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Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-16, 08:59 PM
Illusions are here! Or at least, some o' 'em. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080616&authentic=true)

Here is the optimizers take on the powers:


Ah, brilliant. Good old WotC releasing their less-balanced stuff in Dragon, so as to keep it out of the actual PHB. *rolls eyes*

Illusory Ambush one of the best at wills. Every wizard is going to grab this over Ray of Cold.

Grasping Shadows is strictly better than force orb, and is just the best level 1 encounter wizard power now, being even more rediculously better than Icy Terrain.

Phantom Chasm is probably better than Sleep.

Phantasmal Terrain is fair.

Maze of Mirrors is a very strong debuff, but that's all it is - it deals no damage. Very annoying for foes, but you deal no damage at all.

Phantasmal Assailant is solid, but not better than anything else of its level. I like this.

Spectral Hound is cute but fair. I like this.

Enemies Abound is about on par with other level 7 encounter powers.

Illusory Wall is again the best power of its level now. It should be an attack power, not a utility power (as it disables foes) and it should also be a daily power, not an encounter power.

So...

5 powers which are the best for their level.
4 which aren't.

Pretty poorly written article.

Basically every wizard will take Illusory Ambush, Grasping Shadows, Phantom Chasm, and Illusory Wall. Many will take most of the others, particularly the powerful level 3 debuff, which is as strong as anything at its level.

SamTheCleric
2008-06-16, 09:06 PM
I beat you by about 13 minutes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83365)... but I didn't have any of that Optimization stuff :smalltongue:

hamishspence
2008-06-17, 06:07 AM
illusary wall doesn't disable anyone. Not being able to pass through the wall: not that different from wall of ice, except, with this wall, strong willed characters can actuallly pass through.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-17, 06:24 AM
illusary wall doesn't disable anyone. Not being able to pass through the wall: not that different from wall of ice, except, with this wall, strong willed characters can actuallly pass through.

RAW says that it does if you trap them. Doesn't have squares to move, doesn't have a chance to disbelieve. Of course, RAI says otherwise.

hamishspence
2008-06-17, 06:34 AM
you would need to really trap them. The rule says Cannot move through the wall on their turn. it says nothing about restricting movement in any other way.

Looping the wall all the way around victim does lead to trapped target. Or does it? Is says: when the victim moves adjacent to the wall, make the attack. what if they start adjacent to the wall?

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-17, 06:42 AM
I'd assume the victim will spend at least one round trapped then, as it'll force you to roll on its turn.

Basically, my idea is this: If you trap them with the wall, they'll spend the time trapped until the beginning/end of your turn. Since it's basically a freebie round for the team if the roll succeeds, I can see Orb wizards opening each encounter with this one.

hamishspence
2008-06-17, 06:51 AM
If you treat starting adjacent but declaring that you will try and move through the wall as equivalent to moving adjacent, its roll begins on its turn, so, worst case scenario from your point of view, it starts its turn with chance of quickly being untrapped.

basically, makes most sense not to try combining rules unfairly: if it cannot ever get out because it cannot "move" adjacent, doesn't make sense. especially if the DM pulls it on you.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-17, 07:05 AM
Of course. What I said was RAW, not the way I'd do it. In my interpretation, at the end of the foe's turn, you roll an attack against his defense, as if he were making a save.

hamishspence
2008-06-17, 07:08 AM
i'd put it at start of enemy turn, as if he had automatically moved into contact with wall at start of each turn.

the spell should be better than Wall of fog, but easier to escape than wall of Ice. Is it?