So...4ed Tarrasque

[thereaper]

I've always believed that the Tarrasque is meant to represent the ultimate monster of D&D. Unfortunately, in 3.5ed the Tarrasque had a number of exploitable weaknesses preventing it from fulfilling this purpose. Now, however, several of those weaknesses appear to have been shored up (it's now immune to charm/fear effects, you can't fly over it, and I don't even think there is ability drain any more). To top it all off, the thing is now completely immortal, making it essentially the most dangerous monster for no other reason that the fact that you simply can never truly kill it. It's like Jason Voorhees; you might be able to put it back to sleep, but you will never be able to actually kill it.

The only real weaknesses I can see in it at the moment is that it doesn't have immunity to effects such as Petrification, Immobilization, or Blindness (but don't those give you a save each turn?).

Anyone else have thoughts on the new incarnation of the incarnation of destruction?

[Goober4473]

Honestly, the thing is pretty boring. It's cool, but it just sort of attacks stuff and has tons of health. Not much in the way of interesting tactics considering it's basically a boss fight.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Meh, it can be killed. Just need to open a portal to the Far Realm and put some really tasty bait, then follow it inside and kill it.

Seriously. If it leaves this world, it can die, so the Far Realm is fair game.

[Jerthanis]

I noticed it's not immune to Oxygen destroying effects... Though it's safe to say that it's possible another one would wake up if we continue these nuclear weapons tests.

...All kidding aside, Yeah, unfortunately the Tarrasque doesn't really have particularly interesting round-to-round abilities, and is easier to "lock down" than other iterations of the same monster, or even other high level solo monsters. It does seem like more than anything it's a trial of endurance, and little else.

I never used the Tarrasque in any other form of D&D, because it seemed designed to frustrate the efforts of the party, and be too long and drawn out. Now I'm not any more excited to run it, even if I like the flavor more now.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Meh, it can be killed. Just need to open a portal to the Far Realm and put some really tasty bait, then follow it inside and kill it.

Seriously. If it leaves this world, it can die, so the Far Realm is fair game.

Well, what it says that it can die if "coaxed" or "tricked" into leaving the world.

So, you'd need to open a portal to the Far Realms and put a sign next to it that said "Free Cake".

[Azerian Kelimon]

Incredible. We found the "official" way of killing the big T permanently in only eight days. Faster than people discovering how to kill it with a Batman Wizard, certainly.

[Collin152]

Well, what it says that it can die if "coaxed" or "tricked" into leaving the world.

So, you'd need to open a portal to the Far Realms and put a sign next to it that said "Free Cake".

Why not just make it say it's name backwards?
It's about as hard.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Why not just make it say it's name backwards?
It's about as hard.

Hmm...Euqsarrat. Tasty...

[Collin152]

Hmm...Euqsarrat. Tasty...

Nah, reverse sounds, not letters.
Tah-Rah-Skew
You-kiss-Are-Aht

[Tren]

Nah, reverse sounds, not letters.
Tah-Rah-Skew
You-kiss-Are-Aht

Except being a French word it's pronounced Tah-Rask like masque or casque :smalltongue:

[Collin152]

Except being a French word it's pronounced Tah-Rask like masque or casque :smalltongue:

What I am about to say will offend all my ancestors from Normandy and Brittany, but the French give us nothing useful, so we may as well ignore their influence.

[RoboticSheeple]

Well, what it says that it can die if "coaxed" or "tricked" into leaving the world.

So, you'd need to open a portal to the Far Realms and put a sign next to it that said "Free Cake".

Because even the Tarrasque knows that any time cake and portals are involved the cake is a lie.

[Feralgeist]

Well, what it says that it can die if "coaxed" or "tricked" into leaving the world.

So, you'd need to open a portal to the Far Realms and put a sign next to it that said "Free Cake".

THE CAKE IS A LIE! RUN FOR IT TARRASQUE!

Edit: Sweet jesus! Ninja'ed by mere seconds!

[Hzurr]

What I am about to say will offend all my ancestors from Normandy and Brittany, but the French give us nothing useful, so we may as well ignore their influence.

What about really really thin pancakes? :smallwink:

[Collin152]

What about really really thin pancakes? :smallwink:

The crepe is a lie.

[Draz74]

What about really really thin pancakes? :smallwink:

Russia has them too. Just as traditional as French crepes. And with a much cooler name ... блины. And what's more, they use it as a mild expletive. What's awesomer than stubbing your toe in the morning and yelling, "Ow! Pancake!"?

Plus, they write with a phonetic alphabet, so if we took the Tarrasque from them, we wouldn't have arguments about how to pronounce it.

Plus, Liches come from Russian mythology originally.

[Collin152]

Plus, Liches come from Russian mythology originally.

Arabic mythology; Djinn.
I believe it predates that significantly.

[UserClone]

Um, in what way does a djinn remotely resemble a lich?:smallconfused: I don't understand your point there.

[Collin152]

Um, in what way does a djinn remotely resemble a lich?:smallconfused:I dpnt understand your point there.

The Djinn put their life in objects outside their bodies.

[Roderick_BR]

Wow, the Tarrasque now is level 30.

Hmm... If I were to use him, maybe have him walking through a path towards the main kingdon or something. The players need to run in front to help evacuate, while dealing massive damage, trying to stop it. Like that game where you need to destroy buildings to keep a truck loaded with nuckes to hit and destroy the whole place.


Incredible. We found the "official" way of killing the big T permanently in only eight days. Faster than people discovering how to kill it with a Batman Wizard, certainly.
Yeah, we "found", as if it didn't say right there that removing him from his homeplace it *could* be possible to kill him. (just kidding)
I imagine a group of players managing to stuff a gargantuan creature into a portal... then they go after it, and finds dozens of others groups, all leading their own Tarrasques from several others primary material plane worlds.

[zaei]

What I am about to say will offend all my ancestors from Normandy and Brittany, but the French give us nothing useful, so we may as well ignore their influence.

If Invisible Christopher Walken says "Tah-rask", it's "Tah-rask".

[Dervag]

The Djinn put their life in objects outside their bodies.I don't think that's close enough to count.

A lich is a mortal that deliberately creates an object to store its life in. Do djinn do that?

[Collin152]

I don't think that's close enough to count.

A lich is a mortal that deliberately creates an object to store its life in. Do djinn do that?

Define mortal.
i mean, if they have to hide their life in the first place...

[chiasaur11]

Wow, the Tarrasque now is level 30.

Hmm... If I were to use him, maybe have him walking through a path towards the main kingdon or something. The players need to run in front to help evacuate, while dealing massive damage, trying to stop it. Like that game where you need to destroy buildings to keep a truck loaded with nuckes to hit and destroy the whole place.




Blast Corps.

Also, removing the wish thing and most of the easy kills is nice. Needing new strategies help keep things fun.

[purepolarpanzer]

I think the Tarrasque is now simply an engine of destruction, not an obese beast out for snacks, so cake doesn't work so much.

And now YOU as the DM have to make the Tarrasque interesting. I've always thought it's fun to watch the PC's cry as it rampages through their capital city, ignoring their attacks in favor of ripping up their beloved home. It's the environment and the curcumstances that make this one awesome now.

[thereaper]

Meh, it can be killed. Just need to open a portal to the Far Realm and put some really tasty bait, then follow it inside and kill it.

Seriously. If it leaves this world, it can die, so the Far Realm is fair game.

That's according to the lore. Also, that's just what ancient texts postulate. If it was really possible, don't you think somebody would have done it (like, y'know, the Gods)? The lore on it's own means nothing as far as the actual battles are concerned. It's flavor. There is no such mechanic in the actual mechanics portion of the creature entry, so use of it technically qualifies as rule 0.

Then again, darkvision the way it's used in OOTS (and many groups) is rule 0 as well. Heck, I'd probably make the Tarrasque killable in this fashion if I DMed.


...All kidding aside, Yeah, unfortunately the Tarrasque doesn't really have particularly interesting round-to-round abilities, and is easier to "lock down" than other iterations of the same monster, or even other high level solo monsters. It does seem like more than anything it's a trial of endurance, and little else.

This is a pretty good point, however. Of course, as long as it gets to be the super big baddie that threatens everything on Earth, I'm happy with it. :smallwink:

[FoE]

If it was really possible, don't you think somebody would have done it (like, y'know, the Gods)?

Isn't the Tarrasque the forgotten superweapon of the gods left over from their battles with the elementals?

[Jack Mann]

That's according to the lore. Also, that's just what ancient texts postulate. If it was really possible, don't you think somebody would have done it (like, y'know, the Gods)?

There are any number of good reasons. And honestly, if you can't think of them, you're going to have trouble DMing. It leads to the question of why someone (like, as you say, the Gods) hasn't dealt with whatever big bad nasty you're throwing at your players at high levels. Any ancient, powerful threat could presumably be dealt with by Gods or other powerful mortals. You need to figure out why they haven't.

However, there is a problem with the logic here. The Tarrasque is still alive. So, how does anyone know how to kill it?

[marjan]

However, there is a problem with the logic here. The Tarrasque is still alive. So, how does anyone know how to kill it?

Experimenting? It would explain why Tarrasques are near extinction. :smalltongue:

[Thinker]

I noticed it's not immune to Oxygen destroying effects... Though it's safe to say that it's possible another one would wake up if we continue these nuclear weapons tests.

History shows again and again how nature points up the folly of men

[monty]

History shows again and again how nature points up the folly of men

TARRASQUE!

...er, Godzilla!

[Collin152]

However, there is a problem with the logic here. The Tarrasque is still alive. So, how does anyone know how to kill it?

Ain't'cha never heard of divinations? Augurys? Arcane inquisitions of the future?

Oracles, Prophets, Seers, really old blind men, they all know how to do it. Does anybody listen to what they say? Nope.

[Chronos]

Quoth Draz74:
Russia has them too. Just as traditional as French crepes. And with a much cooler name ... блины. And what's more, they use it as a mild expletive. What's awesomer than stubbing your toe in the morning and yelling, "Ow! Pancake!"?Aside: Really? I've got a few Russian friends, and have even been to a couple of pancake parties with them, and I've never heard any of them use or mention "blin" (I assume that's the same word you have there in the Cyrillic letters) as an expletive.

Oh, and the Russian blin I've had were thicker than French crepes, but still thinner than American pancakes.


Back somewhat on topic, does any variant of the "grandmother method" still work for defeating the Tarrasque? The 3rd edition Hero's Feast spell creates enough food for "one creature per level", without specifying how big the creatures are. So logically, you should be able to create more than enough food for the Tarrasque. Feed it well for a few days before it goes back to bed, and you've removed it as a threat.

[Khanderas]

Honestly, the thing is pretty boring. It's cool, but it just sort of attacks stuff and has tons of health. Not much in the way of interesting tactics considering it's basically a boss fight.
I disagree. It is not a boss fight, because bosses are supposed to be something you overcome. Mt T is something to avoid because if he sees you he will eat you. He is the vengeful tool of a vengeful god. He is the reminder that there are always something bigger then you.

That doesn't have to mean that Mr T = automatic loss. A win could very well be evacuating a town, tricking him off course to a less damaging path (as into the wilderness, away from civilisation).

Naturally people disagree with me on this, they say it is a monster like everyone else and a challenge to overcome. Somehow some of them draw the conclusion that if it cannot be killed the game is pointless. I don't know how really.:smallsigh:

I for one cheer at the notion you can't just fly above him and toss orbs of X at him or powerattack for infinity on him anymore. I especially like the "will always come back", something I interpreted myself before this since he is the vengeful tool of a vengeful god as a punishment on the world.

[thereaper]

Here, here! I agree completely. The Tarrasque isn't meant to be a creature that can be destroyed; it's meant to be more like a natural disaster in monster format; the kind of thing that you can't just destroy; only minimize it's damage (by putting it back to sleep).

I mean, sure, you could hypothetically get a whole bunch of Basilisks to fight it and wait for one of them to roll a natural 20 on it's petrifying gaze (while hoping the Tarrasque fails it's saves) so that it gets petrified, but eventually it's going to find a way out (either someone's going to eventually free it, or it's going to regenerate from a skin cell it happened to shed before the petrification, or natural decay is going to break off a piece that would be replaced by regeneration as new cells or what have you).

It's supposed to be an unkillable, inevitable engine of destruction. Defeating the Tarrasque in a fight to the death isn't supposed to be possible, any more than you can defeat a flood or volcano in a fight to the death. "Defeating" the Tarrasque means to put it to sleep and postpone it's rampage.

However, I feel I should note that the 4th ed Tarrasque was actually the creation of the Primordials; not the gods. In fact, it's stated purpose is to destroy the works of the gods.

[marjan]

I see that they also halved his charisma score. Never made sense for tarrasque to have high cha score in the first place.

[EvilElitest]

I've always believed that the Tarrasque is meant to represent the ultimate monster of D&D. Unfortunately, in 3.5ed the Tarrasque had a number of exploitable weaknesses preventing it from fulfilling this purpose. Now, however, several of those weaknesses appear to have been shored up (it's now immune to charm/fear effects, you can't fly over it, and I don't even think there is ability drain any more). To top it all off, the thing is now completely immortal, making it essentially the most dangerous monster for no other reason that the fact that you simply can never truly kill it. It's like Jason Voorhees; you might be able to put it back to sleep, but you will never be able to actually kill it.

The only real weaknesses I can see in it at the moment is that it doesn't have immunity to effects such as Petrification, Immobilization, or Blindness (but don't those give you a save each turn?).

Anyone else have thoughts on the new incarnation of the incarnation of destruction?

i actually like it, 3E Mr. T was just a big monster, this one is the legendary weapon of destruction
from
EE

[Azerian Kelimon]

Here, here! I agree completely. The Tarrasque isn't meant to be a creature that can be destroyed; it's meant to be more like a natural disaster in monster format; the kind of thing that you can't just destroy; only minimize it's damage (by putting it back to sleep).

I mean, sure, you could hypothetically get a whole bunch of Basilisks to fight it and wait for one of them to roll a natural 20 on it's petrifying gaze (while hoping the Tarrasque fails it's saves) so that it gets petrified, but eventually it's going to find a way out (either someone's going to eventually free it, or it's going to regenerate from a skin cell it happened to shed before the petrification, or natural decay is going to break off a piece that would be replaced by regeneration as new cells or what have you).

It's supposed to be an unkillable, inevitable engine of destruction. Defeating the Tarrasque in a fight to the death isn't supposed to be possible, any more than you can defeat a flood or volcano in a fight to the death. "Defeating" the Tarrasque means to put it to sleep and postpone it's rampage.

However, I feel I should note that the 4th ed Tarrasque was actually the creation of the Primordials; not the gods. In fact, it's stated purpose is to destroy the works of the gods.

*One level 30 Demigod Fighter later...*

-Is that all? Pshaw. Tarrasque Schtarrasque, I could take it down without any help!

Truth in television there. The tarrasque is still a crappy secondhand Elite Mook. Just let a demigod (ANY demigod) at it and hand it off to Moradin or Pelor as a little puppy once you're done.

No matter what you might think, throwing it into the far realm kills it anyway. See, if it dies, it won't be able to come back, if it is not permanently slain by being cut off from its base plane. Problem solved.

Let's face it, the tarrasque is just a Big Stupid Fighter, only Stupider and not too scary.

[Jerthanis]

*One level 30 Demigod Fighter later...*

-Is that all? Pshaw. Tarrasque Schtarrasque, I could take it down without any help!

I don't know about that... it's certainly not up to the level of other Solos, but it's got so many HP that I can't imagine it going down to less than a whole onslaught of Dailies and Encounter powers.

I don't see any elite in the book that'd fair better 1v1 than Big T. would 1v1. I do sort of see your point though... pretty much any other Solo is a fight to write home about, while the Tarrasque isn't a matter of luck and strategy, but a matter of time.

[thereaper]

*One level 30 Demigod Fighter later...*

-Is that all? Pshaw. Tarrasque Schtarrasque, I could take it down without any help!

Truth in television there. The tarrasque is still a crappy secondhand Elite Mook. Just let a demigod (ANY demigod) at it and hand it off to Moradin or Pelor as a little puppy once you're done.

No matter what you might think, throwing it into the far realm kills it anyway. See, if it dies, it won't be able to come back, if it is not permanently slain by being cut off from its base plane. Problem solved.

Let's face it, the tarrasque is just a Big Stupid Fighter, only Stupider and not too scary.

According to the lore. The actual entry says nothing of the sort. It says that the Tarrasque sinks back into the world's core at 0 or less HP. There's no "unless the Tarrasque is not in this world" part. In fact, it doesn't even specify that the Tarrasque has to be in this world. Furthermore, the fact that the Tarrasque is moving at 0 or less HP means that it isn't dead at 0 or less HP. And since "0 or less" extends to negative infinity, it means that no amount of damage is able to kill the Tarrasque. So even if the lore was to be considered meaningful in terms of game mechanics (in which case, any Halfling enemy that the PCs fight would have to be friendly towards them while trying to kill them, since the lore regarding them states that they are friendly), it would still fail to tell us how exactly to kill the Tarrasque.

[Collin152]

According to the lore. The actual entry says nothing of the sort. It says that the Tarrasque sinks back into the world's core at 0 or less HP. There's no "unless the Tarrasque is not in this world" part. In fact, it doesn't even specify that the Tarrasque has to be in this world. Furthermore, the fact that the Tarrasque is moving at 0 or less HP means that it isn't dead at 0 or less HP. And since "0 or less" extends to negative infinity, it means that no amount of damage is able to kill the Tarrasque. So even if the lore was to be considered meaningful in terms of game mechanics (in which case, any Halfling enemy that the PCs fight would have to be friendly towards them while trying to kill them, since the lore regarding them states that they are friendly), it would still fail to tell us how exactly to kill the Tarrasque.

If there's no world to sink into, he can't sink into it, can he?

[martyboy74]

The Tarrasque... IN SPACE!

[Callos_DeTerran]

If there's no world to sink into, he can't sink into it, can he?

Not true, it says thats where he GOES, not how he gets there. :smalltongue: Wavering like a mirage then vanishing, plus the subsequent upheaval as the tarrasque displaces whatever it took the place off fits the idea just fine in my book. Also how would the fighter demigod accomplish this? Really, I'm curious.

[Collin152]

Not true, it says thats where he GOES, not how he gets there. :smalltongue: Wavering like a mirage then vanishing, plus the subsequent upheaval as the tarrasque displaces whatever it took the place off fits the idea just fine in my book. Also how would the fighter demigod accomplish this? Really, I'm curious.

Destroy the Earth. Hollow it out.
No center to return to.

[Moff Chumley]

Destroy the Earth. Hollow it out.
No center to return to.

KILL HIM WITH FIRE!

I don't know what sick perversion of GIFT you subscribe to, but good sir, you definitely subscribe to it. :smalltongue:

[Collin152]

KILL HIM WITH FIRE!

I don't know what sick perversion of GIFT you subscribe to, but good sir, you definitely subscribe to it. :smalltongue:

Pardon?
umm..
You are confusing me immensley.