odd thing about the MOJ

[Lerky]

according to stip #259 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) Roy states "he'll get sicker and sicker until he'll be incapable of hurting anyone" however once the MOJ was activated Belkar showed obvious, instant, pain. I believe that the MOJ is made to give Belkar a type of flu that makes him weaker, not to harm him so he can still adventure when his body re-coops, not to exert physical pain, and Belkar showed aloooot of physical pain. Another thing that I don't get. This seems to be what the Orcale meant when he mentioned Belkars early death, however according to the quote above Belkar should not die.
I'd appreciate explantions and theroies (no matter how crazy they are:smallwink:)

[Leigh]

Well maybe the pain could cause a death...I sure hope not though. Oots wouldn't be the same without Belkar! *sniff* And as for the physical pain, maybe its a ...side effect?:smallconfused: heh...

[sikyon]

according to stip #259 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) Roy states "he'll get sicker and sicker until he'll be incapable of hurting anyone" however once the MOJ was activated Belkar showed obvious, instant, pain. I believe that the MOJ is made to give Belkar a type of flu that makes him weaker, not to harm him so he can still adventure when his body re-coops, not to exert physical pain, and Belkar showed aloooot of physical pain. Another thing that I don't get. This seems to be what the Orcale meant when he mentioned Belkars early death, however according to the quote above Belkar should not die.
I'd appreciate explantions and theroies (no matter how crazy they are:smallwink:)

Probably just an activation pain.

[Corwin Weber]

according to stip #259 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) Roy states "he'll get sicker and sicker until he'll be incapable of hurting anyone" however once the MOJ was activated Belkar showed obvious, instant, pain. I believe that the MOJ is made to give Belkar a type of flu that makes him weaker, not to harm him so he can still adventure when his body re-coops, not to exert physical pain, and Belkar showed aloooot of physical pain. Another thing that I don't get. This seems to be what the Orcale meant when he mentioned Belkars early death, however according to the quote above Belkar should not die.
I'd appreciate explantions and theroies (no matter how crazy they are:smallwink:)

The above quote doesn't take into account a pissed off major deity and a village full of kobolds.......

[Lunaya]

Probably just an activation pain.
That was my impression. I agree with Lerky's assessment of Roy's description. I assumed that the MoJ was going to be like a flu that progressively gets worse. Who knows? We haven't been proven wrong yet.

In addition to #295, Roy also mentions the affects of the Mark on http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0323.html. Page 323, he wonders why he shouldn't just activate the MoJ and leave Belkar "writhing on the ground until another owlbear walks by". Writhing from pain? Check, I guess.

[Lerky]

Page 323, he wonders why he shouldn't just activate the MoJ and leave Belkar "writhing on the ground until another owlbear walks by". Writhing from pain? Check, I guess.

although "writhing on the ground" could mean he's defensless because of the sickness, which would fit the earlier description. However Rich could've changed his view on the MOJ and instead made it a physical rather than posion attack. Wouldn't be the first time he changed something mid-comic.

[The Extinguisher]

although "writhing on the ground" could mean he's defensless because of the sickness, which would fit the earlier description. However Rich could've changed his view on the MOJ and instead made it a physical rather than posion attack. Wouldn't be the first time he changed something mid-comic.

One generally doesn't writhe from the flu

[Lerky]

One generally doesn't writhe from the flu

but its a sickness that should weakens the victim so he won't harm anyone (as stated above)

[Trazoi]

While "he'll get sicker and sicker until he's incapable of hurting anyone" does seem to imply the curse isn't fatal, it doesn't explicitly rule out that the MoJ might kill him directly. A dead Belkar is also incapable of hurting anyone. Well, unless you trip over his corpse or drop him into a town's water supply.

[Lunaya]

The MoJ may not be designed kill him directly. But if Belkar's too ill to defend himself (from kobolds, etc.), it could still very easily be a death sentence.

[Chronos]

Plus, we don't know what all else the Oracle has planned for him. You can prepare a lot of nastiness after your death, when you can see the future and all.

[Alex Warlorn]

Well maybe the pain could cause a death...I sure hope not though. Oots wouldn't be the same without Belkar! *sniff* And as for the physical pain, maybe its a ...side effect?:smallconfused: heh...

This is SOOOO sweet! It's dishonorable to enjoy anyone else's suffering, but it's a relief and I sense a return to the balance of the natural order of the universe by Belkar's bad karma finally catching up to him...

Let's face facts, after killing the Oracle Belkar proved that not only can't he control himself with random NPCs who they meet on the street, he also can't control himself with EVENT NPCs either... he was asking for that one.

For those of you who like having the selfish dangerous PC in the party, don't worry, while Belkar might not technically have a player, since this world is based on the rules of gaming, Belkar's replacement should be rolled up soon enough.

He or she will likely enjoy killing just as much as Belkar, but will have enough self control not to derail the game every five minutes.

[T-O-E]

Maybe it wasn't physical pain? Perhaps he was only shouting out of annoyance for triggering the mark.

[An Enemy Spy]

This is SOOOO sweet! It's dishonorable to enjoy anyone else's suffering, but it's a relief and I sense a return to the balance of the natural order of the universe by Belkar's bad karma finally catching up to him...

Let's face facts, after killing the Oracle Belkar proved that not only can't he control himself with random NPCs who they meet on the street, he also can't control himself with EVENT NPCs either... he was asking for that one.

For those of you who like having the selfish dangerous PC in the party, don't worry, while Belkar might not technically have a player, since this world is based on the rules of gaming, Belkar's replacement should be rolled up soon enough.

He or she will likely enjoy killing just as much as Belkar, but will have enough self control not to derail the game every five minutes.

But I like it when Belkar derails the game.

[Lunaya]

Maybe it wasn't physical pain? Perhaps he was only shouting out of annoyance for triggering the mark.
Possible, but the smoke rising out of the Mark in the last panel suggests (at least to me) that it's burning him.

[cheesecake]

Kobolds are freaking monsters. He should be able to run through that town and kill them all without triggering the MoJ.

[Isolder74]

Possible, but the smoke rising out of the Mark in the last panel suggests (at least to me) that it's burning him.

It could be both. I'd image even a non physical attack would initially hurt fairly bad before you'd get used to the sudden change. You don't generally get the flu instantly you know

[Just Joseph]

according to stip #259 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) Roy states "he'll get sicker and sicker until he'll be incapable of hurting anyone" however once the MOJ was activated Belkar showed obvious, instant, pain. I believe that the MOJ is made to give Belkar a type of flu that makes him weaker, not to harm him so he can still adventure when his body re-coops, not to exert physical pain, and Belkar showed aloooot of physical pain. Another thing that I don't get. This seems to be what the Orcale meant when he mentioned Belkars early death, however according to the quote above Belkar should not die.
I'd appreciate explantions and theroies (no matter how crazy they are:smallwink:)

"Sick" covers a lot of territory - it could refer to any chronic physical condition.

By the evidence (current strip and Roy's various utterances regarding the MOJ's effects), I'd guess Belkar now has a chronic incurable migraine, which will get worse and worse. That'd both incapacitate and punish him, which is what I'd want if I were designing a MOJ for a murderer out on bail.

As for the oracle's prediction of Belkar's death, all we have is a few pictures depicting the activation of the MOJ, not B's death. I think you've jumped to a conclusion on that one.

[Caractacus]

Kobolds are freaking monsters. He should be able to run through that town and kill them all without triggering the MoJ.

If I recall correctly, the curse mentions 'sentient beings'. The Kobold oracle fit the bill perfectly, and so would any one of the village's inhabitants.

Edit:

Actually, it says 'living creature', which widens the field yet further. I think kobolds can be considered to count as living creatures.

[busterswd]

As mentioned, migraines are a type of "sickness" and headaches are a common symptom of many illnesses. It's also possible he's screaming from frustration that he forgot about it, smoke or no. Of course, the most logical reason for him screaming is dramatic effect; the Oracle's well plotted revenge wouldn't have nearly the same effect from him suffering an imperceptible affliction.

[Roderick_BR]

Maybe the pain is part of being sick? As in, he'll start feeling even worse soon?

[TigerHunter]

Y'know, I just realized: what happened to Roy? His ghost was hanging around, but he's mysteriously absent in this strip...

[Jayabalard]

although "writhing on the ground" could mean he's defensless because of the sickness, which would fit the earlier description. However Rich could've changed his view on the MOJ and instead made it a physical rather than posion attack. Wouldn't be the first time he changed something mid-comic.You don't writhe from a disease that just makes you weaker... That would actually make it more difficult to writhe.

[FujinAkari]

Y'know, I just realized: what happened to Roy? His ghost was hanging around, but he's mysteriously absent in this strip...

He went back to Celestia to find out the specifics of how Azure City fell from Miko, now that he knows she's dead.

((No, I don't actually believe this, but it makes sense :P More likely, the Giant is planting that idea in our heads because he likes messing with us, hehe))

[Kato]

Hm... I'd also go for activation pain. Or it's the actual meaning, giving him so much pain, he can't fight anymore or so, thus making him defenseless...
Also it might be only a shriek of agony, with him realizing he's in very deep trouble.

[Ramien]

He went back to Celestia to find out the specifics of how Azure City fell from Miko, now that he knows she's dead.

((No, I don't actually believe this, but it makes sense :P More likely, the Giant is planting that idea in our heads because he likes messing with us, hehe))

I think that's an idea people are planting in their own heads. I doubt Roy would have left just as he thought he was going to find out when/how he would get resurrected.

[R.O.A.]

Just something that occured to me reading this thread:
ROY gave us the definition of the mark's effect that we've all been quoted, but he didn't cast it himself. Therefore, his knowledge of it comes from Shojo or a spellcaster working for Shojo. So...the definition we were given doesn't rule out Belkar'd death once the mark has been activated. Remember, Roy had a word to activate it with, and is a good-aligned character...so what if Shojo phrased his explination to Roy to ignore the fact death is a possibility, knowing that otherwise he would never use the death-trigger-activation-word?

meh, just an idle thought.

[Swashbuckler]

From the SRD (that's System Reference Document for the uninitiated):


Mark of Justice
Necromancy

Level: Clr 5, Pal 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Permanent; see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

You draw an indelible mark on the subject and state some behavior on the part of the subject that will activate the mark. When activated, the mark curses the subject. Typically, you designate some sort of criminal behavior that activates the mark, but you can pick any act you please. The effect of the mark is identical with the effect of bestow curse.

Since this spell takes 10 minutes to cast and involves writing on the target, you can cast it only on a creature that is willing or restrained.

Like the effect of bestow curse, a mark of justice cannot be dispelled, but it can be removed with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, remove curse, or wish spell. Remove curse works only if its caster level is equal to or higher than your mark of justice caster level. These restrictions apply regardless of whether the mark has activated.


Bestow Curse
Necromancy

Level: Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You place a curse on the subject. Choose one of the following three effects.

* -6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1).
* -4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks.
* Each turn, the target has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.

You may also invent your own curse, but it should be no more powerful than those described above.

The curse bestowed by this spell cannot be dispelled, but it can be removed with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, remove curse, or wish spell.

Bestow curse counters remove curse.

Belkar won't be dying any time soon, unless the kobolds decide to mass-gank him while he's in a weakened state.

[Mauve Shirt]

Maybe it wasn't physical pain? Perhaps he was only shouting out of annoyance for triggering the mark.

This was what I came in here to post. :P
And this is definitely not where Belkar dies, we haven't seen any birthday cake yet. :smalltongue:

[Zorn]

To explain away the time gap between the murder and the actual activation of the mark, I theorized that the mark doesn't activate when the crime is committed. Rather, the mark senses the victim's realization that he or she committed the crime and acts from there. It would explain (and I know the real reason was for dramatic effect) why, as what was about to happen dawned on Belkar and not before, the mark began to present itself.

This is all speculation, of course, but I'm wondering if that might affect not just when the mark activates but how the mark activates. In other words, the mark afflicts its victim with whatever symptom he or she imagined. Roy told Belkar that the mark would incapacitate him, that, as people already pointed out, Belkar would be left sick and writhing. Is it possible that the actual effect of the mark has deviated somewhat from Roy's description simply because Belkar envisioned it happening the way it is now?

[Corwin Weber]

Belkar won't be dying any time soon, unless the kobolds decide to mass-gank him while he's in a weakened state.

And what are the odds of this not happening?

...although I'd suspect it would be 'long slow torture' rather than mass-gank.

[afelias]

Can the MOJ indirectly lead to Belkar's death? As in, he could die because he can't defend himself against a powerful monster, but, as a punishment that was given in lieu of imprisonment, there should be a countermeasure that gives Belkar a way to defend himself, which could be the word Roy can use. One, if someone else says the word, is Belkar released? If not, How can they remove the weakness the Mark induces without resurrecting Roy? The only way I can think of is dispelling it, but maybe Roy can say the word while he's dead, which could show Haley and Celia that Roy is there, but only if Roy does it after they leave, which could mean that he might say it before they leave, forgetting the memory charm, and releases Belkar, Which would show to Haley, Belkar, and Celia that Roy is there, but forget that once they leave the valley, preserving their lack of knowledge of Roy watching over them.

[Eric]

Actually, it says 'living creature', which widens the field yet further. I think kobolds can be considered to count as living creatures.

No after they've been stabbed.

Evil Lawyer to the rescue!!!
:smallbiggrin:

[David Argall]

...although I'd suspect it would be 'long slow torture' rather than mass-gank.
Belkar is almost certain to survive this little problem, altho it will definitely feel like a long slow torture to him.



Can the MOJ indirectly lead to Belkar's death?
Yes. Just about anything can.
Our writer follows the 3.5 rules, but only to the extent he feels like it. He does not let the rules get in the way of the storyline or a joke. We have yet to see how closely he will be following the official Mark of Justice rules, but there is a very good chance he will not be following them directly. In particular, the story Mark will likely be much more dibilitating than the book Mark. But there is almost certainly no automatic negation of the MOJ by Roy or Haley.

[Gamerlord]

I belive that the MOJ is causing belkars body to heat up to supernatural tempertures incinerating him.

[Sir_Elderberry]

Well, I'm looking at this as a "what would I do" sort of thing. If I were crafting a punishment, I'd make sure whoever was hti with it would be immediately incapacitated--hence the pain. Then, the debilitating sickness could come as the pain fades and the subject is still incapacitated.

[SoD]

I'd say that it wasn't pain, more of a ''OhmygodohmygodmygodwhathaveIdone?!'' type of thing.

[Lupy]

I suspect that the MoJ hurt him because he had the effects of a disease descending on him in about 10 seconds. Then he screamed when he realized what had happened.

[Khanderas]

I'd say that it wasn't pain, more of a ''OhmygodohmygodmygodwhathaveIdone?!'' type of thing.
Not so much what have I done
must more Belkar'y is to think "I will desecrate his corpse and kill everything he ever held dear for what he did to me" (Belkars own fault yes, but that is never how he percieves it.)