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View Full Version : Enthrall... an odd finding.



SamTheCleric
2008-06-12, 11:36 AM
Ok, I've slowly been reading every spell description for level 2 bard spells and stopped at enthrall and scratched my head.

Here is the SRD entry for the spell:

Enthrall
Enchantment (Charm) [Language Dependent, Mind-Affecting, Sonic]
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Any number of creatures
Duration: 1 hour or less
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

If you have the attention of a group of creatures, you can use this spell to hold them spellbound. To cast the spell, you must speak or sing without interruption for 1 full round. Thereafter, those affected give you their undivided attention, ignoring their surroundings. They are considered to have an attitude of friendly while under the effect of the spell. Any potentially affected creature of a race or religion unfriendly to yours gets a +4 bonus on the saving throw.

A creature with 4 or more HD or with a Wisdom score of 16 or higher remains aware of its surroundings and has an attitude of indifferent. It gains a new saving throw if it witnesses actions that it opposes.

The effect lasts as long as you speak or sing, to a maximum of 1 hour. Those enthralled by your words take no action while you speak or sing and for 1d3 rounds thereafter while they discuss the topic or performance. Those entering the area during the performance must also successfully save or become enthralled. The speech ends (but the 1d3-round delay still applies) if you lose concentration or do anything other than speak or sing.

If those not enthralled have unfriendly or hostile attitudes toward you, they can collectively make a Charisma check to try to end the spell by jeering and heckling. For this check, use the Charisma bonus of the creature with the highest Charisma in the group; others may make Charisma checks to assist. The heckling ends the spell if this check result beats your Charisma check result. Only one such challenge is allowed per use of the spell.

If any member of the audience is attacked or subjected to some other overtly hostile act, the spell ends and the previously enthralled members become immediately unfriendly toward you. Each creature with 4 or more HD or with a Wisdom score of 16 or higher becomes hostile.

The specific part that made me go "huh" is this:


Those enthralled by your words take no action while you speak or sing and for 1d3 rounds thereafter while they discuss the topic or performance.

1d3 rounds?! They stand around discussing the topics for 6-18 seconds? I'm lucky if I can even express my feelings about something in less than a minute! If they would've left off the "while they discuss.." business, it'd be fine. But since they quantified what the time is spent doing... it makes me utterly confused. I mean... if one hobgoblin is in the middle of a dissertation on how the performance harkened back to his boyhood where his father would play a similar tune on the pipes and it really touched him emotionally... would he stop in the middle of his speech to turn to the PC and go

"WHAT?! I HATE YOU!!!" and charge?

Anyway... I just through I'd share.

Occasional Sage
2008-06-12, 11:46 AM
Ok, I've slowly been reading every spell description for level 2 bard spells and stopped at enthrall and scratched my head.

Here is the SRD entry for the spell:

Enthrall
Enchantment (Charm) [Language Dependent, Mind-Affecting, Sonic]
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Any number of creatures
Duration: 1 hour or less
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

If you have the attention of a group of creatures, you can use this spell to hold them spellbound. To cast the spell, you must speak or sing without interruption for 1 full round. Thereafter, those affected give you their undivided attention, ignoring their surroundings. They are considered to have an attitude of friendly while under the effect of the spell. Any potentially affected creature of a race or religion unfriendly to yours gets a +4 bonus on the saving throw.

A creature with 4 or more HD or with a Wisdom score of 16 or higher remains aware of its surroundings and has an attitude of indifferent. It gains a new saving throw if it witnesses actions that it opposes.

The effect lasts as long as you speak or sing, to a maximum of 1 hour. Those enthralled by your words take no action while you speak or sing and for 1d3 rounds thereafter while they discuss the topic or performance. Those entering the area during the performance must also successfully save or become enthralled. The speech ends (but the 1d3-round delay still applies) if you lose concentration or do anything other than speak or sing.

If those not enthralled have unfriendly or hostile attitudes toward you, they can collectively make a Charisma check to try to end the spell by jeering and heckling. For this check, use the Charisma bonus of the creature with the highest Charisma in the group; others may make Charisma checks to assist. The heckling ends the spell if this check result beats your Charisma check result. Only one such challenge is allowed per use of the spell.

If any member of the audience is attacked or subjected to some other overtly hostile act, the spell ends and the previously enthralled members become immediately unfriendly toward you. Each creature with 4 or more HD or with a Wisdom score of 16 or higher becomes hostile.

The specific part that made me go "huh" is this:



1d3 rounds?! They stand around discussing the topics for 6-18 seconds? I'm lucky if I can even express my feelings about something in less than a minute! If they would've left off the "while they discuss.." business, it'd be fine. But since they quantified what the time is spent doing... it makes me utterly confused. I mean... if one hobgoblin is in the middle of a dissertation on how the performance harkened back to his boyhood where his father would play a similar tune on the pipes and it really touched him emotionally... would he stop in the middle of his speech to turn to the PC and go

"WHAT?! I HATE YOU!!!" and charge?

Anyway... I just through I'd share.

Um... he realizes he was manipulated, and gets pissed? I guess?

Mushroom Ninja
2008-06-12, 01:35 PM
Ahh, but if you have a couple of rogues in the party, he relizes that he's been manipulated while he and his buddies are lying on the ground with slit throats:smallsmile:

Inyssius Tor
2008-06-12, 02:46 PM
Um... he realizes he was manipulated, and gets pissed? I guess?

"And then, I--oh ho ho! You sly dog--you got me monologuing!"

Kurald Galain
2008-06-12, 03:59 PM
I think this is a remnant from second edition, where a combat round lasted one minute.

(which was houseruled to five or six seconds by just about everybody, since striking one blow per minute is just plain silly, but the rulebook said one minute).

drengnikrafe
2008-06-12, 11:20 PM
I think this is a remnant from second edition, where a combat round lasted one minute.

(which was houseruled to five or six seconds by just about everybody, since striking one blow per minute is just plain silly, but the rulebook said one minute).

TheGrimace would be proud of me here...

An attack in one round is not a single attack, but rather a short chain of combat. It's not a single swing of the sword, but a short conflict. You make an arc with your sword, and smash into your opponant's suddenly well-placed shield, throwing him off balance. He tries to attack back, but just gets thrown further off balance. Then, you slash him at his waist, hit, and watch as blood spatters out.
A minute is reasonable, if you just extend the combat.
You charge at hit, sword drawn and ready. He backs up, and fights defensively for a short time, before a vicious counterattack. Just when it appears he has you pined (after a good 20 seconds of combat), you make a careful kick, and shoot him back. You swing viciously a few times, all of them bouncing off his shield, which he moves with the swiftness of the wind. You make a vicious stab, and you pierce right through his armor. You wiggle your sword inside of him for effect, then draw it out viciuosly. 40 seconds have passed, and you have enough time for a move action.

Mind you, these describe a single attack roll.

Lapak
2008-06-12, 11:36 PM
Mind you, these describe a single attack roll....which was all very well and good until you applied it to ranged combat. Two lines of archers firing at each other don't take a minute to line up each volley. :smallwink:

DarknessLord
2008-06-12, 11:42 PM
...which was all very well and good until you applied it to ranged combat. Two lines of archers firing at each other don't take a minute to line up each volley. :smallwink:

And they only use one Arrow, per attack (I think...) so the multipliable attack theory doesn't work...

Unless you mean to say they wait a minute to take the perfect shot... Every time?

It's a good concept, but just gets silly in execution.

marjan
2008-06-12, 11:48 PM
Unless you mean to say they wait a minute to take the perfect shot... Every time?


Or maybe when archer A misses archer B, B picks up A's arrow and fires it back at him, and so on... for a minute.

drengnikrafe
2008-06-12, 11:52 PM
Ranged combat makes sense too!

You have to remove the arrow from the quiver, knock (sp?) the arrow on the bow, put the bow into firing position, get your aim, pull back the bowstring, aim the bow again... Factor in the wind speed, the placement of their armor, and wait for them to stop moving around. Wait for that perfect shot, the one where all the factors line up right, and you won't be wasting that arrow. Then, relsase the arrow, and let it fly forward, which takes time in and of itself. Remember, it's a standard action, not a full round action, so we're only talking 35-40 seconds to find this absolutely perfect shot. Arrows don't have as much driving force, you have to make sure to get it just right...

I reenforce this with magic. It makes sense that it would take more then 4 seconds to alter the very fabric of the universe, no matter how good you are.

Have you seen boffing fights, with bows and arrows? If you factor in all that, plus wind and armor... it already takes a good 15-20 seconds to fire a good arrow, but from 150 feet away, with perfect aim, shooting for the chink in the armor... I'm telling you, it works.

Saph
2008-06-13, 05:21 AM
1d3 rounds?! They stand around discussing the topics for 6-18 seconds? I'm lucky if I can even express my feelings about something in less than a minute! If they would've left off the "while they discuss.." business, it'd be fine. But since they quantified what the time is spent doing... it makes me utterly confused.

I'd say that they might stand around and discuss it for minutes, or even hours. 1d3 rounds is just the length of time they have to discuss it.

After that, they'll stop being completely oblivious of their surroundings, but if there's nothing pressing going on and they enjoyed the performance, there's no reason for them not to keep talking. :)

- Saph

Blanks
2008-06-17, 08:45 AM
And they only use one Arrow, per attack (I think...) so the multipliable attack theory doesn't work...

Unless you mean to say they wait a minute to take the perfect shot... Every time?

It's a good concept, but just gets silly in execution.
The 6 second combat round makes so much more sense. Like how my great cleaving fighter can kill 8 people in 6 seconds! or make them smaller sized, the numbers go up!
Or how a really tough fight last almost a half minute. At least that explains how you never get tired from fighting, killing a dragon takes less time than it takes to tie my shoelaces.

:smallwink: