend a healing surge... and its a power with the "healing" keyword, so they would get your wisdom on top of the healing surge value. So many feats to take!

Charity: You bring up a good point, I am trying to do too much at once. I'll retrain toughness into Scale Armor Prof and pick up Dwarven Weapon Training for the Maul. Kord doesnt want me to defend, he wants me to attack like the wild storm! RAAAWR!

Morty
2008-06-12, 09:17 AM
I don't have any sort of mechanical advice, but I don't think Kord is a Forgotten Realms diety unless there's been a change I don't know about. Or am I missing something?

SamTheCleric
2008-06-12, 09:23 AM
I don't have any sort of mechanical advice, but I don't think Kord is a Forgotten Realms diety unless there's been a change I don't know about. Or am I missing something?

I just went with Kord because he's in the PHB. The diety may change once I get my paws on the FRCS.... though I can't see them shunting off all the PHB gods completely.

Its possible though.

Morty
2008-06-12, 09:28 AM
I just went with Kord because he's in the PHB. The diety may change once I get my paws on the FRCS.... though I can't see them shunting off all the PHB gods completely.

Its possible though.

Well, FR has got its own pantheon in 3ed -only the main racial gods are the same as in PHB- and I'd expect it to stay the same in 4ed, even if there are massive changes in it. So I'd wait with choosing gods until you get a FR rulebook.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-13, 09:10 AM
Hmm. After some talking with the local group, it sounds like we already have 3 people playing the leader role...

but only one defender.

So I'm going to scrap poor ole Harbrock (or put him on the backburner as an alternate)

And make a fighter.

Back to the drawing board!