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historycrusader
2008-06-13, 02:07 PM
Maybe it's the smart-aleck in me, but this morning as I was flipping through my new PHB before work, I realized the computer game that 4e seems closest to isn't WoW, it's Guild Wars.

I'll elaborate: Classes have powers, which have recharge times. You can only have so many powers at one time, but you can swap the out for different ones, multi-classing gives you access to some feats from the other class, but not the whole thing, armor types, etc.

Given, it may be superficial, but it seems closer than the similarity to WoW.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-06-13, 02:40 PM
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/thumb/c/c0/Koss.jpg/128px-Koss.jpg

I think my name makes a fine battle cry. "Sorrow!" What do you think?

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2008-06-13, 03:18 PM
IT'S PEOPLE! SOYLENT 4E IS PEEEEOOPLLLLLLEEE!

Or - um ... maybe not.

Kurald Galain
2008-06-13, 04:55 PM
You know, I'm pretty sure 4E has turned into Monopoly. Because it has these dice, you know, and you can move your character around and buy stuff! What a ripoff...

brian c
2008-06-13, 05:02 PM
You know, I'm pretty sure 4E has turned into Monopoly. Because it has these dice, you know, and you can move your character around and buy stuff! What a ripoff...

Boardwalk is way overpowered; I'm waiting for them to nerf it in 4.5, also made railroads better because right now they're only good early in the game.


(by the way, general advice: never play Monopoly with Economics grad students. Ruined the fun.)

JaxGaret
2008-06-13, 05:15 PM
4e isn't WoW, it's D&D.

:smallamused:

EvilElitest
2008-06-13, 05:19 PM
Personally, i think 4E is like a lot of video games, not WoW in particular, nor MMOs. It does share a lot of qualities and the flatness of video games and limits itself unnecessarily. Through it has a few qualities of Dominic Deegan in term of the caste system
from
EE

Xuincherguixe
2008-06-13, 05:49 PM
Oh, I'll play

4e isn't WoW, its...
-Everquest
-A spatula
-The fries you got with that
-An enraged badger
-A conspiracy of Ravens
-That large crop of Asparagus
-Antagonistic electric stars that breathe murder
-Antagonistic electric stars that breathe gerbils
-A diet coke
-An accurate horse thief simulation
-An excuse to teach trees Kung Fu
-A cunning plan
-The wolf that will swallow the sun, and the wolf that will swallow the moon
-A form of Blank Media that will replace DVDs.
-What will bring world peace
-What will end world hunger
-A large squirrel with a saddle that one can ride on
-The Dragon who arranged it's own assassination

I'm sure I could go on, but I won't.

Ozymandias
2008-06-13, 05:49 PM
It shares many similarities with computer games, especially computer RPGs.

Because, you know, they're both games.

The most fundamental difference between Tabletop RPGs and CRPGs is in limitations. The most fundamental limitation was, has been, and remains, that computers cannot improvise or create like humans can. 4e is simpler (whether less turgid or more simplistic is wholly a matter of opinion) than 3e but has not changed in this most basic regard.

Glawackus
2008-06-13, 05:54 PM
...DDO!

There is a ten character minimum.

FoE
2008-06-13, 05:55 PM
... over nine thousand!

JaxGaret
2008-06-13, 06:10 PM
-An accurate horse thief simulation

I want, nay, need to play this.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-13, 06:12 PM
... Matrix Online!

I mean, the books say that Neo is the one and that if you cast the Oracle ritual, she'll tell you so... and maybe give you a cookie. And there are these guys, they are called Agents, they are Solo monsters that don't like people messing with their cool magic.

...

What?

:smallbiggrin:

chiasaur11
2008-06-13, 06:12 PM
A timelord, and Wizards is its TARDIS.

Ah, TVtropes.

The Necroswanso
2008-06-13, 06:18 PM
From what I've seen.... It's a fantasy setting game. Not some "fix" for 3.5, not some, messiah of RPGS. It's just a fantasy pen and paper game. Sheesh.... Also, any reason Dragonborn look like nightmarish fish monsters?

Worira
2008-06-13, 06:21 PM
... a series of tubes!

Xuincherguixe
2008-06-13, 06:24 PM
I've kind of always wanted to steal horses in a D&D game, but in a post I can't be bothered to link to, there was a link to an article on the top 10 least played classes, one of which was a "Horse Thief".

So, at some point in the future I am definitely going to encourage my players to steal some horses.

monty
2008-06-13, 06:26 PM
... a series of tubes!

Nope, I'm pretty sure 4e is a dump truck.

Ozymandias
2008-06-13, 06:36 PM
That's no morepig, it's a space station!

Flewellyn
2008-06-13, 06:39 PM
-The other green meat!

Abardam
2008-06-13, 06:42 PM
Maybe it's the smart-aleck in me, but this morning as I was flipping through my new PHB before work, I realized the computer game that 4e seems closest to isn't WoW, it's Guild Wars.

I'll elaborate: Classes have powers, which have recharge times. You can only have so many powers at one time, but you can swap the out for different ones, multi-classing gives you access to some feats from the other class, but not the whole thing, armor types, etc.

Given, it may be superficial, but it seems closer than the similarity to WoW.Don't forget the Death Penalty!

spamoo
2008-06-13, 06:43 PM
...More polarizing than politics.


So, at some point in the future I am definitely going to encourage my players to steal some horses.

This happens for a different reason in nearly every campaign I play... I have no clue why.

Roderick_BR
2008-06-13, 08:47 PM
You know, I'm pretty sure 4E has turned into Monopoly. Because it has these dice, you know, and you can move your character around and buy stuff! What a ripoff...
The fighter has a power that give him an attack of opportunity to any enemy he is marking that pass Go. If he hits, the enemy doesn't collect 200.

Pie Guy
2008-06-13, 08:52 PM
Run For Your Lives, 4e Has Became An Intellingent Zombie Horde!

Moff Chumley
2008-06-13, 08:54 PM
... a series of tubes!

Thread over, epic cookiness achieved. Worira, you win.

FoE
2008-06-13, 08:54 PM
This happens for a different reason in nearly every campaign I play... I have no clue why.

You're playing Dungeons and Dragons, the game that in no way endorses the cool crime of robbery! :smalltongue:

osricjm
2008-06-13, 09:06 PM
Monty Python's Flying Circus

Jimp
2008-06-13, 09:14 PM
I want, nay, need to play this.

Pun intended?

Waspinator
2008-06-14, 02:27 AM
Oh, I'll play

4e isn't WoW, its...
-Everquest
-A spatula
-The fries you got with that
-An enraged badger
-A conspiracy of Ravens
-That large crop of Asparagus
-Antagonistic electric stars that breathe murder
-Antagonistic electric stars that breathe gerbils
-A diet coke
-An accurate horse thief simulation
-An excuse to teach trees Kung Fu
-A cunning plan
-The wolf that will swallow the sun, and the wolf that will swallow the moon
-A form of Blank Media that will replace DVDs.
-What will bring world peace
-What will end world hunger
-A large squirrel with a saddle that one can ride on
-The Dragon who arranged it's own assassination

I'm sure I could go on, but I won't.

And you can get all this for just five easy payments of $19.95!

Plus your soul.

JaxGaret
2008-06-14, 05:47 AM
Pun intended?

What pun we have :smallwink:

Kurald Galain
2008-06-14, 05:59 AM
Speaking of which...

Whenever I'm playing any board game involving hexagonal tiles (such as, say, Twilight Imperium), somebody will inevitably walk by and remark that we're playing something like Settlers of Catan... hello? Basic geometry, anyone?

bosssmiley
2008-06-14, 07:22 AM
...Warhammer Quest with half the bits missing from the box :smalltongue:

(box, dice, floorplans and randomised minis sold separately)

Jimp
2008-06-14, 08:50 AM
-An accurate horse thief simulation

I want, nay, need to play this.

Emphasis mine. :smallbiggrin:

JaxGaret
2008-06-14, 08:57 AM
Emphasis mine. :smallbiggrin:

Stop nagging me about that!

Maxymiuk
2008-06-14, 09:44 AM
Stop nagging me about that!

Aye, such childishness does not behoove you.

Indon
2008-06-14, 09:50 AM
You know, I hear in Russia they compare their MMORPG's to 4'th edition D&D.

Edit: Okay, better one:

In Soviet Russia, 4E compares YOU to MMO's!

Kurald Galain
2008-06-14, 10:11 AM
You know, I hear in Russia they compare their MMORPG's to 4'th edition D&D.

In Soviet Russia, ninja posts you! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80166)

SamTheCleric
2008-06-14, 10:14 AM
4e isn't Wow, its... People! Soylent D&D is PEOPLE!!!!!

Maerok
2008-06-14, 10:17 AM
4E IS THESE HANDS NOW!
(Points for reference...)

The_Werebear
2008-06-14, 11:19 PM
4th Edition is MADNESS!

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Indon
2008-06-14, 11:32 PM
Nappa: "Vegeta, what does the scouter say about 4'th edition's power level?"

Vegeta: "Actually, it's really low. So let's just blow up the entire system real fast before Pun-Pun from 3'rd edition shows up to stop us."

Bleen
2008-06-14, 11:36 PM
....a series of tubes.

monty
2008-06-14, 11:38 PM
....a series of tubes.


... a series of tubes!

Sorry, but you got super-ninja'd.

FoE
2008-06-15, 12:19 AM
4E IS THESE HANDS NOW!
(Points for reference...)

It's a good day to do what has to be done by me and help my brother to defeat the enemys. :smalltongue:

Bleen
2008-06-15, 12:44 AM
Sorry, but you got super-ninja'd.
Fine, you know what?
It's a dump truck.

Lord Tataraus
2008-06-15, 01:11 AM
Nope, I'm pretty sure 4e is a dump truck.


Fine, you know what?
It's a dump truck.

Sorry, but that's a fail.

Bleen
2008-06-15, 01:47 AM
Sorry, but that's a fail.
You know what, FINE.

4e is Candlej

Doomsy
2008-06-15, 06:06 AM
delicious cake.

Kurald Galain
2008-06-15, 06:22 AM
delicious cake.

The cake is a lie.

Pie Guy
2008-06-15, 07:16 AM
[QUOTE=The_Werebear;4462145]4th Edition is MADNESS!
QUOTE]

4e isn't madness... 4E IS SPARTA!!!

(The spartans say "wait the wizards don't pown any more? What a gyp!")

Cheesegear
2008-06-15, 08:11 AM
-The Dragon who arranged it's own assassination.

Whatever would we do without Dunkelzahn? I <heart> The Big D.

Americans should be voting Dunkelzahn in the near future. Dragons for presidents win.

Skyserpent
2008-06-15, 09:30 AM
If these forums are any indication: It's Super Smash Bros Brawl.

Melee the previous installment was almost universally considered an improvement, however the "Hardcore" gamers had mastered characters like Fox and Falco and learned to utterly Annihilate the more casual crowd. The tournament scene was filled with extremely dedicated and twitchy fingered players who had spent a long time mastering the extreme nuance and speed that Melee required for the professional level. The gap between a new player and a pro was extremely large. Look up Youtube Videos of Ken, Bombsoldier, Zelgadis, or The Germ. Playing at a professional level meant you were playing a completely different game.

Then Brawl came out.

And the hardcore players hated it. Nintendo had force-balanced all of the characters into a much slower and more even game. Allowing slow characters to have a chance in combat and removing most of the more buggy and broken techniques, as well as applying arbitrary "balance randomness" in the form of tripping. A few new ones were discovered early on, yes, but a large percentage of the professional players decided to not take up the mantle of Brawl and instead keep playing Melee. For the casual player there is not much difference and Brawl could easily be considered more fun. But the enforced balanced felt rather unbalancing to the people who played at a professional level. There are still some balance issues and pros can still find ways to be better than the rookies, but there are a lot of people who believe that upper limit of superiority that Melee allowed just isn't possible in the new, slower-paced Brawl.

Do I have to spell out the parallels?

Tengu
2008-06-15, 09:41 AM
I'd tip my hat if I had any, Skyserpent.

Gavin Sage
2008-06-15, 10:09 AM
For the casual player there is not much difference and Brawl could easily be considered more fun.

Hightlighted statement is why analogy fails. Melee and Brawl have the same basic engine, ask a 4e Wizard if his experience is still the same as it was in 3.5. If applied to Smash Bros it would be like stripping down characters to two ablities with no difference in speed/strength, and half the character selection.

Skyserpent
2008-06-15, 10:27 AM
Hightlighted statement is why analogy fails. Melee and Brawl have the same basic engine, ask a 4e Wizard if his experience is still the same as it was in 3.5. If applied to Smash Bros it would be like stripping down characters to two ablities with no difference in speed/strength, and half the character selection.

Yet at it's core, for casual players D&D is still D&D. It's a bunch of adventurers fighting a bunch of monsters with swords and magic.

The experience changes a fair bit, but think about it like this:

in Melee, speed was king. Pretty much the most effective way to achieve victory was knocking them off the stage and keeping them off. Falco, Fox and Marth had spikes, Sheik had some really solid aerial moves, pretty much every character is forced to play in a similar fashion if you wanted to keep up in a tournament scene.

In Brawl on the other hand, characters were streamlined and a lot of characters got "nerfed" due to their being overpowered in Melee, Fox and Ganondorf got significant nerfs, and now play completely differently. Link got his entire playstyle rewritten. Overall though, a fast character like Falco, and a slow but strong character like Ike are about even. Bowser is no longer bottom tier and Dedede has some solid techs under his belt as well.

4e has done it's best to balanced all the classes and in doing so has nerfed the spellcasters and buffed the noncasters. To those of us who spent the last few years MASTERING the damn vancian buggers there's going to be some irritation, and thus, the new game may not be for you.

Both 4e and 3.5 run on the same basic principle: Roll a d20, add some modifiers, and hope you hit some other number that designates the difficulty. It's still the same game, it just plays differently now. And some people like the change, while others don't. 4e and Brawl are both more new-player friendly, whereas Melee and 3.5 were a little tougher to get really good at, but once you got there you could pull off some truly terrifying techniques.

The_Werebear
2008-06-15, 10:30 AM
Hightlighted statement is why analogy fails. Melee and Brawl have the same basic engine, ask a 4e Wizard if his experience is still the same as it was in 3.5. If applied to Smash Bros it would be like stripping down characters to two ablities with no difference in speed/strength, and half the character selection.


Not so much. In this case, it would be more like comparing Melee with everything unlocked, mastered and achieved (and probably a few characters with more abilities than normal thrown in, I am not exactly a guru when it comes to Smash Bros.) with Brawl the second you put the game in your console. You have only the basic characters, an understanding as to how the game works, and and a rough idea of how each character fights.

4e isn't nearly as cut down as you imply, it just hasn't expanded yet. It's had no time to do so. If you want a comparison on that, look at vanilla core DnD and 4e as it is at the moment. 4e is simpler and more balanced, I won't deny that. But it isn't much less versatile, if it is less at all.

monty
2008-06-15, 02:07 PM
delicious cake.

So 4e is a lie?

Pirate_King
2008-06-15, 05:37 PM
Monty Python's Flying Circus

win.

brawl comparison? only if 3.5 is the original 64 version. 3.5 is more like brawl to 3.0's melee. Melee and brawl are basically the same game, one's just more balanced and shiny.

Thurbane
2008-06-15, 09:36 PM
-double post-

Thurbane
2008-06-15, 09:37 PM
Also, any reason Dragonborn look like nightmarish fish monsters?
The one on the front of the PHB looks like a Yuan-Ti to me, but they may be because it's the same artist who did the Yuan-ti in the 3.5 MM...
http://www.iwozhere.com/SRD/images/MM35_PG263.jpg

Ellisthion
2008-06-15, 10:16 PM
Harking back to the opening post...

When I saw the thread title, I paused... and thought "OMG Guild Wars"... before I even read it.
I agree with this comparison.

LurkerInPlayground
2008-06-15, 11:54 PM
You know, I had this epiphany.

It'd be really easy to adapt a lot of specific settings now.

Mass Effect and reminds me a lot of 4th edition, as a lot of your in-game "powers" were essentially tactical powers with "cooldown times." Adept and Techie, in particular, lend themselves to a "controller" role.

Bioshock seems like it would also make for a good one-shot campaign.

Of course, I'm probably not doing 4th ed any favors by comparing it to 'dumb-downed' console games.

Skyserpent
2008-06-16, 12:23 AM
win.

brawl comparison? only if 3.5 is the original 64 version. 3.5 is more like brawl to 3.0's melee. Melee and brawl are basically the same game, one's just more balanced and shiny.

Mechanically, perhaps... But on the Pro scene, pretty much these same ridiculous discussions about "ZOMG stop oppressing my Smash Bros Melee" stuff had been popping up, The internet wasn't big around 64 era, whereas when Melee was around the tournament scene was massive and extremely well-documented with tactics and tier lists up the wazoo. Similar to our CharOp boards, Smash had techs and shine-spikes and all sorts of crazy lingo going for it... When Brawl hit, there were so many discussions and complaints and disagreements over whether the tournament scene should switch I kind of facepalmed when I realized how this kind of stuff is almost universal in gaming. The analogy isn't exactly perfect, but it's close enough to warrant a mention... Not for everyone, but hey, it's a game. Stop treating it like they just passed a bill outlawing Baked Goods and people named Jeff.

JaxGaret
2008-06-16, 02:32 AM
Stop treating it like they just passed a bill outlawing Baked Goods and people named Jeff.

No more pastries? I rage!

Who cares about Jeff though, we still have Mutt.