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View Full Version : So, rereading through the player's handbook today...[3.5]



Killersquid
2008-06-17, 07:22 PM
And it doesn't really state anywhere the cubic space and weight limit of backpacks, water skins, saddlebags, and other containers. I find this a bit odd, it seem kind of strange for a Frenzied Berserker to carry half a ton of gear in his pack when frenzied.

marjan
2008-06-17, 07:32 PM
It also only has maximum carrying capacity listed (no mention of light, medium or heavy load). This I don't think was a mistake, but a feature of 4e. DM who is not bothered by what you carry in your backpack will ignore those rules anyway and DM who likes common sense can apply it easily. So, as the rest of 4e, it is focused on simplicity, whenever it is possible to do so with leaving possibility to implement "common sense" rules easily.

No point in reading this. But if you want to, be my guest. Just don't say I didn't warn you.

Killersquid
2008-06-17, 07:45 PM
It also only has maximum carrying capacity listed (no mention of light, medium or heavy load). This I don't think was a mistake, but a feature of 4e. DM who is not bothered by what you carry in your backpack will ignore those rules anyway and DM who likes common sense can apply it easily. So, as the rest of 4e, it is focused on simplicity, whenever it is possible to do so with leaving possibility to implement "common sense" rules easily.

I was...actually talking about the 3.5 book...but I may just not be looking hard enough. Anyway, my bad on the title inferring it was 4e. I'll go fix it. I'm actually a newbie player to D&D, picked 3.5 as it appealed to me.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-06-17, 07:48 PM
It also only has maximum carrying capacity listed (no mention of light, medium or heavy load). This I don't think was a mistake, but a feature of 4e. DM who is not bothered by what you carry in your backpack will ignore those rules anyway and DM who likes common sense can apply it easily. So, as the rest of 4e, it is focused on simplicity, whenever it is possible to do so with leaving possibility to implement "common sense" rules easily.

All I can say is: A laugh at anyone who jumped to conclusions like this.

Matthew
2008-06-17, 07:51 PM
Consider tagging the thread with [3e], it's only going to get more confusing in the playground if we don't start doing this.

Killersquid
2008-06-17, 07:58 PM
Consider tagging the thread with [3e], it's only going to get more confusing in the playground if we don't start doing this.

Yea, went back and changed the title, feel silly for not doing it in the first place.

marjan
2008-06-17, 07:58 PM
I was...actually talking about the 3.5 book...but I may just not be looking hard enough. Anyway, my bad on the title inferring it was 4e. I'll go fix it. I'm actually a newbie player to D&D, picked 3.5 as it appealed to me.

No, it's my mistake, sorry. Got used to bunch of 4e threads, and was replying to some of them. Basically, answer shouldn't be to difficult to figure it out. Most of the items you'll put in your backpack isn't going to fill all that space anyway, so volume would be hard to determine universally.


All I can say is: A laugh at anyone who jumped to conclusions like this.

Good for you.

Nemoricus
2008-06-17, 08:11 PM
Their capacities aren't listed. I've checked.

Solo
2008-06-17, 08:45 PM
Krog sat down next to Jack and Mileena and began to show him the weapons he was carrying.

"u see, i got da greataxe o' m'father's an' m'greatsword, an' this staff i use fr walkin', with a sharp bit o' metal on the end -"

"Krog, that's a spear," Jack pointed out, as he skinned a rabbit.

"ur, right, and i foud a nice, u kno, whip, dunno what to do with it tho' cauz i keep hittin' meself by axident..."

Mileena frowned as Krog kept pulling out weapons.

"Krog, how can you be carrying all those weapons in your backpack?"

"ah, krog strong!"

"But there's not enough space! you've got half a dozen polearms, two hundred arrows, a longbow.... and god knows what else in your backpack."

"jack keeps lots of things in his! why no complaining 'bout that?"

"Jack has a Handy Haversack. You picked your backpack off an orc we killed last year."

"hm. this never bother krog. why bother you?"

"It just doesn't make sense.... oh forget it, it's not like it'll cause me any problems... I just can't figure out how you're doing it all!"

Jack looked over at the two as he started to boil the rabbit.

"I think it's easier to just accept the fact that Krog never learned enough about the laws of physics to obey them. Remember that time he threw us over the gorge, then while we were debating how to get him across, he threw himself over? It's kinda like that."

Krog shrugged. "krog just good at space management & folding."

"... Krog, not only can you not fold weapons.... I think you just said an ampersand. How is that.... ok, that's it. Timeout. I'm done here. My mind can only accept so many impossible things at a time. I'm going to sleep, wake me up if something attacks us."

Mileena promptly rolled out her sleeping bag and snuggled in.

'why she get so?" Krog asked Jack. "not hard to say &. just need to twist mouth and make a '& ' sound."

"Krog, have some rabbit stew and stop talking."

Fridesgerte
2008-06-17, 09:16 PM
Krog sat down next to Jack and Mileena and began to show him the weapons he was carrying.

"u see, i got da greataxe o' m'father's an' m'greatsword, an' this staff i use fr walkin', with a sharp bit o' metal on the end -"

"Krog, that's a spear," Jack pointed out, as he skinned a rabbit.

"ur, right, and i foud a nice, u kno, whip, dunno what to do with it tho' cauz i keep hittin' meself by axident..."

Mileena frowned as Krog kept pulling out weapons.

"Krog, how can you be carrying all those weapons in your backpack?"

"ah, krog strong!"

"But there's not enough space! you've got half a dozen polearms, two hundred arrows, a longbow.... and god knows what else in your backpack."

"jack keeps lots of things in his! why no complaining 'bout that?"

"Jack has a Handy Haversack. You picked your backpack off an orc we killed last year."

"hm. this never bother krog. why bother you?"

"It just doesn't make sense.... oh forget it, it's not like it'll cause me any problems... I just can't figure out how you're doing it all!"

Jack looked over at the two as he started to boil the rabbit.

"I think it's easier to just accept the fact that Krog never learned enough about the laws of physics to obey them. Remember that time he threw us over the gorge, then while we were debating how to get him across, he threw himself over? It's kinda like that."

Krog shrugged. "krog just good at space management & folding."

"... Krog, not only can you not fold weapons.... I think you just said an ampersand. How is that.... ok, that's it. Timeout. I'm done here. My mind can only accept so many impossible things at a time. I'm going to sleep, wake me up if something attacks us."

Mileena promptly rolled out her sleeping bag and snuggled in.

'why she get so?" Krog asked Jack. "not hard to say &. just need to twist mouth and make a '& ' sound."

"Krog, have some rabbit stew and stop talking."

This almost made me snarf pasta in a diner! If I'm allowed to give you a cookie, you have a cookie. :smallbiggrin:

Matthew
2008-06-17, 10:06 PM
And it doesn't really state anywhere the cubic space and weight limit of backpacks, water skins, saddlebags, and other containers. I find this a bit odd, it seem kind of strange for a Frenzied Berserker to carry half a ton of gear in his pack when frenzied.

You know, I could swear I have seen this listed somewhere. Maybe on the WotC website?

Killersquid
2008-06-18, 01:17 AM
You know, I could swear I have seen this listed somewhere. Maybe on the WotC website?

Found it on the site, thanks Matt. This (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040406a) is the link in case anyone wants to know, just go down to the english units for containers. Bookmarked this, I'm not losing it.

hamishspence
2008-06-18, 05:38 PM
solo's conversation

Sounded very, very OOTS-ish, and I mean that in a good way. Wonder if something like that will come up in the future?

Matthew
2008-06-18, 06:04 PM
Found it on the site, thanks Matt.

No problem. After all, you did all the leg work, I just vaguely recalled something...



This (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040406a) is the link in case anyone wants to know, just go down to the english units for containers. Bookmarked this, I'm not losing it.

Yeah, that is the article I was thinking of. Glad I you found what you were looking for!

Solo
2008-06-18, 08:49 PM
solo's conversation

Sounded very, very OOTS-ish, and I mean that in a good way. Wonder if something like that will come up in the future?

You can look forward to seeing it in Solo's Stupendously Superior Story*



*Eragon, eat your heart out

Ionizer
2008-06-19, 02:21 AM
Also, if anyone wants it on paper, it's on page 110 of the 3.0 Player's Handbook. No idea why they omitted it from the 3.5 PHB...

This brings up another slight problem I had with the 3.0-3.5 conversion. In the Monster Manual, the Dryad got major-ly de-hottie-fied (yay hyphens!). The 3.0 Dryad had a bitchin' "Earth-Child" look about her ("Yeah, baby, hug that tree!"). In 3.5, they made her look all woody... Which made it so I could longer get a woo---you know what, I'm gonna stop right there.

Anyway, while the 3.0-3.5 conversion was mostly an improvement, there are some things that were over-looked.

Roderick_BR
2008-06-19, 07:50 AM
Solo's amuzing story
Dude, you win the thread. You just... win.

Matthew
2008-06-19, 07:55 AM
Anyway, while the 3.0-3.5 conversion was mostly an improvement, there are some things that were over-looked.

There certainly were. The 3.5 encounter rules in the DMG are missing some significant text.

Chronos
2008-06-19, 12:26 PM
This brings up another slight problem I had with the 3.0-3.5 conversion. In the Monster Manual, the Dryad got major-ly de-hottie-fied (yay hyphens!). The 3.0 Dryad had a bitchin' "Earth-Child" look about her ("Yeah, baby, hug that tree!"). In 3.5, they made her look all woody... Which made it so I could longer get a woo---you know what, I'm gonna stop right there.Ah, so I'm not the only one who didn't think the 3.0 dryad would need spell-like abilities to hold a humanoid male captive... The 3.5 nymph is slightly better than the 3.0 one, at least, but the 2nd edition nymph is better than either, so that's not much of an improvement.

Matthew
2008-06-19, 01:04 PM
...but the 2nd edition nymph is better than either, so that's not much of an improvement.

You mean the black and white one in the PHB? Yeah... :smallsmile:

Person_Man
2008-06-19, 01:46 PM
I loath backpack/encumbrance/material component management in any game. In my games, the rule is "Write down what you have, and be reasonable. If you want a 10 foot pole, chalk dust, a silver mirror, ad nauseum, you must buy a bag of holding." Never once has it been an issue.

Frosty
2008-06-19, 02:19 PM
solo's conversation

Sounded very, very OOTS-ish, and I mean that in a good way. Wonder if something like that will come up in the future?

THe last few lines are actually from 8-bit theater.

kamikasei
2008-06-19, 02:31 PM
You mean the black and white one in the PHB? Yeah... :smallsmile:

This nostalgia is worthless without pics!

No seriously I am curious but I don't want to type "sexy old nymph" into Google.

Ionizer
2008-06-19, 03:06 PM
This nostalgia is worthless without pics!

No seriously I am curious but I don't want to type "sexy old nymph" into Google.

Many separate searches (With safesearch on, there are some things I don't need to see...) with those terms and similar, provided several Halloween costumes, a couple 3.5 illustrations and a few hand drawn artworks. None look like 2nd ed. artwork. I'm very curious now.

Matthew
2008-06-19, 03:35 PM
This nostalgia is worthless without pics!

No seriously I am curious but I don't want to type "sexy old nymph" into Google.



Many separate searches (With safesearch on, there are some things I don't need to see...) with those terms and similar, provided several Halloween costumes, a couple 3.5 illustrations and a few hand drawn artworks. None look like 2nd ed. artwork. I'm very curious now.

I had a look in my AD&D 2e PHB (1989), but there was no signature on the picture. The potential candidates are:

Jeff Butler
Douglas Chaffee
Jeff Easley
John & Laura Lakey
Jean E. Martin
Dave Sutherland

The picture I have in mind is on p. 36 and more likely of a Dryad (but since Nymph is a general term that includes Dryad, I wasn't that fussed about nomenclature).

Interestingly, there is actually a tribute to one of the 2e pieces (p. 43) in the 4e DMG (pp. 16-17), of a the warrior woman lying on a plinth with a winged helmet above her head (by Jeff Easley, but not yet on his website).

KIDS
2008-06-19, 04:03 PM
AHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Solo, that was downright awesome, thanks for making me laugh.

As for the rule - if you add a cubic meter or whatever limit to a backpack, then you must do that for all individual items as well. Not only that's a bit more reality than I desire in my games, but also it would be downright maddening to calculate without differential calculators.

Riffington
2008-06-19, 04:11 PM
This nostalgia is worthless without pics!

[/SIZE]

Well, the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide has a picture (p72 if you care) of 2 nymphs and an ogre that, um, reinforces stereotypes wonderfully.

monty
2008-06-19, 04:13 PM
Get a Colossal glaive, or something like that. Only weighs 160 pounds, if I did the calculations right, so a character with decent strength should be able to carry it, but it'll be far too long to fit in a backpack using reasonable physics. (How long is a Colossal reach weapon, anyway?)

Matthew
2008-06-19, 04:30 PM
Well, the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide has a picture (p72 if you care) of 2 nymphs and an ogre that, um, reinforces stereotypes wonderfully.

Another great Easley black and white picture, that one, though I am not sure about them being Nymphs and an Ogre; could be, I suppose...

Chronos
2008-06-19, 06:25 PM
That is one thing I sort of miss about 2nd edition: Generic fantasy pictures inserted randomly into the rulebooks, with no particular relationship to anything near them. Illogical, I suppose, but then, nostalgia usually is. But in any event, I was thinking of the nymph from the Monstrous Compendium, who in hindsight, isn't nearly as sexy as she was when I was a teenager (but still better than either of the 3e ones).


Back to the original topic, the volume limits of most containers in the game are a lot more permissive than the weight limits. You'll almost never need to worry about volume unless you're carrying around balsa wood statues, or something of the like. For things like that (or, for that matter, colossal glaives), you just have to use a little judgment.

Matthew
2008-06-19, 06:46 PM
That is one thing I sort of miss about 2nd edition: Generic fantasy pictures inserted randomly into the rulebooks, with no particular relationship to anything near them. Illogical, I suppose, but then, nostalgia usually is. But in any event, I was thinking of the nymph from the Monstrous Compendium, who in hindsight, isn't nearly as sexy as she was when I was a teenager (but still better than either of the 3e ones).

These gals?

http://www.dotd.com/mm/dryad.gif http://www.dotd.com/mm/nymph.gif http://www.dotd.com/mm/waterkin.gif

Nah, nowhere near the quality of the Dryad in the PHB. It's really annoying that I cannot find the image anywhere...