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Skaven
2008-06-13, 06:16 PM
Hey folks.

I'm new to 4th ed, but after looking around the MM I'm having a problem when I'm reading the entries on two monsters.

These monsters are the Purple Worm and the Spirit Devourer.

First, the purple worm. this creature has 780hp at level 16 and an ability that looks like a near autohit swallow whole, with no limitations on the amount swallowed. Creatures swallowed take impressive acid damage, and can use no powers or abilities except normal 1 handed melee attacks.

This wouldnt be a problem if there was a clause that if you dealt lets say, 40 damage you could get out, like in previous editions, but if the monster swallows a creature early in the combat, they're dead.. simply put. 4th ed has reigned in hit points of players and damage output also, at 10 damage/round dealing 1 handed attacks, you're dead before it is, even with the rest of your party beating on it from outside: getting picked off one by one by its +21 to hit reflex and also getting swallowed with no way out, only to be reduced to tiny damage attacks from within. No more getting swallowed and sneak attacking: you can only use basic 1 handed attacks.

I have looked again and again and i'm just having problems with this creature, it has no swallow limitations on number of creatures, and being a veritable ton of hit points it just seems to clearly be a creature that looks way out of line for its CR, any close CR, does anyone see what i'm missing?

Second: the spirit devourer.

this seems to also fall into the same boat, though to a slightly lesser extent. This creature is CR11, and also has a near autohit 'you're trapped and out of play, arent you having fun?' ability, that also deals 10 damage/round to you every round while also healing itself in the process, with the ever so fun 'if this kills you you're dead forever' line. It mentions a saving throw (just one? well, a better blessing than the purple worm I suppose..). I'm all for party play, but the spirit devourer looks to be an insta kill for any player fighting alone, and a horridly unbalanced threat against a team of its level, though thankfully its less of a bucketload of Hp than the worm, there looks to at least be a chance of getting a player out of this one, though with 10hp regen a round it looks like a tough break.

Anyway, these two creatures really struck out at me while I was reading the MM, can anyone clarify why I'm wrong here? from the looks on these things they seem horribly unbalanced. I especially don't like the look of the purple worm, there's just no way a level 16 party can deal nearly 800 damage before the first guy swallowed is dead from 10hp damage/round, plus 10hp damage from entry, plus the bite damage.

Draco Ignifer
2008-06-13, 06:25 PM
In re: Spirit Devourer - Saving throws are different now. You get to make a saving through at the end of every one of your rounds to defeat all ongoing effects. That means, effectively, you have a 55% chance of escaping per round - more if someone uses a power that gives you an extra chance to make a saving throw.

In Re: Purple Worm - that is pretty rough, actually. It DOES say that it has to grab you first, and you get a chance to escape. More importantly, you have to be bloodied for it to eat you which means that it has to chew on you for a while to actually swallow. But that's still extremely brutal - but, then again, it IS a solo monster.

Skaven
2008-06-13, 06:27 PM
Ah, thank you for the clarification on the saving throws, I assumed you only got the one save.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-06-13, 06:33 PM
The purple worm looks about right for a level 16 solo monster. It's supposed to have five 15th or 16th-level characters pounding away at it, expending all their impressive encounter powers and such, dealing way more than some measly 10 points (heck, their at-will attack powers deal 2[w] by now, don't they?) per attack. The limitations on Swallow (bloodied, grab first) balance it out a fair bit.

It's supposed to be lethal. Swallow and Clamping Jaws make up for the fact that the purple worm is actually a very limited solo monster - it can only attack one character at a time, while the rest are free to turn it into mince-meat.

Gralamin
2008-06-13, 06:48 PM
The purple worm looks about right for a level 16 solo monster. It's supposed to have five 15th or 16th-level characters pounding away at it, expending all their impressive encounter powers and such, dealing way more than some measly 10 points (heck, their at-will attack powers deal 2[w] by now, don't they?) per attack. The limitations on Swallow (bloodied, grab first) balance it out a fair bit.

It's supposed to be lethal. Swallow and Clamping Jaws make up for the fact that the purple worm is actually a very limited solo monster - it can only attack one character at a time, while the rest are free to turn it into mince-meat.

2[w] at level 21. Otherwise, this post is true.

Dhavaer
2008-06-13, 06:48 PM
(heck, their at-will attack powers deal 2[w] by now, don't they?)

No, Will powers jump at level 21.