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GimliFett
2008-06-14, 11:10 AM
Couldn't figure out how to title this:
Basically, I got smacked upside the head earlier when making a 10+ level character with a Prestige Class that offers it's own Spellcasting Progression, a la Assassin, Blackguard, Pious Templar and Knight of the Chalice. Several spells on those lists are save-based, and it seems to me that having spells that top out at 4th level really limits their save DCs, especially for those higher level opponents. Knight of the Chalice offers Consecrated Casting which applies bonuses to DCs and Spell Penetration versus their chosen opponents, which helps somewhat to alleviate the issue. Is there a feat out there that would do similar things, aside from the Spell Focus/Penetrations?

I'm considering instituting a House Rule of sorts to bump the DCs of these sorts of spells so that they're actually useful for these supposedly accomplished characters. Maybe something along the lines of 1/2 or 1/3 Class Levels as a bonus?
Questions? Comments? Snide remarks?

marjan
2008-06-14, 11:18 AM
Problem I see is that those classes are supposed to be like paladins and rangers regarding their spellcasting, so if you are to bump their DCs, you should also bump DCs of base partial spellcasting classes.

GimliFett
2008-06-14, 11:24 AM
True. I probably would. But I wouldn't have it kick until they hit 10th level+.

marjan
2008-06-14, 11:44 AM
True. I probably would. But I wouldn't have it kick until they hit 10th level+.

I don't think it would be a problem having it start from level1 even. Base classes need to be lvl4 to cast their 1st level spells and even then they get 0 spell slots + bonus from ability modifier. PrCs will get these at lvl6 earliest.

Instead of adding certain percentage of their level the easier way of doing it might be to use formula 10 + 2*spell level + ability modifier. This might seem like too much, but the max DC for their spells would 18 + ability modifier (which will be pretty low usually) and they will have very limited number of spell slots, so I don't think it will be a problem.

Also make sure to exclude classes like Nar Demonbinder and Ur Priest from this rule, otherwise you will have serious balance issues with them.

GimliFett
2008-06-14, 11:51 AM
Good point. I'm a little leery of using a formula for DCs, but it'd make the best sense.
Thanks for the input.

The Demonbinder and Ur Priest have what feature that creates the problem? I'm vaguely aware of something, at the edge of my thoughts, but can't place it.

marjan
2008-06-14, 12:02 PM
The Demonbinder and Ur Priest have what feature that creates the problem? I'm vaguely aware of something, at the edge of my thoughts, but can't place it.

They have spellcasting on their own. Demonbinder's spellcasting starts from lvl5 spells and goes to lvl8 or 9 (not sure exactly) and Ur Priest has full spellcasting tacked in 10 levels. So it would cause problems with ridiculously high DCs. There are few more PrCs like this, so just be sure to do this on individual basis.

GimliFett
2008-06-14, 12:09 PM
Oh, yeah. I'd say something along the lines of expanded spellcasting?
Anyway, my RL players wouldn't abuse things like that, but it'd definitely be a case-by-case thing.

loopy
2008-06-14, 12:11 PM
It is true that Assassin spell save DC's are horrible, but the majority of their spells are ones that are cast on themselves.

It is a shame that you can't do more direct 'poison' spells due to crappy DC's though. Ah well, I'm fine with Glibness, Dimension Door, and Swift Action invisibilty.