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MammonAzrael
2008-06-13, 06:41 PM
The Vorpal magic weapon (pg 236, PHB) lets you reroll max damage dice and add that to your total damage with that weapon. If you roll max again you add it again and keep rolling.

The Gauntlets of Destruction (pg 247, PHB) allow you to reroll all 1s until they're something other than 1s for melee attack damage.

So all we need is a melee weapon with 1d2 damage. Does it exist?

Gralamin
2008-06-13, 06:45 PM
The Vorpal magic weapon (pg 236, PHB) lets you reroll max damage dice and add that to your total damage with that weapon. If you roll max again you add it again and keep rolling.

The Gauntlets of Destruction (pg 247, PHB) allow you to reroll all 1s until they're something other than 1s for melee attack damage.

So all we need is a melee weapon with 1d2 damage. Does it exist?

No, and there is no weapon that deals less then 1d4. The weapon size tables do not actually go below 1d4.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-13, 07:17 PM
Plus, it would have to be an axe or heavy blade. Those CAN'T be of such small dice, since that's the job of a light blade or improvised weapon.

MammonAzrael
2008-06-13, 07:20 PM
I was worried about smaller weapons (and small damage dice), probably a heavy blade made for a Tiny creature or something.

Good to know we won't have to worry about it then, thanks guys.

monty
2008-06-13, 07:40 PM
No, and there is no weapon that deals less then 1d4. The weapon size tables do not actually go below 1d4.

So a Fine dagger would still do 1d4? That's odd.

marjan
2008-06-13, 07:43 PM
So a Fine dagger would still do 1d4? That's odd.

Not as odd as small fist doing the same damage as chair.

Rockphed
2008-06-13, 07:49 PM
Not as odd as small fist doing the same damage as chair.

It is not the size of your fist, but how you use it.

Gralamin
2008-06-13, 07:56 PM
So a Fine dagger would still do 1d4? That's odd.

Fine no longer exists.

monty
2008-06-13, 07:58 PM
Not as odd as small fist doing the same damage as chair.

Well, I'd guess that a Fine dagger would be about the size of a rose thorn, maybe smaller. And it has a 1 in 4 chance of killing the average commoner? (Do they still have commoners in 4e? I don't know)

marjan
2008-06-13, 08:06 PM
It is not the size of your fist, but how you use it.

And it's not the size of chair, but how you use it... and material of which it is created. :smallamused:


Do they still have commoners in 4e? I don't know

Probably not since PCs are not supposed to fight them. :smallannoyed:

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-13, 08:07 PM
Commoners are now low level minions and skirmishers. Human Lackeys, for example.

The Necroswanso
2008-06-13, 08:34 PM
It is not the size of your fist, but how you use it.

WHOA! That's just dirty.

Andras
2008-06-13, 08:56 PM
Commoners are now low level minions and skirmishers. Human Lackeys, for example.

Minions...they're the 1HP ones, right?

So in the case of the fine-sized dagger (putting aside the fact that fine apparently no longer exists), going with that definition of the size of that as about the size of a thorn, it kills them no matter what?

Commoners are now deathly afraid of being pricked by bushes! And those trees? Durkon was right! :smalleek:

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-13, 09:12 PM
Minions...they're the 1HP ones, right?

So in the case of the fine-sized dagger (putting aside the fact that fine apparently no longer exists), going with that definition of the size of that as about the size of a thorn, it kills them no matter what?

Commoners are now deathly afraid of being pricked by bushes! And those trees? Durkon was right! :smalleek:

Yeah, but remember, you have to HIT with it. 1 HP doesn't mean a zero in defense. And if you, like me, make 20's count as 30's and 1's as -10's, g'luck killing a minion outside of some tweak with a thorn.

Kizara
2008-06-13, 09:42 PM
Yeah, but remember, you have to HIT with it. 1 HP doesn't mean a zero in defense. And if you, like me, make 20's count as 30's and 1's as -10's, g'luck killing a minion outside of some tweak with a thorn.

Here's the problem:

I assume 4e has a rule for falling off your horse while its running or something? I'm going to assume you take 1d6 points of damage.

Now, Clarissa, the Duke's daughter, is out practicing her horsemanship. She suffers a fall that might result in a broken leg or similar injury. Obviously, this is at least 1 point of damage. Clarissa is now dead. It's a good thing her straight-classed fighter father took the Raise Dead ritual!


Not blatant enough? Imagine any small child. Now, imagine them doing one of the following that I'm sure every small child does at least once:

-Fall down the stairs.
-Trip and scrape your knees and hands.
-get into a physical fight with another child until someone gets hurt enough to cry.
-gets hit by a hard ball, rock, toy or other object thrown due to roughhousing. Enough that it would cause swelling and a bruise.
-get a signifigant burn from a fire or something hot like a kettle.
-etc

Now, in all the above senarios you are losing at least 1HP, and thus are dying.
Conclusion: children don't generally live long enough to grow up, and people don't exist.


Now, lets not forget that 'HP' now means something more like 'coolness morale' then your physical robustness, so in actuallity if we follow that logic the following things should also result in instant death:

-becoming badly startled or frightened
-becoming depressed and heartbroken over a lost mate
-getting food posioning
-being exposed to a sound loud enough to cause one's ears to ring
-becoming extremely disheartened over a notable failure, like failing to pass a coming-of-age test of competance.
-going without food for a day and thus having serious hunger pains

Ned the undead
2008-06-13, 09:49 PM
And it's not the size of chair, but how you use it... and material of which it is created. :smallamused:



+2 shocking frost adamantium chair.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-13, 09:51 PM
Here's the problem:

I assume 4e has a rule for falling off your horse while its running or something? I'm going to assume you take 1d6 points of damage.

Now, Clarissa, the Duke's daughter, is out practicing her horsemanship. She suffers a fall that might result in a broken leg or similar injury. Obviously, this is at least 1 point of damage. Clarissa is now dead. It's a good thing her straight-classed fighter father took the Raise Dead ritual!


Not blatant enough? Imagine any small child. Now, imagine them doing one of the following that I'm sure every small child does at least once:

-Fall down the stairs.
-Trip and scrape your knees and hands.
-get into a physical fight with another child until someone gets hurt enough to cry.
-gets hit by a hard ball, rock, toy or other object thrown due to roughhousing. Enough that it would cause swelling and a bruise.
-get a signifigant burn from a fire or something hot like a kettle.
-etc

Now, in all the above senarios you are losing at least 1HP, and thus are dying.
Conclusion: children don't generally live long enough to grow up, and people don't exist.


Now, lets not forget that 'HP' now means something more like 'coolness morale' then your physical robustness, so in actuallity if we follow that logic the following things should also result in instant death:

-becoming badly startled or frightened
-becoming depressed and heartbroken over a lost mate
-getting food posioning
-being exposed to a sound loud enough to cause one's ears to ring
-becoming extremely disheartened over a notable failure, like failing to pass a coming-of-age test of competance.
-going without food for a day and thus having serious hunger pains

You don't seem to take Falling damage from falling off a horse, so no (Though quite a few people have died that way. Is that a surprise?). And falling down the stairs would be nonlethal damage. Minions don't die from that.

Shades of Gray
2008-06-13, 09:55 PM
Here's the problem:

I assume 4e has a rule for falling off your horse while its running or something? I'm going to assume you take 1d6 points of damage.

Now, Clarissa, the Duke's daughter, is out practicing her horsemanship. She suffers a fall that might result in a broken leg or similar injury. Obviously, this is at least 1 point of damage. Clarissa is now dead. It's a good thing her straight-classed fighter father took the Raise Dead ritual!


Not blatant enough? Imagine any small child. Now, imagine them doing one of the following that I'm sure every small child does at least once:

-Fall down the stairs.
-Trip and scrape your knees and hands.
-get into a physical fight with another child until someone gets hurt enough to cry.
-gets hit by a hard ball, rock, toy or other object thrown due to roughhousing. Enough that it would cause swelling and a bruise.
-get a signifigant burn from a fire or something hot like a kettle.
-etc

Now, in all the above senarios you are losing at least 1HP, and thus are dying.
Conclusion: children don't generally live long enough to grow up, and people don't exist.


Now, lets not forget that 'HP' now means something more like 'coolness morale' then your physical robustness, so in actuallity if we follow that logic the following things should also result in instant death:

-becoming badly startled or frightened
-becoming depressed and heartbroken over a lost mate
-getting food posioning
-being exposed to a sound loud enough to cause one's ears to ring
-becoming extremely disheartened over a notable failure, like failing to pass a coming-of-age test of competance.
-going without food for a day and thus having serious hunger pains

Minions only count as minions in relation to the PCs. For example, when the guard is fighting the rioting peasants, neither are minions. When the PCs show up to stop the riot (or continue it) the guards and rioters become minions.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-06-13, 09:56 PM
Quick! Someone figure out what a housecat's stats are, so that we can see if they can still kill peasants! This is a question of dire importance :smallbiggrin:

Kizara
2008-06-13, 10:29 PM
You don't seem to take Falling damage from falling off a horse, so no (Though quite a few people have died that way. Is that a surprise?).

Since, apparently, it causes no actual harm, I would be very shocked indeed that people have died from it.

ghost_warlock
2008-06-13, 10:37 PM
Now, lets not forget that 'HP' now means something more like 'coolness morale' then your physical robustness, so in actuallity if we follow that logic the following things should also result in instant death:

-becoming badly startled or frightened
-becoming depressed and heartbroken over a lost mate
-getting food posioning
-being exposed to a sound loud enough to cause one's ears to ring
-becoming extremely disheartened over a notable failure, like failing to pass a coming-of-age test of competance.
-going without food for a day and thus having serious hunger pains

As much as I prefer 3e to 4e, this isn't one of the problems with 4e. From my understanding of the rules, the 'coolness morale' bit about hp simply means that the minion with 0 hp is no longer considered a combatant - essentially having surrendered or ran from the battle.

The items on this list fall into the "I'm too scared/depressed/sick/hungry/etc. to fight today" category.


Since, apparently, it causes no actual harm, I would be very shocked indeed that people have died from it.

4e is for low-magic cinematic games, it doesn't even try for realism.

Artanis
2008-06-13, 10:37 PM
Here's the problem:

I assume 4e has a rule for falling off your horse while its running or something? I'm going to assume you take 1d6 points of damage.

Now, Clarissa, the Duke's daughter, is out practicing her horsemanship. She suffers a fall that might result in a broken leg or similar injury. Obviously, this is at least 1 point of damage. Clarissa is now dead. It's a good thing her straight-classed fighter father took the Raise Dead ritual!


Not blatant enough? Imagine any small child. Now, imagine them doing one of the following that I'm sure every small child does at least once:

-Fall down the stairs.
-Trip and scrape your knees and hands.
-get into a physical fight with another child until someone gets hurt enough to cry.
-gets hit by a hard ball, rock, toy or other object thrown due to roughhousing. Enough that it would cause swelling and a bruise.
-get a signifigant burn from a fire or something hot like a kettle.
-etc

Now, in all the above senarios you are losing at least 1HP, and thus are dying.
Conclusion: children don't generally live long enough to grow up, and people don't exist.


Now, lets not forget that 'HP' now means something more like 'coolness morale' then your physical robustness, so in actuallity if we follow that logic the following things should also result in instant death:

-becoming badly startled or frightened
-becoming depressed and heartbroken over a lost mate
-getting food posioning
-being exposed to a sound loud enough to cause one's ears to ring
-becoming extremely disheartened over a notable failure, like failing to pass a coming-of-age test of competance.
-going without food for a day and thus having serious hunger pains
Wait, you're complaining about an inherently unrealistic system being...unrealistic? Isn't that like going on a rant bitching about how water is wet?

Oracle_Hunter
2008-06-13, 10:57 PM
Wait, you're complaining about an inherently unrealistic system being...unrealistic? Isn't that like going on a rant bitching about how water is wet?

Stupid water... being wet all the time! :smallannoyed:

That said, perhaps it's time to reinforce that point - 4e is not a "simulationist" game. I would argue that all previous editions of D&D were not "simulationist" games either (HP, THAC0, the save system!) but were rather abstracted combat games wrapped in a "simulationist" veneer.

D&D came from a minatures wargame, for goodness sake!

What this means is that if an NPC falling off a horse and dying from a broken neck is important for your game, you just say "that's how it goes." If it is not, then the minions don't die and the important NPCs don't take meaningful damage.

Same thing with crafts - if it's important for you to know how well a PC is forging a sword, then make up some test for it that suits your story purposes, or just say "oh yeah, that's a good sword." Does this mean D&D is more "cinematic" now? I'd say no; rather D&D has less confusing "simulationist" elements that slowed down the core of the game (killing dragons and looting dungeons! :smalltongue:) and sometimes lead to absurd results (see OP).

Waspinator
2008-06-13, 10:58 PM
Minions only count as minions in relation to the PCs. For example, when the guard is fighting the rioting peasants, neither are minions. When the PCs show up to stop the riot (or continue it) the guards and rioters become minions.
And that's why I don't like 4th edition. It seems to focus more on what makes the math easier, not trying to present an internally-consistent and constant gameworld. I think I'd honestly be happier if they instead tried to accomplish the same end result by making minions take extra damage. Say that they haven't been trained well in the art of defense against weaponry and have them take double or triple damage or something from all armed attacks because of them not being able to move to minimize blows.

In 3.5, however, you run the bad guys under the same rules as the players. You can of course cut corners to reduce the paperwork, but the default assumption seems to be that they fundamentally work the same. By making them work so differently, 4.0 gains a kind of video-game-y feel. You know, where the enemies work differently just because they are enemies and you're not.

Andras
2008-06-13, 11:36 PM
Yeah, but remember, you have to HIT with it. 1 HP doesn't mean a zero in defense. And if you, like me, make 20's count as 30's and 1's as -10's, g'luck killing a minion outside of some tweak with a thorn.

So whatever class we want to consider uses a horribly outsized, tiny weapon to do it -- or hell, improvised weapon (thorn bush) or (needle). Add nonproficiency/improvisation modifiers as necessary. It certainly doesn't make it any less silly.

Also, for lower-level minions, just set a housecat among them. 3.5 commoners at least had half a chance in that regard against the purring menace...

ZipZipskins
2008-06-14, 12:47 AM
And that's why I don't like 4th edition. It seems to focus more on what makes the math easier, not trying to present an internally-consistent and constant gameworld. I think I'd honestly be happier if they instead tried to accomplish the same end result by making minions take extra damage. Say that they haven't been trained well in the art of defense against weaponry and have them take double or triple damage or something from all armed attacks because of them not being able to move to minimize blows.

In 3.5, however, you run the bad guys under the same rules as the players. You can of course cut corners to reduce the paperwork, but the default assumption seems to be that they fundamentally work the same. By making them work so differently, 4.0 gains a kind of video-game-y feel. You know, where the enemies work differently just because they are enemies and you're not.

Interestingly, I think the bad guys DO work under the same rules as players in 4.0. They are given specific, clear tactical roles, have powers that allow them to work together, have special powers that are unique to them, make the same sorts of attacks, have similar hit-point totals (aside from minions, which I'll address in a second) and in general behave like monster-y PCs.

Minions are the exception here, and let me say, I thank God for the addition of minions. You can say it's unrealistic all you like, but what it does is allow me to create interesting, satisfying encounters with hordes of monsters much, much more easily, and that makes me very happy indeed. Whether or not they make "roleplaying sense" (and they do, given the description of how to treat them in the books {sub-note here... if HP is an abstraction to begin with, why is everyone up in arms about how it's applied in this instance?}), it makes my job as a DM much easier, and the gameplay for my players much more fun, and isn't that really what matters? Really?

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-06-14, 02:01 AM
have similar hit-point totals

So I take it you haven't looked past level 10?

Skyserpent
2008-06-14, 02:08 AM
I don't see what's so odd about all this... I mean in 3.5 your average commoner had TWO hit points... How is that significantly better?

Kizara
2008-06-14, 02:20 AM
I don't see what's so odd about all this... I mean in 3.5 your average commoner had TWO hit points... How is that significantly better?

Well, because even if you suffer a bad fall (say, the horseback example above) and take 6 points of damage, but you are only a level 1 aristocrat (5 HP), you don't die, you fall unconsious and are hurt enough to need medical attention.

2 HP commoner same idea, just is a bit more seriously hurt.


Furthermore, the inherant problem is that there needs to be a way to be injured but not dead, and varying degrees of such.

Imagine if the combat system worked like this:

If you are hit, you die, instantly.
Likewise, anything you hit dies instantly.
Even most really 'gritty' games aren't that harsh, allowing you to take injury from a direct hit, and only having the possibility of death.
And we both know DnD isn't gritty.


Of course, it doesn't, only the minion rules do. That's why they are terrible.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-06-14, 02:40 AM
Well, because even if you suffer a bad fall (say, the horseback example above) and take 6 points of damage, but you are only a level 1 aristocrat (5 HP), you don't die, you fall unconsious and are hurt enough to need medical attention.

2 HP commoner same idea, just is a bit more seriously hurt.


Furthermore, the inherant problem is that there needs to be a way to be injured but not dead, and varying degrees of such.

1) Aristocrats in 4e won't be minions.... unless you need a whole bunch of courtiers for some reason?

2) Any "lethal blow" to NPCs can be either lethal or non-lethal at the will of the PC, and presumably the DM for environmental hazards.

How's that for you?

Kizara
2008-06-14, 02:50 AM
1) Aristocrats in 4e won't be minions.... unless you need a whole bunch of courtiers for some reason?

2) Any "lethal blow" to NPCs can be either lethal or non-lethal at the will of the PC, and presumably the DM for environmental hazards.

How's that for you?

1) Ok. My point still stands that farmer joe (2 HP commoner) can suffer an injury without dieing. And that's without considering 'higher level' minions.

2) Complete garbage, but thanks for trying. Something has lethal potential or it doesn't.

Perhaps a warrior could decide to use a non-lethal attack (flat of blade), sure, but aren't they just completely immune to subdual damage, thus his attack would do nothing (another major problem)? As for deciding that the 8 damage attack magically doesn't kill the minion, but only wounds him, because we feel like it, is so offensive to me I cannot find coherent words to explain it. Consistancy comes to mind though.

Fire/horse falling/fast-moving rivers/bandits are X hazardous, and your ability to survive them is based soley on... you guessed it... your survival ability. If your survival ability is essentially 0 (1 HP and no ability to recover from a injury), they are thus lethal to you. If I decide otherwise, I would be discounting and rejecting the minion rule system (not that I don't reject it, because I vhemenantely do), which is what I'm complaining about.

You can't say there isn't a problem with something because as a solution you can remove or ignore it. There's still the problem, you've now just decided its not wroth your energy to solve it.

Bryn
2008-06-14, 05:32 AM
The minion rules are just a tool for representing large battles, in which you want certain enemies to go down easily. They do not mean that in the game world, a character is completely vulnerable to every tiny scratch - that would be absurd, as you have pointed out. The minion rules only ever apply in a fight, where their purpose is to make things easier on the DM by saying 'these people go down after one solid hit'.

You would not roll to see if a minion falls off its horse, or roll damage as a result. Such things only get in the way of having a fun game.

Kizara
2008-06-14, 05:47 AM
The minion rules are just a tool for representing large battles, in which you want certain enemies to go down easily. They do not mean that in the game world, a character is completely vulnerable to every tiny scratch - that would be absurd, as you have pointed out. The minion rules only ever apply in a fight, where their purpose is to make things easier on the DM by saying 'these people go down after one solid hit'.

You would not roll to see if a minion falls off its horse, or roll damage as a result. Such things only get in the way of having a fun game.

Thanks for making my point for me.

"Such things only get in the way of having a fun game."

That line in particular, if you read into it just a bit, sums up the problem.

Bryn
2008-06-14, 06:00 AM
In hindsight, I feel that this post was too aggressive, not to mention hypocritical, but I'll preserve it for posterity. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4459366&postcount=38).
:smallannoyed: Such things only get in the way of having a fun game, so you don't do them. Not "Such things only get in the way of having a fun game, so 4E IS BAD!".

Please don't misrepresent my argument.
To put it somewhat differently, if applying a rule in a place where it's not meant to be applied would result in silly situations, you don't apply the rule there. The minion rules are a tool to represent combat, nothing more.

MorkaisChosen
2008-06-14, 06:33 AM
The thing about Minions is that they're minions. When the fight starts going badly for Dark Lord Bob, and his minions are sent into the fray, they may not be totally motivated. Once they get hit by the scary bloke in the big armour, they might not be dead, but if I was them I'd decide to give up and either run away or play dead. No HP left on a minion doesn't mean dead, it means no longer fighting.

Dervag
2008-06-14, 06:54 AM
Thanks for making my point for me.

"Such things only get in the way of having a fun game."

That line in particular, if you read into it just a bit, sums up the problem.Yes.

The problem begins when we consider the commonplace observation that "form follows function." Clearly, the function of a game is to be amusing, so it should take an amusing form.

Some people, even people who are very good at creating or using complicated and realistic rules, find a game more amusing when it contains minions.

Other people do not like a game that contains minions, and wish the game to have no significant minions to be found anywhere (housecat minions are presumably OK). They find minions to be less amusing because minions create fridge logic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic).

On the other hand, please remember that HP is a really high level abstraction. The question of how the heck a high level fighter could take twenty arrows to the torso and still be alive, let alone moving and fighting efficiently, is far more serious than the question of how minions could be so easy to kill. Making matters worse is the question of how, if a fighter can survive twenty arrows to the torso, he can be killed by one arrow in the form of a coup de grace.

The only way there has ever been to parse the HP rules is to reason that they're situational- that a weapon which can never do more than 4 points of damage in normal use is somehow capable of one-shotting a man with 120 hit points if they happen to be helpless.

Nemoricus
2008-06-14, 07:11 AM
I don't know. An arrow fired point-blank range into your neck, while you can't do anything about it, has to be much more serious than when you're on your feet and trying to avoid it.

I believe that it's mentioned somewhere that in non-standard situations, like say, slitting your throat with your own dagger, you get the obvious result. HP doesn't matter then.

Bryn
2008-06-14, 07:23 AM
In hindsight, my last post was far too aggressive, and commited precisely the same thing I was asking Kizara not to do. Dervag is right. I'm extremely sorry for writing in anger, and while I still feel that minions are a reasonable game mechanic, I don't begrudge anyone who dislikes them. All in all, I should have remembered the MST3K Mantra (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra) - indeed, I intend never to argue over the worth of 4e again :smallsmile:

Mjoellnir
2008-06-14, 07:23 AM
The minion concept was already used in Star Wars Saga Edition, only worse, because the enemies had too much HP to be killed with a normal hit. But let's see where the concept comes from.

Take any western, most of them have villains with goons who sit on house roofs and die from a single shot. (Well, most villains do that too when their time has come, but it's hard to make a wildwest RPG)
Stormtroopers, the Elite of the galactic empire with their shiny white armor get mowed down like grass with a scythe.
In Hero two assassins battle their way through an army, to a palace, and they seem to take out multiple soldiers with each strike.

D&D isn't a simulation of a consistent world, for that I would play The Dark Eye, where even player characters can start out as mechanicus, peasant, carpenter, etc., and where everybody gets in combat exactly two actions, one attack, one defensive (can be converted to each other with the right feats, and you can get an additional action with two-weapon-fighting) where you have real problems against two attacking foes.
D&D ist about cinematic fantasy-combat. And for that the concept of minions is great.

JaxGaret
2008-06-14, 08:53 AM
Wow, massive thread derailment here.

As to the Minion mechanic: yes, it breaks verisimilitude by RAW (which is that Minions are destroyed upon taking any damage). If you don't like it, either RAYW on it or simply don't use Minions - replace each cadre of Minions with monsters worth an approximately equivalent amount of XP.

I happen to like the Minion mechanic for combat purposes. It's like a lot of 4e - it sounds bad and it reads bad, but IG it actually works pretty well, if you use it properly. It's like any tool - use it improperly, and you get poor results.

LurkerInPlayground
2008-06-14, 09:41 AM
Here's the problem:

I assume 4e has a rule for falling off your horse while its running or something? I'm going to assume you take 1d6 points of damage.

Now, Clarissa, the Duke's daughter, is out practicing her horsemanship. She suffers a fall that might result in a broken leg or similar injury. Obviously, this is at least 1 point of damage. Clarissa is now dead. It's a good thing her straight-classed fighter father took the Raise Dead ritual!


Not blatant enough? Imagine any small child. Now, imagine them doing one of the following that I'm sure every small child does at least once:

-Fall down the stairs.
-Trip and scrape your knees and hands.
-get into a physical fight with another child until someone gets hurt enough to cry.
-gets hit by a hard ball, rock, toy or other object thrown due to roughhousing. Enough that it would cause swelling and a bruise.
-get a signifigant burn from a fire or something hot like a kettle.
-etc

Now, in all the above senarios you are losing at least 1HP, and thus are dying.
Conclusion: children don't generally live long enough to grow up, and people don't exist.


Now, lets not forget that 'HP' now means something more like 'coolness morale' then your physical robustness, so in actuallity if we follow that logic the following things should also result in instant death:

-becoming badly startled or frightened
-becoming depressed and heartbroken over a lost mate
-getting food posioning
-being exposed to a sound loud enough to cause one's ears to ring
-becoming extremely disheartened over a notable failure, like failing to pass a coming-of-age test of competance.
-going without food for a day and thus having serious hunger pains
I'm not sure if you're being serious or not but most of the examples you have listed would simply fall under "0" damage. Or would categorize as a lack of design or intent to penetrate AC. Most the things you have listed don't even quality as "attacks."

Or putting it more non-nerdish terms, a thrown ball doesn't penetrate deeply enough or with enough force to do any real damage other than to leave a minor bruise.

Even a significant "burn" from a kettle of a fire is little more than a singing. This isn't a force directed by a wizard with the intent to immolate a person. Or a burning building.

As mentioned before, falling off the horse is a non minion-thing with respect to the Duke's daughter. A giant dragon which kidnapped the daughter however would be regard her as a minion.

You're also being silly with the morale stuff for similar reasons. Being startled, heartbroken or failing a test doesn't really fit under my definition of "combat morale." None of those things puts a person in immediate fear of their physical well-being. Let's assume the NPC is smart enough to distinguish the sound of breaking dishes from an orcish battle cry.

If however, a giant casually punts you about thirty feet, you might not be in such a hurry to stick around.

Rules don't override common sense.